Ready to POR, still rust in tank

[YellowJacket!]

Personally, I think she EARNED that title.  ;D

David

[QBS]

Tiff consider aquiring a non salvagable V tank and cutting the outer tank section away from the inner "saddle" section.  Then build your new tank, of whatever shape you want, onto the old "saddle" section.  Doing it this way will retain the forward frame/tank mounting "ears", stock air box clearance, and maybe even the fuel petcock.  Inventing only half the wheel sure beats having to reinvent the whole wheel.  Cheers.

[Tiffanator]

Dave.. I haven't earned anything... the tank still leaks.  :-\  After sanding for hours last night I think I finally figured out what has happened. When I let the acid solution sit in the tank there were a few places it ate through the putty where it wasn't very thick. I just plugged the holes by putting more putty on the outside  at the time. I think what happened is that it formed a little hollow pocket in there which I didn't fill with putty... so the POR ran into those voids, and when I sanded down the putty, I sanded the POR off too not knowing there was a void there. No places have a major hole, they just leak around the putty/POR patch. So I'm faced with a decision... do I drill out the hole, use a syringe and inject some JB weld into the hole sealing it up... or do I apply more putty over the top and sand it down pretty thin, but not down to the metal. I've done that in a few places and I'm not entirely happy as I can tell there's a bump there, even though its very thin and the edges are smooth transitions.
QBS... the new tank will look exactly like the original tank... it just won't rust. I could make some modifications if I wanted to, basically I can do anything.. even taking out the low spots, but since there's no fear of rust.. why not leave them so water/gunk collects there instead of running into the carbs.
I have to get my tank ready to go back on the bike though... cause I'll have to use it while I'm creating the other tank.
I'm off to sand more... yay... colored boogers. (Kidding Dave, I'm wearing my mask  ;D)
Tiff.

[Brian Moffet]

I needed to make this one post, Tiff.

According to stats, your topic is now as popular (by replies) to my vision rebuild   ;D

Brian

[h2olawyer]

If I were making a new tank, I'd design in one of those flip type caps that are found on most modern bikes today.  Could put it in either the stock location or on the centerline.  Would make filling easier & might even be a cure for the 'Vesuvius' factor.

H₂O

[Tiffanator]

Another chapter begins in this never ending novel. I have finished sanding off the rest of the epoxy putty, and much to my dismay, the tank still leaks. I have no idea how or why... but there are still pin holes that leak, and I'm getting some leaks around the edges of some patched holes. I emailed POR to see if I can just recoat the tank without having to strip the POR, as I'm not sure anything will take it off. My other option is to drill out where it leaks and fill it with JB weld. Oh.. then there is that option of driving the truck over it... yay. I will win.. eventually.
Later
Tiff aka Leaky.

Oh.. and Brian.... this thread is a long as the thread where you rebuilt your entire bike... and I've yet to actually accomplish something! Maybe I should spend less time writing and more time working.

h2o... due to the way the I'm making the new tank and the way the cap fits on the tank, it will have to be a flip top.

[GT @ oh.]

how hard or costly is it to split the two tank sections?...this would make it much easier to pop the dent out of my original tank......anyone ever do or try?

[Tiffanator]

GT... not sure about cutting the tank in half. I have thought of this, but without knowledge of welding I would never get it back together. My idea would be to cut along the inside of the seam around the tank, that way any weld line would be hidden behind the flange. This would also mean you would be welding back to the thicker metal of the flange rather than having to butt weld it anywhere else. The only problem this would cause is that it may be difficult positioning the pieces back together just right and welding them back together, you would probably want to make a jig to hold everything in place. If I had an unsalvagable tank (duh.. I may have one) I would probably split it open out of curiosity. 

As for my predicament... It seems I cannot recoat the tank. So the next thing I'm going to try is drilling out the leaky parts and using a syringe to inject some JB weld into them.. this way it will form kinda mushroom over the hole on the inside of the tank and have more surface area to bond to. If I'm still getting leaks after that I will cover the whole area in a thin layer of JB and creatively reshape it so it will never be noticed once the tank is painted. I just don't want any obvious deformations where the patches are. I found that JB has a putty that can bond and seal a tank WHILE it is leaking fuel... pretty big claims so I may have to pick some up.

In other news I attempted to proceed on to filling the small dent in the tank with some body filler... only to find that the can of body filler that I swiped from dad was supposed to have a tube of cream hardener... um... which is MIA. So now its back to dad's to search for the tube of hardener, otherwise a trip to the auto parts store to get some.

I also split apart the YICS box that I got from Tiger to try to clean it up and reseal it. Tiger... what is all that goop and how do I get it off? I scraped off most of it with a scraper... but there is still some and I'm not sure what will take it off.
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it.
Tiff aka Putty Mouth

[YellowJacket!]

Tiff,
I tried to post an answer from work before but the firewall blocked me.
Don't worry about cleaning the carbon deposits in the YICS unless there is some loose clingons in there.  What you need to do is get some rough grit sandpaper and tape it down onto the floor.  Sand the edges of each half in a karate kid wax on, wax off circular motion to smooth out the edges.  There is probably part of the tongue and groove left over from splitting it in half and you'll want to sand it down good.
Once its sanded, you can make the gasket and stick it together with some red RTV to seal it up.

Goos Luck!

David

[kwells]

show me waxa the car

[YellowJacket!]

show me waxa the car

Ah, young grasshopper.....ancient Chinese secret.  ;D

David

[arfa vmax]

hi tiff  just incase you dont see my post i have a very good tank in black you can have for the cost of shipping.no idea how much that would be and may not be worth it but the tank has only a little very light rust visible inside and is dent and rust free externaly   

[YellowJacket!]

Hey Tiff.....  Where are ya??

........Didn't inhale too many fumes did you??

David

[Tiffanator]

I'm still here everyone... sorry for the disapperance... have been busy lately.
Arfa vmax... Thanks so much for the very generous offer. I am going to try one more thing with my tank then I'll have to look for alternatives until my tank project is complete... er.. I gotta get it underway first.
After fighting over and over with the needles and seats in my carbs and finally tearing the gaskets from taking the tops off so many times I ordered a Keyster carb kit for each carb... hoping the new needles and seats would solve the problem of fuel not flowing into the carbs. I put them in tonight... and... nothing. I hooked up the pony tank, filled it with fuel and it just sat there. The carb bowls are bone dry. I'm not sure if my carbs are missing something or if I am... but.. um.. what exactly does the float do? From what I see its just two pontoons attached to a bit of metal that is hinged to the lid of the carb.. it doesn't open anything nor does it close anything. Below it is the needle and seat, but it does not touch it in any way. Am I missing something? Also... the needle slides up and down in the seat, correct? So... when the carb tops are on the carb, the pointed end of the needle is at the base of the seat... effectively covering the hole and not letting any fuel through. What am I missing?
On another note though.. the new seats have a bit of very fine filter mesh over the hole so they are another way to keep the carbs sparkly.
I have the next 12 days off work and I really want to get the bike running smoothly in that time.
Thanks everyone for sticking with me. Hopefully once the tank and carbs are sorted the rest will go smoothly. (ha ha.. famous last words)
Tiff.

[Tiffanator]

Ok... So I just looked through the Haynes manual again... and.. oh my god... how stupid am I? Yeah.. I had the whole unit in upside down. I swear that's how it came out... I swear it is. I'll have to look at my pics. I'm an idiot. And I had never noticed that picture until now. Ugh. Ok.. back to the workshop.
Tiff.

edit.. just looked through my pics.. half a million pictures of those carbs and not ONE of that setup. Dork. Guys.. I'm really not this stupid most of the time, I don't know why this is so complicated to me.

[inanecathode]

I was going to suggest before reading your last post that you check if they're in the right side up. That happens with older keihin carbs as well. Pretty confusing when you have one carb not fueling after just rebuilding them.

[Tiffanator]

Yes Yes... what can I say.. I'm a genius.  8) For my next trick... I will drain the oil... WOO HOO!
Ok, so I got everything in the way man intended it to be in... so now the carbs work like little champs. Makes MUCH more sense when you get everything in correctly. Now my next problem. When I'm cranking it over, sometimes I get a really nasty CLACK! and it stops turning over. Sometimes this happens while the bike is running as well. I drained the oil and there's no metal shavings in the oil or filter that I can find. Starter clutch bolts loose? It doesn't make any clicking or anything while its running, its just the loud clack and it stops dead. Sometimes when it does this it loses neutral and I have to go pop it into first and back up to get neutral again. Could something in the clutch be loose and its engaging when it shouldn't? I did have to replace the clutch line, maybe I didn't get it tight enough. Any tips? I don't want to go any farther and risk my engine eating itself.  :-\
Another minor (ok, maybe not so minor) issue.. the oil pressure warning light NEVER comes on. Ever. I have pulled the wire and cleaned the contacts, nope, I checked to make sure the bulb is good, its fine. Could the sensor be bad? Could the wire be corroded somewhere? Maybe I'll connect another line and just see if it works then, if it does, I'll know there's a break in the wire.
One thing at a time.. finally have carbs that work. Tomorrow I patch up the tank... again.
Sorry for the mindless dribble, I use these posts as a brainstorm method.  :P
Tiff.

[inanecathode]

Just test for continuity across the bulb, thats probably whats out if anythings out.
The CLACK could just be it running out of juice, it could also be that its popping into gear when you're trying to start it.
For the clutch line, adjust it so the clutch itself is resting on its own spring pressure totally, ie, cable loose with only about 1/16th of freeplay at the lever. Make sure the clutch lever on the case isnt caught on anything and is working smoothly.
You DID put oil back in it before you tried to start it again right?

Does it stat?

[h2olawyer]

The oil light could be the wire, but since you checked the bulb already, I would suspect the pressure sender or possibly a poor or swapped connection.  Make sure the right wires are going to the right sensors down there.  You can test the wire for continuity with your ohm meter as well.

I had a similar problem last summer with my neutral safety switch - it wouldn't go off.  Tested it & it failed.  New one works "just like new!"   ;D

H₂O

[Lucky]

if you weren't working so hard on it, i'd make you an honerary blond & tease you  :D

you figured it out & that's the point. ggod job.

as for the clacking, i'd suspect the bikes not cranking fast enough.  put a voltmeter on the battery & let us know what the voltage drops to while cranking.  it shouldn't drop below 10V.  if so, battery/charging/starting system needs attention.

--Lucky