paint colours

Started by davecut, April 28, 2016, 05:52:54 PM

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davecut

A quick question to those with the knowledge of these bikes, I have a 1983 european model unfaired with twin discs and its a nice cherry red metalic finish,  does any one know the official code or name of this colour to see if i can get some mixed to spray some or all of the panels and possibly the tank. Many thanks Dave.

The Prophet of Doom

BR Brilliant Red. Colour code 63
It's a clear coated metallic candy over a silver base coat.


Quite common over several Yamaha models such as XJ, RD




davecut

Thanks proph i will see if my local car paint supplier can help me, pointless asking you who can supply as i see you
are in new zealand, any way thanks for info. Dave.

The Prophet of Doom

I wrote that the wrong way.  It's a clear coated candy over a metallic silver base coat.


You need to find someone who works with candys - like a hotrod shop.  Most painters don't and they will probably screw it up. One mistake and you have to sand it back to primer.



I wanted to use "Blood Red" candy from DNA Custom Paints in Australia, but my painter would only use certain paints.
I got a reasonable result using "Brandy Wine" candy from House of Kolor in USA over a white pearl from Spies Hecker in Germany









davecut

I am starting to think a bike of this age that did not cost me the earth is it crucial it stays exactly the same colour there are companies here in the uk that can supply 2k car colours in 2 ltr kits for about £30 thats about $40. So i am thinking i may as well do a complete respray test my skill with a spray i have spotted a rover colour called damask red that looks nice and close to original so this may be the way to proceed.Dave.

cvincer


Have a look at Mitsubishi Molten or Molten Red in a rattle can

Rikugun

Cost can be an issue especially when dealing with an inherently inexpensive bike such as the Vision. I have a local automotive paint supplier that can color match with samples rather than by color codes. The problem is you are still getting professional paint products that are costly. If you have good spray equipment and the skill required, pro grade finishes will look amazing and be durable. That being said, sometimes sufficiently good results can be achieved at lower cost.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

The Prophet of Doom

Rattle can paint is not typically fuel resistant, and it's soooo easy to ruin an otherwise nice paintjob with a single drip while filling.  My original white paint was ruined this way - otherwise it looked perfect.


If you want to DIY without buying all the gear, you can get these things called preval which will enable you to use proper 2k paint on a budget.




davecut

Hi again proph i had a look at the preval amazon sell it. its a next step up from spray cans, i dont think i want to go down that route. I have a compressor and a selection of spray guns but what i dont have is the knowledge that
professional sprayers have, i think a lot of the cost when you have a car or bike sprayed is their knowledge of how to do this job properly. But on the right day with favourable weather conditions and the right preparations i think a
reasonable finish could be achieved. I need to get the mechanicals right first so this is the last job on the list. Dave.

Rikugun

I rattle can painted this rear cowl (part behind the seat) with good results. Encouraged, I did a fairing with not as great results.

The final coat is clear which is wet sanded when dry. The final step is polishing. It's very labor intensive by hand so on the fairing I used an electric buffer and went through the clear coat in spots. Those spots don't shine. Once installed and after a season or two I noticed the clear coat also crazed and delaminated in spots. I'd guess this is from flexing while under way or from removal/installation? UV over time probably also has it's way.  As POD pointed out any gas spills are detrimental to the finish.

The bike wasn't show quality so it looked good enough and was reasonably cheap but did take time. The durability leaves a bit to be desired.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

fret not

The 'trick' for getting a great result is in preparation of the surfaces.  If your surfaces are not great your finish job can't be any better. Scratches, dents, and uneven areas will show in the final surface.  So, the surfaces must be very smooth and scrupulously clean.
THEN there is the skill part where you need to practice enough to be able to spray even coats.  Solid colors are far easier to achieve a good result, but metallic and candy colors require a very even application.  As long as you have a compressor you can spend some time practicing spraying cardboard boxes, sheet metal, or a sheet of hardboard (masonite). Spraying uneven shapes is another potential difficulty for a 'beginner', and fuel tanks are a prime example.  The problem is getting the coats to fully cover without getting too much finish material in any areas.  Too much material if wet will likely sag or run, and if dry will take a much longer time to cure out, and is more likely to chip or check.  A fairly thin and even finish will be more flexible and less likely to check  or chip.

The folks behind the counter at your local automotive paint store can be very helpful with advice, as they want their product to work well.  They can get you set up with the correct supplies and information to get you through each stage of the process.

Also you might ask an auto body and collision repair shop how much it would cost to have them do the job.  If you do all the prep work and all they have to do is spray your chosen color the job should cost significantly less than if they were to do the whole thing.  It doesn't hurt to ask.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

The Prophet of Doom

Nice post Fretnut.  You can save heaps by doing all the grunt work. ASK them before you put a whole bunch of material on your tank that has to be sanded off.All your undercoating materials - primer, spray putty need to be compatible with the paint system they are using







fret not

With a subject seemingly as simple as applying finish a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.  It is all too easy to get ahead of yourself in a rush to the end of the job and ruin it in the haste, but if you can understand the process and the time needed between steps, the proper materials, and the equipment, you can achieve a professional appearance in the completed job.  It IS simple, but it has it's requirements and there is precious little room to deviate from the program.

Way back in the days of dinosaurs when I worked at a Honda dealership (we had both bikes and cars) one of our better mechanics was having difficulty respraying a door to match the color of the car, even though it was the correct factory paint.  His education that followed impressed me to this day.  The problem matching a metallic color is to control all the variables as much as possible, and those variables as I understand them are: atmospheric pressure, relative humidity, temperature, air pressure at the spray gun, material delivery rate at the gun, material application rate, and *the material*(whether and how much it is thinned, and with what thinner).  I'm sure there are some other elements to the equation that I have missed, but you get the idea that it isn't as simple as it looks.

My meager experience is with nitro lacquer on guitars, not the tougher automotive finishes used on metal, though much of the techniques and requirements overlap.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

injuhneer

I am ignoring the warning that this is a old topic. OK. Old by calendar but vehicle finishes are a topic that is always useful.

I started doing auto finishes as a teenager. Centari was one of my favorites because it was a forgiving paint. Nowadays there are coats and catalyzers and clears and so on...

For single part rattle-can paint the prep that FN advised is key. The second is consistent application. You can buff paint that is thick or wet-sand a run but adding paint after the fact is harder.

The other step that is well worth the time is a bit of heat. As a kid when I would paint plastic bits on little Hondas and such during winter months I put the "dry" pieces on top of our water heater. I did this because it was cold outside. I discovered what many already knew; that small amount of constant heat during the cure made all the difference in the durability of the finish. Even to the point of resisting fuel for a longer time than a piece that was left to "air dry".

Considering aiding the curing process on your pieces after painting them. It will make a difference in durability and appearance.

You can make a "curing oven" from a myriad of containers. A box with a low wattage space heater. A plexi box using sunlight. I saw one with a hair-dryer and plastic tub. Another methods was a guy who stored pieces in a panel van at his shop. The van was essentially a hot-box.

The goal is to warm the piece after the initial set of the paint but before it hardens fully on the surface (read: still permeable to off-gassing). Enough to warm the whole part but not to melt or deform it.

HTH

- Mike O
1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ