help with fixing the starter.

[dj]

I am having some issues with the starter rebuild.  I have the starter partially torn apart and cleaned.  I can't figure out how to get the front part of it taken apart (the part that goes into the engine).  how far do I need to tear it down to replace the seal with the new updated seal that I got from NightVision?

I have attached the picture from the haynes manual.  Which seal is the one that is the one that allows oil to leak into the starter when it degrades??

[h2olawyer]

Try these links - this procedure is not in the Haynes manual, as you probably figured out by now.

www.ridersofvision.net/Technical/Starter_Rebuild/starter.html

www.xz550.com/starters.html

The first one from the ROV tech page has some issues with the display of the text - some overlap (at least it does on my computer).  The photos should help.  Lucky's is readable but has no photos.  Between the two, you should be able to do the fix.

H₂O 

[Lucky]

the seal is not in the Yamaha pictures. nice of them huh?
you need to pull the two snap rings holding the nose gear on & under it.  the seal will be visible once you remove the shaft.
you may have to block the nose of the starter up & bang the shaft back in rather vioently to get it back in, at least i did...

when installing the two small planatary gears, make 1000% sure you have them directly opposite each other. they will fit in a tooth off & the starter will spin, if you do so you'll destroy the starter in short order.

[dj]

Lucky,

     You might want to add an extra step to your rebuild guide.  I found that the new seal doesn't quiet sit down all the way into the slot.  What I had to do was put the shaft back in and put the bottom snap ring on and then back the shaft out ever so slightly.  Just until the shaft could be turned by hand, we aren't talking much on the backing out (no more then 1/16th of an inch) but it is a step that I had to take or the shaft couldn't be turned by hand at all.

[Lucky]

the seal i used was 5mm thick which now seems hard to find, 6mm is the norm, so i had no problems at the time i wrote that...

[dj]

I'm not sure which one I got for the seal, I just know that unless I backed the shaft out a smidge I couldn't turn it by hand.  I am hopefully picking up some new starter brushes today from the local dealer and putting everything back together tonight.  With any luck I can get the bike started and finally see if I have the carborator fixed.  I did a carb cleaning on it and when it was all finished I put everything back together and the bike wouldn't start, which led me to the starter rebuild.

Hopefully I can start riding the V soon.  I don't think the guys at work beleive that I have another bike, they are like "When do we get to see the Vision?" ;D

[Night Vision]

dj- The seal I sent you is the same I used in two starters and others have used with no complaints so stop your whining  >:(  >:(  >:(  (just kidding :-*  :-* :-* ) 

As long as you still have it apart waiting for brushes, take another look and make sure you have it assembled correctly including the correct order of the thrust washers. The spring side of the seal faces the gears, the flat side faces the brush end. If you bugger it up trying to flop it, let me know and I'll send you another.

Like Lucky said, you have to whack the shaft off with a hammer (he didn't say that exactly  ::) ). It was awhile ago, but I'm pretty sure I "nudged" the nose back on, but with less authority. 

Having the planetary gears in wrong is very easy to do. The starter is very difficult to turn if the teeth are off. They may not look like they are off, but they might be. Been there done that.

Lastly?, do the bench test using a vice before puttin it back in. Wrap in a towel/rag (watch that gear), clamp in vice, 12v red lead to bottom post.... safety glasses on? (check) either touch the black lead to the mounting tab/case... or if you are adverse to sparks.... quickly grab that sucker with the black jumper cable. Don't let it spin for long, just make sure it doesn't bind or grenade.

[dj]

I took another look at it and the spring was half under the seal and half out of the seal.  Looks like I buggered it!   :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(

I am going to try and get the seal out, but it doesn't look promising to get it out without messing it up.

Night Vision - could you send this inept fool another seal, I killed the first one.  Hopefully there are no members of PETA on this website.  I don't want them missunderstanding when I say I killed the seal.  ;)

Is it possible that the spring being missaligned cause my issues?  Or is it more likely that I didn't get out all of the old seal.  I scrapped at it with a screwdriver and a utility knife and got out as much as I could see.

I'll test it out once I get it all back together.

As a side note/question, why do Dealers overprice their parts by so much.  I called up the local bike shop, which happens to be the Yamaha Dealer and new starter brushes were going to be $69.95. :o :o :o :o  I was like "are you serious??" and the parts guy said "that is what it shows in the computer".  He wasn't impressed when I told him that I can get them online for $21.95 (30.00 with shipping!).

[Night Vision]

I still have your address and will send you another as long as you promise to......
  >:( >:( >:(  STOP BLUDGEONING SEALS!!!!!    >:( >:( >:(

[dj]

I was taking a drink of my soda when I read your reply and almost sprayed the monitor!!

;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D  ;D :D  ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D ;D :D

Thanks.

[Night Vision]

ps- are you talking about the circle spring on the starter seal? or that "w" shaped spring that holds in the bearing?

pss- if you used a knife and screw driver to remove old seal, check to make sure the surfaces are still smooth and/or don't have any seal spooge on them.

pssssss- umm, be careful about the starter brushes. are the ones you are looking at from Bikebarn? there are posts on the subject, and I think the consenses was to get the whole chulupa JMHO......

ttfn-got to go

[dj]

answer to ps - yes, it was the circle spring from the starter seal (and yes I buggered it up even more trying to get it out.)

answer to pss - seal spooge??  are we no longer trying to keep things pg?  that sounds like it should come with a "no one under 18 may veiw this post without the expressed consent and guidence of an approved parental figure!" type deal.

answer to pssssss - yes they are from bikebarn.  is this a bad thing?  where should I have ordered them??  what do you mean by the whole chulupa?  (isn't that a dish from TacoBell?)

[MotorPlow]

That should be PS, PPS, PPPS, etc...

PS Stands for Post Script, so it would then be Post Post Script, Post Post Post Script, etc.....

Alright I am bored, time for another ride...

[Tiger]

I still have your address and will send you another as long as you promise to......
  >:( >:( >:(  STOP BLUDGEONING SEALS!!!!!    >:( >:( >:(

.......Murderer, murderer, murderer.......poor seal's.......I'll have to speak to Paul McCartney........ ;D

[Brian Moffet]

Uh, he never said he bludgeoned seals.  He said he buggered them.

Brian (I'm leaving now...)

[dj]

I didn't bludguen the seal!  I slashed it all up trying to pry it out.  I guess I shouldn't have hit the seal so hard into the small slot.  :P

[Mutt]

I heard they taste like chicken, is that true dj??  :P

Mutt

[Night Vision]

yes they are from bikebarn.  is this a bad thing?  where should I have ordered them??  what do you mean by the whole chulupa?  (isn't that a dish from TacoBell?)

I think there was some issue about having to solder the bruses to the base plate.

here's an example of the whole chulupa - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yamaha-XZ550R-Vision-Starter-repair-Rebuild-kit-38_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6755QQitemZ4628800069QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

I don't have any experience with that item, others may...
Are you sure you need brushes? did you measure them?

[QBS]

Wow. That chulupa kit looks like the whole enchalada and at really good price too.

[Night Vision]

yeah, I wish they were out there about six months ago  >:( >:(