Where to begin with my un-winterized Vision?

[KyleMCMXC]

So, if you want the whole story you can read my long tale here: http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=15252.msg139741#msg139741

Basically, I need to determine if my starter is dead/has sucked oil in or what and I need to get new tires on my bike.  After that, I think it will be fairly rideable.  The problem is, it's sat out in the cold all winter and I never did anything to winterize it because it wasn't running.  The last time it ran was probably early last July.  I'm wondering where I should begin with working on it.  I'm thinking I should drain my oil and pull the starter to see if that's actually sucking oil like I suspect.  What should I do about that gas that's been sitting untreated in the tank all winter?  The carbs were freshly cleaned last time it ran - should I expect those to be screwed up now too?

[QBS]

Read your referenced epistle.  Your starter can be repaired by you for approx.  $40.00usd and 3 hours labor max.  Your mech. should have done this from the git go.  Blow to starter rendering it functional is the big hint.  Get a Haynes manual and study.  Read what's available on this forum about starter rebuilding.

Once you get finished with all of the above, check in with us and lets us know where you stand.

[The Prophet of Doom]

Toss your old fuel.  It's only good for 3 months.  Less if it's an ethanol blend.   Make sure you get rid of any condensation water.

[KyleMCMXC]

Get a Haynes manual and study.  Read what's available on this forum about starter rebuilding.

Once you get finished with all of the above, check in with us and lets us know where you stand.

I have the Haynes manual - gotta start reading.  Any particular writeup that you'd recommend for rebuilding the starter?

[Rikugun]

Not sure where this came from but it's not my work. Anyone wish to add, clarify, etc. anything?

Rebuilding the starter
Before removing your starter, drain the oil from the bike. This is a good time to change the oil & filter if needed so remember to pick up a filter.
--Disconnect the negative battery bolt & cable
--Unbolt the positive lead from the starter, unbolt the starter from the case.
--Remove the 2 long bolts holding the starter together. Disassemble the starter, noting how everything fits together. Make a sketch or take polaroid pics to help you remember where everything goes when you put it back together, if needed.
--Also note the position of the thrust washers on the ends of the armature.
--Note the alignment marks on the center casing and end plates for reassembly.
--Assuming you plan to replace the seal, grab the metal lip with a pair of pliers and pull it out, or, place a flat blade screwdriver under the lip and pry it out.
--Clean all oil soaked parts well. I prefer to use spray type brake cleaner available at any auto parts store.
--To do this job properly you should find a reputable electric motor repair shop to turn the commutator, (the copper part the brushes ride on), Undercut the mica, (the white substance between the commutator strips) and balance the armature. they probably will be able to hook you up with replacement brushes and springs if needed.
--Remove the spring clip and working from the "sealed" side of the bearing, gently tap the bearing out of the casing with a long thin drift or punch and a hammer. be sure to tap on the OUTSIDE of the bearing. This will take a little patience, so take your time. If you use care, this bearing, if not worn out, can be reused.
--Install the new bearing by placing a socket SLIGHTLY smaller than the outer diameter of the bearing shell over the bearing and tap into place.
--Install the spring clip and the new seal in the same manner as the bearing.
--Before reassembling the starter, I would recommend drilling a small 1/16 hole on the underside of the starter casing on the seal end so that in the unlikely event hat the new seal should ever fail, any oil getting into the starter will tend to drip out the hole. This serves two purposes: 1) this will act as an indicator that there is a problem with the seal, and 2) hopefully allow the oil a path out of the starter before it reaches the brushes on the other end.
--Put the starter back together and install it on the bike, change the filter and add fresh oil. Your hard work will be rewarded with a starter that hopefully will be trouble free for the life of the bike.

[QBS]

Pay very careful attention to planetary gear alignment during reassembly.  Being only one tooth off will damage the planetary gear case if undetected.  For me personally, I would try to save $ and get by with just cleaning out the armature strips/brakes with a very gently applied fine cut hack saw blade and just replace the brushes in the brush plate.  I've done this on three different brush replacements with long lived success....Also, grease the inside of the area the engine case that the starter motor slides into.  The fit between the large diameter starter motor "O" ring seal and the engine case is quite snug.  Greasing the engine case really helps the "O" ring seal slide in and arrive undamaged.

[QBS]

One more thing...put a small dab of grease inside the armature bushing for very long bearing life.

[Bill]

I rebuilt my starter after it filled with oil.  All the steps described in this thread are helpful except any step that requires hitting something with a hammer.  Take part to machine shop and have part pressed on or off.  The machine shop where I go doesn't even charge me.  I just give the guy ten bucks and tell him the beers on me.  He's happy and I'm not depressed because I've ruined something else with a big hammer.  A lesson I have learned more than once in my life.

[pullshocks]

Oops, posted in wrong thread

[KyleMCMXC]

Pay very careful attention to planetary gear alignment during reassembly.  Being only one tooth off will damage the planetary gear case if undetected.  For me personally, I would try to save $ and get by with just cleaning out the armature strips/brakes with a very gently applied fine cut hack saw blade and just replace the brushes in the brush plate.  I've done this on three different brush replacements with long lived success....Also, grease the inside of the area the engine case that the starter motor slides into.  The fit between the large diameter starter motor "O" ring seal and the engine case is quite snug.  Greasing the engine case really helps the "O" ring seal slide in and arrive undamaged.

How am I supposed to know which teeth to line up the planetary gears by?  I pulled it all apart and cleaned it this morning and then pieced it back together so I don't lose anything while I wait for the rebuild kit I ordered.  I hope I didn't screw this up already.  And are the armature strips you talk about the grooves in the commutator?  It seems like the brushes have sort of worn a path from it spinning around between them.  Does that mean that part is no longer good?

[QBS]

Assemble the planetary gears so that the armature spins with the least amount of resistance.  If it is two teeth off the armature will turn, but with significant resistance.  One tooth off will spin quite a bit easier, but still not be right.  The resistance between between one and two teeth can subtle.  Assemble and turn to check for least resistance.  Start with the planetary bearing stub centers directly across from each other with a straight line passing through them and the sun gear center.  Even being off one tooth can be visually difficult to detect.  Shoot for max free spinning.  Be aware that the brushes rubbing the armature add their own resistance which is normal.

Yes.  I have never had my armature turned down.  Just replaced the brushes and went for it.  I'm aware that having the armature turned is the recommended proper procedure.  Not doing so has never rendered unsatisfactory motor operation for me.

[KyleMCMXC]

Assemble the planetary gears so that the armature spins with the least amount of resistance.  If it is two teeth off the armature will turn, but with significant resistance.  One tooth off will spin quite a bit easier, but still not be right.

Ok, it sounds like I'll have to experiment a little.  Not surprisingly, I felt like turning the output was harder than I expected once I re-assembled it.

Yes.  I have never had my armature turned down.  Just replaced the brushes and went for it.  I'm aware that having the armature turned is the recommended proper procedure.  Not doing so has never rendered unsatisfactory motor operation for me.

Ok, so hopefully mine will still work ok.  At this point I need to pop the output out of the nosecone and replace the seal that failed. I also found that the outermost o-ring that came with the rebuild kit is too large.  I'm going to see if I can find one of the proper size somewhere near me.