Ignition will not shut off

[RBFD415]

Just put my newly refreshed carbs on the bike- did an ignition check and found that while it comes on, the ignition will not shut off? Turning the key to any position does nothing.

Haven't seen this issue posted prior- any ideas on a fix or work around?

[Rikugun]

did an ignition check and found that while it comes on, the ignition will not shut off

Not sure what "an ignition check" is but are the lights on as well? Did you do any other work at the same time especially involving any electrical connections i.e. regulator or TCI? http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=15342.msg140699#msg140699

If that's not it you could try testing the key switch in it's various positions using an ohm meter to see if the connections are being made and broken when they should. There is a chart on the wiring diagram that shows what connections and wire colors for the various switches.

[fret not]

Logic points to a malfunction in the ignition switch, but there could be a pinched or rubbed wire somewhere.  Hopefully it is the switch and can be cleaned up, otherwise you could spend some time searching for tiny scuffs or cracks in the insulation of the wires. 

[RBFD415]

When the bike was last ridden- I had to limp it home with the ailing carbs. When I arrived home the bike would not shut off via the ignition. That was last year. Since then I completely redid the carbs. I also pulled the ignition switch since, as has happened to others- my ignition switch had come lose under the panel with a bolt backing out and falling. The other bolt was lose. I did nothing with this other than getting new bolts and properly attaching the switch back in position. When I say an ignition check- I was checking today that the battery was charged and I could turn the engine over. That's when I found that regardless of position, the ignition would not shut down. In the months in between- the ignition had restored to "off". Of course I've had the battery out of the bike since then.

I have the gut impression this is not the switch. But of course- we know with these bikes, anything is possible!?

[fret not]

Follow the wires.  Somehow the ignition system is getting 12 V. 

I suggest flushing the interior of the switch with WD40 and 'working' it vigorously to loosen and dislodge any accumulated residue from the internal contacts.  It can't hurt, and it might help.

Somewhere in the dim past there was a discussion of this problem.  Maybe a tour through the ARCHIVES will bring it up.

[Rikugun]

When the key is turned off are all the lights still on? Brake light work? Help us narrow it down.

[RBFD415]

YES.....the lights ARE on.

I'll try the WD-40, if you guys don't think it will harm anything.

I suppose it would be simple enough to jump out the pins on the connector to see if it remains hot even without the switch connected?!

[RBFD415]

Correction and update:

The lights ARE ON. I have the headlight disconnected out of the bucket and was working in bright sunlight, so I didn't notice the tail light on.

I tried the WD-40, seems to have no effect on the switch.

I disconnected the ignition switch at the plug in the bucket. With it disconnected it makes no difference- ignition is still on. Switching the "engine kill" switch will disable the starter, but the dash lights remain lit.

I tried starting it, but with an out of adjustment new rebuild (carbs)- I don't have it running evenly yet. It WILL fire and run for a minute.

I can hear a switching action coming from the TCI ignition module on the right side when the battery is connected/disconnected.

[fret not]

You have a "hot" wire from the battery to the ignition switch, and somehow it is making a connection SOMEWHERE with another wire to energize your ignition system. 

These bikes are nowhere near new anymore, so every possibility is suspect.  Start with handlebar switches.  Disconnect one and see if the ignition is still on.  Then the other side, and so on.  I have a sneaky suspicion it will be the RH switch assembly.  But check ALL the switches and connections.

[Rikugun]

Well this is certainly an unusual problem. It would be interesting to diagnose but the details are still a bit sketchy.

Just to clarify, With the main key switch plug disconnected, you still have lights and the starter turns and the engine will fire?

I can hear a switching action coming from the TCI ignition module on the right side when the battery is connected/disconnected.

Can you get help to verify that it is the TCI and not one of the relays mounted nearby? It's sometimes tough to tell where a noise is coming from but perhaps it can be felt. Have someone touch the relays and TCI when the battery connection is made/broken.

[RBFD415]

"Well this is certainly an unusual problem. It would be interesting to diagnose but the details are still a bit sketchy."

I'm so happy to have a new and unusual problem with a Vision! Got to make you laugh! (I mean that in a good way!)

"Just to clarify, With the main key switch plug disconnected, you still have lights and the starter turns and the engine will fire?"

This statement is TRUE! THE SWITCH IS disconnected.

Would the other handlebar switches also come into the headlight bucket and into junctions that can be unplugged?

With the holiday- I didn't touch the bike since Friday. It occurred to me that of the three wires coming into the ignition switch junction- only one should have power. Given the situation- if I check with a meter there is in all likelihood a second one is now hot as well (backfeeding)? I will check Monday. I have the factory Vision manual- I don't see mention of it- but is there an ignition relay? Could the relay be malfunctioning?

I can't thank all of you enough for your thoughts and insight! Please keep them coming!

[The Prophet of Doom]

There's no ignition relay.  Turning the switch livens up the brown wire circuit from the red wire circuit.

[Rikugun]

Doug, checking the wires coming into the switch for power wouldn't hurt. Only the red should have power. As POD stated, the red powers the brown (with key ON) which in turn powers red/white for the ignition. Also as POD stated, there is no ignition relay per se but there is a starting circuit cut-off and side stand relay (located behind the TCI) that also have red/white wires going to them. There is a diode or two as part of those circuits as well.

It would be helpful if we knew of mods you've made like upgraded fuse block, aux lights, horn etc. I saw back in 2006 you had a problem with the tach, temp gage and turn signals not working. There was no resolution posted for that problem. How was that resolved? Also, in 2015 you expressed interest in hiding a micro switch to control ignition. Did you?

It would also be very helpful to meticulously list everything that works with the hey switch plugged in but turned off, and the key switch unplugged. Turn signals, headlight, tail & brake light, horn, dash lights, starter - everything.

[RBFD415]

I didn't replace the fuse block, instead I've been replacing individual fuse holders (with stand alone fuse holders) as they fail. I did express interest in doing away with the switch altogether- ironically asking about it- however I never did pursue that option.

I have no modifications to the bikes wiring other than a fuse or 2.

So you have a bietter idea of what took place- I rolled the bike out one night thinking I was just going to do a few miles to exercise it. I was so casual about it I actually forgot my cell phone at home. When I was several towns away from home the bike started losing power and then sputtered out completely. I was in residential neighborhood and ended up pushing the bike for over a mile to were I knew there was a safe lot to leave it parked. Having no phone- I had no way to call for help. When I started walking home I eventually saw a police officer I knew who gave me a ride. I got a ride back latter on with some fuel & the bike did start- but barely ran. I nursed it home. To my amazement- I turned the key off and the bike kept running! This was the first time it ever happened. When I took the carbs apart the next day they were completely fouled which lead me to do the tear down and rebuild over the winter. I pulled the battery and the bike was sitting till the other day. The break down and stalling that night may in all likelihood have nothing to do with the ignition switch issue, or not? Stranger things have happened!

[RBFD415]

Thanks to Rikugun for poking me along- after the last post of his it occurred to me to look closely at the fuse holders. The fault was my own for sloppy workmanship. I left a small loop of wire on the headlight circuit fuse. It would seem this loop was pinched against the frame. Looking at the attached picture you will notice the wire is flat where it was caught and an incredibly small dark dot- about the size of a pinhead. When the wire was moved the problem stopped. There is a small area of frame with disturbed paint where the wire sat.

The quick answer seems obvious- a short to ground on the headlight circuit. However.........it is curious that it occurred on the fused side of the wire? Why didn't the fuse react? Also given the amount of the rub through- which is to say very little- there must have been an incredible amount of resistance in the connection?!

By eyeballing it- the wire only seems to have a dirty smudge spot- no bare wire is visible. And of course- the ignition was hot via a reverse path via chassis ground?

Bike is running- now to sort out the carbs after rebuild!

[fret not]

WAY TO GO!  Persistence pays off. :police:

[Rikugun]

Whew! I'm glad you figured it out 'cause I wasn't looking forward to pouring through the wiring diagram searching for possible faults.  :)

The quick answer seems obvious- a short to ground on the headlight circuit. However.........it is curious that it occurred on the fused side of the wire? Why didn't the fuse react?

Perhaps that tiny pinhole "leak" wasn't sufficient to carry enough amps to blow the fuse.