Author Topic: starter clutch adventures  (Read 4389 times)

Night Vision

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2007, 09:42:56 PM »
I believe (someone correct me if I have this wrong) but the sacrificail bolt is mainly to keep the puller from going down into your crank.
:) Curlyrect Don... ;)

also....
1) make sure that the head of the sacrificial bolt is small enough in diameter so as not to interfere with removing the rotor, and
2) is tightened flush to the crank (ie short enough) ... or else you'll risk...

1) defeating the puller's purpose which is pushing against the crank to pull the rotor off..
2) end up bending your puller
3) pound down the threads inside the crank.
e) .... ALL OF THE ABOVE


just might hafta try that side case stud trick myself...
if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
 ;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

Aelwulf

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2007, 09:56:21 PM »
Hate when I get a puller in my crank. ;) Wait, that just sounds wrong...

Anyhoo, thanks for the FYI. :)

Ah, such fun to be out riding...
*thunk*
What was that?!

'82 Yamaha Vision XZ550RJ
'07 Kawasaki Vulcan 1600 Mean Streak Special Edition (VN1600B)

Rick G

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2007, 01:07:46 AM »
I hate when that happens !! >:( I hit the wrong key and it all went away!!
Making my own gaskets is the result of working in an "independant" shop with  no parts.
 
I use 4 tools to make gaskets. A pair of good scissors a exacto knife, a set of gasket punches and a small hammer.

Also, I have a shelf of the type sold in home improvement centres or hardware stores.Its the type used with tracks and brackets. Masionite  would do but plywood and chip board are too irregular.
The hard part of making gaskets is getting / making the pattern. You can't just trace the cover , the gaskets have webs to strengthen them as well as to seal various openings other than the perimeter of the case. You need an old or new gasket to trace. I have  patterns for all the gaskets in the Vision.

Tape the gasket paper on to the shelf and  , using the apropreate size punch carefully create all the holes. The silver dollar sized hole in the right side, is created by using the largest punch 3 or 4 times and cleaning the opening with the exacto knife. Cut the inside first, being careful not to cut across anywhere across the inner line. finally cut the out side with the sicissors. I coat all my gaskets with Gask-a-cinch and set them aside to dry, for 5 minuets,  which allows there reuse two or three times. I can make a gasket in about 10 minuets. as a bonus you can use the centre waste for a base gasket or 2 carb gaskets.
If any one is ever stuck for a gasket, let me know , but as long as their available,they will be cheaper than I can do them.  But, if any one  wants to make there own , I'll sell them a set of templates and they can have at it.
I hate it when the dealer  tells me, "it will take two weeks" . If I wanted them in two weeks ,I'd come in,in two weeks. Irrational , I know , but I'm not a patient person.

Lord give me patience , and give it to me right now!!!

I knew  I missed something when it all went away!!  You can buy a set of gasket hole punches  at Harbor Frieght for $5.99 for those of you (like me ) who don't live near a Harbor Freight they have a web site.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 02:02:08 AM by Rick G »
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

pullshocks

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2007, 09:50:49 AM »
I can't claim credit for the guide bolt idea.  Just repeating what I learned here, but yeah it makes it a lot easier.

Tben, I used a sharp knife similar to exacto, multiple passes of light pressure.  The straight areas can be done with scissors.  for th bolt holes, it's hard to do without punches, but I found I could refine them with a sharp reamer.

don_vanecek

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2007, 10:03:09 AM »
You know I really wonder if perhaps I did not have the sacrifical bolt screwed flush and didn't pound down my threads a bit-hence why it screwed back together so hard!

I wonder I wonder I wonder just why
the bird lays an egg but the egg cannot fly
the egg has a shell but still it will crack
I still wonder what is the meaning of that?

Haven't been on two wheels for a month now, I'm going crazy!

QBS

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2007, 07:11:32 PM »
Tips regarding gaskets:  To increase ones chances of being able to reuse a gasket, coat both sides of the gasket with wheel bearing grease, then install the gasket as usual.  Use no sealant, just the grease.

To punch small bolt size holes in the gasket, place the gasket on a flat piece of soft wood (think pine), use a hammer and a bolt about the size of the desired hole to punch the desired hole through the gasket.  Hammer on the bolt head to drive the threaded end of the bolt through the gasket material and just a little way into the wood.  This can be done with no damage to the bolt.

tben

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2007, 01:58:31 AM »
Well, the bolts are in and peened and drowned in red loctite. I forgot to put the washer in before I bolted the clutch down and at first I thought it would only fit if I took everything apart, DOH! There was no way I was going to redo all my work unless I absolutely had to so a little flexing (of the washer) and some prodding with a screw driver got it in place. I could not for the life of me get the balancer back in place though until I turned the crank to have the key on top, then it went on like a charm. It only took me a half dozen tries, droping rollers and springs everywhere before I figured this out. For those who remember back I spoke of a crack in my clutch, it was only a hairline crack in the cover piece, not in the main body so I'm gonna leave it be.

I also made a new gasket. I traced the old one onto a PBR box to make a template then traced that onto my gasket material. After cutting it out with scissors and a fresh razor blade I coated it in gasket sealer (red tacky stuff) and set it to dry on a paper towel, DOH! Bits of paper towel are now permanently stuck all over my gasket. Its bed time now so I'll have to make another tomorrow.

For those about to do this:
My local hardware store had M8x1.25x16mm Cap screws of 12.9 hardness that worked great. I ground of the tapered tip and one thread. I'm crossing my finger that they will not be sticking out to far.

Thats all for now,
Good night, and good luck.
Three grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love, and something to hope for.
-Joseph Addison

Rick G

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2007, 02:12:34 AM »
Tben, Does the clutch pressure plate have  casting seam,or is it really cracked ? if it is I would get a new one ! Its under a bit of a load  and might fly apart under load. Some one ,including me, will have a good one. by the way forget the red goop its nasty .
I use Gask-a- cinch which  forms a thin rubbery coating that prevent the gasket from sticking to the case and destructing on removal the next time.It an old time product  that non of the "new" guys seem to know about. I was using it in 1962 and it goes back much farther than that.  Grease is ok, but  will turn some gaskets too soft.
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

tben

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2007, 11:14:23 AM »
Rick G: I'll try to find that Gask-a-sinch stuff, thats what I was going for but got the wrong stuff. The steel plate on top of the starter clutch assembly is definitely cracked across one of the holes around the perimiter. It holds on tight but there is no doubt that it was damaged. Is this piece replaceable without getting a whole new clutch plate?

Also, I don't have the two dowels that fit into the crankcase cover (#6 on the crankcase diagram). Are these critical or can I do without?
Three grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love, and something to hope for.
-Joseph Addison

GT @ oh.

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2007, 02:14:23 PM »
Those dowels help to hold the gasket in place when your putting the cover back on.I'm surprised you cant get the gasket from Yamaha thats where i got mine $11-12 there is a reusable gasket out there.... forget name ask or search.....but I was able to reuse the gasket from Yamaha no problems when my peened redo backed out >:( after 1500mi. or so ::) ......second time I used lots more loctite and cut the end for easier peening....first time I thought I peened the crap out of them......but when a noise showed up I knew exactly where to look....and what do you know one bolt was broke the other two were way lose...hopefully this time its good to go for a while....put yamabond or equal. only where the wiring grommet is......... not around the case and you should be able to reuse gasket if need be............I also had a heck of a time putting things back together without pieces dropping out  ::).
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 04:49:48 PM by GT @ oh. »

tben

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2007, 04:43:35 PM »
I made my own gaskets more for the learning experience and to satisfy my impatience than for any other reason. I don't like waiting for small holdups on big projects. >:( ;) ;D
When you say you split the bolt on you second try do you mean you cut it across the diameter and spread it so it couldn't back out?
One other thing I did was take a dremel and grind/buff out all the indentations and scuffs caused by the starter clutch dowel thingamajiggers (the bits that fall out when you pull the flywheel off). I figured the more free they were to move the better.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2007, 04:47:35 PM by tben »
Three grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love, and something to hope for.
-Joseph Addison

Rick G

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2007, 01:04:01 AM »
Tben , you need the dowels , I can fix you up. Gask-a-cinch is in a can with a dawber  in side , the label is white with red writing and a picture of a girl, who is falling on her a** and her skirt is flying up . The stuff started out as a belt dressing. Its even better after you use it a bit , it thickens up.
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

tben

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #32 on: December 15, 2007, 01:08:21 AM »
awsome! I know just what your talking about know with the gask-a-cinch. I'll pm you about those dowels.
Three grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love, and something to hope for.
-Joseph Addison

Aelwulf

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2008, 02:39:45 PM »
For those about to do this:
My local hardware store had M8x1.25x16mm Cap screws of 12.9 hardness that worked great. I ground of the tapered tip and one thread. I'm crossing my finger that they will not be sticking out to far.

I'm about to pick up some of these, did they stick out too far?  Thanks. :)

Ah, such fun to be out riding...
*thunk*
What was that?!

'82 Yamaha Vision XZ550RJ
'07 Kawasaki Vulcan 1600 Mean Streak Special Edition (VN1600B)

tben

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2008, 03:01:47 PM »
They worked great. Long enough but not to long. ;)
Three grand essentials to happiness in this life are something to do, something to love, and something to hope for.
-Joseph Addison

Aelwulf

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2008, 04:27:58 PM »
Shiny thanks. :)

Ah, such fun to be out riding...
*thunk*
What was that?!

'82 Yamaha Vision XZ550RJ
'07 Kawasaki Vulcan 1600 Mean Streak Special Edition (VN1600B)

achie

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #36 on: January 13, 2008, 08:27:13 PM »
I think I may have this starter clutch problem now as well  >:( . She was starting fine except today I started her and heard a loud "kerchunk"  :o ...wasn't sure what it was but she started. Rode her about a block and she started to sound  like she was drowning in gas or running out then stalled  :-[ . Tried to start but all I got was slow turn then click  ??? . Got her to start and again "kerchunk" and stalled (while in neutral)  >:( . It sounds like something catches and gets thrown once really hard on the left side case. She wont start now even push start  :'( . Battery is not an issue anymore - No oil in starter - new starter brushes.

Lucky

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Re: starter clutch adventures
« Reply #37 on: January 13, 2008, 08:37:10 PM »
Battery is not an issue anymore - No oil in starter - new starter brushes.

starter clutch will only make noise while engine is running below 2500 rpm. above that it stops (centrifigul force)

never discount a bad battery, even if it's recently new, & starter could be a tooth off, but that wouldn't make noise running.
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black