New To The Vision (Not really anymore, but working it out)

[inanecathode]

Parts explosion! Boom!



Tooling marks?



You can see the edges of the commuter pushed into eachother



Some sloppy chiseling here if you ask me!



Brushes look fan-diggity-tastic. Not even worn round yet!




I think it's important to mention that theres NO burn marks on the end of the commuter, the short wasnt here, or hasnt been here yet, it appears as if the current has jumped through the cap, or the brushes at the cap before even reaching the commuter. Doesnt mean that it wouldnt have shorted at the commuter anyway however.

[Lucky]

that actually looks fairly normal.. not pretty, but they work.

[Night Vision]

if you want a starter nose seal, I told you to PM me your address and I'd mail you one.

[Coil Coyle]

You need to grind a fine tooth hacksaw blade until it is as thin as the gap between the commutator bars. Then saw out just the copper that is bridging between the bars. You want to have no connection between the bars down in the grooves, just the brown insulation. Then smooth the edges with a file, sandstone or sandpaper (silica). If you use garnet or emery paper you will short the commutator with the abrasive.

;)
Coil

[YellowJacket!]

I'm lucky enough to have an electrical system GOD for a instructor in my school, who specializes in stereos and starting systems, i'll take the kit and kaboodle to school and have him look it over. Im definetly thinking fixing whatever is hard shorting should be a priority, before i go get the thing rebuilt.

How do i go about getting the clutch cable and new starter seal on the way here? How does it work, buying something from somebody on this forum o_O?

There are a couple ways we do it.
Some of us just give each other parts.
Some of us trade parts.
Some of us charge a nominal fee.
Some of us sell it outright.
Some of us sell it for a donation to the ROV website to keep it running.
Then there are the auctions.  A few of us (including one "unknown" member) will put up parts for auction through the site.  We'll list a starting and ending time and how the bids are to be submitted.  Kinda like our own "V"-Bay. !hey did I just make up a name for our auction site!?!?
Tiger has his own "parts emporium" that he updates regularly.
And, a lot of us will post good finds on ebay in the swap shop forum.  They are most of the time NOT things that we are selling, rather just links to ebay auctions that we feel might be useful to our "family".
Payment is on the honor system.  Many of us use paypal, but a check in the mail is usually acceptable.

BTW, I may have an old, but not stuck clutch cable in my parts box.  I'll look later and let you know.

David

[Night Vision]

"V"bay  :D I like it...

[inanecathode]

Ok, i picked/sawed the gaps between the commutator flats with emory cloth and a jewlers saw, they looked fine, so after a light greasing and some dvom work it all looks how it should.
Put it in a vice, hooked up the neg of my jumpbox to it, touched the positive and "POW" spark again. "What the hell?" i thought, so i got up the nerve and touched the positive and pressed it on the stud on the starter, it sparked a bit but it spun! Im not sure how fast it's supposed to turn, but it turned alright (pretty sure because of the gear reduction it's not supposed to go real fast)

All i have to do now is replace one of the case seals (some nubbin glued a broken one back together) and put the right kind of nose seal into it and its good to go!

Just waiting on a confirmation of who to get my lovely working clutch cable from ;)


PS: For jumping it, i can leave the battery hooked up and jump it like i would another car except with the car not running, correct?

[dj]

Cathode - when testing the starter like that it will spin very fast!  So fast that if you are holding on to it it will jerk out of your hand (learned this by mistake).

Jumping the bike is pretty simple.  Just make sure the car is NOT running, as this will be to much voltage and can damage things.

[YellowJacket!]

I found my spare clutch cable.  Its stuck but in good condition. I'm going to lube it and see if I can unstick it.  If I can, Its yours for the cost of shipping.  The only thing missing is the rubber accordion boot from the end.

I'll get back at you in a little bit after lubing it.

David

EDIT:  A few squitrs of "Dry Slide" and shes as slick as......  well, lets say that it works perfect with no binding at all.  PM me your address and I'll get you a postage quote.  I'll send Priority Mail, so you should get it by the weekend.  ;D

David

[Lucky]

Don't forget, Mutt went & picked all those parts last fall too, his avitar is probably bugging him to get them moving...

[inanecathode]

Oh man, you guys are awesome i swear! I was dreading going through a page long list of part numbers and seal sizes and such >< The clutch cable is going to make my freakin month i swear, i might have this thing running by next week (spring break yeaaaah)

I ran into a bit of a queer situation though today, i wanted to finally get a look at the nose seal installed in this starter as it was 'rebuilt' and i doubted anyone would take the shaft out as its stuck in there pretty good, and behind a couple jesus rings. I took the shaft out and lo and behold theres a seal there. Im not sure what the stock one is supposed to look like, but looks reletively new and if im not mistaken it resembles the kind of nose seal i need. I didnt take it out yet (not sure how to get it out without trashing it [although im replacing it anyway for reasons talked about in a bit]) but the correct seal is supposed to be a spring loaded type, not a balloon type you see on transmission seals, correct? Either way, i need to install a new correct seal anyway, because the starter was loaded with oil, for one of four reasons:
1) The guy was too lazy/ignorant to clean the oil out of the starter (uhhhh why did it fail in the first place? was it.... engine oil?)
2) The seal is actually the stock one, and i have (once again) no idea what i'm looking at
3) The seal is new and it failed because
    a) Its not the right size
    b) Its the right size, but the wrong application for that design

Anyway, i do need to do the new seal, i don't think a dollar fifty or so is too much to spend on extra assuredness.



PS Once again thanks a TONNE for the clutch cable and nose seal guys, you truely have the Vision

[h2olawyer]

If the seal has a spring reinforcement, it is a replacement - simple as that.

You are discovering one of the main reasons the Vision is such a great older bike - the people on this forum are the best.  It's really like a family.  People who haven't heard of the ROV but owned or worked on Visions in the past will likely tell you these were real lemons.  Not at all true.  They do suffer from inherent carb problems, iffy stators and sub-par suspensions, all true.  The engine is one of the most amazing pieces of engineering put into a motorcycle in the early 80s.  Once you get the carbs thoroughly clean & adjusted / synched, the Vision really comes to life.  Then you find you want to upgrade the handling & stopping abilities.  When that's done, you still find yourself longing for the much rarer 83 anyway.  Yet the 82 still provides a real great time.

H₂O

[kwells]

cept me...i like my 82s...not a fan of the faired 83 is really the reason

[Coil Coyle]

1) The guy was too lazy/ignorant to clean the oil out of the starter (uhhhh why did it fail in the first place? was it.... engine oil?)
2) The seal is actually the stock one, and i have (once again) no idea what i'm looking at
3) The seal is new and it failed because
    a) Its not the right size
    b) Its the right size, but the wrong application for that design

A Vision

Inane, Or he put the spring seal lip toward the starter instead of toward the oil. The spring side faces the crankcase, not the starter.

If you used Emery make sure you sawed after the sanding. A singlr tiny grain stuck in the groove will make that spot arc and shortly the bars will short together. Sand silica) is always used to clean DC motor commutators because all of the other abrasives will conduct electricity enough to enable an arc to start between the bars right where the grit is. It soon will bridge with copper thats following the arc.

$0.02
;)
Coil

[dj]

Oh man, you guys are awesome i swear! I was dreading going through a page long list of part numbers and seal sizes and such >< The clutch cable is going to make my freakin month i swear, i might have this thing running by next week (spring break yeaaaah)

I ran into a bit of a queer situation though today, i wanted to finally get a look at the nose seal installed in this starter as it was 'rebuilt' and i doubted anyone would take the shaft out as its stuck in there pretty good, and behind a couple jesus rings. I took the shaft out and lo and behold theres a seal there. Im not sure what the stock one is supposed to look like, but looks reletively new and if im not mistaken it resembles the kind of nose seal i need. I didnt take it out yet (not sure how to get it out without trashing it [although im replacing it anyway for reasons talked about in a bit]) but the correct seal is supposed to be a spring loaded type, not a balloon type you see on transmission seals, correct? Either way, i need to install a new correct seal anyway, because the starter was loaded with oil, for one of four reasons:
1) The guy was too lazy/ignorant to clean the oil out of the starter (uhhhh why did it fail in the first place? was it.... engine oil?)
2) The seal is actually the stock one, and i have (once again) no idea what i'm looking at
3) The seal is new and it failed because
    a) Its not the right size
    b) Its the right size, but the wrong application for that design

Anyway, i do need to do the new seal, i don't think a dollar fifty or so is too much to spend on extra assuredness.



PS Once again thanks a TONNE for the clutch cable and nose seal guys, you truely have the Vision

Cathode - It very well could be the "upgraded seal", but if the person who rebuilt the starter before you didn't get all of the old seal out then the new one doesn't fit in properly (causes all kinds of problems).  It can allow oil to leak back in or in some cases to case the starter motor to bind and not want to turn (trust me I know from the first time I rebuilt my starter and didn't get all of the old seal out).  :-[

[inanecathode]

I'll have to pull the seal out to see if its the spring reenforcement. Either way i'm replacing it because it leaks :D

[dj]

Just make sure that when you take the old one out to scrape out every last little bit of the old one, or the new one wont fit right.

[inanecathode]

Will do!  ;D

[inanecathode]

Pictuuuuuuuures!



Tadaaaa! Note the exhaust!





It's still RED!

[h2olawyer]

Good looking start!  With a little time & patience, that engine should shine up great.  Looking at the headlight, looks it had a shark fairing mounted on it at one time.  The gasket around the headlight ring is one clue.  Also, it has the lower mounting bracket still in place, where the front turn signals are located.

H₂O