What does this knock sound like to you?

Started by akvision95, June 27, 2015, 04:48:09 PM

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akvision95

Hey guys,

This is my first post on the forum. I recently bought an 82 Vision up in Alaska. It was knocking, and I found this forum and the starter clutch/balancer nut fix that made it sound like I could get the bike running good again pretty easily. I bought it, took it home, and when I took apart the left side crankcase both the clutch bolts and the balancer nut were loose. I got new bolts for the starter clutch and tightened the balancer nut with a crescent wrench as much as I could, but didn't have a socket so I wasn't able to torque it to spec. When I put it back together and started it up, it still sounds like this:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6iquuu8wnvlcnxx/VID_20150624_212917770.mp4?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/172bkbui9x11gpr/VID_20150626_183653979.mp4?dl=0

So I'm not sure what to do going forward. The oil light turns on when the engine is off but once on it turns off. The rattling/knocking gets worse with louder revs and in general the engine just doesn't sound good, but it starts up pretty easily if I give it enough gas. Could the balancer nut still be too loose, or is it likely another problem (e.g. rod knock) that would make repairing this bike for a first time mechanic really difficult?

dingleberry

Hard to tell from a video. Try putting a screw driver handle to your ear with the blade end on the cases to determine better where the noise is coming from. Unless you have a stethoscope, then use that instead. Sounds like big end to me but hopefully not.
You like, oui?

QBS

Do not run the bike anymore until its' problems have been fixed.  The sounds are bad, the worst I've heard.  It sounds as if serious damage is underway.  Double check your starter clutch reattachment.  Look for bits of metal in the oil filter.  Report back with your findings.

akvision95

There was a bunch of metal shavings in the oil filter the last time I changed it (at the time of the starter clutch bolt replacement)... It was gold and it was coating the entire filter.  So basically, engine swap or scrap the bike?

fret not

Metal shavings = BAD!  but maybe not terminal.  The fact that the oil light goes out when the engine is running is a GOOD sign that the rod bearings and mains are not totally trashed.  At this point you need to thoroughly clean the interior of the motor of all metallic shavings.  A magnetic drain plug like comes on the rear hub is a good idea, but seriously, you need to flush the engine before you run it again, and maybe after.

About your knocking noise, there must still be something loose.  Did you peen the new bolts for the starter clutch?  I think it is worth the effort to remove the stator cover again and inspect the new bolts and anything else you can find.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

akvision95

I didn't peen the starter clutch bolts because I was only planning on riding it for the next month or so. Also when I got finished with all my repairs including the oil filter change, I noticed there was a small, smooth metal cylinder, probably about 2 mm diameter and 12 mm long that had appeared on my floor. Possibly some sort of bearing? But I have no idea where it would go or how it got out of the engine. But you think it's possible that I didn't tighten the nut enough? I didn't have a socket for my torque wrench as I said before, but I thought I got it pretty tight. Could the undertightening still cause all those noises? I don't believe it could be the starter clutch bolts because the noise doesn't go away at higher rpms.

What would flushing the engine involve? I want to be hopeful about getting this bike running again but I also don't want to drop much more money into it if it's unlikely that I can fix it.

The Prophet of Doom

Does it look like these? they are out of the starter clutch - and you need all 3 of them to work properly.

akvision95

Nah I have all my starter clutch parts. It looks a lot like one of the spring caps except it's solid, not hollow. But it's about the same size.  Could be from the ratcheting socket wrench I  broke trying to get the flywheel off? Other than that I'm stumped as to where it came from.

fret not

Does your oil light go out at idle?  Or does it take more RPM to get it to go out?
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

akvision95

Yeah it goes out right when I turn on the bike. My oil heat gauge doesn't work, does that have any effect on the operation of the light? Do you think I might still be dealing with an under tightened balancer but?

fret not

Seems to me that if you got the nut on the balnacer pretty tight it should not ba making noise.  However, that nut tightens against the plate and buffer (cushion) in the balancer gear.  If that buffer is chewed up or missing you would have a heck of a racket coming from that area, and metal 'shavings'.

Look up a parts fiche on the net and check out the order the parts fit together.  http://www.motosport.com/dirtbike/oem-parts/yamaha/1982/xz550/balancer
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

dingleberry

how did you get on with the screwdriver "stethoscope" trick? this will pinpoint quite well where noise is coming from. oh well...
You like, oui?

The Prophet of Doom

Personally I would shell out the $10 to get a stethoscope.   They are ever so much better than a long screwdriver.

akvision95

Hmm I'll open it up and take a look at it tonight again. I have a stethoscope around the house somewhere, but based on previous posters advice about not running the bike I'm not sure about how I'm supposed to locate the source of the noise without running it. To make matters more complicated it isn't starting right now anyways so... I'll try to take apart the balancer assembly and make sure everything is in order, considering both the balancer drive nut and the starter clutch bolts were loose maybe it did tear up that buffer (though I didn't notice anything that looked out of the ordinary when I was tightening the bolt).  To be fair, maybe I was looking in the wrong place, because based on that diagram the balancer driven assembly could be the problem? I was looking more at the balancer drive assembly because the nut was tight on the driven one.

Thanks so much for all your guys' help so far, sorry for being such a noob.

The Prophet of Doom

Check the crankshaft nut while you are in there.

Tiger

Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

dingleberry

What happened to OregenVisionary? Seems like a cool guy
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akvision95

I actually used that thread for the repairs I did because I read it and was hoping it would fix my problems. I followed all the instructions except for the torque rating on the 46mm nut because I didn't have a socket to make sure it was tight enough. Anyways the noise my bike was making after those repairs was a lot worse than 'an annoying rattle' so I was hoping there might be some other tips...  Though both the starter clutch bolts and the crankshaft bolt were loose like I said, tightening them did nothing to solve the problem.

I just want my motorcycle to work :(

fret not

A few things that can cause a noisy engine:  1. loose cam chain adjuster(s),  2. loose valve clearances,  3. loose clutch basket ( missing 'rubber' cushions between the basket and gear),  4. excessively worn engine parts.

I suggest to check the easiest and most obvious things first.

Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

dingleberry

I would be seriously looking for the things that make "gold shavings" on your filter. Rod bearings, cam bearings? Thrust bearings? I don't know what the vision engine has where. How thick is the oil? Is it possible the previous owner put some heavy goop in to try quiet it down before sale which may help show ok oil pressure too?
You like, oui?