starter clutch adventures

[tben]

So as I was struggling to get my V started I noticed that every 4th time or so that I would hit the start it would not engage. The motor would wind up but the engine did not turn over. I figured I'd better have a look inside at those starter clutch bolts everyone talks about. Good thing I did. Two of them are completely sheered off and the third is stretched and worn nearly to the breaking point. The clutch looks OK. There is a little damage but not enough to concern me and nothing that should cause a problem as long as there are solid bolts in place.
Where is a good place to look for 12.9 grade bolts? Thats what was in there so I don't want to downgrade as I fix this. I checked my local hardware store and they top out at 11.xx.

P.S. if this motivates you to do your own starter cluch then awsome. First though, read all the guides online (http://www.xz550.com/starterclutch.html), second be sure to place a rag underneath the flywheel as you pull it of (when it pops, springs and rollers go everywhere!) and third I rented a high quality Harmonic Balancer Puller from Shucks for $6 with an $80 refundable deposit. I had to pick up one more screw (90mm x 8x1.25) as they only provide 2 of the three you need, go figure, but it worked like a charm and since this is the one and only time I'll be doing this (fingers crossed) $6 was a hell of a deal.

[Tiger]

 :) I've done three starter clutch fixes, (on three seperate "V"s)... ;) I have got it down to under 2 hour's to complete...not a hard job as such. You just have to make sure that you have all you need ready...Tool's, gasket, Red thread locker, an old bath towel/folded sheet to put under the engine...stops parts rolling away into the dark corners of your work area :D :D ;), oil/oil filter, etc...NOTE: DO NOT FORGET to make a rough template of the left side cover, (cereal box, sheet cardboard, etc), punch out the bolt hole's and insert each bolt that you remove into the hole's...that way you return the right size bolt back to its right place ;)

The three metric hex socket cap screw's that you need should be available at Home Depot/Lowe's, etc... If not, try an industrial supplier...check under Fasteners-Industrial in your yellow page's.

:) Have fun... ;)

             8).......TIGER....... 8)

[Night Vision]

one difficulty doing the starter clutch bolts is the length of the bolts themselves...

you can easily get the same length that were in there..... but you want a 1 or 2 mm longer bolt...
they usually come in 5mm increments. This means you need to get longer than stock bolts, grind or hacksaw them down to length and then crosscut with a dremel so you can take a punch to the "X" and peen them out... don't forget to put a chaser nut on the bolts before cutting  to clean up the threads, and of course use the red glue.

When Don V was getting ready for the CO ride, I sent him a set that I had already made for my project bike..he was getting ripped off for metric bolts from wherever. Well he needed the metric bolts for the puller too.....

I think the bolts were right around $0.33ea plus the labor which was right around 3 beers.... hey, I took my time and did a nice job :D

[QBS]

Be sure to very carfully inspect the clutch housing for cracks and the rollers for flat spots.  Cracked housings will slip, for sure.

[tben]

I've no problem with cutting the bolts down, I have a dremel and a bench grinder.

QBS: My clutch housing is cracked at one of three holes around the side, and it slips about 1/16 of a turn around the piece that is bolted to the flywheel. Is this a problem?

[QBS]

Bad news, yes.  Some have had success with welding their cracks.  Most have not.  Only other alternative is an uncracked replacement, which is what I would do in this situation.  I think clutch housings are still dealer available.  But I would try to find used.

If caught before 25k miles, loose starter clutches rarely have cracked housings.

[Aelwulf]

*sigh* Think another example of me doing things the hard way.  I ordered replacement stock ones for the clutch bolts, guessing might as well toss 'em if everyone's getting the non-stock?  I finally got a puller, bought the Craftsman one linked in one of the other threads.

[h2olawyer]

The whole point of the fix is to install slightly longer than stock bolts.  The problem of them coming loose is caused by the originals being a couple threads too short to be adequately peened.

Sorry you ordered the OEM bolts -- at least you have an unmolested bolt to use as a model & cut the new ones you get from the hardware store @ 2 or 3 threads longer.  Hope they weren't too expensive!

H₂O

[Aelwulf]

NAw, coupla bucks each.  I thought the problem was just them working out period, and peening was just a staple of the fix. :( Ah well, should help having an example when going down to NAPA or Fastenal as well.

[tben]

I'm having trouble finding a replacement gasket. Are they still available? If not, what do you guys do? I am considering finding gasket material and cutting  my own or using liquid gasket, I have some already but the shop guy I always talk to was hesitant about advising that because the liquid stuff can get into oil pathways and block the flow.

[67GTO]

Can you post the size of the bolts you find and their hardness? Also where you found them?

(I need to do this job yet :))

[Rick G]

Tben,ysppart.com seem to have them for 7.45 . if not I'll make you one I ahve all the punches and the pattern to make it from. Stay away from gasket goop, it can end up in oil passage ways .

[pullshocks]

I made my own from sheet gasket material from Schucks.  It sealed up just fine, but was a long and nerve wracking process to cut it out accurately, especially the bolt holes.  One slip of the knife and all your work is toast.  I have one of the cometic gaskets on hand and I can trace it onto the Schucks gasket material for you, but my advice is wait the extra week or 2 and order from YSPPART or Cometic.

Also, get a bunch of long m6 bolts, cut the heads off and screw them in to the block finger tight to hold the gasket in alignment and guide the side cover into place.  Once the cover is lined up, start swapping in the real bolts.

[Walt_M.]

I wonder how many besides me are saying, 'doh' and hitting themselves in the forehead over the long bolt idea? FWIW, I used red permatex gasket 4 yrs ago when I last had my side cover off. The idea is to use a very thin bead, use too much and it can block the oil passages.

[tben]

Thanks guys, I think I'll go to Schucks tomorrow and try my hand at gasket making.

Pullshocks: thanks for the tip with the screws, thats a great idea.

67GTO: as I keep going I'll post what I found works.

Rick G: what kind of punches do you use?

[don_vanecek]

And don't get fooled like I did where I put the flywheel back on and it turned out the bolt was not screwed in all the way!  I still wonder what I did wrong-and it still scares me that the threads are damaged.  Just a refresher, I did the starter clutch this spring, that center bolt screwed on very tight-thought I had it on all the way-go to start the engine, terrible noise-take the side cover back off-did several more turns of the screw-turned very hard. I wonder if the threads were damaged by the sacrificial bolt??

Anyway, it has held up now for several thousand miles since then.

[Aelwulf]

I've caught several references to this sacrificial bolt, should we get four or is that something with the puller?

[QBS]

Pullshocks: Great tip.  Thanks.

[don_vanecek]

I believe (someone correct me if I have this wrong) but the sacrificail bolt is mainly to keep the puller from going down into your crank.

[Tiger]

I believe (someone correct me if I have this wrong) but the sacrificail bolt is mainly to keep the puller from going down into your crank.

:) Curlyrect Don... ;)