My NEW front brakes

[jasonm.]

I can send card board cut out templates. They may not be perfectly exact. +/- 1mm would be the error. It usually shows up on the lowest caliper bolt.
  I am still doing a small MOD. I am adding a bit of material where the caliper bolts got thru. This will allow the use of nice flange shoulder bolts. Like adding a permanent 1/4" thick washer. Wish me luck at this. I already messed up the originals and have made a second set. The trick is to weld the added material carefully. 
   Yes, it stops better than my '83 stock setup w/"HH" pads. And these are used "FF" pads that have 60 miles on these R1 rotors. SO when they fully seat. It will be a joy. The pads in the calipers are only "FF" rating. SO Stoppies would be easy with a pad upgrade. But stoppies is not the idea here. It's safety and control.

[QBS]

First off:  Jason you are a Vnary among Vnaries.  An outstanding upgrade breakthrough.  Reminds me a lot of something that Ron McCoy would do, and that is high praise indeed.

One thing I see in your upgrade is the potential for a really great upgrade for '82s.  If an R1 rotor and SV650 caliper could be bolted onto the '82 fork leg, your upgrade with a stainless hydraulic line and aggressive pads would probably double the stopping power of the stock '82 set up.  Maybe even approach the power of the stock '83 set up.

Aside from your time, what was the cost breakdown of the upgrade?

[YellowJacket!]

and since they are newer and more readily available, at a much lower cost than trying to find a good working set of 83' parts.

Ditto to QBS's statement.  ;D

David

[Ron_McCoy]

Nice work!   ;D ;D ;D

[h2olawyer]

I'd call it "Piston Envy".   :D

While I really like the 83 dual disc system on my 82, I found them lacking last summer when I was doing some track riding.  Although I wasn't really going for it, I still felt some fade when slowing at the end of the long straight.  However, for general road riding, the 83 dual system with braided stainless lines works well - especially for my conservative riding style.

H₂O

[kwells]

ur not conservative...U are just speed impaired

[Extent]

Dang, I'm definitely going to have to do this.  I wonder how much it would cost to get a machine shop to cut out a bunch of those.  That might be worth pursuing if anyone knows of any.

I really want to get me a CNC mill.

[jasonm.]

Here's some more info. First set as I said earlier. I did attempt to weld some material on, and warped the steel. This is/was to allow use of full width 10mm shoulder bolts. If you know a little about physics. You want the adapter here without question, to control the caliper and to spread the load as evenly as possible. So in the area of the caliper it is actually NOW 1/2" thick steel(2 x 1/4").Which  I arc(stick) welded. Not something I would recommend for the amatuer welder. I am not an expert. But I got it done as the very last step.  The basics are below.
  I used 2.5"w x 1/4" thick steel approx. 5"long. I soldered the pieces together at the 2 corners I would cut last. And drilled the holes right after soldering. This allowed me to clamp these together w/bolts and nuts. This allow me to cut and grinded the pieces together. 6' piece of steel cost $13, I had many spare bolts in my home woirk shop. But the grade 10.9 nuts were 1.25 x 10mm and $1.30 ea. x 4. You should always use flange bolt grade 10.9 and shoulder bolts if possible to eliminate any drift or play . Some true value hardware stores carry them.  Yes, the R1 rotors from 2001-2003 do bolt in. I believe R6 will do the same. R1 rotors cost me $40 to my door and are within spec. and very nice overall shape.   After 2003 I think they went to a 5 bolt set up...which of course won't work. There are many other rotors with the same pattern. But the R1 and R6 are the lightest. The big 298mm R1 rotor weighs the same as the little 267mm '83 rotor. The pads on the SV650 being thin top to bottom, they only cover 80% of the available area of the rotor.It's still great. The calipers came off a 600 Katana actually, but are the same as an SV650. These were virtually new another $40 + shipping. Which I have had sitting for years waiting to be used when I had the time or energy to do it. And now there are 3.5" pads on the edge of the rotor. Which is better than the relatively square pads that are on the Vision . ANd yes these saved my butt yesterday. I made the tire howl ...I had to... The feeling are very "progressive" with the "feedback" so many magazines talk about. I may step up to "GG" pads. But these have not seated yet. So I should know in a few weeks..Tools required: power saw(sawzall), hand grinder or die grinder, drill press, a high speed sander(belt sander) and the arc welder..Bottom line...this was a $100 upgrade. ..till I change pads. I'll try to get an updated pic out to N.V.

[Night Vision]

here's Jason's lastest rendering.... more meat (look behind the shoulder bolts) and shoulder bolts in front of the more meat...

[acee125]

Any short term update on how the brakes are holding up? I wonder how much harder if at any it would be to fab up a bracket to fit an R1 caliper. Also, has anyone used a master cylinder/lever assembly off of a newer bike like a V-Star or even an R1 or R6? I would assume that it would be better due to technology adavances and higher fluid capacity.

[Cdnlouie]

Good research and innovation on that one Jason!  Some days I wish I could just wander into a junk yard and bring all kinds of goodies out to see just how nice they can work on a Vision.  Great to have the info, it may inspire more creativity in this department.

Hope to see the old girl again soon!  ;D  I will have to make sure I don't ride behind you any more just in case you decide to stop quick  ::)

[jasonm.]

First, at 200 miles I suspect the pads are almost seated. The set up is very "friendly" to the rider. Meaning you don't have to squeeze and then wait for a result. It's instantanious. But being "FF" pads they are not overly grabby. Yet, I can go blazing fast on twisty roads with just a finger or 2 on the lever to create the "G forces" needed to cut speed dramatically.
  For those with '82's , sorry this may not work because the '82 has the caliper mounts higher due to the stock 298mm rotor. Thus the mount I made would have to be altered. If I get the time...I will do a basic check on the spare '82 forks I have to see what can be done.
Also, R1 4 piston calipers are WIDER than the 2 piston type I used. I did try a 4 piston that came off my Venture on my '82. It is so wide it hits the wheel "spokes" and I had to "off center the caliper. Which is not ideal.
  I have not measured an R1 caliper width...so I may be wrong on this "hitting spokes". I do know if it will properly center over the rotor and clears the wheel...a mount is possible. The R1 mounting holes are quite wide apart = 4". Thus requiring a larger piece steel than what I used or something welded together. Which I did with the Venture Caliper some 5 years ago. I still have that bracket I welded. If anyone finds an R1 caliper and it clears the wheel. My bracket plus bolts may be all you need for your '82.
  NV will get to test my brakes in a couple weeks.

[acee125]

  For those with '82's , sorry this may not work because the '82 has the caliper mounts higher due to the stock 298mm rotor.

Sorry if this question is extremely ignorant...so the dual 83 discs are 267mm and the single 82 disc is 298mm? Wouldn't that mean that an 2001-2003 R1 disc could be a direct replacement for an 82?

[jasonm.]

not exactly. The pad area of the R1 rotors is smaller. Meaning your pads will hit the buttons that allow the rotor to float. You would need to trim the pad down on a grinder. WHICH I do NOT recommend.

[Tanno]

Is there no fear of stopping too fast? Are the V forks okay for the stress of stoppies?

[jasonm.]

I ain't doing stoppies. At my age and experience...I am not needing to be a "show off". The forks on a Vision if fully compressed are less than 1" from the lower triple tree. I don't believe that short bit will bend. Like I said, the idea of stoppies was not the reason for this. Decceleration and the ability to control will save your life more times than acceleration ability. Just ride a modern sport bike and you'll understand.  FYI, stoppies require a sticky tire like modern sport bikes. I don't know of one yet that would be sticky enough.  I can say, I have locked the front tire a few times during my testing on dry pavement and got that "chirp".  How many here can say the same on dry pavement with their Vision ?

[kwells]

I've locked up the front at low speed in my apt complex when I was testing my new pads/tire combo.  82 setup.

[Tanno]

Ok. I was just curious. I understand the need to stop as soon as you think it (in some cases).

[QBS]

I'm not sure if factory recommended size front rubber would provide enough traction to support a stoppy.  It would probably just lock up and slide.  In which case you better be getting off the brake asap before the front end slides out from under the bike.

[jasonm.]

I had a Suzi 1100 some 25+ years ago. I could lock the front tire at ANY given speed. As long as I was going straight and level the front would be stable for a second. It was funny at 60mph, leaving black stripes with the front tire, not the rear. But this was just a test of limits. "if you don't know your limits they can scare you at the worst time." I still don't know the limits of the present brake set up. I do know, it's very satisfying. ;D