Suspension upgrades

[tben]

So, my next step is to upgrade the suspension on my V. Here is what I am thinking. If you have any advice or feedback please let me know.

1. Steering Stem Bearings

2. New fork seals (one if mine is cracked and leaking fluid)

3. XS 650 Cartridge emulator from Mike's XS (from what I read in other posts this should fit right?)

4. '83 rear shock

I've been scouring ebay and have yet to find an '83. Is there a visual way to tell the difference between the two? If I remember right the '83 has better damping. I would like this and I am also thinking about finding a stiffer spring to put on it. My '82 sags quite a bit even at the stiffest setting and bottoms out easily. I imagine it is just old and worn and cant handle my 210 lbs.

Does this look like a complete list? Like I said, any advice is appreciated. 8)

[h2olawyer]

The 83 shock has a plastic adjusting dial around the top of the shock.  This adjusts the damping.  Preload adjusts the same as the 82 pogo stick.

H₂O

[Rick G]

Tben, '83 shocks are scarce , just keep looking.  You shouldn't need a heavier spring I have my '83 shock set on the next to stiffest setting and I'm 245. I believe Fox made a shock for the vision , but these are even more rare.

[supervision]

 The picture of kiwi's emulators that are the # for rz 350, look perfect.  The one from the xs 650 are the one's I put in my forks. They maybe, could of benifited, from a little better adaptation to the top of the damper rod.  At the time I bought them I paid $150 to get them.  Mike must have bought a BUNCH of them to be able to sell for $ 49. If I was going to do it again, I'd gladly pay, $ 49
  For a cost effective shock, Extent's conversion makes sence.   For example I just replaced the non rebuildable shock on my xr 200r, with one of an older xr250, that is rebuildable, and it also has rebound and compression damping. I got it on ebay for next to nothing and had it rebuilt, total cost $150   

[Glyn]

I 've got a Triumph T600 shock on mine. Needs a few mods to fit but pretty basic really. I can send you instructions if you're interested.

[pullshocks]

I just sent Fox an e-mail asking if they would do a run of the shocks for a group order.

I use their stuff on mountain bikes and I think it is tops.

[joevacc]

One thing that does not seem to be considered here is the fact that all of these shocks are 26 years old!  It does not matter if you put an '83 shock on - because it has long out lived it's usefulness.

Can the '83 shock be rebuilt?  I thought that the '82 could not.

If it can't be rebuilt, you will be trading beans for beans.

I have put the Works shock in my bike to great effect.  I know that Night Vision has an after market shock in his '82 that makes his bike handle like mine.  Both of these alternatives are rebuildable!

This is a more expensive option but will actually do the job at hand.

Food for thought.

P.S.  I could not bring myself to throw away my old shock I have it still in the box with most all of the parts I have taken off of the bike over the years.

Good luck,

jv

[pullshocks]

I got a nice response from Fox, but it would have to be a pretty big group buy (in the thousands of units) to get them interested.

[kwells]

ha

[Rick G]

Joe , not all shocks (even 24 year old shocks)  receive the same use (or misuse), my 83 shock is so much better , than the 82 pogo stick  it came with. The 82 shocks I had ranged from 17,000 miles to 35,000. and all were awful. They were awful when new. I'll keep looking for a T600 shock, and be glad to have a  '83 shock for now.

[Glyn]

If anyone would like my pics of my conversion, please e mail me at

pickteam@xnet.co.nz

I will compare the T600 length to the Vision shock length tonight. I think it is marginally longer but has a seperate remote damper mechanism.

[VisionMeister]

I think an RZ350 shock may/will fit. With a stiffer spring and damping adjusted to match it may be a viable option.
My 83 shock also still works excellent and is probably a better street shock than my Fox shock. This one was a twin clicker and came with a spring. $550.00 in 1990. Springs to stiff for the street.
I had an older Fox shock (single clicker) which used the stock Vision spring. It was much more compliant and was amazing the difference good damping could make in what had been a pogo stick. I sold it with my original Vision in 1987.

[Night Vision]

The 82 XZ550 is 12.5" long
The 83 XZ550 is 13.5" long

The 84-85 RZ350 is 11.5" long and for a linked suspension so I'm not so sure that would work so good.

On SmokeBomb, I have a single clicker (on the remote reservoir) Fox Shox that I got rebuilt... Kenny has the same. It's a good shock but I believe the clicker adjusts only the compression, not the damping (rebound)

The problem, as Glen and others found out, is the 12.5-13.5" length.... there's not a lot of other good shocks that are that length.... Triumph does seem to be the closest match, Ducati might be a touch short, but again, these modern shocks are designed for linked suspensions so I don't know if their travel and spring rates would be compatable... Glyn seems to like his.

Then you get into eye diameters and mounting widths.... Glyn has worked around that.

The last I saw, a Works Performance shock, like Joe V's was $350.00
Wilbers makes a kickazz shock for maybe $550-$600?

A group buy on the Wilbers would be more feasible than Fox, so it seems... but I don't invision a lot of ROVers willing to put a $600 shock on their $500 Vision  ::)

[kwells]

yeh but then they would have an 1100.00 Vision right?

Good handling for 600.00 is not expensive really.  Doesn't matter what some schmo on the street would give you for it.  You still have to be the one to trust the bike.

[EH]

Just found yssusa.com. They make suspension components and a type of cartridge emulator in many sizes.

[Night Vision]

yeh but then they would have an 1100.00 Vision right?

Good handling for 600.00 is not expensive really.  Doesn't matter what some schmo on the street would give you for it.  You still have to be the one to trust the bike.

agreed.... I have a "price point" of $1750 for a "personally" restored/refreshed/updated Vision...... I realize others may not see the value, but I don't care..... where else can you find a bike like the Vision in the $1500-$2000 price range? Check eBay and see whats out there.....

that's why I didn't mind putting a $900 exhaust on my $150 "StinkBomb" project bike... even with the $300 Euro paint set, I'm ..... well, then there was the...... and then the ..... ah, who cares!!!!!!!!

[Cdnlouie]

NV, when I replaced my 82 shock with an 83 I checked the length and it was exactly the same, no difference.  I remember someone in posts a few years back saying that the 82 and 83 shocks were different sizes so I made a point to check it when I changed mine.  My Canadian 82 and the US 83 shock were exactly the same length ????

Any idea what might be up?

[Night Vision]

those lengths were from the Works spec sheet.

But I did stand an 82 shock up against an 83 the other night and the 83 was longer....
didn't look like a full inch, but it was definitely longer.

I will have an 83 shock available in a couple of months.... but don't get too excited. I has a small rust spot on the chrome plunger and will come complete with a broken toothed adjusting ring...

The ring isn't a big deal, I don't know if the rough spot would make it unfunctionable or if it could be polished out.... I figure I'll put it up for auction here and donate the proceeds to the site... whatever it's worth...

[Rick G]

I didn't compare the two when I installed the '83 shock, but I had to lower the jack , supporting the swing arm, to get it in place, just a bit.

[joevacc]

Joe , not all shocks (even 24 year old shocks)  receive the same use (or misuse), my 83 shock is so much better , than the 82 pogo stick  it came with. The 82 shocks I had ranged from 17,000 miles to 35,000. and all were awful. They were awful when new. I'll keep looking for a T600 shock, and be glad to have a  '83 shock for now.

I did not mean to give the impression that "all' old shocks are done.  If there is no sign of leakage and the unit has low mileage on it then you may get some more use out of it.  One thing I have learned about shocks is that the rarely just give up the ghost.  They wear our progressively and if you are riding it often you will adjust to the varying effectiveness of the unit.

I have literally replaced hundreds and hundreds of shocks and struts in my life and well know that all shocks/ struts are not created equally.

I let my shock go until 20,000 miles on my V. I was impressed that it lasted that long.  I have never compared the 82 to 83 shock so I can't speak to the improvement of the switch.  I personally don't think I would change the geometry of the bike because I have never thought that the 82 had any handling problems.  (except for the head bearings)

I am very interested in the cartridge emulators though!  Has anyone actually installed a set yet??  I have the progressive springs in my bike and think that the improvement is significant to the OEM springs.  That said, I don't think that the Progressive Springs are the be all end all set up.  I do think that maybe the combination of the two may be the ticket!?

I guess all we need is the specs of our forks to see if there is a set available?  I would love to do more research on the matter.

Ciao for now,
JV


P.S.  suspensions are near and dear to my heart.  I feel that I have got mine very sorted.  I would do anything to make it better.
P.S.S.  my '07 bike is faster and more stable than my V but...  it's not as much better as I expected it to be.  The Vision was and is ahead of it's time.