Author Topic: High voltage readings on the home front.  (Read 3518 times)

QBS

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Grand Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 3282
High voltage readings on the home front.
« on: May 17, 2005, 05:37:48 PM »
My voltmeter has suddenly begun to show 16V at anthing above 3k rpm.  The voltage may actually be even higher.  The meter hits its stop at 16V.

Both of the r/r connections have been hardwired soldered for a long time.  Thoughts please.  Also, over the years I've seen comments made regarding the "Brown Wire" and keeping its connection in good order.  Where is this wire and what does it connect to?  Where is connection located?  Could this wire be related to my over charging problem?

I find it ironic that I installed the Voltmeter to warn of impending low voltage stator failure doom, only to find that its first warning was of high.  The V never ceases to have curves to throw in your direction.  Cheers.

Lucky

  • Visionary Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 9877
  • That's my baby!!
Re: High voltage readings on the home front.
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2005, 07:39:32 PM »
Q, did you get the reply i sent to your email about this?
the regulator controlls the level of voltage supplied to the bike from the stator.  if it shorts internally then it outputs all the voltage available to it from the stator. if it burns out the voltage level drops. yours just happened to fail in the other direction, it happens.

per your email, yes, i'll do it if you really want, but you could get a very good meter for the $$ you'd spend on shipping.  the electrex chart isn't hard to follow, jst take it step by step.  i have a simplified version of the r/r portion on my site, linked on the "charging & ignition" page.

--Lucky
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

h2olawyer

  • Visionary Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 6259
  • 1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ+ Vision
    • Robert M. Grover
Re: High voltage readings on the home front.
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2005, 10:08:16 PM »
 >:( ?I'm chasing the dreaded brown wire gremlin now. ? >:( ?Noticed that all of a sudden, my voltmeter went from strong 14V @ idle to about 12V. ?Still gets back up to 14V above 2500RPM. ?Been through all connectors - recleaned & reattached. ?Chart also states this is the most difficult fault to locate. ?Guess I'll feel pretty good about it when I find it all.

All Electrex tests (on page 1) measure within specs until the first test on the second page. ?Supposed to get less than .2 volts. ?I have .330. ?Before I started, it was up around .450 so I am making some headway.

Tested battery before following the Electrex chart. ?Had one weak cell so I replaced it with an Interstate sealed maintenance free unit. ?Wanted to make sure I wasn't getting false numbers from a dying battery. ?When Interstate did a load test, it showed a definite weakness but not critical yet. ?Still, it was on its way out so replacing it was the best solution.

Had a good conversation with the Interstate dealer. ?He said it is great to keep the battery connected to a float charger whenever it isn't being ridden. ?Should get many years of service that way. ?Last battery (Champion - moderate cheapie) was three years old. ?Only 1 1/2 years with the Battery Tender Jr. connected. ?Maybe some sulfaction damage before I got the BT Jr. ?Still, beats a yearly replacement like I used to need!

Well, back to the garage to see if I can get that voltage back down below .2. ?I'll try to remember to post when I discover what the main culprit was. ?Obviously, the connectors had some small problems but not enough to cure the fault by cleaning them. ?

I know I need to look deeper into the ignition switch & fuse block. ?Ignition switch was removed & cleaned out today. ?Made no difference - except that it is now more securely installed. ?One bolt was missing & the other was loose. ?Replaced the missing bolt & Loctited (blue) them both in place. ?(I remember a warning about this potential problem, but neglected to do anything about it until I noticed the switch was lots looser than I remembered. ? ::)

Any other hints greatly appreciated!
(New stator & R/R last year.)

H2O
« Last Edit: May 17, 2005, 10:09:08 PM by h2olawyer »
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

supervision

  • Visionary Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1305
Re: High voltage readings on the home front.
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2005, 01:59:30 AM »
 I had the same high voltage problem for years, even tryed another r/r one time.  the last time i was changing stators I switched to a  honda r/r (they work the same, just are a different color code)  But anyway I was just trying to get the high voltage to go away...  The problem comes from resistence in the old wiring!!  About the only wire on the bike that this really make any difference on is the "sence" wire... the job of that wire is to tell the regulator weather to feed the battery or shunt to ground.  the  old wire gives a lower reading and thus the over charging!  Disconnect the brown wire and send it straight to the pos. side of the battery. the voltage will be correct.  There may have been a reason for haveing that wire turn on and off with the key, but I can't find it .  Only brand new wire should be use to hook up this, one of my old jumper wires with aligator clips on each end had enough resistence in it to cause over charging, but a new piece of wire stopped the problem.    It's easy to see the difference, take a new wire and touch it to the brown connector and to the pos. post it changes the output right now!   Dave
" border="0

MotorPlow

  • Visionary Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1268
  • Am I less of a Caveman for owning a Vision?
    • My Yamaha Vision Page
Re: High voltage readings on the home front.
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2005, 11:42:00 AM »
Hey,
My bike religiously charges at 13.9 - 14.5 volts.  In warmer weather she will occasionally peak at 15 volts.  She has always idled at +/-12.2 volts... always.  Should I start worrying about this?  Or just let it be as it has always been?

Chris F.

h2olawyer

  • Visionary Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 6259
  • 1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ+ Vision
    • Robert M. Grover
Re: High voltage readings on the home front.
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2005, 12:51:30 PM »
Chris -

I don't think you have anything to worry about.  If it has always charged like that and worked well, probably no real problems.  Mine has changed its charging behavior suddenly & without warning.

Mine was charging @ 14V+ at idle since I installed the voltmeter in the dash in March.  Never varied much.  Suddenly, at idle, charging dropped to about 12V.  Goes back up to 14+ at 2500 RPM.  That made me run the Electrex diagnostics & I found the bad connection in the brown wire circuit result.

I keep it hooked to the BT Jr. whenever I'm not riding it so something changed.  New battery helped lower the numbers & cleaning the contacts on all the connectors in that circuit helped a little more.  Now charging at close to 13V at idle.  Want to get it back as it was and find out where the poor connection is located.

Have lots of stuff to get done this afternoon but will get back to cleaning & testing later today.  I'll go get a new fusebox just to have in case I run out of all other options.

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

Walt_M.

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 2430
  • Hold my beer and watch this!
Re: High voltage readings on the home front.
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2005, 01:45:56 PM »
Reason number 1 for having the brown wire switched, possible battery drain through the R/R. Not a problem if it is parked in your garage and connected to a Battery Tender, could be a bit of a pain if you forget or go on a trip.
Whale oil beef hooked!

QBS

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Grand Master
  • ****
  • Posts: 3282
Re: High voltage readings on the home front.
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2005, 05:24:06 PM »
Lucky. thank you very much for your prompt reply.  I certainly did recieve your Email and am currently doing doing further research and investigating other and all options.

SV & Walt M, I can't stand it.  Please tell me where this brown wire can be found.  Where does it start and where does it end?  Cheers.

h2olawyer

  • Visionary Grand Master
  • *****
  • Posts: 6259
  • 1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ+ Vision
    • Robert M. Grover
Re: High voltage readings on the home front.
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2005, 11:37:22 PM »
 ;D  Success!!   ;D

At least partial success.  Got an inline fuse holder for the 30A main, and bypassed the original.  Now charges @ 14.2V at idle again, but brown wire test still @.3V.  Appears that even in arid climates, where electrical connectors & other parts corrode much slower, the fuse block reached the end of its useful life.

Will change the entire fuse block when I can locate the Littlefuse unit.  Looked at the Buss 6 circuit block like is mentioned in a couple other posts.  Seemed like more work getting the wiring to fit right than the Littlefuse.  No Pep Boys around here & none of the others carry that brand.  May have to source it on the 'net.

Changing it will likely get the brown wire to read below .2V like it should.  Glad I remembered about the well documented problems others have experienced with the original block.  Wanted to try and keep from cutting into the wiring harness since it was completely unmolested - until I did the 30A bypass.  At least now I'll be able to have a couple extra circuits for gauges & toys.

CHARGE!

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

supervision

  • Visionary Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1305
Re: High voltage readings on the home front.
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2005, 01:27:51 AM »
  sorry, I forgot to say where the brown wire is...  the r/r is located behind the battery box, it is a finned block about 3x4.  there are two sets of wires ,one loom has the 3 wires comming from the stator, the other loom has the red output wire, the black ground wire and the brown sence wire.  dig out the loom with the brown wire and supply current straight from the pos post of the battery, just do it for a test while you are running the bike with the volt meter hooked up, should see a drop in voltage...     walt,, checked carefully with a digital volt meter, hooking and unhooking, no draw on the battery.  Mine has been hooked up sence before our fall rally, and the battery has not gone down.  the only difference is I'm using a honda r/r..   The reason I changed r/r was only to try a cure this overcharging I was having..  I finally found the reason.   I was reading the voltage on the brown wire (key on, motor off), and I moved over straight to the battery, and got like 1/2 a volt more..   try and see what you can see,  Dave
" border="0

Leather

  • ROV Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
  • Fighter Pilot Creed - "Speed Is Life"
    • Vision Garage
Re: High voltage readings on the home front.
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2005, 07:15:30 AM »
QBS -

Hey brother -  hope this turns out to be minor.  Great info by all (esp Supervision and Waltm).

The RR is supposed to put out about 14.5 volts when charging.  Certainly.... 15 would be ok.  16 I think is pushing it and probably means something wrong.  Remember... the stator is outputing 50 volts AC !!  So.... this is not hugely bad but not quite right either.

There are 2 wires on some Vision RR not on others.  The Yellow and Brown wire.

The yellow wire is NOT used at all.

The Brown wire as discussed above is to provide a low amp +12 reference wire for the RR.  ANotherwords, it tells the RR what your battery charge is.  It drives the RR.

SO.... the brown wire needs to be a good connection to the +12 side of the battery.

Now... I agree with Waltm this should NOT be hot-wired direct to the +12.  Yes, does work but then the bike is always ON.

SO..... where's the Brown wire?  WHere's Waldo ?!?

Here are the diagrams from Lucky I split so your can see them better.





What I would do:

As per Supervision I would connect a wire directly between the  Brown RR wire and the +12 post battery.  Run the bike and see what happens?  Does this make a difference?  If not.... then my guess this is NOT the problem.  Oh Well.


If it does make a difference then:

- I would run a new wire between the RR and where is should be connected in the bike.

I HAVE NOT GONE OUT TO THE GARAGE TO DO THIS..... but the diagrams above show me that from the key ignition switch there is a connector with a red/blue/brown wire.  This is where the brown wire is.  So I would splice into the brown wire just after it leaves the ignition.  HOW HARD IS IT TO GET TO THAT?  I don't know off top of my head.  Probably a pain in the ass.  But there it is.  That's what you'd want to do.


Let me know if that doesn't help.


Cheers  !
Lead, Follow, or Get the Hell out of the way.

Leather

  • ROV Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 87
  • Fighter Pilot Creed - "Speed Is Life"
    • Vision Garage
Re: High voltage readings on the home front.
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2005, 07:37:47 AM »
P.S.

The Brown wire continues on and is the +12 side of the HeadLight fuse in the fuse box  (take the fuse out, with key on.... the +12 side of the headlight fuse holder is the Brown wire from the ignition to the RR)

The Brown wire from the ignition drives the RR and also the Headlight.


Here is the full wire diagram as PDF file.  Its a 1meg file so right click download first and then open with adobe reader:


http://www.jetav8r.com/Files/WiringDiagram.pdf

Lead, Follow, or Get the Hell out of the way.