Author Topic: Ready to POR, still rust in tank  (Read 31250 times)

YellowJacket!

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #80 on: November 18, 2007, 08:49:52 PM »
Good job Tiff.  You are getting closer to being a Rider of Vision.
As for the slow to return to idle, it could be your YICS.  Have you checked it for leaks or is it plugged off?

David


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Tiger

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #81 on: November 18, 2007, 09:30:17 PM »
...I decided to take the bolt off the metal tube and top off the coolant. I proceeded to shear off the head of the bolt because it is rusted in place. 
Tiff.

 :) Tiff', I have a spare one, if you want it, PM me your address and I'll send it out to you. Keep going girl, your getting there... 8)

When I'm Stateside, I buy the can's of Berryman's carb cleaner, that I add into the gas tank. It may help to run some of this in a gas mix in your pony tank... ;)

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kwells

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #82 on: November 18, 2007, 09:31:57 PM »
if it IS the YICS...u can just cap them off until you get your new functioning YICS...

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Lucky

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2007, 10:05:47 PM »
Classic leakiy YICS symptom
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

YellowJacket!

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #84 on: November 19, 2007, 05:49:03 AM »
Classic leakiy YICS symptom

I'm in a punchy healthcare professional mood.  ;D

Leaky TICS=
YICSorrhea
YICSoresis
LYS - Leaky YICS syndrome

;D

David


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Tiffanator

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #85 on: November 19, 2007, 06:27:38 AM »
Thanks all. I knew you guys would have the answer without any problem. The YICS is one that I got from Tiger that has supposedly been sealed... I'll pull it off and cap the tubes and see what happens. Never know with those things.
Tiger... will I be able to drill and tap out the hole to the exact size of the old one? I may pick up one of those bolt extractors, but this is pretty tight in there. I'll soak it in PB this morning and see what I can do tonight and I'll let you know. Thanks so much for the offer.  Before I'm done half my bike will be your parts.  :D Berryman's carb cleaner... not sure I've seen that in the stores. It took me forever to find the dip. We have the STP and Gummout additive, but I put some of that in my Ninja and it made it worse. I'll run by a few auto parts stores today and see if I can find it. Thanks for the tip.
Dave... too funny.
Thanks guys.
Tiff.
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Tiger

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #86 on: November 19, 2007, 06:42:44 AM »
 :) Tiff', Sorry about the YIC's unit...I know it seemed O.K...However, it looks like the repair may not be as good as I thought :-[ :-[ :-[

 :) You should be able to drill, and using an extractor, remove the stud that is left. Just give it a good day's soak in penetrating fluid, (bare in mind where this part has lived for such a long time). When you install a new bolt, apply a wee bit of anti-seize to the thread's... ;)

 :) I get the Berryman's from WalMart... ;)

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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

Lucky

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #87 on: November 19, 2007, 07:45:04 AM »
I've been fixing engines since i was 15, & did it professionaly for 15+ years. Personally i hate bolt extractors. I think they are a last resort because they expand what you are trying to remove, & they are hardened, so if you break one off (& they will snap since they are hardened) you'll never drill it out.

when possable, try these steps first:
1) use PBlaster & soak it. the advantage on this piece is you can soak it from both sides.
2) use heat. a propaine torch can work wonders.

3) in your case, since it sounds like it's snapped off flush, go to your local Northern tool & get a set of reverse drill bits (#150272-1803 for a 15 pce set $25, #150273-1803 for a 29 bit set $35)

you use these bits with the drill in reverse.
drilling a bolt out in reverse gives you the advantage of drilling it out in the direction it naturally backs out, & the heat created by the drilling helps a lot too.

center punch the bolt to get the drill bit started.

Dave had one do the same thing & we just swapped it out.

--Lucky
« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 07:53:14 AM by Lucky »
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Tiffanator

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #88 on: November 19, 2007, 04:57:48 PM »
Tiger... eh... no biggie on the YICS... it looked really well sealed.. and never know, it could be a leak around the hose or something. I'll see what happens when I plug it.
I have a tube of anti-seize ready to go. This whole bike is in a state.. I'm surprised I've only sheared off the heads of 3 bolts thus far... cause nearly every one is rusted. Looks like a trip to the stainless steel fastener section at Lowes is in order.
Lucky... no Northern Tool here... we have Lowes and Home Depot. I'm sure one of them have a set.. its just a matter of where they are hiding them. It has actually snapped off just below the gasket.. so there's no grabbing it with vise grips and twisting.
Thanks for all the help guys, I'll let you know how it works.
Tiff
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tben

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #89 on: November 19, 2007, 05:07:45 PM »
good luck on the bike tiff. :)
i'm just starting my own project and will be dipping the carbs in the next couple of days. this thread has been a gold mine of info. i'm gonna do my best to avoid any mistakes you talk about and just make my own new ones. ;D
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Tiffanator

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #90 on: November 19, 2007, 05:31:44 PM »
Thanks
See.. now that's why I'm here... to be an example of what NOT to do.  :o Kidding... One thing I found really helpful when I did my carbs the first time was to take LOTS of pics. Everytime I took out a bolt I took a pic of it next to where it belonged... and if there was a gasket or o-ring, same deal. I also printed out the exploded parts diagram with all the numbers on it and when I took a part off it got wrapped in a piece of tape with the number printed on it. This was really helpful for the bolts... they all start to look the same after a while, so I grouped them together and wrapped them all up in a tape cocoon and put the number on them. It helped me to not lose any of them as well.
Tiff.
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Brian_Matthewson

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #91 on: November 19, 2007, 07:22:26 PM »
Tiff...
You can order online at http://www.northerntool.com and they ship anywhere, even Canada!
Brian
1982 Vision rider from 1991 to 2012.

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #92 on: November 19, 2007, 07:26:57 PM »
congrats on getting her running and idling! that's a BIG STEP for sure...

if you think your carbs are spotless, then it's time to eliminate vac leaks, sync, and start tweaking them pilot screws...

after the thermo coupler thingy of course....  ;)   
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ironb12s

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #93 on: November 19, 2007, 07:45:56 PM »
We already know those carbs aren't spotless, and I'd advise NOT using the Berryman's or SeaFoam unless the mixture will be used in less than a couple of days.  Those cleaner additives do a number of the rubber and plastic parts if left to sit for too long...just ask Yamaha-Triples, one fella thought SeaFoam was a fuel stabilizer and the next Spring had to rebuild the cards, a sticky mess due to the o-rings and such "melting".

I DID recently use Berryman's fuel system cleaner on a GS650 I-4 that had been sitting.  Fortunately, the owner rides it in his profession, and we had 2 tankfuls in quick succession thru the carbs in less than a week (3 days)...  The results are stellar, the bike starts right up, and idles smoothly, with no problems anywhere in the range of the throttle.  The idle has been brought down to 1100, from the 2000 he had it set at prior.

I'll be doing the same treatment with Berryman's to an 87 Cavalcade LXE (V-4) very shortly.  It saved us pulling the carbs off of the GS650, it should do the same for the Cade.  Just have to get the bowl drains loose first.
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QBS

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #94 on: November 19, 2007, 07:52:25 PM »
Tiff, if the bolt that you talk about shearing off is the "burp" plug in the inline fan sensor tube thingy, take Tiger up on his very generous offer of a replacement.  Messing around trying to salvage your old piece is needless frustration.

BIG TIP FOR ALL:  The next time your burp bolt is in your hand, wrap its threads with teflon tape and declare victory.  You'll never have to struggle with unscrewing a corroded burp bolt again.

ANOTHER BIG TIP FOR ALL: When struggling to unscrew the burp bolt, use the flats cast into the sensor tube thingy to back up/stabilize the tube thingy.

Tiff, your slow return to idle issue sounds very related to poor synchronization.  The hard hot starting sounds related to pilot jet adjustment.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2007, 07:55:31 PM by QBS »

ironb12s

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #95 on: November 19, 2007, 07:57:44 PM »

3) in your case, since it sounds like it's snapped off flush, go to your local Northern tool & get a set of reverse drill bits (#150272-1803 for a 15 pce set $25, #150273-1803 for a 29 bit set $35)

you use these bits with the drill in reverse.


Harbor Freight has the LH Bits:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=38180  $6

There's one in Pearl, and another Biloxi.
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inanecathode

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #96 on: November 20, 2007, 04:52:03 AM »
Kwells, remember our chemistry experiment with various acids and the green bike tank :P

Tiff, i wouldnt worry about the white smoke to be honest. I'm inclined to think its just fuel vapor coming back up out of the intakes, happens to every carburated vehicle i've seen ;)

If i may offer a suggestion: If the bike stays running pretty well (not dieing within 15 seconds of letting go of the throttle) i'd suggest checking for some vacuum leaks (just spray everything vacuum related with wd or carb cleaner, you'll hear it cough/race/etc if its leaking). Then get your long skinny screwdriver handy (what? you dont have a long skinny screwdriver?), loosen the sync rod lock nut, and drive it all over the place. The best tuning i've ever managed to dial in (after kwells helped get a better sync on it ;)) has been on the fly whilst riding. Reaching down and tweaking the sync one way or the other, and pulling over and monkeying with the mixture. It sounds a bit silly but in my experience unless you're putting the bike under load you're not getting a good tune, you're just making it sound right whilst sitting there :)
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Tiffanator

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #97 on: November 20, 2007, 07:43:18 AM »
QBS... yes, its that bolt... and there will be no salvaging of this one... unless I melt down all the shavings and reform it... the remainder of the bolt is now partially on the vice, work table, and floor in my shop. I couldn't get my hands on a reverse drill bit set, so I tried the extractor after soaking the bolt in PB blaster over night. That bolt is never coming out... extractor or reverse bits... its never coming out. So it has been drilled out and I think tapped to the same threads. Good tips there... I will be wrapping it in teflon or applying anti-seize.. anything to not have to do this again.
inane... thanks. I was concerned somewhat about the white smoke, but everyone here has my mind more at ease about it now. I will get my can of WD handy and start spraying. I actually do have a long skinny screwdriver... stole is honestly from my father. It comes in very handy. The bike idles very well. I just turn it off after about a minute cause smoke starts coming from interesting places.
Should I get the synch rod right first or the pilot screws? Its like what comes first the chicken or the egg.
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Lucky

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #98 on: November 20, 2007, 07:47:51 AM »
There is nothing wrong with static tuning.

set the pilot screws, adjust the synq & then fine tune the pilots.  when you get your YICS sealed, i'd readjust them again.
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ironb12s

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Re: Ready to POR, still rust in tank
« Reply #99 on: November 20, 2007, 02:54:13 PM »
QBS... yes, its that bolt...
<snipped>
 So it has been drilled out and I think tapped to the same threads. Good tips there... I will be wrapping it in teflon or applying anti-seize.. anything to not have to do this again.

Ah, a bit of plumbing knowledge applied?  Good on ya, but ya don't need both anti-seize AND teflon tape.  In fact, pipe joint compound will do the same thing as both combined.  It's brush-on teflon paste.
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