Finding a brake solution

[vl5150]

I'm going to move forward with some caliper testing on my '82.  I did this with my Zephyr 750 a few years ago.  You cross reference a model that uses the same brake calipers/pads, then find a more popular model where some machines caliper adapters for better brakes.

I see we share brakes with the RZ350 so I started there. A guy on ebay makes adapters to use R1/R6 "spot" calipers and that should be a nice upgrade over the single pot. I emailed him to see if he would let me buy a right side only and test.  There's a ton of Yamaha's from the period that use these single pot calipers and can't stop.

People make adapters in Australia to support early R1 rotors with the spot caliper adapters as well.  I think that would be too much for a single brake rotor w/o a fork brace, but a possibility for the 83's I think.

I'll let you guys know the progress. 

[vl5150]

Ok, Here's my plan

I'm going to stick with the left side single brake and see how it does.  I already detect twisting on the forks when braking now with the wimpy brake caliper so I ordered a fork brace.
Then I ordered the left side brake adapter from Tony at TDRRZ.com
The calipers that work are the blue dots from the R6 and the gold dots from the R1.  I went with the R6 because they use the stainless pistons.  The gold ones use aluminum and I think service intervals would be more frequent on aluminum.

So here's the costs:
Adapter from Tony at TDRRZ.com- $75
R6 Brake caliper from ebay- $46 (nice used, cheaper can be had)
Tarozzi fork brace from fast from the past.com- $111.75

So that's what I have going now.  I'll do some calculations on the master cylinder piston to see if it can pump these calipers.  And hopefully my existing Galfer SS brake line will work.

[vintage bikeworks]

I have the single adapter from TDR (left side, also working on an '82) and am working the upgrade too.  What I forgot to ask him at TDR is if the combination of adapter and R6 caliper is sized for the standard Yamaha single rotor or matches the diameter of the R1 or R6 drilled rotor?  Having the more modern drilled rotor would be nice.  If the rotor is larger, all the better for a single disk application.  I'm a fan of a large single disk vs the smaller dual disk since it results in less unsprung weight.  Any idea on applicable rotor size with the upgrade? 

[Rikugun]

I'll do some calculations on the master cylinder piston to see if it can pump these calipers.

Having done some master cylinder and caliper swapping I'm interested in how this works too. Do you know the caliper piston(s) diameters? I'd like to plug those numbers into my spreadsheet and see where they land. Will you be keeping the 1/2" master?

[fret not]

Here is a link to the information for selecting a compatible master cylinder.
http://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm

[vl5150]

I read they're (2) 27mm and (2) 30 mm. I think that comes out to 2577 or something like that.  I'm not sure what the best M/C piston is for a single 4 piston caliper though.  I have read that a FZ1 master works well with them.  I happen to have on on-hand from another project and will try it.  These are the ones that look the same as the Vision- black rectangular body as opposed to the separate plastic cup so it will look natural on it.
I believe the stock M/C if it is indeed 1/2" should be in the range, but I'm not exactly sure what the ratio should be for a 4 piston single caliper exactly. 

[vl5150]

I have the single adapter from TDR (left side, also working on an '82) and am working the upgrade too.  What I forgot to ask him at TDR is if the combination of adapter and R6 caliper is sized for the standard Yamaha single rotor or matches the diameter of the R1 or R6 drilled rotor?  Having the more modern drilled rotor would be nice.  If the rotor is larger, all the better for a single disk application.  I'm a fan of a large single disk vs the smaller dual disk since it results in less unsprung weight.  Any idea on applicable rotor size with the upgrade?

It's for the stock rotor.  There's a guy in Australia making them for the early R1 rotor.  I will say my Buell Cyclone with the large single rotor brakes outstanding and will stoppie.  But the forks are much, much than beefier the Vision (43mm) and it comes standard with a fork brace.  I can feel the forks torque when I brake now and the stock brake has the power of a 1980 Huffy bicycle.

I'd love to go large rotors and adapters perhaps with dual rotors.

[vl5150]

Tony just emailed me and has kits now listed for the left, right, and both on Ebay.  Here's the one I ordered:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Caliper-Adapter-Yamaha-Maxim-Vision-Seca-XT-600-R1-Brakes-Left-side-/282141298108?vxp=mtr&hash=item41b0ee8dbc

I think this is going to help the other Yamaha guys that share our problem that own Secas, Virago's and Maxims.

[auto]

watching this thread with interest. After putting a 83 front end on my 82 some years back I was disappointed with the results.I was still using the 82 master cylinder,if that is the difference.Picked up a pair of dual piston nissin calipers cheap.Might try to adapt them on.

[vintage bikeworks]

I have an '02 Yamaha FZ1 and can report the caliper fits the adapter and stock rotor on the Vision.  I verified part numbers and any FZ1 from 2001-2005 are the same.  (first gen. FZ1)  Clearance between the caliper and wheel is close at .090" but at least I didn't have to modify anything.  Reports from another member who used an R6 caliper were that he had to modify (remove material from?) the caliper for an acceptable clearance.  My only concern is the contact area between the pads and the rotor.  The pad does not contact the rotor to the outer edge.  Maybe it's acceptable?  Maybe this combination was designed for the smaller '83 Vision rotor?  I will try to apply some layout dye to the rotor to show actual contact area and report back...

[vintage bikeworks]

Couldn't find my layout blue...Grease will do...  Contact area of caliper/pad combination shown.  You can also see where the stock caliper and pad contacted the rotor.  Now thinking original design of adapter/caliper combo was for a dual (smaller) disk setup.

[vl5150]

Yes the adapters are really designed for the RZ350 with the smaller twin rotors and by extension the '83.  The 82 Vision has the larger rotor as we know, but the mounting boss on the fork is shaped differently than the other twin caliper forks.  The lowed boss is kicked out a bit.   Did you try it out?  If the rotor has partial coverage, but the bike stops better it can be a life saver literally.

[vl5150]

I've been looking at the grease on that rotor like it's a Rorschach test. The coverage is not 100% optimal and possibly drilling holes in different places on the mount could get better rotor coverage.  However I searched a bunch on automotive wear patterns on disk rotors and found plenty of instances where there's similar bands of non coverage. Mostly from Nissan on the 370Z and Murano.  So the proof will be in how it stops and move forward.  It's not too bad considering it's for a completely different model and wouldn't have been available commercially if it was just for a '82 Vision

[vintage bikeworks]

Had a chance to try the caliper/rotor combination.  I still have the stock brake line in use since I was waiting to install a braided line with the brake modification. Nevertheless, braking is substantially better than with the single piston stock caliper.  What is surprising is the overall feel and ability to modulate pressure is good.  I haven't done the master cylinder piston to caliper piston area math yet but it must not be too far off with this setup.  With a braided steel line, feel will no doubt be even better.  The stock single piston setup was marginal and borderline unsafe.  This current setup is definitely more confidence inspiring.  Will follow up after the braided line install...

[vl5150]

Great news!  I was checking old posts here and front rotors for the 98-03 R6 an R1 Rotors should bolt up.  So if the stock rotors wear with a weird pattern, I just picked up a pair of used R6 rotors on ebay for 45 bucks with 5.5 mm of thickness.  So those 2 rotors should last my lifetime.

I've been driving my Vision more and have gotten faster on it and agree 100% about the brakes- it's unsafe at this point. So this is very encouraging.

[vintage bikeworks]

Yes the adapters are really designed for the RZ350 with the smaller twin rotors and by extension the '83.  The 82 Vision has the larger rotor as we know, but the mounting boss on the fork is shaped differently than the other twin caliper forks.  The lowed boss is kicked out a bit. 

Ahh!  The '82's different fork leg (caliper mounting boss) makes sense now as I had to remove a small amount of material on the adapter to move it far enough in for the bolts to line up.  Having the fork leg from an '83 might provide enough tilt of the caliper to improve pad to rotor contact.  Maybe I'll look for an '83 leg at next seal replacement? 

[vl5150]

My thoughts on the '83 lower..

It may be a mixed result.  The single rotor on the '82 is larger to give you more leverage to stop.  The '83 has a small rotor, but two of them so it probably equates to more swept area overall.  If you find a lower fork tube from the '83 you'll need to get the smaller rotor and then only have one of them. 

[The Prophet of Doom]

Has anyone tried two left hand US82 lowers and rotors with 83 calipers?
Obviously the mudguard mount would need to be filed off, and a little machining for the axle... but doesn't look too hard.


I'll pay postage if someone wants to send me a couple of lowers and rotors - I'd give it a crack.  You can't get them here

[vl5150]

I was looking at my forks and thinking the same thing.  I found a picture of a universal fork mounted to a fork brake.

I guess the only reason to do this is if you want to keep the trailing axle though, correct?

[vintage bikeworks]

Installed an HEL brake line today.  Keeping it simple to blend in with the bike... No fancy outer covering, just straight black with crimped ends covered in black and stainless banjo fitting bolts.  Braking action has taken another step forward with the addition of the line.  Lever travel is reduced.  Where the stock setup allowed for 2/3 travel back to the grip, it now only moves 1/3 to 1/2 way back.  I can now lock the front wheel, yet brake is progressive under severe braking.  Next plan is to look for a R6 or R1 rotor.  Due to the increased braking power and resulting heat,  I think the setup would benefit from a modern, floating style rotor.  Overall, very happy with the outcome... :)