no experience with Vision

[Old Man Zzzz]

OK, I'm the new guy and no experience with Vision.

So been trying to get the motor running, drained gas tank, pulled an replaced plugs, sprayed some ether in the cylinders, and it would fire up. Put everything back and tried normal start, nothing. So couple of questions,
Any known issues with the carburetors,? And does this YICS thing have a major play in starting.
I've read some of the forum on repairing, so taking it that part is not available anymore.

Also read the warning about the brake frame bolts, could someone point out maybe part nr for me, so I can identify them and check mine out....

Thanks

[QBS]

What is the history on the carbs?  When were they last cleaned? 

[Old Man Zzzz]

The bike has been sitting at least 6yrs that I know of. I pulled air cleaner and looked at the throats... Looked clean, not junked up. Like I said I fired some ether down the throats and the motor fired.... So initial guess is the carburetors aren't pulling gas from the tank...

[QBS]

Open carb drain screws.  Turn petcock to PRI position.  Look for gas falling on ground.  No gas on ground means that either your tank is empty or fuel flow is blocked upstream from the carbs.  The petcock gravity feeds in PRI position.

[fret not]

If there is fuel in the tank and it doesn't flow on PRI  either there isn't enough fuel or there is a blockage. 

Also could be damaged diaphragm(s) in the fuel system.  There is one in the petcock, in the fuel pump, and one in the fuel regulator.

This is all pretty basic stuff but years of sitting can accumulate 'material' in inconvenient places.  Is the inside of the tank rusty?

[Humber]

Don't get rid of the yics, rather make it work.. it improves the performance. I once did it and the bike wasn't itself any more!

[Rikugun]

So been trying to get the motor running, drained gas tank, pulled an replaced plugs, sprayed some ether in the cylinders, and it would fire up. Put everything back and tried normal start, nothing.

Typically after a 6 year nap Visions require more to awaken them. I'd say at the very least you're looking at a very thorough carb cleaning. At the other end of the spectrum and depending on how many systems need work, a major project lay ahead.

Any known issues with the carburetors,?

Yes, Visions are notorious for the carbs and not in a good way.  :(

And does this YICS thing have a major play in starting.

Only if it leaks which I'd imagine most do until repaired. With respect to Humber's post I'd agree not to toss it just yet but you have potentially many issues to address before that. I'd recommend removal and plugging the intake ports for now. Once you get the entire fuel system up to snuff, then consider the YICS repair. In the meanwhile, the bike will run OK without it.

Also read the warning about the brake frame bolts, could someone point out maybe part nr for me, so I can identify them and check mine out....

The rear brake arm has a bolt at either end that are prone to failure for a variety of reasons. The tubular steel stay attaches to the brake backing plate (as in the pic) and the other end to the underside of the swingarm. No need for a part number as replacement with a better hardware is recommended.

[Old Man Zzzz]

Guys this has all been helpful information, and I appreciate the help. I didn't know about the drains, that will answer the quest if gas is getting to carburetors. The tank drains thru the petcock in PRI ok.
This is much like a restoration project, Body, chrome excellent, but mechanicals, because of the long storage, I will be going thru it and flush the fluids, check rubber caps and hoses.... One of the other posts here gave a pretty detailed walk thru... which I will use as a guide. So till that's done, it won't be ridden. Guess after 30 years, what's a couple of months.

I will try to document my progress and post if there's any interest.

[Old Man Zzzz]

Also read the warning about the brake frame bolts, could someone point out maybe part nr for me, so I can identify them and check mine out....

The rear brake arm has a bolt at either end that are prone to failure for a variety of reasons. The tubular steel stay attaches to the brake backing plate (as in the pic) and the other end to the underside of the swingarm. No need for a part number as replacement with a better hardware is recommended.
[/quote]

I was going to trace part nr to a picture, the bolt with the pin is what needs to be change? Did you go to a metric stainless steel? Did you find one with a hole pre-drilled

[The Prophet of Doom]

You should not use stainless for such applications as it has a horrible habit of shattering under shear stress.
They are a difficult shape to find.  Get genuine Yamaha replacements - available from the dealer, and not too pricey - I think mine were about $8 each

[Old Man Zzzz]

10-4

[fret not]

I suspect the main problem with those bolts breaking is from misuse.  I mean they were not properly installed and the smaller section with the threads was stressed.  The design is safe enough if you understand it, and put it together properly, oh, and keep salt away from the threads.  The bolts have a rather thick 'shoulder' section that should take all the stress, and a smaller section that is threaded to accept the nut and washer to hold it in place.  The only stress the threaded section should be exposed to is the light torque from the nut that keeps the bolt from slipping through the holes in the swing arm, or the backing plate.   The stay rod should fit over the shoulder and not be in contact with the threaded section. 

It's all too easy to put the bolt in the bracket under the swing arm (where you can't see what you are doing) and get the nut on but with the stay rod not in proper position (sitting on the threaded section and pushed against the step of the shoulder section).  I know this can happen because I have done it.

[Rikugun]

The OEM bolt is shouldered at 10mm where it goes through the backing plate and brake stay then steps down to 8mm at the threads. I suspect when over-torqued the bolts may fail at that step. There should be no shear forces there but is under tension. I was a little surprised POD suggested using the OEM bolts but I suppose if properly torqued they may work OK. The diminutive thread diameter and inherent stress riser where they meet the shoulder is of some concern to me.

The OEM bolt does not come drilled for any safety devices but rather uses a nut and lock washer. Many advocate replacing the combo with a 3/8" grade 8 bolt and nyloc nut. This is probably better than the OEM setup but is a little loose in the brake stay and backing plate mount holes. The hex head does however nest well in the backing plate to keep it from spinning when the nut is tightened. The locking nut also provides (IMO) more security than a lock washer.

Mine pictured above is a Kawasaki 10mm shouldered bolt, low profile metal-tab lock nut and safety clip used on their brake stays. Unfortunately, I don't recall the exact model(s) it was used on but was fairy typical. The length of the shoulder and threads may vary slightly by model.

[The Prophet of Doom]

I was a little surprised POD suggested using the OEM bolts

I recommend the OEM because otherwise people will go off to Hardware-R-Us and buy any piece of junk that the spotty 16 year old will sell them.   Yes, there are shear stresses - every time you stomp on the brake pedal, so low grade steel or stainless bolts are unsuitable, as are any bolts where the braking load is put on to a thread.

Nylocs are good, but the OEM on the 16R model is drilled for an R clip/split pin which is a safer arrangement still.  Or use both if you like, and some loctite.

[Old Man Zzzz]

I'm a sponge  ;D sucking this stuff up. I get 2days a week to work on the bike, since I do long haul dedicated driving.

As they say "Good stuff Maynard" So goal this week will be to get the engine to fire and run.....
This bolt issue baffles me, did Yamaha come out with a Tech note on replacing these?  Or riders hard luck experience.
Question whether the OEM bolts meet the spec for high stress... or they had a bad lot of bolts....

[The Prophet of Doom]

There are a couple of hard luck stories. No tech bulletins that I know of, and it's a very common braking arrangement over many manufacturers. 

My opinion is that the whole brake bolt saga is a bit overdramatised, but I guess I'd be changing my mind if I was sitting in a hospital bed for the want of an $8 bolt.  If they are rusty I'd replace them for sure.

[fret not]

This type of shouldered bolt is common to most Japanese motorcycles with drum brakes.  They have been out there in the World for many years and most of them do just fine.  Just make sure they are installed correctly and live in peace.

[Rikugun]

Yup, very common attachment method. And it may be exaggerated but is a potential but significant safety consideration. Several members have reported incidents with some providing pics of the damage.

I never said there wasn't shear on the shoulder - there is, the shoulder is sized accordingly, and IIRC, that's not where the failure occurs. If there's evidence to the contrary I'm open to being schooled.

There seems to be an assumption the OEM fastener is a hardened grade but I don't recall seeing marks on the head. Admittedly it's been some time since I've seen one. I'm not even sure it needs to be since IIRC the failure isn't at the shoulder. Any thoughts on that? If Tiger has his ears on he'll be all over me for this one...   :)

Thanks for the correction on 16R's having drilled threads for safety clips. I don't recall either of my 82's having that but again, those bolts are long gone as are the memories.  :(  If your bolts don't have that feature I'd take POD's Loctite advice as it takes very little time, cost and may make all the difference.

I'd also suggest not trusting your "feel" when torqueing critical fasteners including the smaller OEM 8mm fastener in question. Find the value and use a torque wrench. Also, if you take it to a shop for any work involving rear wheel removal, be aware they almost universally use impact tools to make flat rate. Not all technicians use the gun's trigger judiciously.

[The Prophet of Doom]

that's not where the failure occurs. If there's evidence to the contrary I'm open to being schooled.

No evidence I know of, but I'd be surprised if they just snapped in half.   Metal will always break more readily where there is a surface change - like a thread - even if that's not the exact spot where the forces are.

There seems to be an assumption the OEM fastener is a hardened grade but I don't recall seeing marks on the head.

I forgot in the USA grade means hardening.  That's an imperial thing.  When I said low grade - I actually meant low quality.  When we want hardened bolts we say hardened. 
The OEM bolts do not look hardened to me.

I'd also suggest not trusting your "feel" when torqueing critical fasteners including the smaller OEM 8mm fastener in question.

Good suggestion - they really do damage easily

[Single Carb Vision]

Zzz, don't know if you know or were told that the petcock has it own screen filter inside of the tank.