Blake's build thread

[jefferson]

The best result would be with the pods insides an airbox that is open to the front and would allow cool air in. Probably have to block the area above and to the rear of the radiator to keep the intrusion of hot air down from that area.

[Blake]

New front wheel for a 1983 Yamaha venture 1200 showed up.   It's 18x2.15 (identical to the rear). Right now theres a 120/90-18 bridgestone on it. The hub section is a bit too wide to adequately fit and allow me to mount discs, so this week I'm going to take some measurements and hopefully drop it off to get 1/4" to 3/8" taken off each side. Right now the face the disc mounts on is on the same plane as the fender mounts.   The other option is If I can swap triple trees with something else with 35mm forks, but a wider center to center distance.  I'd like to keep the vision forks if at all possible for this project rather than swapping over to a new inverted fork.





Also... Fuel injectors and the new rear tire showed up today. I need to modify the rear swingarm as the rear tire is a bit taller and wider. This front tire will get replaced when I take care of the fitment issue. 

Also I finally completely cut off the entire bottom of the gas tank and cut out the fuel cap "bung" in order to make new and install a new fuel bung and cap.  I'll try to snap some photos of that when I get home.


Most importantly, does anyone have a right side fork tube with the caliper bosses from an 1983/ non US model?   If I'm going through the work, I'm going to run dual discs, and I'd much rather have the Vision forks than going with xs650 or Harley forks.   Figured I'd check here first.  If someone outside the US has one, I could probably get away with just the lower part and swap my internals to make shipping cheaper.  Help please?


Blake

[The Prophet of Doom]

If you want 16R (australasian) lowers I can certainly help you out, but I think you will be disappointed. Non-US82 disks are about 10 1/2" both sides. 

I can measure next time I'm over at the workshop if you want to be exact.

[Blake]

If you want 16R (australasian) lowers I can certainly help you out, but I think you will be disappointed. Non-US82 disks are about 10 1/2" both sides. 

I can measure next time I'm over at the workshop if you want to be exact.

I'm curious if the brake caliper mounts are as far away as the US 82's?.  I reread your build thread last night to see everything you've been trying, and you could say i'm trying to do what you were with the R1 discs and calipers before you had to stop and use the originals.  Where I live (Virginia), this bike will be registered as an antique, so there isn't even a safety inspection and I can basically do what I want.  So far I've held off on buying front calipers in the off chance that I do just give up and buy a set of newer model sportbike forks on ebay (Which would be a whole other world of headaches trying to get the steering stem, wheels, rotors to fit.)

Thanks!

[The Prophet of Doom]

I've never seen US parts of course but my recall from reading this site is that the US82 lugs are further away, so if you want to go double disk you are going to need both sides, and either smaller disks or adapter plates like I fabbed up for the R1 disks.  The adapters were not a huge big deal to make.


I was going to do a fork swap originally, but figured without the trailing axle, far too much work.  I got gold inserts for the forks instead.


I did briefly contemplate machining a new pair of lowers because I do love the look of the R1 rotor and Brembos ...

[Blake]

Well,   Looks like I'm going to convert over to newer style inverted forks for my front end now.    Front end from a 2002 Suzuki Tl1000R.  As it seems these 83 forks are rare in everywhere in the world but Australia and New Zealand, In the end it'll actually be cheaper for me to switch over to this new style front end.   I'll post picture whenever it shows up.   Hoping I can get cracking on the rear subframe and gas tank this weekend also.


Oh also, thanks to pinholenz,   the distance on 83/Non-US fork lowers from the axle centerline to the bottom of the first caliper bolt mount hole is about 12cm.  On the US/single disk fork lowers, I measured 13.5cm.  At least now we have numerical differences.

[The Prophet of Doom]

Measure the length of the stem first - that will be the hardest thing to swap over if you need to.  If it's long enough the All Balls site has a calculator to find the new bearings.
If not then I could have a rummage for some lowers for you - I'm fairly sure there's a spare set in my bins - and rotors also.

[jefferson]

I know of a salvage place that has or had a complete 83 in his yard. His prices are over the top as far as I and several others are concerned. The place is Oz cycle in Ottawa, Ks. Sounds like you have the other setup on the way, but just in case this might help.

[Blake]

Measure the length of the stem first - that will be the hardest thing to swap over if you need to.  If it's long enough the All Balls site has a calculator to find the new bearings.
If not then I could have a rummage for some lowers for you - I'm fairly sure there's a spare set in my bins - and rotors also.

Thankfully the front end I was able to snag has both the upper and lower triples attached so I can start doing measurements once it arrives to see if I can simply swap bearings.   Worst case (Which i'm already assuming will happen), is i press out the stem from the TL1000, make a bushing for the lower, and then fit the Vision's stem into that.  I've found a few 82 lowers on ebay in the US for about 20-30 bucks shipped, so i can always cut a lower apart to steal the stem (I'll probably just sacrifice mine since I won't be using it again.)

The axle should be easy enough to make work.  It looks like these new sportbikes have 1" OD or larger axles.  So a simple bushing in the axle clamps and the correct size axle for this wheel will work well enough.      I guess I should start going through my parts bin and putting things up for sale to help fund this/ I'll never use them.   Anyone need a one-off aluminum upper triple with clipons?  I have a few more goodies too that might have to wait until I get the bike running. (carbs + race exhaust + k&n's that i tuned with an O2 sensor.)

[fret not]

Blake, good luck with the new front end.  I hope you saw my post in SWAP SHOP re the 'set back' between the fork tubes and the steering stem.

There is another aspect to the dynamics of how the bike handles as trail will be different with forks that position the front axle differently.  The original forks set the axle back a bit and the triple clamps and crown set the forks forward in order to control the trail.  Basically the bike will handle differently with the new forks.  If you are doing a completely different tank and radiator set up then this may well be a moot point.  But you should measure the trail the new set up will provide, as there is a range of "good", and longer or shorter than that range usually causes handling issues.  Please say you already understand this stuff and  I will shut up.

Eagerly awaiting more on this thread.

[Blake]

No worries Mike :)   I know some about rake and trail, but it's always good to talk it over with others. According to the road test, the vision has 26.3* rake and 114mm of trail.  It seems some of the newer bikes are as follows:

05-06 sv650:  23.45*/96mm,   07-08 sv650 23.8*/98mm
some GSXRs are around 25-26* and 90-100mm of trail.

Just looking at how the vision's front end is situated, it makes me see that the neck is at a rather steep angle, which necessitates the setback axle to get that 114mm of trail.  So somehow I'll need to find a way to not lose more than an inch of trail when the axle will be going directly under the forks.  The front wheel overall diameter will be 2-3" taller with the new tire, so that will help a little bit.  Perhaps a smaller fork-stem offset would even be a good thing?     I am using a completely new radiator, and can setback the tank as far as needed, so that gives me a little more wiggle room for turning.  I finally checked out the all-balls website and it seems they do have bearings for the swap conversion.  I'll really have to wait until the front end arrives (ETA next friday) to get a much better grasp as the changes that will be needed.  I'll be sure to take lots of measurements and pictures so we can get some solid numbers on the geometry differences.

[fret not]

When juggling several changes it sometimes helps to make an accurate drawing to show your eyes where all the parts fit.  I think with your experience you will find a way to make it all happen and finish with a very nice result.  This is an interesting thread we will all enjoy following.  Maybe some of us will even get some inspiration again.

[Blake]

Well, the front end came in.  And wow!  It's almost a perfect fit!

   

Lots of space for the wheels!


Need to measure the turn angle.  This is with the forks touching the frame.  Not sure If i'll need much more?  Doesn't look like much.
   

Steering stem OVERALL height is pretty darn close.   The issue it seems is the TLR's steering neck is shorter than the visions.  The section that clamps down on the upper bearing is a bit into the neck of the vision.  This will be the "hardest" part to figure out it seems.
   You can see some of the threads just down into the steering neck.  I'll stare at it a bit tomorrow and try to figure out how to rectify the situation in the easiest and cheapest way.     

The axle situation actually appears it'll be fairly simple.  The stock method of this front end is to use the axle and it threads into bushings on each side that slides into the fork.  I'll get some 4130 steel the diameter of the front wheel bearings and thread both sides into bushings that will fit into the forks.  OR, I'll just see about getting this TLR axle turned down to the diameter I need.


Also you may have noticed a line on my tank.  I was playing with a laser line level and taped out a line to cut the bottom of the tank.  For all those interested, the tank top half is .030" thick (20ga).  Very thin, but easily weldable with a tig.  I'm going to reform the bottom edge of the tank and remove that rear "dip".   The transition is about 15" long, starts about 1" wide at the front, then gradually slims down to 3/8" near the rear.  I need to find some 20ga to do it, but think of it as a simple angle piece where it wont be a straight 90*, but will start around 135* and gradually slope back to 90* at the very end.
 


That's all for now.  I picked up some 16ga sheet for the underside (might as well make it stiff) and found some 3/4", 1", and 1/2" tube in my stash at a friends garage to use for the seat frame.  We were chopping trees all this weekend at his place so I didn't get much time to start building that.

[The Prophet of Doom]

Funny, I have a chalk line on my tank in that exact same place.  Are you gas welding this or TIG?
Those forks look awesome, and well worth any effort.  Very Classified Moto.

[Blake]

Funny, I have a chalk line on my tank in that exact same place.  Are you gas welding this or TIG?

I have a tig welder I'll be using for this.  I'll practice on some scrap, but I'm thinking ill have to keep it around 30 amps and probably use mig wire as a filler since its also .035" diameter.


Also I just got done talking with a friend who's done a few front end swaps.  Considering how close this stem is to the proper length, the easiest thing to do will be to cut it in half in the middle, and add in some extra tubing to lengthen the stem maybe 1-2" for a proper fit.  I'll tear this new front end apart tomorrow and start measuring.  Hopefully get it sent out to the machine shop later this week.

[fret not]

Trimming the tank along that line should eliminate much of the trouble area that gets rusty and leaks.  Nice opportunity to install a good petcock that can be rebuilt.  Looking good.

[Blake]

I'll get fairly detailed about the fork swap in case anyone else feels like doing it in the future

The natural spot to lengthen the stem is right in the middle at a flat spot that's machined.

 

The new bearings came in and I installed the bottom one on the stem with two supplied "spacer" washers that give me a little more than 7mm of space from the bottom of the bearing to the lower triple tree (since the race is 10mm deep in the neck).  Note:  the vision's allballs replacement bearings have a 10mm high race, and these conversion bearings are 8mm high.  so these measurements are probably going to be around 2mm off.

Anyway, with the oem bearing race on the bottom and top, this is how the top bearing sits:


This is the top of the stem: 

So the bearing is currently sitting on the threaded section, when it needs to be moved down approx 20mm with these old bearing races.

Essentially where it sits now:


Where it needs to sit:


Which simply means i need about 20mm or around 7/8" added to the stem. Easy peazy.   My machinist friend said he could proabably start working on it next weekend, so i need to get the final dimensions drawn up for him and ship it out. 

Also, in regards to the front wheel, i found some allballs bearings that have a 47mm OD (same as the xv1200) but have a 25mm ID, which is what the TLR uses.  This saves me time and money on having a  new fancy front axle built.  This weekend I'll press in the new bearings and measure how big of spacers i need, and just have those made.  Done and done.

[Blake]

I swapped the lower bearing race in and slid the top one on, and that gave me 5.5mm from the top of the bearing, to the start of the transition part of the stem.  Using voodo magic and an eraser, the final number is 15.5mm to 16.0mm needs to be added to the length of the stem to fit properly!






Tomorrow i'll be loading up the truck and taking all the parts that i need to modify to my parents place where I have most of my tools.  I'll press in the new wheel bearings for the front and take measurements as to how big of spacers (both inside the hub, and outside) I will need.  Hopefully i can get those made along with the modified triple tree.

[fret not]

All this makes me wonder if there is a listing of specs for fork crowns and trees.  It would be really great to find something to fit the forks that offers more distance between the fork tubes and the steering stem.  Most of the modern bikes seem to have a very short distance there.

[The Prophet of Doom]

Fret, the Vision's trailing axle allows the forks tubes to be further forward.  If switching to other forks with a central axle, the fork tubes need to be pulled in closer to the steering column to keep the same geometry.