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Part swapping 400 and 550

Started by pinholenz, July 05, 2017, 01:23:47 AM

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pinholenz

About 10 years ago there was detailed discussion here about differences between the 400 and 550 - mostly focused on engine, carbs, gearboxes, discs etc.

I have a 400 as a parts bike.  I have dropped off the 400  Swing Arm to have it powder coated and intend to swap it into the 550 with the 550 running gear. Has anyone had any problems doing this?

I am not intending to remove the bearing in the drive shaft during the powder-coating. I figure that if I remove all the grease and oil before hand and then replace it afterwards I should be OK. OK?

Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

The Prophet of Doom

My 550 is sporting a XZ400 swingarm... Same part number.  I did have to change the shims though.


I had mine powder coated - Despite packing the entire inside with newspaper first the bearing came back full of abrasive it took several hours to flush it before I could re-pack with moly grease.  No harm done, but if I did it again I'd put a LOT of effort in sealing it up


Other than that, there's no issue heating that bearing to 200C - it had no plastic seals in it

iain

Talking about swingarms are you going to replace the bearings ,,the reason I ask is,, when i replaced mine there was still a small amount of movement,,, there must be a better way???

Iain
NZ

pinholenz

Thanks for the heads-up POD. Noted. I'll have to get my head around how to seal the shaft tube - I would have done the same as you. I like the sound of silicone plugs that some powder coaters talk about for blocking blind threads,caliper pistons etc. I'll see what I can find.

I am learning about shims on the swing arm for the first time. I presume that you would 1. clamp the shims in place on the frame with the pivot arm in place, and then measure across the total width. Then 2. Measure the space between the swing arm frame legs. Then 3. adjust the thickness of the thrust washer shims until the difference between the pivot arm plus thrust washers/shims is 0.1 - 0.3mm less than the width of the swing arm legs.?

BTW did you powder coat the faces where the swing arm meets the thrust washers, or did you have bare metal faces?.

Iain, I had wondered about replacing the swing arm bearings. If there is no play when I have cleaned them out and repacked them, I will leave well enough alone. There is no wear on the pivot arm from the 400 so I have a good starting point but I haven't dismantled the 550 yet and not sure what I will find.

If I do replace the bearings and there is some play, I guess that the pivot shaft will have to be built up and then ground down to fit. I imagine a camshaft engineer could do that. I'm not racing, but I'd like to know that the swing arm geometry is relatively stable so that I am entirely to blame for my poor riding....


Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

fret not

It appears that all the swing arm pivot parts are available except for the big bolt that holds it all together.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

The Prophet of Doom

Quote from: pinholenz on July 06, 2017, 07:01:08 AM
Thanks for the heads-up POD. Noted. I'll have to get my head around how to seal the shaft tube - I would have done the same as you. I like the sound of silicone plugs that some powder coaters talk about for blocking blind threads,caliper pistons etc. I'll see what I can find.

I am learning about shims on the swing arm for the first time. I presume that you would 1. clamp the shims in place on the frame with the pivot arm in place, and then measure across the total width. Then 2. Measure the space between the swing arm frame legs. Then 3. adjust the thickness of the thrust washer shims until the difference between the pivot arm plus thrust washers/shims is 0.1 - 0.3mm less than the width of the swing arm legs.?

BTW did you powder coat the faces where the swing arm meets the thrust washers, or did you have bare metal faces?.

Iain, I had wondered about replacing the swing arm bearings. If there is no play when I have cleaned them out and repacked them, I will leave well enough alone. There is no wear on the pivot arm from the 400 so I have a good starting point but I haven't dismantled the 550 yet and not sure what I will find.

If I do replace the bearings and there is some play, I guess that the pivot shaft will have to be built up and then ground down to fit. I imagine a camshaft engineer could do that. I'm not racing, but I'd like to know that the swing arm geometry is relatively stable so that I am entirely to blame for my poor riding....
I don't think you'll find silicone plugs big enough for the tube.  i'd just tape that bearing well with heatproof tape.  The high pressure blasting is the hardest to avoid leaking.


I can't remember the exact measurement procedure - it was a while ago, but it's just what it says in Haynes - I did coat the faces, so I guess that makes the swingarm legs 0.1 or 0.2mm wider than with paint.


I was surprised at the lack of wear after 60,000 km.   My bearings seemed OK (though a little rusty) but I replaced them anyway.  No detectable slop at the shaft, but you can still see some movement at the wheel  It made a big improvement to the steering but could surely be better. 


Iain is hinting that he wants bronze bushings instead of needle bearings.  According to my notes, spec is 24 x 31 x 28.  That's not a standard metric size so it would be hard to find generic bronze bushings.  I've not measured, but I have read that RD350 bearings are the same size and there are plenty of sites selling bronze bushings for that bike.  They have a hat that may need to be trimmed off to fit flush on the XZ (or perhaps it could substitute for the thrust washer).

pinholenz

I have replaced the swing arm bearings, got the swing arm powdercoated etc.

I am surprised at the amount of wear on the  swing arm thrust washers. Both my 550 and the 400 parts bike have less than 50K Km on them, yet there is quite a bit of wear on one side of each thrust washer. If I turn them over I will have 100% unworn face against the bearing. The overall thickness will still be the same but the cap side have about 20% of part  of the face with wear.  Obviously if I need to skim the thrust washers I will take it off the worn side.

Sound like a plan? I will be putting a smear of moly grease on the faces when I re-assemble.
Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

Walt_M.

I suppose I should be surprised at the wear but it would appear that few adhere to the lubrication intervals in the manual. And, if the street bikes get the same grease as the motocross bikes they need grease long before 50K km. I have owned several YZs over the years and, following dealer advice, disassembled and regreased all the swingarm and linkage pivots and the steering head before riding.I never did it and thought it was a waste of time. 
Whale oil beef hooked!