Author Topic: New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)  (Read 27166 times)

inanecathode

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New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)
« on: March 18, 2007, 10:44:00 PM »
Hi everybody :D
I'm new to the Vision (1982 according to the title, 1983 according to the seller). I recently bought one for a paltry 400 bucks. Seat in good condition, all plastics present, free rolling in neutral, parked in a shed for a year cause the guy didnt have time to fix it properly.

The good:
Plastics mostly there (missing left side battery cover)
Seat perfect besides a small tear right in the middle
Electrics good (possibly not the starter, more on that later) No, electrics bad. Bad electrics bad!
Brand new tires (yaaaaay)
Original keys (nice huh?)
Fork seals apparently good Nope, both bad it appears (h2o agrees)
$400 why not?

The bad:
Starter (i can hear a relay or something clicking, after reading this site over a bit i think it might be full of oil)
Clutch won't return (clutch lever pulled, won't return, clutch constantly disengaged [i've had this on a suzuki before, and it was just the clutch splines crapped up])

The ugly:
Part of the driveshaft is uglified with rust (surface rust though, no worries)

Im looking forward to sharing my Vision Journey with you all :D


Part two:
(im deciding to include this in the same post as to not spam the forum with my stupid questions :D)

Has anyone here ever had their clutch not want to return back? Where is the clutch pack anyway, i can see the cable going to a little armature thats directly beneath the middle of the case (i hope its not there :o) What precautions/procedures do i need to take to get to the clutch pack to see if its just sticking because it's dry? Turns out the cable was siezed up, another donation for this one!

How do i go about fiding the following:
New oil seal for the starter Found this via a kind donation by Night Vision (thanks bro!)
Brake pads for the front disc Dennis kirk! Woo!
Battery cover (left side) Still looking for this actually
Also turned out the engine was siezed, or the transmission, or clutch pack, something was. Nothing a little fifth gear and epic grunting couldnt solve


Thanks in advance for your help :D
(pictures on the way :D!)


Everything in red is an update circa may second. Decided to do this after searching build threads top and bottom for the solution to problems because they get solved halfway into a thread.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2007, 07:43:43 AM by inanecathode »
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reckon

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2007, 10:57:27 PM »
1st thing replace the battery


THEN check it again,...I bet it cranks


the clutch packs like to freeze up after only a short time sitting (3 or more months), kick it into gear and rock the bike back and forth while trying to pull the clutch lever,......it'll take a few tries but it should pop free after a few rocks back and forth,...the clutch is under the right side engine cover, right by the rear brake pedal, you can remove that adjustment cover (looks like a giant flat head screw dead center of the engine cover) use the handle in the tool kit under the seat, or use a big dull chisel, or a quarter in a pair of vice grips to remove the adjustment cover, that lets you look inside and get a better idea if it's just frozen, or totally hosed.


then take it from there,...but DEFINITELY  battery 1st


Welcome to the forum, and to your V
"if it's stupid but it works, it's no longer stupid"

Night Vision

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2007, 11:16:17 PM »

How do i go about fiding the following:
New oil seal for the starter
Brake pads for the front disc
Battery cover (left side)



welcome to the forum... if you only have one disc up front, it's most likely an '82 (post pics and we'll tell ya)

New oil seal for the starter : pm me you your name and address, I'll send you one, then go here http://www.ridersofvision.net/Technical/Starter/starter.html

Brake pads for the front disc : eBay / Dennis Kirk

Battery cover (left side): Tiger has lots of parts, go here http://ridersofvision.net/forum/xzindex.php?topic=6172.msg52756#msg52756 
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
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if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

inanecathode

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2007, 11:22:50 PM »
Ok, thats cool about the trick to free up the clutch.
I've had the battery on trickle charge all day, my DVOM says it's putting out 12.6 volts (but thats not under load, i don't know if its a phantom charge or not, battery was new last year according to the seller)

How can i tell if the clutch is hosed? Any tell tale signs i'll see when i open up the adjustment cover?

And heres a REALLY stupid question: How do i start it? Transmission in neutral, kill switch in the on position (what are all the switches on both hands btw, all my writing is rubbed off, so all i have is a mess of switches and levers), then.... hit the starter? Are there any silly safety features like a clutch safety switch, kickstand switch (lol, ive heard of those before) or anything like that? This is my first electric start bike (my right leg loves it already :D)

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h2olawyer

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2007, 11:35:58 PM »
The Vision has both the clutch & kickstand safety switches.  Tranny in neutral & clutch switch is bypassed.

Switches:
Left hand top to bottom
Hi / Lo headlight beam
Turn Signals
Horn
Choke Lever

Right hand top to bottom
Kill / Run switch
Start button

Should take care of those questions.  Welcome to the Forum & Vision ownership!

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

Kevin

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2007, 11:49:13 PM »
Welcome to the Vision group. Starting procedure for these bikes, set the petcock to prime,pump the throttle a couple of times,full choke, cross fingerrs. :o

reckon

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2007, 12:40:33 AM »
I've had the battery on trickle charge all day, my DVOM says it's putting out 12.6 volts (but thats not under load, i don't know if its a phantom charge or not, battery was new last year according to the seller)

a new battery only costs about $50-$70, and that way, you'd know fast, if it's the starter, or just the battery.

they ALWAYS say they put a "new battery in it last year", and "last year" usually works out to 3 or 4 summers ago.

the charging systems on these bikes aren't the longest lasting, or the best designed, so a NEW battery is CRITICAL to keeping your stator in good health (part of the charging system) so getting a NEW battery every other year or so, is a smart thing to do, because a stator costs from $70-$150, and takes draining the oil pulling the left side engine cover, not to mention the getting stranded who knows where, as when they go, they just go, with little or no warning.

even though the guy I bought my bike from said "I put a new battery in it", and it's output was fine, I went and got a SLA (sealed lead acid) battery anyway, just to be sure.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2007, 01:01:54 AM by reckon »
"if it's stupid but it works, it's no longer stupid"

louthepou

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2007, 07:10:04 AM »
Hi there, welcome!

Just to add to the apready excellent answers stated above:

Begin with starting the bike. Once that's solved, let it warm up a bit, drain the hot oil, replace with new. Start the bike, let it warm up again, and then use the clutch a bit; it may just work. That happened to me on a few used Vision engines.

Cheers!

Lou
Hi, my name is Louis, and I'm a Vision-o-holic

inanecathode

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2007, 07:51:02 AM »
So the tranny has to be in neutral, and the kickstand up for it to start?
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Night Vision

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2007, 07:59:25 AM »
the bike will start in gear with the clutch pulled and the kickstand down, but as soon as you let the clutch out, the kickstand safety switch will kill it.
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

YellowJacket!

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2007, 11:09:35 AM »
I'm one of the guys that "just put a battery in it last year" and I can tell you from experience that it is a safe bet that its bad.  Mine would show 12.9 volts when hooked up to the trickle charger, 12.5 right after being disconnected and 10.5 after cranking just a few seconds. I took the battery back to Advanced Autoparts where I got it and the warranty had run out just under a week earlier.  So, it was almost exactly a year old.  A new battery cost me just under 30.00.
As for starting, there is a cut off relay on the side stand.  Many ROVr's have disconnected the relay but lets assume your s isn't.  The bile won't start with the kickstand down.  It will start on the centerstand though.  So, put it up on the center stand, make sure the kickstand is up.
1. Put the choke on 1/2
2. snap the throttle 3 times.
3. wait about 15 to 30 seconds (varies by individual bike)
4. Turn the key to run position
5. press the ignition kill switch in the run position (front down)
6. press the start button.
The bike will at some point start.

As for the clutch, it is possible that the cable is either dirty or bound.  When I first got my bike the cable was very dirty and corroded.  I got a cable luber from a local bike shop and that freed it up nicely.  After rebuilding the bike, I routed the cable worng and it bound up.  I found out - through here - how to correctly route the cable and it worked like a charm.

As for other reasons the bike won't start, the other guys and you are on the right track.  It is possible that there may be oil in the starter.  Could be a relay or a short.  Also, check your fuses and the connectors.

Other litle things like side cover should be easy to find.

With a little work <grin> you should have your bike running.

Welcome to the ROV!

Where are you located at?


David


Living the dream - I am now a Physician Assistant!!   :-)

Coil Coyle

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2007, 12:16:20 PM »
DVOM says it's putting out 12.6 volts

Welcome, Inane. You need 11+ on the DVOM while cranking.

Jumping from a car will not hurt anything, CRANKING FOR A REAL LONG TIME WHILE HOOKED TO A CAR WILL HURT THE STARTED MOTOR.

$0.02
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Coil

Kenny

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2007, 12:31:31 PM »
Hi,
   And welcome to the site, fire away with the questions -we have all been in the same boat as in Newbies.
  I would add one item to Dave's starting tecknique "Set your petcock to Prime" I find both our visions respond to this if they have been sitting awhile. Strange though I cannot use the same starting routine for both ie:  one needs the choke (enriching lever) along with three throttle cracks while the other needs only the throttle action.
                      Have fun Ken S
2 XV 920rh 81
1 Red/White 83
1 Blue/White 83
Bmw R100rs 84
TDM 850  92

Night Vision

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2007, 12:40:18 PM »

The bile won't start with the kickstand down. 


"Bile is a thick digestive fluid. It is secreted by the liver and stored in the gallbladder"

my bike starts with the kickstand down... maybe you need your gallbladder back  :D
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

don_vanecek

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2007, 12:47:11 PM »
OK, I'm going to give you a different perspective on this.

If the bike will not crank over no matter what method you have tried, (and you can trace that juice goes down to the starter motor, an easy test, take off the big wire to the starter-tells you other problems as already talked about are not messing you up) then your going to need to take the starter off and see if it is full of oil and needs to be rebuilt.

Now, for step two, you may have had to stick about $70.00 bucks or so into rebuilding the starter first, here is step two.

If you can crank the bike over do not be surprised that it will do nothing. BUT I would suggest-and you may have to take the tank off to do this-that you put a small amount of gas or starter fluid directly into the carbs and see it the bike will run-all but just for a second or two. If it will run for just that brief moment or two you then know that it should then be worth your while to proceed to solve the other problems a V that has sat will have such as cleaning the carbs up. Please be careful doing this but in my opinion this will tell you if you have a working machine that just needs some TLC to be an everyday rider (or should be worth sticking some additional funds and time into).

2 more cents worth.

inanecathode

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2007, 01:45:39 PM »
I'm located in colorado for whoever asked,
Is the battery that's in the vision, is that one thats commonly available, or do i need to get a special order deal?

I'll pick up a cable luber while i'm down in town today, if the clutch cable is bound that'll do 'er, if it isnt bound, i bet it needs a good lubing anyway.
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inanecathode

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2007, 01:48:02 PM »
I'm located in colorado for whoever asked,
Is the battery that's in the vision, is that one thats commonly available, or do i need to get a special order deal?

I'll pick up a cable luber while i'm down in town today, if the clutch cable is bound that'll do 'er, if it isnt bound, i bet it needs a good lubing anyway.
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Night Vision

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2007, 01:54:55 PM »
Wal-Mart carries a satisfactory battery for the V for around $35.

wow, that's two Colorodeos lately..
you do know there's a big V meet in CO this year right?
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

h2olawyer

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2007, 02:00:58 PM »
Another Colorado Visionary?  Where you at?  I'm in Ft. Collins.  There's another in the Denver area.  Were a couple others in that area as well, but haven't heard from them in a while.

The battery is readily available (amazing) size is YB14L-A2.  Wal-Mart, Target, Kmart, Batteries Plus, Interstate Batteries all carry them.  I've even seen them in some Checker Auto stores.  Wal-Mart is probably cheapest $35 or so.  Got mine (sealed maintenance free - not AGM) from Interstate $70.  No atter which battery you get, keep it on a battery tender (float charger) when not out riding.  Keeps the battery in good condition & helps it last much longer.

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

YellowJacket!

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Re: New To The Vision
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2007, 05:01:14 PM »

The bile won't start with the kickstand down. 


Yup, yer right.  was thinking about my recent surgery.  ;D

David

"Bile is a thick digestive fluid. It is secreted by the liver and stored in the gallbladder"

my bike starts with the kickstand down... maybe you need your gallbladder back  :D


Living the dream - I am now a Physician Assistant!!   :-)