Author Topic: Wire Wheels for a Vision  (Read 254 times)

artbone

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Wire Wheels for a Vision
« on: July 08, 2017, 01:55:53 PM »
Has anyone on ROV attempted to convert their bike to wire wheels? I've been looking at various dual-sports and I think a Vision with wires would look great, particularly if you went with gold rims. I looked at a Yamaha XS650 and the front looks like a "maybe" but, of course the rear is a chain drive so there would be considerable machine work to make that work but if I can't do it I know several people who can.

I can't think of any shaft drive bike with wires. Maybe Moto Guzzi. New BMWs but they're too big. Some old BMWs but they would be hard to find.

Someone give me some ideas.
Art Bone

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ProphetOfDoom

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2017, 05:46:47 PM »
The 84 Virago 700/750 had a spoke option, and the 98 Virago 1100 Australasian model. Both shafties.


Rim size aside(15"/19"), they are not direct swaps - I made some brief notes here
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=15327.msg140518#msg140518


The XZ splines are bolt attached, so they should be able to be swapped to most wheels with some machine work

George R. Young

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2017, 06:23:47 PM »
Wire wheels imply tubes which imply blowouts if you get a puncture.

turbosteve84

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2017, 09:20:13 AM »
In The States, the 1984 Virago XV700 LC and the 1985 XV700 N (Harley tariff beaters) have a rear wire wheel. Virago Café builders are scooping them up as I write this, so prices are high -- if you can find one.

Steve
« Last Edit: July 09, 2017, 09:24:33 AM by turbosteve84 »
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fret not

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2017, 01:11:54 PM »
So, it seems that in order to facilitate wire spoke wheels with appropriate rim sizes one would need the hubs from said models and order rims and spokes from some supplier like Buchanan.
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artbone

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2017, 02:41:39 PM »
Thanks for that info. I'll start looking. I have no problem relacing the rear wheel. I did that for a living back in the 70s. I think I'll start on ebay then see if there's a Varago forum. Surely there is; there's a forum for everything.
Art Bone

'83 Yamaha Vision in the Classic Black and Gold  Running
'82 Yamaha Vision Running
'74 Norton Fastback - Colorado Norton Works #26  Running
'73 Norton Interstate  Running
'75 Triumph T 160  Running
'62 Harley Davidson Vintage Racer
'61 Sears Puch  Running
'15 Triumph Scrambler
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94 Kawasaki KLR 650

artbone

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2017, 02:46:12 PM »
Wire wheels imply tubes which imply blowouts if you get a puncture.

I've had tube type tires on the majority of motorcycle I've owned in my life and my '17 Africa Twin and my '15 Triumph Scrambler both have tube type tires. I've had many flat tires but never a blowout on a motorcycle in 60 years of riding.
Art Bone

'83 Yamaha Vision in the Classic Black and Gold  Running
'82 Yamaha Vision Running
'74 Norton Fastback - Colorado Norton Works #26  Running
'73 Norton Interstate  Running
'75 Triumph T 160  Running
'62 Harley Davidson Vintage Racer
'61 Sears Puch  Running
'15 Triumph Scrambler
'17 Honda Africa Twin
94 Kawasaki KLR 650

Ron_McCoy

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2017, 07:57:52 PM »
Superfly had a set of spoked wheels for his Vision, 18 inch front and rear, but he hasn't been active for quite some time.

fret not

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2017, 10:09:00 PM »
I suppose I don't get it, but what is the attraction of wire spoke wheels over cast wheels?   ???
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Walt_M.

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2017, 03:32:17 AM »
I guess it is an appearance issue. Some want the look of wire spokes and some couldn't care less. Remember,  motorcycles are for individuals who want something different.
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artbone

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2017, 06:55:38 AM »
I suppose I don't get it, but what is the attraction of wire spoke wheels over cast wheels?   ???

What Walt said. I just like the look of wire wheels on scramblers and dual-sports and they're different than what comes on the bike. If they come with wire wheels I would probably be looking for some sort of cast wheel to put on it or changing the rims from chrome to anodized aluminum. I've got an 83 that is 100% stock. I want my 82 to be custom but everyone is doing bobber, cafe racer, stuff. I want to do something that hasn't been done. This forum has been a great resource for that.
Art Bone

'83 Yamaha Vision in the Classic Black and Gold  Running
'82 Yamaha Vision Running
'74 Norton Fastback - Colorado Norton Works #26  Running
'73 Norton Interstate  Running
'75 Triumph T 160  Running
'62 Harley Davidson Vintage Racer
'61 Sears Puch  Running
'15 Triumph Scrambler
'17 Honda Africa Twin
94 Kawasaki KLR 650

turbosteve84

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2017, 07:46:31 AM »
...and, they're lighter. Much lighter.

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ProphetOfDoom

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2017, 01:52:34 AM »
I suppose I don't get it, but what is the attraction of wire spoke wheels over cast wheels?   ???
I want to do something that hasn't been done. This forum has been a great resource for that.
A most worthy endeavour.  On my post HERE is a list of every mod I can think of.  Most have been done at least one - but not all, and certainly not all together.


Don't know if you've seen it , but my favourite xz 550 mod bike by far is the Impossible Dream - Katakura XZR751G which is neither bobber nor cafe, but still has some old world charm. 


English translation in RoV Newsletter #24
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 01:55:44 AM by ProphetOfDoom »

artbone

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2017, 06:46:33 AM »
The Impossible Dream bike is nice but is it really a Vision? I don't see much Vision except the motor. I really like the way the stock bike handles. On my bike I'm going to lighten it as much as I can, change the exhaust system, but keep the handling the same. These bikes were really fast race bikes back in the day. At the Nelson Ledges 24 hour endurance race in 1983 it started raining as we lined up for the start. The Team Good Times Vision led the race for the next 12 hours against a field that included the Team Hammer 1200 Suzuki in a Mirawaki frame. It never got passed until the track dried out.

Tell me about the Lifepo battery. I've been using Shorai batteries but I fell out of love with them after my friend had one melt in his BMW.

How did you racing venture go? Did you have fun? I didn't start racing until I was over 40 and I was never very good but we sure had a lot of fun. When I told my friend Buzz, who had been racing for years, that I was going racing he said, "You'll learn more about motorcycles in 30 minutes on a racetrack than you will in 30 years riding on the street and, if you're lucky, you'll learn something about yourself."
Art Bone

'83 Yamaha Vision in the Classic Black and Gold  Running
'82 Yamaha Vision Running
'74 Norton Fastback - Colorado Norton Works #26  Running
'73 Norton Interstate  Running
'75 Triumph T 160  Running
'62 Harley Davidson Vintage Racer
'61 Sears Puch  Running
'15 Triumph Scrambler
'17 Honda Africa Twin
94 Kawasaki KLR 650

QBS

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2017, 05:02:58 PM »
Just read the Impossible Dream report.  Firstly: the bike is absolutely not a Vision, it is a Vision engine powered special.  Secondly: it is extremely well designed and highly developed.  Thirdly: it is certainly a Ducati fighter.

In this discussion please remember that the Vision was never meant to be a sport/race bike, but rather, at least regarding the '83, a mid displacement Sport Touring bike capable of effortless high speed long distance travel very much in the same vein as the BMW R100rs.  The apparently misunderstood application of shaft drive is one of the major contributing factors to the Visions' touring excellence.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 08:33:38 PM by QBS »

artbone

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2017, 07:55:14 AM »
I rode my 83 to Daytona from Atlanta several years and it makes a very nice touring bike. Daytona was the first week of March back then and one year it started snowing just past Macon and snowed all the way to the GA-FL line. The heat vents on the little Vision were very welcome. For an endurance race bike the shaft drive made perfect sense. One more thing not to worry about.
Art Bone

'83 Yamaha Vision in the Classic Black and Gold  Running
'82 Yamaha Vision Running
'74 Norton Fastback - Colorado Norton Works #26  Running
'73 Norton Interstate  Running
'75 Triumph T 160  Running
'62 Harley Davidson Vintage Racer
'61 Sears Puch  Running
'15 Triumph Scrambler
'17 Honda Africa Twin
94 Kawasaki KLR 650

pinholenz

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2017, 05:46:44 AM »
POD, many thanks to the link to the Impossible Dream. A fascinating article and high praise for the guts of our power plants. And I was intrigued to see that this machine raced against our Britten's as well as the Ducatis achieving a respectable 4th.

No wire wheels though.

The XZ550's do deserve greater cult status and (heaven forbid) better market prices to reflect all your investment in them. Maybe in another 20 years?
Only one '82.5  eXtreme Zen 550

artbone

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2017, 03:26:41 PM »
The 84 Virago 700/750 had a spoke option, and the 98 Virago 1100 Australasian model. Both shafties.


Rim size aside(15"/19"), they are not direct swaps - I made some brief notes here
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=15327.msg140518#msg140518


The XZ splines are bolt attached, so they should be able to be swapped to most wheels with some machine work

POD, I've found a set of wheels and I'm trying to buy the other parts: rear brake, axles and nuts, etc but I thought I would ask before I pulled the trigger on the sale. Do you think this is a feasible swap? I plan to replace both rims with 18" rims and use stock Vision size tires. I couldn't tell from your notes but will I have to remove the ring gear to get the wheel on or did you have to do that because of the size of the 16" tire?
Art Bone

'83 Yamaha Vision in the Classic Black and Gold  Running
'82 Yamaha Vision Running
'74 Norton Fastback - Colorado Norton Works #26  Running
'73 Norton Interstate  Running
'75 Triumph T 160  Running
'62 Harley Davidson Vintage Racer
'61 Sears Puch  Running
'15 Triumph Scrambler
'17 Honda Africa Twin
94 Kawasaki KLR 650

ProphetOfDoom

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2017, 03:07:30 AM »
I only know about the Virago.  Mine were off a 700/750C About 1982 I think.

Rear
This is a semi reasonable swap.

The brake is larger than the XZ so it needs a full replacement of pads and cover.  Trouble is, that the wheel and brake will not angle into place - the XZ swingarm is too narrow.  You can get it in by unbolting the Rear transmission - that means draining your transmission oil and undoing 4 bolts each time you want the rear wheel out.

The virago axle is the same diameter as the XZ so use the stock virago bearings and spacer, but the width is different so use the XZ axle.  It needs about 1cm lathed off it.  Not a big deal if you have access to a machine shop.

Viragos come with a variety of splines and with either 5 or 6 bolts.  You need to find a wheel with 5 bolts because you will probably need to swap over the splines.  The virago 545 won't do - I think they are all 6 bolt.  the 5 bolt ones are the same spacing as the xz so an easy swap from the XZ wheel.

Lacing a 18 inch rim would be no problem.  De-lace the wheel, fit it and then drop a plumb bob to draw a centre line on the hub.  The XZ wheel is not on the centreline but about 1cm to the left so there's a bit of leeway there. this will be a custom drilling as the angles will not be the same as anything out there.  An outfit like Buchannans would be your best bet.  If you are doing it I'd recommend alloy rims, not chrome as they are much lighter and easier to maintain.  You will be running a tube, but a tubeless tyre, so you need a tubeless type rim it has a different profile.  Some places will seal up the rim so you can still go tubeless.  I did consider going to 17" front and rear.  Much better rubber options and a sleeker stance but you will need replacement pipes for sure.

If you have a stock exhaust setup then you are limited to a 120 tyre size.  With a predator, Spec2, Possibly Macs, then you can go up a size or two.  But you will need to measure the actual tyre to be sure.  The rim you will need to order to suit the tyre size.

If you do up-rate the rear over 120 then you need to increase the front to match.  The front will stand a 100, or a 110 at a push, but will need some minor mods to the front fender for clearance.  A 120 would need a full new fender and fender mount (and a wider rim I think) but would look really cool.


Front
This is a somewhat harder swap.  Virago fronts come in either single or dual rotor versions.  I have both because I bought single disk by accident and have only ever tried to fit-up the dual disk version.  There's no way I want to de-rate my braking.

You need a speedo hub to match the hub - they are completely different setup .  I don't know what the Virago ratio is for the speedo cable, but I suspect the same.  I don't care as mine is a proximity sensor.

The virago wheel with the virago speedo drive take the same axle and will fit with the XZ axle.  You will need to sand down or machine the spacer to get it to sit dead centre,  The main issue with the front is that the brake rotors are spaced a bit wider than on the XZ.  You could put the hub in a lathe and trim off the few mm needed to get the rotors to fit the calipers properly, but that's going to get the calipers dangerously close to the spokes.  Hard to tell without actually building a wheel, but that may require filing a bit of material off the spoke side of the caliper. 

That's about as much as I know.  the only reason I didn't push further is that any change to brakes requires certification - a hassle I could do without.  Lighter spoke wheels would almost certainly improve handling and look massively cooler. 

Good luck
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 03:13:24 AM by ProphetOfDoom »

artbone

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Re: Wire Wheels for a Vision
« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2017, 04:09:58 AM »
Thanks for your insight. That makes it much easier to spend the $500 or so this will cost with no guarantee it will work. The wheels I"m looking at are off an XV700 and have a five hole pattern for the spline in the rear and two disks in the front. I don't have to worry about legal stuff as far as changing the brakes is concerned. It's Mexico. No problemo. They're just happy you've got brakes. No, that's not true. They don't care if you've got brakes or not.

On the rear I thought of making the right side of the swing arm removable. That sounds easier than having to drain the ring gear for a tire change.

On the front I plan to use a GPS speedo so the speedo drive won't be an issue. Lining up the calipers with the disks seems more of a problem but just something I'll have to work out when the time comes. Maybe use the Virago calipers?

As I said, I'm planning the bike to be a dual-sport so massive braking isn't an issue. I'm planning to use some sort of simi- knobby or dual-sport tire and I would like to keep the handling similar to the stock bike so I don't want to go radically different on tire sizes.

This is going to be a fun project. It's great to have knowledgeable folks to swap ideas with.
Art Bone

'83 Yamaha Vision in the Classic Black and Gold  Running
'82 Yamaha Vision Running
'74 Norton Fastback - Colorado Norton Works #26  Running
'73 Norton Interstate  Running
'75 Triumph T 160  Running
'62 Harley Davidson Vintage Racer
'61 Sears Puch  Running
'15 Triumph Scrambler
'17 Honda Africa Twin
94 Kawasaki KLR 650