LED headlight anyone?

Started by Rikugun, August 14, 2018, 07:32:11 AM

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Rikugun

Has anyone else investigated replacing the H4 bulb with an LED replacement?  I just installed one last night but did not go for a ride (in the rain) to test the performance. In the garage it seems brighter. If nothing else, It's a brilliant white light in contrast to the halogen's almost yellowish output.

The big news - and the main reason I went this route - is amperage savings.  I needed the electrical power for something else I changed.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

Walt_M.

Good idea. What light are you using? As my headlight is not working, replacing it with an LED seems like a better solution than fixing the old.
Whale oil beef hooked!

Rikugun

This particular one was a set of 2 bulbs I bought for an old Civic with crappy headlights. The cost for 2 was equivalent to one new H4 from Auotzone.  I am trying one on the Vision for reasons - you know, science and stuff. The box is marked "Autofather" with no other data or country of origin markings. No tech data on the box, bulbs, or installation sheet. There is also a note in awkward English informing me of what a smart purchase I made. Boys, this one appears to be pure Chineseum.

What's nice about these is the 3 pronged base is removable. Remove the OEM rubber dust cover and halogen bulb, install the new base and OEM lock ring, fit the rubber dust cover, and twist the bulb into place. I've seen on You-Tube videos (for bikes and cars) where the dust cover had to be cut to bit around the heat sink/fan assy. but not this one due to the removable base.

I tested it with the bikes battery and test leads - bike not running so nominally 12+ volts and got 2.2 amps low and 3.5 amps high beam. What's odd is the H4 bulb (55/60) pulled 6.6 and 7.3 which is quite a bit more than the power formula (A x I = W) had me thinking it would be. Not sure what to make out of that. Any ideas?
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

skucera

#3
One of the young guys at work has an SV650, and he recently mounted an LED headlight with two projector lenses in it.  It's a 7" round headlight, but it looks pretty impressive.  I have no idea if it lights the road better than my old 5x7" halogen, but at least it should use a lot less power, and save his stator.  It's got me looking for a 5x7 version of the same sort of LED headlight for my motorcycle.

Scott

Rikugun

Quote from: skucera on August 16, 2018, 12:40:34 AM
I have no idea if it lights the road better than my old 5x7" halogen, but at least it should use a lot less power, and save his stator. 
That's what prompted me to make the change although some would argue this point. I also changed the two 1157 taillight bulbs with LED's. My dash mounted volt gage used to dip noticeably with brake application but no perceivable movement with the LED's. People who have followed me on rides comment on how bright it is too - all the better to be seen. The 1157 bulbs are 32 watts a piece (if memory serves) on the brake filament whereas the LED's are 1.2.


Quote from: skucera on August 16, 2018, 12:40:34 AM
It's got me looking for a 5x7 version of the same sort of LED headlight for my motorcycle.

I might not be understanding you correctly but the LED light I'm using is not a sealed beam. It is a bulb that replaces the halogen bulb and fits in the back of the original glass headlight assembly.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

auto

I put one in that I got from ADVmonster. Single unit with it's own cooling fan.Called the native H4.Works great,but I did have to slightly grind the opening a bit for it to fit/pass through the opening. All the tabs fit correctly.Right now there on sale for $40.

skucera

Quote from: Rikugun on August 16, 2018, 07:37:28 AM
I might not be understanding you correctly but the LED light I'm using is not a sealed beam. It is a bulb that replaces the halogen bulb and fits in the back of the original glass headlight assembly.

You've got a great solution.  I was clear on what you did.  I was just wanting to share what my coworker did with his bike.

"Sealed beam" might be a quaint choice of words on my part, but there are solid state light replacements that don't reuse the motorcycle's original lens and reflector, and don't take an LED equivalent of an H4 bulb.  The guy at work used one of these drop-in 7" round LED "sealed beam" headlights, and I think he said it has 11 LED's in it... three low beams (one from a projector lens, and two others from barrel-shaped lenses on either side), three high beams (same sort of arrangement, with another projector lens and two more barrel-shaped lenses on either side), and four more yellow DRL's and one that is a backlit "LED" display in red at the bottom of the array.  He said it has an aluminum heat sink on the back, and pigtails for the H4 plug.

Anyway, I think I beat this to death.  :)

Scott

The Prophet of Doom

I was a fairly early adopter of LED and put an entire 7" round LED on my bike.  Chinese copy of the JW Speaker Unit fitted to the modern Brough Superior.  It was nice and white - seemed well brighter but there was no penetration when pointing down the road.  I ended up scrapping it and going back to Halogen.  I'd love to get a genuine JW Speaker unit - the reviews are excellent but it's hard to get good pricing on the Left Hand Traffic versions - they have an assymetric pattern so the USA models are no good here.

Rikugun

I went for a day-time ride this past weekend and followed for a bit. The front rider commented that my headlight was much brighter and easy to spot in his mirrors. POD, to your point regarding night performance, I still haven't ridden at night with it yet.

skucera - I get it now, thanks for the clarification.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

Rikugun

So I finally did the first round of night performance tests with the LED light - sort of.

Since the set was originally intended for my Civic, I installed the remaining bulb on the right side. Same easy installation and the light is a brilliant white relative to the H4. Driving around town it was difficult to get a good comparison due to all the street lights. I can say the beams are very different. The halogen has a bright center section whereas the LED has a much broader beam. I think it would illuminate deer lurking alongside the road at night better.

With the car facing out the driveway and lighting up the neighbors house and a 6' fence, I used a floor mat to alternately block first the LED and then the halogen. From this test alone (albeit at an intermediate distance) I'm inclined to favor the LED. My plan is to do the same test when I travel some "country roads" when visiting family in that part of the state. I hope to get a better idea of how far the two light types project at a distance.

One thing I was unaware of until installing one of the bulbs in the car was all the FM radio stations went away - save one whose antenna is very close. Apparently this is a thing. I found many articles  addressing the issue. Here's one:
https://ledrider.com/led-auxiliary-lights-and-fm-radio-interference/
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

fret not

Something to be aware of is LEDs don't put out light the same way that incandescent bulbs do, and consequently they need very specific reflectors and lenses to "aim" the light beam.  Basically the LED "replacement" lights need to be engineered to your specific application.  If you just buy a replacement LED 'bulb' it is very likely to disappoint with it's beam and penetration into the dark.  You need either a unit  purposely designed for your specific lens/reflector set up, or a complete head light with all this already figured out and designed into the unit.  There is a fellow in Idaho that makes such things but they are not inexpensive.  (search Idabiker)
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

Rikugun

That's a good point. This has been an education for me having never looked into headlight applications before. The technology seems to be there but the manufacturing quality is suspect. It's all over the spectrum. A good deal of the product seems to come from one region of the world so there's that.

Apparently even when you buy an LED light assembly with presumably the requisite reflectors (as POD did), there is no guarantee it will perform well.

For my purposes on a motorcycle there are several things to consider. I will never willingly ride at night again. Those days are behind me. That's not to say I won't get caught in the position of having to ride home in the dark. That's happened once since I re-entered the sport in 2007 BTW. What I'm after is to be seen better and less stress on a vintage charging system. If night illumination is adequate, I'm OK with that based on the frequency that aspect will be necessary.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

George R. Young

Quote from: Rikugun on August 24, 2018, 07:15:31 AM
. . . What I'm after is to be seen better and less stress on a vintage charging system. . .
One little irony for you. The Vision has a permanent magnet stator and a shunt regulator/rectifier. If you reduce the current load (e.g. LED instead of halogen), the current is delivered to the regulator/rectifier, heating it up more, and the current in the stator does not change (i.e. full output all the time).

The only way around that is a series regulator.

Rikugun

Thank you George, I've heard that argument here before.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

motoracer8

I don't want to start any arguments. but...When you turn on the lights is does put more of a load on the charging system. I've had a headlamp switch on my Vision for 30 years. When at idle and the lights are switched on the RPM is reduced about 150 RPM and voltage at the battery increases about one and a half volts. The small brown wire from the OE regulator goes to the light circuit so when the lights are on it increases the voltage to the system. Since the lights are wired on permanently  the system runs at maxium all the time.  There's no law in California that says one has to have the headlamp on except in certain areas, cars too. So I ride most of the time without the lights on. Maybe that's why my charging system has gone 30 years and 55'000 miles with no issues. I had my first stator fail In April of this year, 35 years old and 55'000 miles. I've had a new OE stator here from when you could still get em from Yamaha. I replaced the stator and replaced the regulator with a SH775 regulator from a CanAm. That regulator does not have the little brown wire because it senses the load increase when you turn on the lights and automatically increases the voltage the same one and a half volts the OE regulator did.  It runs much cooler as you can touch it when in operation where the OE regulator would burn your fingers. It would be nice if the new parts go another 55'000 miles.   
83 Vision and 11 others, Japanese, German and British

Rikugun

#15
Thanks for weighing in motoracer8. Some good points there from real life observations. I'd be curious to learn what solution George has for his understanding of the OEM setup.

Before my '82 GPz was taken out by a left turning motorist, it too had in excess of 50,000 miles with the original stator and R/R. For what it's worth, that's air an cooled motor and stator under a dry cover. Being of similar vintage and having a brown sensing wire I'd guess it was similar technology to the OEM Vision R/R? I can't help but wonder if the short lived XZ charging components had less to do with the technology then and more to do with it's particular execution.

Regarding my XZ, I don't have the original R/R either so I can't speak to it's attributes and the function of the brown wire. I do have a light switch installed though. In my state it must be on when riding but there are times when I like having control over it's operation so I switched it. While I was at it, I bypassed the wiring that goes through the right hand handlebar switch - the less wire and connections between the battery and the light the better.

My light switch - isn't it cute?  :)
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan

motoracer8

 I suppose it's possible that a air cooled stator could run some cooler. Hot oil is not the best coolant and not much of it at that. The Yamaha Venture from the same era cooked stator coils too. I remember Suzukis from the early 80's were hard no stators as well. Yamaha tried to solve the stator issue on the Venture by drilling a very small hole in the bolt that holds the flywheel on. I don't remember if it helped or not?? Once again, hot oil and not much of it..  BMW in the early 80's had the same issue when the headlamps were permanently on. Batteries too low to start the engine. Everyone had to increase generator output, more heat and generator failures. I have a 1975 BMW R75/6, Bought new in 75. It has 175,000 miles on it with its original charging system because it has a headlight switch and a air cooled generator with some ventilation.  I service a friends 82 Yamaha 650 Seca. It has 61,000 miles on it and it's original charging system. It has a brush type air cooled generator. It's called a excited field type generator just like the ones on cars. They put out what is necessary to keep the battery charged so there's no excess heat.  Charging systems on motorcycles have improved a great deal in the last few years. With fuel injection, radios and other loads they had to improve. A Goldwing has a 90 amp alternator, as much as some cars.
   
83 Vision and 11 others, Japanese, German and British

George R. Young


The Prophet of Doom

#18
The idea that the stator with a shunt regulator puts out max power at all times is a complete myth.  If you short a battery, you get full power - and lots of sparks.  Induction coils are not the same.

Power is related to resistance, and the resistance of a shunted coil is negligible.  If you don't believe me start your bike and then turn on the lights.  The revs will dip, which is the back emf sucking more horsepower as the load (resistance) increases.  Shorting stator coils yields the same behavior of magnetic drag (magnetic reluctance) as open circuiting them.  No Power is consumed and no drag is felt.

The heat generated in the stator is largely caused by high resistance during the switching operation (around about 70 watts) - lower in Mosfet regulators because they switch faster and are more efficient.  There is some residual voltage drop with both devices, but it's very low.
 
If this was not the case then the stator would burn out in a day.  The wire is thin and it can't sustain full power for all that long.  The problem is when circuit resistance goes very high.  For example the connector is dirty, the regulator has failed, your battery is dead flat (or worse internally shorted), or your ignition switch is dirty.  The high resistance is a high load - you really do start to produce full power, the high resistance component and the stator and go all crispy.  These issues will be exactly the same with a series regulator, so while a series reg will be more accurate they are not a panacea for crispy stators because the problems are caused elsewhere.   

Rikugun

A well considered and presented argument. Thanks for contributing POD. I'm still using a MOSFET but was considering going with a series type - until now, Doesn't seem it's worth the effort or expense over what I currently have.

QuoteI suppose it's possible that a air cooled stator could run some cooler. Hot oil is not the best coolant and not much of it at that. The Yamaha Venture from the same era cooked stator coils too. I remember Suzukis from the early 80's were hard no stators as well.
The early 80's Suzuki's were air cooled engine w/dry stator covers. Maybe dry vs. wet had less to do with the longevity than the execution of the particular models components.
It is far better to grasp the universe as it really is then to persist in delusion, however satisfying or reassuring.  Carl Sagan