Author Topic: Vision newbie  (Read 334 times)

DBVision510

  • ROV Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Riders of Vision .net
Vision newbie
« on: January 01, 2020, 10:16:03 PM »
Hello all!
I recently picked up an 83 vision as a winter project bike. it  appears to have carbs off of an 82 and still has the 83 tank and petcock.It wasnít running when purchased, but after lurking around the forum I seem to have made some progress!

I have removed and cleaned the carbs twice and now have the bike firing up and idling. The problem now is that the engine will rev up to about 5k rpm and then just cuts out. If Iím lucky itíll return to idle, but about half the time it just dies. After doing a bit of research Iím pretty sure that the front cylinder isnít firing. Next step will be cutting the Rev limiter wire on the TCI. Put in new plugs and checked the plug wires and coils, everything looked good there.

Looking forward to getting deeper into the project and familiarizing myself with the bike!
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 01:04:51 AM by DBVision510 »

fret not

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 2245
  • Mike Lewis - Grass Valley CA
    • Michael Lewis Instruments
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2020, 02:11:35 AM »
Welcome!  Owning a Vision will make you a better motorcycle owner if you stick with it. :police:
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

jefferson

  • Contributing Member
  • ROV Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
  • Keep them Rollin
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2020, 06:48:01 PM »
Welcome to the forum. I hope we can help you get your bike running well.
Easy way to check cyl firing is to spray some water on the exhaust pipes with a squirt bottle and it will be pretty obvious if one isn't firing. It should sizzle pretty good if it is firing. If you have spark on both cyl's then it is most likely the carb. They are very hard to get clean to the point of running good. Even though the jet has a nice clearly defined hole after cleaning the passageways from the jet to the throat may not be clean.

DBVision510

  • ROV Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Riders of Vision .net
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2020, 12:06:23 PM »
Thanks!
The front cylinder was definitely not firing. Cut the yellow/black wire coming out of the TCI and pulled the plug to confirm that there was a spark. Got her to fire up on both cylinders and rev up nicely. Did this on my lunch break yesterday, when I came back after work I couldnít get her to start up at all.

Will probably dig into the carbs again this weekend. I guess itís a good thing that I really enjoy taking things apart and putting them back together! Still need to pick up a clear in-line fuel filter.

MikeScoot

  • ROV Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
  • NSW/Qld. border, Australialand
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2020, 07:21:24 AM »
Nice to hear about your new project. I have one too - a new project XZ550. The tube that comes with WD40 cans works well (when attached to carb. cleaner cans) to spray through those internal passages in the carbs.  My carbs were incredibly crudded and it took a long time to clean all the crup out, free the needles, 'ezy-out' a couple of screws, etc etc. Float levels were out to blazes too. Haven't run mine yet, and test shows compression is way down in the rear pot - but it hasn't been run for many years so I'm hoping that might get better after a bit of cranking.

Have fun with the bike! They are a really sweet bike! The XZ really stands out as a gem to ride.

Cheers
Luther had his dream,
But I've got my Vision.
His got him into strife,
Mine just takes me fishin'.

WGuaire

  • Contributing Member
  • ROV Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 60
  • Riders of Vision .net
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2020, 09:05:50 AM »
MikeScoot - Yamaha makes a product to get the rings doing what they are supposed to do: namely sealing the cylinder for compression. If they are stuck from non-use itís supposed to free them. I would try Ring Free. It canít hurt anything and it may save you from replacing the rings.
Cheers,
Bill G

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Yamalube-ACC-RNGFR-PL-12-Ring-Additive/dp/B002GU4SN2

fret not

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 2245
  • Mike Lewis - Grass Valley CA
    • Michael Lewis Instruments
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2020, 05:33:29 PM »
Low compression could be something simple and easily remedied, or it could be deep inside.  My first thought is sticky valves due to age and neglect, could be the head gasket leaking, bent or burnt valve(s), holed piston, seized piston/cyl,  but hopefully it is just sticky rings.  I look for and try the easiest and least expensive things first, then go through the list until the problem is cleared. 

There is something about just handling the parts that seems to help put things right.  Many years ago I had a motorcycle as my only transportation, and did all the maintenance myself.  When a problem appeared I would dig into where I thought the issue was, basically find nothing, and reassemble the parts.  Upon restarting the problem often disappeared, so no real understanding of the problem, but a cure of the symptom. 8)
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

Walt_M.

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 2426
  • Hold my beer and watch this!
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2020, 05:48:33 PM »
Don't forget to check valve clearance.
Whale oil beef hooked!

MikeScoot

  • ROV Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
  • NSW/Qld. border, Australialand
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2020, 10:49:32 PM »
@ Fret Not, WGuaire and Walt_M.

   Thanks for your thoughts. I squirted WD40 down the plughole and got a better reading on the guage. I reckon just getting a few bangs happening and a bit of heat generated might do the trick.
   I too have had great success just giving stuff a bit of TLC - heck, I even give my bikes names and talk to them too - especially when I'm trying to do something and they are not co-operating. Talking to them helps me to not get angry or impatient I suppose.
  I'll have a look for that Yammie Ring Free, it sounds like good stuff.
  At the end of the day I don't need the bike for transport and I have another complete spare bike, so if I need to delve into the motor - or swap it with the 'B' bike then I will. Just got to move to a place where I can set up a proper workshop again.

  Pretty happy right now 'cos I just finished firmly installing the rear exhaust 'Y' piece. Mongrel of a design!!! Used a Permatex copper and silicon sealant in there and I hope it stays stuck! Now to get the mufflers and front headers on. Bit tricky for a one man job but I had a dry run yesterday using wires and blocks, so this time around shouldn't take too long.

  I wonder how DBVision is going.
Luther had his dream,
But I've got my Vision.
His got him into strife,
Mine just takes me fishin'.

fret not

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 2245
  • Mike Lewis - Grass Valley CA
    • Michael Lewis Instruments
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2020, 12:34:16 AM »
When you get everything in the exhaust together, loosen everything just enough so you can wiggle stuff; then jack up the muffler against the underside of the engine case, THEN tighten everything.  This is probably the best chance at getting everything to seal.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!

MikeScoot

  • ROV Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 90
  • NSW/Qld. border, Australialand
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2020, 03:43:16 AM »
Thanks, Fret. I did muck around a fair bit to make sure it was all home in the right place. BUT, I jumped the gun a bit because I am still short a 32mmx38mmx30mm gasket for one of the front headers to connect to the mufflers.

Not to worry. I have a few ideas. I plan to form my own gasket. All I have to do is find something with a 38mm ID and run one lap of aluminium (from a can) around its inside, then wrap foil around a 32mm pipe and sandwich silicone/copper exhaust material between the two. Once set it should be easy to remove it from the form. Might wind up being a bit of a messy process though lolololol

EDIT Just have to wait for the silicone to set now, burn the carboard tube (ID37.5mm) from the outside, and slip it off the header with the single layer of foil I wrapped around the header. Might wind up a bit rough and there was plenty of silicone wastage, but I will patch any imperfections with more silicone. Let it have a nice long sleep now.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 05:18:46 AM by MikeScoot »
Luther had his dream,
But I've got my Vision.
His got him into strife,
Mine just takes me fishin'.

DBVision510

  • ROV Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Riders of Vision .net
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2020, 01:04:19 PM »
Will be digging into things this afternoon. I usually have to wait a few days between wrenching sessions as my bike doesnít currently live with me. Small price to pay to be able to keep her in a nice garage!

Iíll report back tonight/tomorrow once I get a chance to take a closer look at things!

DBVision510

  • ROV Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Riders of Vision .net
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2020, 09:08:35 PM »
Alright- got the bike running on both cylinders. Iím thinking there was some gunk somewhere in the carbs. I put a little berrymans in the file line, cranked it over a few times and she fired up! I was able to get it idling pretty smooth, but now the oil light is turning on when the rpms are below about 2k.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2020, 09:32:30 PM by DBVision510 »

jefferson

  • Contributing Member
  • ROV Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
  • Keep them Rollin
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2020, 10:24:16 PM »
If you haven't changed the oil and filter do it now. You might also remove the clutch cover and pull the oil pump to see if the screen is clean or plugged up. You also need to replace the seal in the clutch cover that runs on the end of the crank. It may be hard and not sealing well and thus low oil pressure. Wouldn't hurt to put an actual gauge on it and see just how much oil pressure you have. Might be a bad sender.

DBVision510

  • ROV Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Riders of Vision .net
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2020, 11:10:44 AM »
Thanks Jefferson- The oil and filter were changed about 2 weeks ago. I put in 10w40 per the local Yamaha dealers recommendation. I have read that the thinner oil could potentially be a problem, but I think Iíll crack into the clutch cover next just to make sure Iím covering all my bases. I know that the sender and light can be tested by grounding it to see if it turns on but it there any way to test it to see if it is turning on prematurely?

DBVision510

  • ROV Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Riders of Vision .net
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2020, 07:52:56 PM »
Made it back to the bike today. She fired up right away with no choke, idled smoothly, and the oil pressure light wasnít turning on. After letting it warm up a bit I was feeling pretty good about things and decided to try taking it out around the block. She was running pretty well!

After a bit of riding the oil light would flicker on a bit around 1500 rpm.

She died a couple of times when I let off the throttle, but not every time. There were a couple of times that the bike would rev up to about 4-5k rpm on its own, I was able to calm it down by adjusting the idle speed or turning the bike off entirely and starting up again.

Not surprised that there were a few glitches to work out,, but considering the bike didnít run at all when I bought it Iím feeling pretty good about the progress!

jefferson

  • Contributing Member
  • ROV Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
  • Keep them Rollin
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2020, 08:48:02 PM »
That weight oil isn't really too thin. That's what I ran in mine year round, it was synthetic, though I would still run that weight if it wasn't. The only way to really check is to hook up a mechanical gauge to see what pressure you really have.

DBVision510

  • ROV Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8
  • Riders of Vision .net
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2020, 09:20:12 PM »
Got it.I guess Iíll get to looking for a gauge.

Guzzinerd

  • ROV Junior Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7
  • Riders of Vision .net
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2020, 11:37:55 AM »
I've been using murphy switch guages for oil pressure for years now without any issues.  I also hook up a mini alarm instead of warning light because I'm not always looking down.  You can also adjust the minimum pressure alert which is nice. 

To hook it up, all i do is go down to the local hydraulic supply shop with the original pressure sensor and guage and they make the hose with connectors while i wait for under $20.

https://www.fwmurphy.com/products/gages/20t-25t
« Last Edit: January 07, 2020, 12:01:13 PM by Guzzinerd »

fret not

  • Contributing Member
  • Visionary Expert
  • ****
  • Posts: 2245
  • Mike Lewis - Grass Valley CA
    • Michael Lewis Instruments
Re: Vision newbie
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2020, 01:37:47 AM »
Thanks for that link.  I did not know of these switch gauges.
Retired, on the downhill slide. . . . . . . . still feels like going uphill!