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Ignitech TCI-P4

Started by The Prophet of Doom, June 04, 2015, 07:16:47 AM

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The Prophet of Doom

The Ignitech TCI out of Czechoslovakia has been used by many - especially the Germans it seems.  Has anyone used their programmable version the Ignitech TCI-P4.  It looks promising with programmable maps and TPS support.  I don't want a repeat of the hassles I had with the XZ400


Also has anyone used Nology coils on their bike?

jefferson

I have nology coils on the racebike. They were fairly easy to mount and there were no problems with them. I ran total loss on the bike which means I wasn't getting the higher voltage in the system, but I got better performance with the weight loss and less drag on the engine. I can't say I noticed any improvement, but there was no downside. I would think you would be able to see if there was some improvement in some aspect of performance on a street ridden machine.

The Prophet of Doom

#2
The TCI-P4 v88 software does not come with a pre-set for the XZ550.  Following emails to Czechoslovakia I have obtained wiring instructions and a configuration file for the XZ550.


This provides a full 3D ignition map using a Throttle Position Sensor for additional input.


Ignition Map
     RPM_ADV      1500  2000  3000  4000  5000  6000  7000  8000  9000 10000
ADVANCE        10    13    16    25    28    32    33    33    33    33
                      10    16    22    31    33    35    35    35    35    35
                      10    24    35    44    45    45    43    41    41    41
                      10    19    32    39    45    47    46    43    43    43
                      10    12    15    25    31    33    32    32    32    31
                      10    12    16    25    28    30    33    32    32    32
                      10    12    16    25    28    30    33    31    33    31
                      10    12    15    25    28    30    32    32    32    32
                      10    12    15    25    28    30    32    32    32    32
                      10    12    25    32    35    35    35    35    35    35

Compare this to Stock
9-11o  @ 1,100 RPM
12o  @ 1,900 RPM
36o  @ 3,100 RPM
36-40o  @ 4,000 RPM (Max advance)





wire color
TCIP4
pin no.
TCIP4
wire color
motorbike
name
description
orange
1
orange
IC 1
ignition coil 1
yellow/black
2
-

IC 3
ignition coil 3
violet
3
-

POWEROUT 1
multifunctional output 1
green
4
-

M
output for servomotor
green
5
-

M
output for servomotor
grey
6
-

TPS (IAPS)
throttle position sensor
blue
7
red
GND, SENSE GND
ground, ground for sensors
black
8
-

INPUT1
multifunctional input 1
yellow
9
red (4pin connector)
CKPS (1)
input for pick-up (1)
white
10
grey
IC 2
ignition coil 2
red/black
11
-

IC 4
ignition coil 4
blue/white
12
-

POWEROUT 2
multifunctional output 2
red
13
red/white
+ 12 V
supply 12 V
blue
14
black
GND
ground
green/yellow
15
-

TACHO
output for tachometer light
blue
16
bleck (4pin connector)
SENSE GND
ground for sensors
white/red
17
-

+ 5 V
supply for sensors
white/blue
18
-

STPS
servo position sensor
grey/red
19
black/white
INPUT2
multifunctional input 2
brown
20
white (4pin connector)
CKPS (2)
input for pick-up (2)

fret not

#3
POD, is this a generic chart?  I see 4 ignition coils shown.  By the way, Ignitech has coils to match their ignitions.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

The Prophet of Doom

#4
Quote from: fret nut on June 09, 2015, 03:21:10 AM
POD, is this a generic chart?  I see 4 ignition coils shown.  By the way, Ignitech has coils to match their ignitions.
This is XZ specific chart, but there is only one version of the TCIp4 - so there are empty slots used for Coil 3 & 4 etc on other bikes.  For clarity I'll fix up the chart a bit.


Thanks, I saw the coils they sell, but I've chosen the Nology (Ignitech version) largely because that's what they used in the tuning guide I have and it reduces one variable, and also because I have no way of telling what is a good coil and what isn't. They are all much the same pricewise.

ArrrGeee

Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on June 04, 2015, 07:16:47 AM
The Ignitech TCI out of Czechoslovakia has been used by many - especially the Germans it seems.  Has anyone used their programmable version the Ignitech TCI-P4.  It looks promising with programmable maps and TPS support.  I don't want a repeat of the hassles I had with the XZ400


Also has anyone used Nology coils on their bike?


right but from what I see they also sell a preprogrammed model with stock settings, I'm thinking of getting one but will probably go that route mostly because I figure yamaha engineers had a pretty good idea what they were doing and
likely got that reasonable enough not to burn a hole in a piston etc.
if I was going to try and race the thing, that would probably be a different story. 

I like the idea of someone building a reliable ignition replacement, I wish it was with cdi but that's another story.

I'd be curious to know how you make out with it and what you choose for a timing advance curve.


fret not

Ignitech offers CDI if you think it would be a better way to go.   Probably it would be a good idea to converse with the folks at Ignitech regarding the choices and possibilities.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

dingleberry

#7
I'd be curious to know how you make out with it and what you choose for a timing advance curve.
[/quote]

POD, I'll make a dyno, you write the software and then we'll get that advance curve just right.
You like, oui?

The Prophet of Doom


I didn't know enough about the difference to make a valid choice between TCI and CDI. TCI seemed easier

The non programmable unit is programmed before despatch, so you are stuck with their curves (and there's no easy way to know what they are - not necessarily Yamaha stock) so you may not be able to re-use the unit in different bike.  There's only $20 price difference so I thought a no-brainer. 

Unless you retrofit either a TPS or a MAP sensor you just press the 2D button in the config software. Programming the stock Yamaha curve is easy as pie - that's what I'm planning to do initially.  Progressing to their 3D map in stages.


I'll update as I progress - if the bloody thing ever turns up!



The Prophet of Doom

Quote from: dingleberry on June 17, 2015, 02:37:31 AM
I'd be curious to know how you make out with it and what you choose for a timing advance curve.

POD, I'll make a dyno, you write the software and then we'll get that advance curve just right.

It's a deal.  I can also contribute a 4 gas EGA, some data acquisition devices and vacuum sensors to the project.
Alternatively PocketDyno software runs on a phone and graphs acceleration just having it in your pocket (but without RPM). 

ArrrGeee

#10
Quote from: fret nut on June 17, 2015, 02:33:46 AM
Ignitech offers CDI if you think it would be a better way to go.   Probably it would be a good idea to converse with the folks at Ignitech regarding the choices and possibilities.

Fret,
while I do think it is a big enough difference to matter, it requires different crank sensors and coils at the very minimum.
I believe the original tci is adequate for this application and I have enough other things to get into without doing
a bunch of fab work.  perfect case for "pick your battles"    ;)




ArrrGeee

#11
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on June 17, 2015, 06:17:07 AM

The non programmable unit is programmed before despatch, so you are stuck with their curves (and there's no easy way to know what they are - not necessarily Yamaha stock) so you may not be able to re-use the unit in different bike.  There's only $20 price difference so I thought a no-brainer. 

are you sure about that, my correspondance with them indicated that it will be set using the stock timing curve per yamaha specs.   for me that is fine.  I have a couple of spare tci units, but given everything else, reliability is numero uno for me.
I'm not ready to dump the vision for a harley yet lol...

The Prophet of Doom



I have to agree about the reliability, that's why i bit the bullet and ordered one - I have a small graveyard of shagged TCIs including one that sparked, but didn't advance - even a pro tuner took about a month to figure that one out.  Even my "good" one delivers a pretty weak looking spark.


I don't know what specs they program the Sparker with, but you can see that the XZ550 curve they gave me for the TCI-P4 is far from stock.  My point was that with the TCI-P4 you get to make choices (including stock) and with the fixed one you don't.  If I trash the XZ550 I can move the TCI to a new bike just by reprogramming so that's worth another 10%.


pullshocks

Very interested in the outcome of this.  I thought about ordering an Ignitech unit several time.

The Prophet of Doom

Started fiddling with the Ignitech TCI-P4 today.


Thought you'd be interested in some screenshots from the configuration program - shows the huge number of options that are available.  This is going to be a bit of a learning curve.

Walt_M.

Glad to see you making a start on this. While I was looking at your screen shots I saw a rev limit setting. Can we assume it is internal to the ignition box and does not rely on the failure prone tachometer output? That would be a good thing.
Whale oil beef hooked!

The Prophet of Doom

Quote from: Walt_M. on January 14, 2017, 12:31:18 PM
Can we assume it is internal to the ignition box and does not rely on the failure prone tachometer output? That would be a good thing.
Yes, there's no tach input so a reasonable assumption.


I always wondered why the Vision TCI was done this way since the TCI is producing the sparks, you would think it could count them rather than doing a round trip through the tach. All I can think is that it's a generic circuitry.  On the vision with wasted spark 1 spark = 0.5 rpm on another bike (with cam sensors for instance) it could be 1 spark = 1 rpm and the rpm limiter would be wrong.




QBS

I'm not sure the TCI box produces our sparks, but rather controls their production.  The way I have understood the system to work is that basically the TCI box replaces the points in a conventional points spark coil system.  Our pick up sensors tell the TCI box when to make and break the electron flow to the spark coils, which produce high voltage output when the flow stops and their electromagnet fields collapse.

IMHO the Transister Controlled Ignition system is a huge improvement over points and coil systems in that it eliminates their points which are, or can be, a source of considerable maintenance.