Wiring Gremlins!

[YellowJacket!]

D'oh!  Is that what I did wrong?!?   ::)

....Instead of solder, I may use posi-lock connectors.

H₂O

Hey, now thats a good idea. ;D

I think I'll try that.

David

[Tiffanator]

Ok guys... I'm getting really frustrated here.  Its probably something stupid and I'm almost certain its something I've done.  As you know I cooked a diode.  Well.. I went to radio shack and got 2 new ones... 1amp 50V.  I put one on the bike, making sure that I had it facing the correct way.  Turned the key on, lights came on.. all was good.  Touched the diode... smoking hot.  Turned the bike off... checked wires, through maybe the starter relay was bad and causing that, so I unplugged it. Turned the key, smoking hot diode.  Turned the bike off again.  Checked all the wires again, turned the bike on...cool diode... sweet.  Looked.. no tail lights.. now they were working before.. not anymore.  Though.. blew a fuse.. nope, fuses good.  Thought.. toasted the diode.. ok.  Got the other diode and put it on... turned the key, smoking hot. Turned the bike off. Disconnected the starter relay and the sidestand relay, cut the bike on.. smoking hot diode. Turned the key off... unhooked the battery and came inside.
Do I just need to sell this bike or give it back cause I'm starting to think I'm doing more harm than good.  Its just so frustrating chasing these wires.
Tiff

[Night Vision]

... then I happen to peer back and see a thin line of smoke coming from the bundle of wires under the seat.... great... I hurry to pull the battery cable off and let it cool down.  Pulling the wires apart I see that my diode has melted the casing...

Since I am electrically challenged... I get to ask the obvious.....
where are these cooking diodes? in the TCI box?

[YellowJacket!]

NOOOOOOOOO!!!!! Don't Sell it.  Theres a lot more to learn and do.  you may get frustrated but its worth it when you finish.

Somewhere in the system there has got to be a short causing that diode to blow.  It can be a stuck relay, it can be a grounded out wire.

I just found out my stator wires are melted and will have to be soldered....something I should have done in the first place.

Since you know that the pistons turn, you are in good shape as long as you have decent compression.  Carbs will probably gove you some fits but its all part of the process.  Just don't get frustrated. The baes part about owning one of these bikes is the satisfaction of knowing that you beat back the gremlins and won a battle. We can help you through most, if not all of it.  Tiger mentioned that he has a wiring harness.  Check with him about that.  I have gotten some parts from him in the past and he is very very reasonable. ;D
Another consideration is a short in the switcha assembly on the handlebar.  Did you open that up and look in it (beware of silk spider nests. ;D  I found lots in mine).

Hang in There!

David

[Lucky]

See if Tiger or Mutt or someone has a wire harness.  changing it out is all of a two hour job..

Diode? what diode?

[Coil Coyle]

Ok guys... I'm getting really frustrated here.  Its probably something stupid and I'm almost certain its something I've done.  As you know I cooked a diode.  Well.. I went to radio shack and got 2 new ones... 1amp 50V.  I put one on the bike, making sure that I had it facing the correct way.  Turned the key on, lights came on.. all was good.  Touched the diode... smoking hot.  Turned the bike off... checked wires, through maybe the starter relay was bad and causing that, so I unplugged it. Turned the key, smoking hot diode.  Turned the bike off again.  Checked all the wires again, turned the bike on...cool diode... sweet.  Looked.. no tail lights.. now they were working before.. not anymore.  Though.. blew a fuse.. nope, fuses good.  Thought.. toasted the diode.. ok.  Got the other diode and put it on... turned the key, smoking hot. Turned the bike off. Disconnected the starter relay and the sidestand relay, cut the bike on.. smoking hot diode. Turned the key off... unhooked the battery and came inside.
Do I just need to sell this bike or give it back cause I'm starting to think I'm doing more harm than good.  Its just so frustrating chasing these wires.
Tiff

Tiff, Now your doing great!
Looking at the wire diagram you can see that the diode only should conduct the current from the side stand relay. If you are blowing it the sidestand relay coil must be "shorted". Unplug the side stand relay and the diode should not get hot.
Unplug both relays then jump the Red/White to the Red/White in the side stand cut out relay plug. Now the starter button will work any time. You can knock the bike off of the stand by hitting the button when in gear so be careful.

Post what you find.
\
Coil

If the lights went out you should have blown the fuse that feeds the lights. The diode is not supposed to connect your lights to ground, just the relay coil.

[Coil Coyle]

See if Tiger or Mutt or someone has a wire harness.  changing it out is all of a two hour job..

Diode? what diode?

Tiff,
       Why don't you explain to Lucky how to find the diode? On the Diagram and on the bike?
We like to help each other here on ROV's TECH TALK.

$0.02
Coil

[Coil Coyle]

... then I happen to peer back and see a thin line of smoke coming from the bundle of wires under the seat.... great... I hurry to pull the battery cable off and let it cool down.  Pulling the wires apart I see that my diode has melted the casing...

Since I am electrically challenged... I get to ask the obvious.....
where are these cooking diodes? in the TCI box?

NV,
Go to the home page, TECHNICAL / WIRING DIAGRAM and follow the kick stand cutoff circuit. The diodes are the arrowhead pointing at a bar.  One is in the harness and another is in a relay case.

Can you name Which Relay?

;)
Coil

[Night Vision]

NV,
Go to the home page, TECHNICAL / WIRING DIAGRAM and follow the kick stand cutoff circuit. The diodes are the arrowhead pointing at a bar.  One is in the harness and another is in a relay case.

Can you name Which Relay?

;)
Coil

oooh  :o, oooh  :o... is it the starting circuit cut off relay?  and that wasn't even a multiple choice question..

Tiff, Coil helped me when I first got my Vision and had starting problems... I'll bet he'll get ya fixed up.

[Coil Coyle]

NV, you got it!

Tell Lucky. ;D

Coil

[Tiffanator]

Hi... thanks coil for the help.  The diode still gets smoking hot with both the starting relay and sidestand relay unplugged.  Could a wire be damaged somewhere within the wiring harness causing the reverse current.  I thought I had the problem solved with the first diode when it stopped getting hot... but I checked voltage and no voltage was getting through the diode in the correct direction, so I swapped it out and it got smoking hot again.  I'm trying not to burn up this last one to prevent another trip to radio shack cause they had to go digging in the back to find these.  A quick note.. the new one is A LOT smaller than what was on the bike. 
I went out this morning and turned the key on again, tail lights came back on... I guess they were just in a bad mood last night, can't quite explain that, but it makes me think there are some nasty gremlins hanging out in there.  Diode still got burning hot with the starter relay and sidestand relay unplugged.  No good gremlins came and fixed it last night.  I checked again to ensure that the diode was pointing in the right direction, it was.  This may have been a problem from the beginning because looking at the old diode there is nothing but wire and the heat sink left... no coating at all.  So it has been hot for long enough to burn off all the coating and melt through the plastic sleeve.  When I first got the bike the sidestand switch connector was plugged into the neutral switch connector.  But I solved that pretty quick.
I'm afraid to leave the key turned on for very long in fear of burning something up, so I feel like I can't really troubleshoot stuff.   
Lucky... to find the diode on the bike just short out your sidestand relay and watch for smoke... ;)  But if you want to find it without melting something you can just take the seat off, pick up the bundle of wires under it, and under the bottom there is a clear plastic tube separate from the bundle, inside that is the diode, it connects a blue/yellow wire with a sky blue wire.
Thanks
Tiff

[Night Vision]

ok, now that I'm feeling smarter than I was this morning... and since I read some of Leathers pages......

why not disconnect the sidestand relay by disconnecting the black/white wire on the TCI 6 prong connector? either pull the wire/pin out of the connector or cut and tape the wire. you could solder it back together later if you wanted to..

Coil; would that take the side stand relay, side stand switch, neutral switch, clutch switch, the starting ciruit cutoff relay plus the two diodes out of the equation?

....or just the sidestand relay itself?   

Tiff, you say the V was outside in the weather (rain?) for a some time..
what if the TCI has moisture inside the case? No harm in cracking the TC case open, inspect the solders, and spray down with WD-40

[Tiffanator]

Hi NV... that may be something I have to look into if it would keep the diodes from burning out or me from burning the bike up. 
Yes... the V sat outside I know for at least 4 months cause I looked at everyday.  Before that I'm not sure, it may have been outside the entire 3 years that my cousin had it.  I did open the TCI case and checked it.. the solders looked good and there was no water in the case.  However there were two spots of discoloration... it looked like glue that had yellowed, I know it isn't glue.. but that's what it looks like.  I don't know if that is part of the circuit board that has gone bad or what.  None of the soldiers appeared corroded.  If it helps I can get a pic of those spots.
And if all else fails... I'll have to go shopping at Tiger's Parts Emporium for a new wiring harness.  Poor Tiger is going to end up sending me a whole new bike part by part. haha!
Tiff

[h2olawyer]

At least the parts will all match, unlike Johnny Cash's "One Piece At A Time".   ;D

Glad you haven't given up.  Sorting the electrics out would give me the biggest challenge.  At least there are people here who are good with that stuff!  (not me . . .  ::) )  All I can add is to work on it until you start to get frustrated then stop.  Go do something else for a while & don't start working on it again until you're calmed down.

H₂O

[YellowJacket!]

And if all else fails... I'll have to go shopping at Tiger's Parts Emporium for a new wiring harness.  Poor Tiger is going to end up sending me a whole new bike part by part. haha!
Tiff

Don't worry.  Tiger has LOTS of parts and Visions too. ;D

A picture of the glue would be helpful.  It is possible that it is a coating to protect a particular circuit from condensation.

David

[Tiger]

I'll have to go shopping at Tiger's Parts Emporium for a new wiring harness.  Poor Tiger is going to end up sending me a whole new bike part by part. ha ha!
Tiff

;)...Not a problem...one complete "V" I have...well, three actually :o ;D ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D You can fly up and ride one back... 8)

Do you want me to send a wiring harness to you  ??? You can always send it back, if you don't use it...

Have the other part's arrived, as yet... ???

                      8).......TIGER....... 8)

[Tiffanator]

Hey Tiger... thanks so much for the offer.. however, I come bearing good news... thus far. I found the source of my problem.  I chased the wire back to the oil pressure sensor wire which had a squished and mangled place on it.... allowing the wires to touch the engine and causing major issues.  I soldered in a new bit of wire and waterproofed it and the problem was gone.  However, interesting as it is.. if I take the left handlebar unit loose (had to check voltage to the headlight cause it wasn't working) the wire heats up... I have no idea why, but once its back in place everything is fine again.
In other good news I got the headlight working... yay.  Now I just need to get a flasher relay for the turn signals and I'll be a happy camper.
I'm going to try some more with this wiring harness.. I think I may be getting somewhere, but I will for sure keep in mind where I can get one. :)  Other parts have not arrived yet, although I did have a nice little present from POR-15 on the front step this morning.  I know what I'll be doing this weekend.  I will let you know as soon as the parts arrive.
Dave... don't have the camera at home tonight, but I'll get a pic tomorrow.  It seems to be in the area around the 6 plug, and another smaller area in the middle of the circuit board.  Hopefully it will show up in a pic.
Thanks all... I'm feeling much better about this.  Wiring is so frustrating.
Tiff

[Lucky]

Tiff,
As QBS is fond of saying, someone else has used all the 'good' up in these bikes, and we have to spend time to put the 'good' back into it. these resorations take time, so have patience.

That being said, i have to question your solution... the oil pressure switch grounds thru the switch to turn on the warning light. oil pressure keeps the switch open (no contact in the switch) so when the bike is off, or the oil pressure is low, the warning lamp lights.  if the wire was mangled & grounding, the light would be on all the time, but that's not a short cuircut, just a completed cuircut to iluminate the bulb...

note that other cuircuts on the bike (like the horn for example) work by completeing the ground too, not introducing 12V like a car.

keep this in mind when working on the bikes electrical.

HTH, --Lucky

[Coil Coyle]

why not disconnect the sidestand relay by disconnecting the black/white wire on the TCI 6 prong connector? either pull the wire/pin out of the connector or cut and tape the wire. you could solder it back together later if you wanted to..

Coil; would that take the side stand relay, side stand switch, neutral switch, clutch switch, the starting ciruit cutoff relay plus the two diodes out of the equation?

NV, It looks like the B/W wire to the TCI has to connect to ground for the ignition to run. You would have to jump it also if you pulled the side stand relay. The R/W wire jumped for the starter solenoid to work and the B/W wire jumped for the TCI to work. Then all of the above would be out of the action, you could put your side stand down, put in gear, stand to one side and hit the starter button. The bike would lurch off of the stand while you tried to hold it by the right grip.

$0.02
;)
Coil

[Tiffanator]

Me again.... I think I'm down to the point where I just need a flasher relay to have all of the lights working on the bike.  Now for tach/speedo we'll see when I get the bike cranked.
I said a few days ago that I would get a pic of the TCI box where there was some discoloration. Well I finally got that.  Where the 6 pin connector is it does appear to be some sort of glue, not sure what the other spot is.  I think you can see ok in the pic. Link... http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a144/Tiffanator/Vision%20Restoration/?action=view&current=TCI.jpg
The spots I'm talking about are the two places where it looks yellowed.
I was told the bike ran, was laid down tearing up the wiring harness, a new harness was put on and it wouldn't crank (cause it didn't know it was in neutral - fixed).  I'm assuming this is the TCI that was orginally on the bike when it ran, so I'm hoping it may still be good.
Tiff