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New to Me '82 Vision

Started by wombosi, May 21, 2016, 09:46:25 PM

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wombosi

I picked up this bike a few months ago (been waiting on moderator approval to join up here) in Queens, NY.



I may or not be selling but wanted to check in with you all and "register" the bike, so to speak.

It has 10,000 miles on the clock. All parts are there, except for potentially some airbox parts, and she turns over.

I installed a new battery today, and after having de-rusted the tank and installing an inline filter, went to fire it up, hoping to get lucky. I was not.
The starter feels and sounds extremely sluggish, and about half the time merely makes a noise like something rattling gravel in a can.
I was reading the FAQ here and it sounds like this is common with these bikes.

There is a strange apparatus that sits above the air filter with a hose coming off it. I can't figure out what this does or connects to. Seems like it actuates a little damper and controls air flow? I can't tell if pieces are missing or not.

I'm having problems with the petcock. Installed new screws and sealing washers. Appears to be leaking from the main o-ring, which looks to be in decent shape to me.

I'm a little daunted to tear into these carbs, with what seems like so few parts available, and more complicated carbs than I am used to on the inline 4s.

It has a stainless brake line and aftermarket fork brace.

So, hoping you guys can sway me to keep this and get it going, but I really want to avoid a bottomless pit of repairs and precious weekends gobbled up.
Are these carbs reasonably easy to clean?
What about the starter issue?

Any advice would be appreciated.

QBS

Welcome to the Group.  In all likelihood, at 10k miles the starter is full of oil and needs to have its' oil seal upgraded to a spring lip design seal and have its brushes replaced.  This is probably why the bike only has 10k miles on it.  That's the mileage that the oil seal fails at.  A new battery will do nothing for an oil filled starter.  These are easy, cheap, and permanent fixes.

Also, your starter clutch probably needs to be properly reattached to the alternator rotor/flywheel.  Absolutely unavoidable factory defect.  The repair is cheap to do and  is a permanent fix.  Not too complicated to do, but not as easy as the starter motor fix. 

fret not

Wambosi, if you enjoy challenges, puzzles, and riding great motorcycles you will enjoy the XZ.  If  you would like a reasonably deep education in the various systems of Japanese motorcycles you should be rewarded if you persevere with the XZ.  As noted the bike has some issues but they all can be remedied.  If you make this happen you will earn a place of esteem in the eyes of most other folks that ride bikes.

Where do you hail from?
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

Walt_M.

Welcome to the forum but be aware that there are challenges ahead. Of course the starter has engine oil in it. Easy fix with a new seal. The apparatus above the air box is the vacuum flapper, at least you have it. The carburetors will have to be cleaned, if you are lucky the bike stopped running before ethanol fuel and may not need anything more than bowl gaskets. Your fuel tank may be leaking instead of the petcock. It is also possible that your stator is fried. The bike looks good in the photo and is probably worth fixing but you have to decide if you have the time. The bike is probably worth more whole than parted out, especially if you have the title.
Whale oil beef hooked!

wombosi

Thanks guys.
Is there a source for float bowl gaskets? I only found one rebuild kit on eBay and they are quite costly.

I am in western MA.

Walt_M.

If you are careful on disassembly, they may be reusable. You may also be able to cut your own. Just be aware that '82 carbs are different from '83s so don't get the wrong thing.
Whale oil beef hooked!

wombosi

So am I correct in that the only source for float bowl gaskets is one ebay seller selling an entire rebuild kit at $90 per carb?

QBS

If your carbs have not been previously disassembled there is an excellent chance that their float bowl gaskets can be reused.  Be very careful when you remove the float bowls and take care to not tear the gaskets.  They require no sealent and weren't sealed by the factory.  Don't become concerned about this until you can see that you have a reason to be concerned.  During the last 31 years I have been in and out of my '83 carbs numerous times and they still have their factory float bowl gaskets.

Rikugun

Quote from: wombosi on May 24, 2016, 10:24:38 AM
So am I correct in that the only source for float bowl gaskets is one ebay seller selling an entire rebuild kit at $90 per carb?

Here's the first one that came up on my search of "XZ550 carb rebuild": $27.95 for 2 kits

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-XZ550-CARB-REPAIR-KITS-2-REPAIR-KITS-INCLUDED-CI-XZ550CR-/161841845141?hash=item25ae869395:g:KHkAAOSwuTxWCirA&vxp=mtr
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

wombosi

Thanks QBS. I just like to have a kit on hand rather than tear into them and then have to wait 3 weeks for shipping from Japan.
But perhaps I'll see if I can get lucky.

Rikugun - THANKS man!! huge help there. Can't believe I didn't find that.

Rikugun

No problem and glad to help.  :)
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

wombosi

#11
I pulled the carbs off the bike today and opened them up.
First of all, it was challenging just removing the carbs from the bike! Never seen such a convoluted setup.

Float bowl gaskets look perfect, but are fused onto the carb body. Don't want to try to scrap them off. And I assume boiling the carbs would be bad.
This is a shame because these carbs seem well suited to boiling in lemon juice, or soaking, rather than trying to clean by hand.
I have successfully cleaned several different sets of carbs, but have never seen anything like these.

Any tips for how to proceed would be great.  I can use compressed air, needles, guitar strings, carb cleaner, etc.... but there are some little ports and orifices that look impossible to reach.

Thanks!


Also: does anyone have photos of how the vacuum flapper should attach? Or rather, the line coming out of it, what does that attach to?
Thanks

QBS

If you don't remove the gaskets from the carb bodies before dipping them, they will probably be ruined.  Use a thin sharp blade to carefully scrape/pry them off undamaged.

Rikugun

Quote.... but there are some little ports and orifices that look impossible to reach.
Looks are not deceiving, they are impossible to get to. That's why ultrasonic and/or dips seem to be the method of choice when available. Do the best you can and hope for the best.  :)

Will lemon juice hurt the gasket? I'd think it would be OK but have no idea.

The carbs are installed from the left. Once the wire loom and it's holders are moved out of the way it's quite easy. Another method is to remove the fuel pump/regulator/bracket assembly and take them out from the top. Using this method, you may have to turn them 90 degrees on the longitudinal axis once freed from the rubber manifolds.

Taking the emulsion tube out for cleaning can be tricky but is crucial.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

wombosi

Boiled the carbs in lemon juice last night. I was careful not to submerge what I believe is the built in air filter between the two carbs?
Following up with lots of compressed air and carb cleaner.

Am I mistaken that there are actually NO removable jets on these '82 carbs? I don't see a single threaded-in jet.
Also, where do I locate the emulsion tube? Is that under the float needle?

Thanks.

Hope to get these back in the bike this weekend and get her running.

Rikugun

Forum member pinholenz made these very nice carb videos:

part 1 https://vimeo.com/71009440
part 2 https://vimeo.com/70672209

In part 1 at about 4:27 he shows the removable jet and emulsion tube locations.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

wombosi

Spent the better part of the last two days cleaning the carbs. I was not able to remove the emulsion tubes.

Anyway, I think there is an issue with the petcock. Is this vacuum operated?
It appears that gas is not flowing to the carbs. It looks like there is flow in On and Res positions, but it stops at my inline filter. Under ignition, it seems like there is some kind of pumping activity, but not strong enough to pull it up.
Taking off the inline filter and turning the petcock to "off" there is still a slow trickle of gas coming out.
So does the petcock need to be rebuilt? And is this the reason there is no vacuum pressure as well?


Or, if it's not vacuum operated, I must have just not cleaned them enough?


Also, there is a pinhole leak on the left side corner of the tank, with a steady stream of gas spewing out it.
This was not present even a few weeks ago. I'm wondering if by cleaning it with muriatic acid, some of the acid remained in the corner and ate a hole through it? But it was so heavily flushed out with water and then with gas, and I saw no leak. Strange.

Seems I have at least two problems at hand.

Thanks



I did finally fix the leak at the petcock to tank connection with a new o-ring.

The Prophet of Doom

If you can't remove the emulsion tubes, then chances are they are full of crud.  Get this sorted else you are on the back foot for everything else.  It's an essential part of the carb, and you need all those super-tiny holes clear.


I've had good results with a few hours in my hot ultrasonic bath followed by compressed air.  Others have resorted to screws driven into the top, and then soldering them back up again.

fret not

The emulsion tubes are just a slip fit in the carb bodies.  I drilled a small hole in their ends and made a hook with a wire to pull them out, then soldered the holes shut.  A screw would be pretty secure too, and just as easy to solder up again.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

Rikugun

Where the tank is leaking may be somewhat typical. The acid cleaning process likely compromised an already rust weakened area. Acid cleaning is step 1 when sealing a tank. It sounds like you may have skipped the sealing part?

Some pictures of the petcock would help identify it. If vacuum type, there should be a fuel outlet and a smaller fitting for a vacuum line. In addition, the selector valve should have three positions: PRI (prime), ON, and RES for "reserve". You stated yours has an OFF position which seems to indicate it is not a vacuum type. A manual type will  have no vacuum tube connection.

You mentioned yours trickles fuel in the OFF position - does the flow increase when turned to ON? If so, reconnect the fuel line and open the carb drain screws. Turn the petcock to ON and fuel should flow to the carbs and out the drains assuming there is still gas in the tank. If not, there's something wrong. Either way, it's got to be sorted since it trickles fuel in the OFF position which is not good.

It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan