Author Topic: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...  (Read 1342 times)

injuhneer

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  • Mike O. - SE AZ, USA
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Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« on: June 27, 2019, 08:55:32 AM »
Hello All,

My name is Mike. I live in SE Arizona. I have recently acquired a pair (one running, one parts) of '82 Visions.

The back story is that these were father/son motorcycles. It also appears that Dad did a much better job of maintaining his Vision than the son did. The son's bike is the parts machine. It is complete enough that it may be possible to put it back on the road of make a custom out of it.

First however the better of the two will receive thorough service and new tires to put it on the road.

Regards,
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 11:53:21 PM by injuhneer »
- Mike O
injuhneer
1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ
--------------------------------------------
1975 Honda ST-90 (164cc stroker)
1972 Kaw GT4R
1978 Kaw KM100
2008 KTM 450 SXF

fret not

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Re: Joinging the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2019, 04:58:02 PM »
Hi Mike, and welcome to the 'affliction'.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

injuhneer

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Re: Joinging the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2019, 11:52:39 PM »
Thank you.

I have been reading a number of posts regarding some common issues. Some of them are quite old. I asked in one about posting to old threads but hadn't received any guidance.

In particular I have been reading the posts on stability and handling as well as those concerning the stator. I am new to this model of Yamaha so I hope I can contribute.

Priors include Seca 550, multiple Seca Turbos, XS 650, XT600, TT600, VMax. Also a smattering of Kawasakis, KTM and Hondas.
- Mike O
injuhneer
1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ
--------------------------------------------
1975 Honda ST-90 (164cc stroker)
1972 Kaw GT4R
1978 Kaw KM100
2008 KTM 450 SXF

Walt_M.

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2019, 07:50:13 AM »
Welcome to the dwindling band. New ideas are appreciated but some old things must be addressed. Starter seals, stator and R/R, rear brake stay bolts and starter clutch come to mind.
As for handling, IMHO, the best thing I've done for mine is Continental Classic Attack radials,  90/90 front, 120/90 rear.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 07:58:34 AM by Walt_M. »
Whale oil beef hooked!

injuhneer

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2019, 09:53:13 AM »
Thanks Walt.

I suppose then I will add to the threads that exist rather than re-inventing the topics.

Also in response to the Newbie post I added my location to the signature block. I couldn't get the map in the forum interface to cooperate.

« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 09:58:40 AM by injuhneer »
- Mike O
injuhneer
1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ
--------------------------------------------
1975 Honda ST-90 (164cc stroker)
1972 Kaw GT4R
1978 Kaw KM100
2008 KTM 450 SXF

injuhneer

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2019, 03:00:57 PM »
SNIP

As for handling, IMHO, the best thing I've done for mine is Continental Classic Attack radials,  90/90 front, 120/90 rear.

I have been unable to find a reference to rotating/reversing the fork lowers. Putting the axle in front of the tube centerline to change trail is OEM on some bikes. I am wondering if someone has done that before.

- Mike O
injuhneer
1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ
--------------------------------------------
1975 Honda ST-90 (164cc stroker)
1972 Kaw GT4R
1978 Kaw KM100
2008 KTM 450 SXF

jefferson

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2019, 06:28:19 PM »
My suggestion would be a fork brace and putting larger bolts through the bolt in frame piece on the right. It's well worth the trouble and not too hard. Better shock, but then you're talking some bucks.

Walt_M.

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2019, 06:55:51 PM »
Please don't reverse the forks. Although it might look more pleasing,  it is a drastic reduction in trail and will cause serious stability problems.
Whale oil beef hooked!

injuhneer

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2019, 08:24:17 PM »
Please don't reverse the forks. Although it might look more pleasing,  it is a drastic reduction in trail and will cause serious stability problems.

I wasn't really interested in the aesthetic at this point. And I am sure this topic has been beat to death but must have missed the maths in perusing the topic.


- Mike O
injuhneer
1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ
--------------------------------------------
1975 Honda ST-90 (164cc stroker)
1972 Kaw GT4R
1978 Kaw KM100
2008 KTM 450 SXF

fret not

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2019, 12:02:26 AM »
There is a general guide line that says the trail needs to be 'about' 4 inches, plus or minus.  Most modern street motorcycles seem to fit into that range of trail.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

injuhneer

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2019, 12:55:47 AM »
Next item: the starter seal.

the 20x35x6 seal fix seems to be the norm. A real improvement would be to use a Viton seal of the same dimensions. It would last much longer than the nitrile seal.
- Mike O
injuhneer
1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ
--------------------------------------------
1975 Honda ST-90 (164cc stroker)
1972 Kaw GT4R
1978 Kaw KM100
2008 KTM 450 SXF

Prophet Of Doom

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2019, 02:28:49 AM »
I have fork seals from pyramid-parts.com that have lasted over 10 years.  They are relatively inexpensive, but no idea what they are made of.

injuhneer

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2019, 10:19:49 AM »
I have fork seals from pyramid-parts.com that have lasted over 10 years.  They are relatively inexpensive, but no idea what they are made of.

A lot of seals are typically nitrile (Buna N). The have decent longevity. The seal on the starter is exposed to higher temperatures and constant crankcase pulsations. So the nitrile seal is flexed constantly (wear and fatigue) and cooked (heat cycling). Viton is a lot tougher and would be a good choice for the starter seal.

Most high duty cycle seals are Viton or EPDM these days.

HTH.
- Mike O
injuhneer
1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ
--------------------------------------------
1975 Honda ST-90 (164cc stroker)
1972 Kaw GT4R
1978 Kaw KM100
2008 KTM 450 SXF

injuhneer

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2019, 07:34:21 AM »
My suggestion would be a fork brace and putting larger bolts through the bolt in frame piece on the right. It's well worth the trouble and not too hard. Better shock, but then you're talking some bucks.

I am finishing up with a carb clean/rebuild. Once it is running I'll change the tires and take it for a spin. I have been reading the threads on the various rear shockl swaps as well.
- Mike O
injuhneer
1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ
--------------------------------------------
1975 Honda ST-90 (164cc stroker)
1972 Kaw GT4R
1978 Kaw KM100
2008 KTM 450 SXF

MikeScoot

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2020, 04:09:02 AM »
Good score with those bikes, Mike.
We've had a few useful exchanges of info (thanks), but I didn't realise you were almost as new to XZ's as I am.

The bike was a great concept and it's a real pity it didn't work out better, in terms of sales and production, than it did.

I'm in a similar boat here, having bought two XZ's only a couple of months ago. Both were real dogs, but one is coming along well - despite a crook motor. Luckily the other - which is slathered in fish oil (?????X$#%@*&#$) and has the WORST electrics nghtmare I have EVER seen on ANY bike - has what seems to be a decent motor.

Good luck with your bikes! Is the #1 bike fully sorted? What is to become of the #2?

Mike
Luther had his dream,
But I've got my Vision.
His got him into strife,
Mine just takes me fishin'.

injuhneer

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2020, 10:35:51 AM »
Bike #1 is sorted and running. I have some concerns about the engine vibration at higher RPM but have no frame of reference for this engine. Otherwise it starts, runs, rides well. All electrics work. The R/R upgrade works nicely. Plenty of juice for the lighting.

The tire combo feels good (Kenda Challenger @ rear and Dunlop D404 on the front). After a bit of riding there is a little oil residue on the fork tubes. I'll try cleaning the seals first. If that doesn't work then replacement is in order.

The bike needs some minor cosmetics but for now that can wait.

The #2 bike has a bent frame.  :-\

It also has hand controls with nice clear lettering. I intend to swap those over to the running bike. I am not sure what to do with it at this point. The #2 bike appears to have been spun out into something. Witness marks on the rear wheel, muffler and bodywork suggest light pole or some such. Up on the center stand the swing-arm is clearly displaced. The damage appears to be at the pivot on the right side. The tail section and swing-arm are bent to the right. Not just a bit but about 60mm. Pulling the tank of and some simple measurement show the split spine at the top (where the carbs are) is no longer square. It is twisted too.



« Last Edit: July 01, 2020, 12:41:40 AM by injuhneer »
- Mike O
injuhneer
1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ
--------------------------------------------
1975 Honda ST-90 (164cc stroker)
1972 Kaw GT4R
1978 Kaw KM100
2008 KTM 450 SXF

MikeScoot

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2020, 11:31:28 PM »
Must have been a pretty big bang!
Re Forks; It would be pretty much just par for the course to change the seals and dust covers. As you probably know, these can wear out pretty quickly.
Luther had his dream,
But I've got my Vision.
His got him into strife,
Mine just takes me fishin'.

fret not

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2020, 02:39:26 AM »
Regarding fork seals leaking, I recall some of the MX guys were using some automatic transmission sealer in the fork oil.   This was in the 70s.  It was difficult to keep seals in those bikes with all the dirt and mud and rocks they went through.  Also found that when the air pressure was let out of the forks the seals would leak, as they needed the pressure to help hold the seals against the fork tube.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

MikeScoot

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2020, 04:00:28 AM »
Yeah, I remember there were some agents that swelled the seals or something.
Re pressure; I fitted a couple of my road bikes with "air caps" found they were pretty cheap and good at stiffening compression and adding a bit of damping to otherwise crappy forks.
Luther had his dream,
But I've got my Vision.
His got him into strife,
Mine just takes me fishin'.

injuhneer

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Re: Joining the ranks of the afflicted...
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2020, 10:57:02 AM »
Wiper type hydraulic seals do rely on the pressure inside a system to hold the seal. Application examples include seals in (power) assisted steering system. The pressure inside exerts force on the seal tightening it against the seal surface. A seal in good condition will continue to contain fluid when the system is off (depressurized/static). Hydraulic cylinder seals work in the same manner.

In forks a little air pressure and the right seal goes a long way toward a good closed system. I was just looking at my bike a few days ago considering the addition of some Schrader valves to to caps.

If I recall correctly some of the Secas(and others) had the tubes connected buy a sealed passage in one the triple clamps. Others had a separate fitting and hose between them.
- Mike O
injuhneer
1982 Yamaha XZ550RJ
--------------------------------------------
1975 Honda ST-90 (164cc stroker)
1972 Kaw GT4R
1978 Kaw KM100
2008 KTM 450 SXF