Bike won't start

[dchakrab]

Yeah, i know, has to be most newbie of newbie posting titles...

Anyway, so I have no petcock yet, but I re-liquid-gasketed mine, and it's now leaking a little less. Still too much, but a little less. So i put it back on the tank, and put the tank back on the bike, and put in a little gas.

The gas pours out of the right nozzle, so the fuel supply is supply fuel. The engine, however, won't start. The guy who sold it to me started it just fine, but I can't do it...I tried full, half, and no choke, and nothing works. I smell gas all the time, since I spilled a lot and also had an open contained of it next to me, so I don' t know for sure if i flooded the engine or not.

The engine seems to almost catch a couple of times, and then i get a series of clicks. The clicks also coincide with a slight movement on the tach. What does this mean, and what should I do next? It got more and more frequent, till now the engine seems to try to turn over once, and then goes into click mode.

Horn sounds, and lights go on, so battery hasn't died on me. I tried giving it more gas, less gas, no gas, and pumping gas on and off gently to try and pick it up, but nothing worked.

Ideas?

I'm suspecting, from my readings here, that my tinkering knocked lose some rust and sent it into the carbs, so my next step, possibly, should be a carb cleaning and resetting the float needles? What parts would I need to get for this (if any) and what tools would I need? Any step-by-step info available...I know I posted about this before, but I'm having trouble finding my old threads (did everything make it over when the forums were switched?).

  Thanks,

    Dave.

[ProfessorRex]

The battery is dead or more corectly dieing, there's enough power to light up the lights but not enough to start the engine.  Do you have a meter? Check for the voltage as it sits there, then ignition on, then as you push the starter.  I'll bet that it's around 12, then around 10, then below 10 when trying to start.

IF the battery voltage doesn't drop off, try changing your plugs and check the plug wires and caps.

In fact new plugs are about $5 if you haven't changed them, do it, it helps everything

Have you cleaned your carbs yet? if not, DO IT, even if they are ok it doesn't hurt to clean them.
Do you have a haynes manual? the steps are pretty well outlined in that, and here in many posts, and on luckys site http://www.xz550.com/carbclean.html

BUT, I still say if what you are experiancing is:
Starter button pushed: rrrr rrrr rrrr (engine turning over) click tickticktick (engine no longer turning over) It's the battery.  If it was the carbs, the engine would turn over and over and over.... etc...etc...

[Lucky]

you can easily confirm the battery being bad. hook a set of jumper cables up to a car battery --DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, START THE CAR!! YOU'LL FRY YOUR CHARGING SYSTEM!
if the bike turns over well 7 starts, you need a battery. (then you can check your charging system, clean the connections, solder the R/R & move it to the footpeg.)

you probably have a lot of work to go on this bike, probably the more you look, the more you'll find, but believe us, it'll be worht it.

--Lucky

[ProfessorRex]

To add to the bold red text
Don't run the bike off the car battery either, that will kill the charging system!

[Lucky]

Man that's hard to read! :)  i've never tried running it off just a car battery, might not be good for the bike, but a cars charging system puts out a whole lot more amps than a bikes...

[dchakrab]

I have two meters now...so how do I use them? Can someone tell me exactly what to take apart, where to stick my two little needles, what setting to use, and what to measure?

No car battery to play with, but I assume the next step is to find a super-cheap trickle charger?

I decided to wait for the petcock to arrive before I messed with a carb cleaning, simply because I'm not sure I have a decent supply till I have the petcock issues worked out. Man, I just want this bike to run!

  -Dave.

[Riche]

This is a good charger
http://www.batterytender.com/default.php?cPath=11_3
This link has a good price,how good the source is I don't know it came up in a google search, shop for price/reliable source
http://www.mawonline.com/batteryt.htm

[dchakrab]

Thanks, will keep that in mind for when i have some cash. The supplier (second link) is cheap, $20 for a $30 battery, but they have a mandatory $5 handling fee, plus shipping, so the difference will probably turn out to be negligible. I'll spend some more time looking around once my financial situation improves a little.

  -Dave.

[ProfessorRex]

Check ebay, I got my battery tender from a store there for under $20

[Walt_M.]

It is tough to beat Walmart for an inexpensive battery. I got one there recently, $34, out-the-door.

[Brian Moffet]

But Walmart is the devil incarnate.

Brian

[ProfessorRex]

YEA THE DEVIL! (but I still got my battery there... sorry small local motorcycle shop)

[dchakrab]

Walmart is definitely evil...hopefully I'll be able to avoid stooping that low. Of course, right now, until my boss decides to pay me for the last six weeks, I'm in major dog-poo, financially. I'm hoping that once Superfly's petcock gets here, I'll be able to at least get the bike started...can I push-start it?

Basically, turn the bike on, put it in first gear, push it with the clutch completely in, and then dump the clutch and give it a little bit of gas...this should work, right? I've done it on my Enfield a million times, since I usually don't bother stopping when the bike stalls out, just jump down two gears and clutch dump it, but is there anything I should know before I try it on the Vision...any extra complications caused by electronic starting, for example? I'm assuming I can get the clutch back in in time to keep it from pulling out of my hands, since I've never ridden this bike, and it probably pulls a lot harder than my Enfield.

Actually, would this be a good thing to do now...push start it, and then let it sit with the engine revving for a while, to put some life back into the battery? I can manage that with the existing petcock, since the neighbourhood's already used to the smell of gas from my parking lot.

  -Dave.

[ProfessorRex]

You might be able to push start it, but running it with a bad battery can burn the stator and RR... not worth it in my oppinion.

BUT
To push start it:
-turn on the ignition
-Put it in 2nd gear
-Pull in the clutch
-run as fast as you can down the street
-jump on
-dump the clutch
-enjoy

Once it's running, get your meter out and see what kind of voltage is going into the battery at idle, and while reving.  Should be around 14v while reving

[dchakrab]

I'm just planning to try starting it, then letting it sit and idle for a while. How do I check the voltage going into the battery?

Assuming the Haynes manual will tell me how to get to the battery, where do I stick my two little prods from the meter?

Also, why second gear, and not first? Seems like I'm going to have to run faster to get it to jump in second, right?

  -Dave.

[MotorPlow]

To check voltage at the battery, stick the Negative Prong on the Negative side of the battery and the Positive Prong on the Positive side of the Battery.  The alternative is to stick the negative prong to ground on the bike and see the voltage going through the bike.

Use 2nd Gear for 2 reasons...  The gearing is tight enough in 1st that if it starts and you have the throttle slightly open or gas past the carbs in the manifold, you might find yourself sitting on the pavement as the bike takes off without you...  or if your running fast enough and then hop on the bike to pop the clutch and don't have enough throttle, you might find yourself sitting on the pavement after you went over the handle bars as the rear wheel stops turning with the clutch out.

[ProfessorRex]

The battery is located behind the plastic side cover on the right side of the bike.  Carefully pop it off and the battery is right there.

[Lucky]

if your going to run next to a 400+ lb bike & jump on, your going to look silly when it falls over...  stradle the bike & roll it downhill. have someone nearby to help you push it back up the hill if it doesnt start.

The TCI (electronic modual) needs at LEAST 9.5v to fire the coils.

--Lucky

[h2olawyer]

The battery is located behind the plastic side cover on the right side of the bike.? Carefully pop it off and the battery is right there.

Actually, the battery is on the LEFT side - as you sit on it, facing forward - same side as petcock.  The terminals can be accessed by carefully removing the diamond shaped plastic cover.

H2O

[dchakrab]

if your going to run next to a 400+ lb bike & jump on, your going to look silly when it falls over...  stradle the bike & roll it downhill. have someone nearby to help you push it back up the hill if it doesnt start.

The TCI (electronic modual) needs at LEAST 9.5v to fire the coils.

--Lucky

My enfield's a little heavier...I usually do this minus the "jump-on" part. If I'm trying to start it when it's totally dead, I jump the bike while i'm jogging next to it....as in, pop the clutch, pull it back in again when the engine catches, stop the bike, sit on it, keep giving it gas, and then start riding it. It sounds trickier than it is...but with the bullet, i've been doing this long enough that i can tell when the engine's going to catch, so i've never been left sitting there watching my bike sail off without me.

Chicago = no hills.

  -Dave.