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Resurrecting an '83. Need some advice.

Started by Windjammer, May 03, 2008, 10:57:13 PM

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Windjammer

I had an '82 vision in my senior year of high school and owned it for about 6 years before I sold it and moved on to bigger, better and faster toys. 20 years, a wife, a house, 3 kids and 2 dogs later, and I find myself looking to recapture my youth, starting with an '83 Vision off of ebay. The machine is in fantastic shape cosmetically, but isn't running. The previous owner bought it from the original owner about 4 years ago and intended to go through it, but never did. Or he did, in so much as he took the carb apart and lost a few parts before losing interest. Anyway, that's where I'm starting. I received the carbs all apart in a box. I think all that I'm missing is one of the main jets and the fuel sensor that should fit inside the tank, but I suspect once I get into it more, I'll have a lot of questions.

Can anyone tell me where where I'd find jets for an '83? Is it worth buying the Keyster Carb kit from ebay? Is it realistic to try and find a fuel sensor for a bike that was made only one year?

Thanks for any advice.

YellowJacket!

Hey windjammer and congrats on getting your childhood dream back.
And...welcome to ROV

There will be lots of posts with answers for you but search around and you will find lots of the stuff you need.

David


Living the dream - I am now a Physician Assistant!!   :-)

Rick G

#2
Welcome aboard !!  Are you referring to the fuel gage sensor in the gas tank?
The price of Keysters carb kits has gone through the roof, but I believe they come with jets.
Someone on this forum may have some jets (maybe me).
Parts for '83 carbs are are as abundant as hens teeth. But you could install a set of '82 carbs instead.  There's nothing wrong with the '82's , that carefull syncing and adjustment wont cure. There  all over the place and cheap.
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

Windjammer

Thanks. I read through quite a few threads here and it seems like a really great group. I'm looking forward to participating. I'm documenting the whole project with pictures, I'll post a few as I get further into it.

I like the color scheme on your bike! I resurrected an '88 Honda NX650 last year and had it painted in school bus yellow - it looks great. That bike was only made in 88 and 89. Guess I'm a glutton for punishment when it comes to rebuilding odd bikes. Maybe I should choose a mid-nineties CBR600 next time  :)  Nah, what fun would that be?...

-matt

Windjammer

Thanks, Rick. I considered picking up a set of carbs on ebay from an '82 and I may still do that. I remember back to my old 82 and the 4000 rpm stumble. It seems to me that I read somewhere that the 83 carb added some sort of vacuum that fixed this. That stumble was really my only complaint of the 82. Wish I'd never sold it now.

Yep, you're right on on the gauge sensor. I'm guessing one of those is probably worth it's weight in gold right now.

Anyway, the carb looks really pretty clean and almost complete, so I'm hoping that with a little guidance from some of the gurus here that I might have a real shot of getting it working. I also have the factory service manual and it looks like that details most of the disassembly & reassembly really well. After reading it a couple hundred times, I might even figure it out ;-)

Are the jets the same between the 82's and 83's?

-matt

Quote from: Rick G on May 03, 2008, 11:09:19 PM
Welcome aboard !!  Are you referring to the fuel gage sensor in the gas tank?
The price of Keysters carb kits has gone through the roof, but I believe they come with jets.
Someone on this forum may have some jets (maybe me).
Parts for '83 carbs are are as abundant as hens teeth. But you could install a set of '82 carbs instead.  There's noting wrong with the '82's  that carefull syncing and adjustment wont cure. There  all over the place and cheap.

h2olawyer

The fuel sender that mounts in the tank is difficult to find - but not impossible.  Keep an eye on eBay.  I think I may have a non-functioning one lying around as well.  Need to go through the parts and make an inventory.  I'll let you know if I have it if you're interested in one that may need a new resistor / diode or whatever is blown on it.

The jets are the same type on both years but the sizes are different.

Welcome to the group & good luck restoring that 83!

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

Windjammer

Wow! That'd be great. I'm a database programmer by trade, but I have buddies that are electronic engineers and I bet they could help me figure out how to fix the sensor you have. Let me know if you locate it. Before I dove in, I laid out all of the carb parts on the counter and took a pictures of them. I may have to post a few stupid "um, what's this thingy" questions.

I looked at the one jet that I do have and it was stamped with 180. Does that sound about right for the 83?


Quote from: h2olawyer on May 03, 2008, 11:25:34 PM
The fuel sender that mounts in the tank is difficult to find - but not impossible.  Keep an eye on eBay.  I think I may have a non-functioning one lying around as well.  Need to go through the parts and make an inventory.  I'll let you know if I have it if you're interested in one that may need a new resistor / diode or whatever is blown on it.

The jets are the same type on both years but the sizes are different.

Welcome to the group & good luck restoring that 83!

H2O

Lucky

I have the 83 jet you need. soon as you figure out which one.  make sure the 'missing' one isn't still in there.

for gods sake be careful with 2 parts of that 83 carb:
1) don't break a float or float post (part that the float pivot pin goes thru)
2) the control valve on top of the rear accelerator pump. it's a multipart valve with a diaphram.  if you try to unscrew the bolt holding the diaphram together it'll probably break.  chances are it's fine anyway, leave it alone.
3) don't bother taking the dual diaphram apart on the back of the petcock (flat plate with 6 screws and 2 round castings on it)  only 2 or 3 of us have the custom homemade tools to recreate that diaphram (& #2 above) & the results are hit or miss.

all these parts are UNOBTANIUM & your very possably screwed without them.

scared yet? good, be scared, but also, don't worry, we won't let an 83 die for some small part...

--Lucky
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

Lucky

i'd take a shot at rewinding the sender, it's just a simple rheostat wire...
1982/3 XZ550 Touring Vison, Gold on Black

ps2/bikevision


Windjammer

Sheesh! Gave me goosebumps!! :)  Yah, I'm gonna go ahead and post a couple of pictures. The floats both looked good and seem to function well, so I won't touch. The factory manual has a ten page section on what to take apart and check, but I'd much rather take the advice of someone who's done it, and if you say don't touch this or that, consider it done.

I'm in the processor of treating the tank right now. Got to get rid of the failing "Kreem" job first and then I'm going to try the Caswell epoxy treatment. BTW, 5 gallons of acetone is not cheap these days!

Thanks very much for your advice!

Here's my three kids on the bike when I got it home last weekend.


And here's the carb bits and pieces.


So if you look in the lower left hand corner of the picture, I'm missing one of the jets. Dumb question, but the jet isn't just the head of that long piece, right? It is over 2 inches long, correct?

Thanks.

Quote from: Lucky on May 03, 2008, 11:53:30 PM
I have the 83 jet you need. soon as you figure out which one.  make sure the 'missing' one isn't still in there.

for gods sake be careful with 2 parts of that 83 carb:
1) don't break a float or float post (part that the float pivot pin goes thru)
2) the control valve on top of the rear accelerator pump. it's a multipart valve with a diaphram.  if you try to unscrew the bolt holding the diaphram together it'll probably break.  chances are it's fine anyway, leave it alone.
3) don't bother taking the dual diaphram apart on the back of the petcock (flat plate with 6 screws and 2 round castings on it)  only 2 or 3 of us have the custom homemade tools to recreate that diaphram (& #2 above) & the results are hit or miss.

all these parts are UNOBTANIUM & your very possably screwed without them.

scared yet? good, be scared, but also, don't worry, we won't let an 83 die for some small part...

--Lucky

Windjammer

Yessir, that's the one. It was within a few hours driving distance from me and I wasn't going to let it get away.

-matt

Quote from: ps2 on May 04, 2008, 12:05:25 AM
welcome to the board. by any chance is this the 83 you just got? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AB%3ASS%3AUS%3A1123&viewitem=&item=110244113918

h2olawyer

Check the diagram in your manual.  The jets are small brass parts, maybe 1/4 inch long, tops.  The ones in the carb tops are 140s (on 83s).  There are two more jets - inside the carb bodies, where those brass plug bolts fit.  Yhe other two are the small tube like ones in the lower left of your photo.

I think I found a way to fix the delicate posts, so if the worst should happen, it can be fixed.  If this method doesn't hold, I have a couple more ideas that will definitely work - just require more work than I wanted to attempt right now.

H2O
If you have an accident on a motorcycle, it's always your fault. Tough call, but it has to be that way. You're in the right, and dead -on a bike. The principle is not to have any accident. If you're involved in an an accident, it's because you did not anticipate. Then, by default, you failed.

Rick G

The brass tube that's about 1.5 inches long , that you have only one of ,is the emulsion tube .  You will need two of those, maybe Lucky has one .
Fine family you have there!
Rick G
Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there in lurks the skid demon
'82.5 Yamaha XZ550 RJ  Vision,
'90 Suzuki VX800, 1990 Suzuki DR350.
'74  XL350   Honda , 77 XL350 Honda, 78 XL350 Honda, '82 XT 200 Yamaha, '67 Yamaha YG1TK, 80cc trail bike

Windjammer

Gotcha. Thanks, H2O. I'll check them tomorrow. I'm definitely missing one of the internal jets then - not sure about the main jets.

-m@


Quote from: h2olawyer on May 04, 2008, 12:39:31 AM
Check the diagram in your manual.  The jets are small brass parts, maybe 1/4 inch long, tops.  The ones in the carb tops are 140s (on 83s).  There are two more jets - inside the carb bodies, where those brass plug bolts fit.  Yhe other two are the small tube like ones in the lower left of your photo.

I think I found a way to fix the delicate posts, so if the worst should happen, it can be fixed.  If this method doesn't hold, I have a couple more ideas that will definitely work - just require more work than I wanted to attempt right now.

H2O

Tiger

 :) Hi and welcome to you and your fine looking Vision to the ROV family... 8)

It is always handy to know, as you don't mention it in your profile, were you are located. You may have one of us just around the corner that can help you!!

Lucky is our carb guru...it may pay you to fire off your carbs to him for a rebuild ;) Lucky also has a CD/DVD for sale. It consists of workshop and parts manual's, helpful advice, hint's, etc that will make life easier for you and your Vision... 8)

Once again welcome, were ever you are...

           8).......TIGER....... 8)
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming HOOOOYA lets go again baby !!!!!!

'82 Vision, Pearl Orange finish, lots of up-grades!!!

YellowJacket!

Quote from: Windjammer on May 03, 2008, 11:13:06 PM
Thanks. I read through quite a few threads here and it seems like a really great group. I'm looking forward to participating. I'm documenting the whole project with pictures, I'll post a few as I get further into it.

I like the color scheme on your bike! I resurrected an '88 Honda NX650 last year and had it painted in school bus yellow - it looks great. That bike was only made in 88 and 89. Guess I'm a glutton for punishment when it comes to rebuilding odd bikes. Maybe I should choose a mid-nineties CBR600 next time  :)  Nah, what fun would that be?...

-matt

heh heh...

If you are referring to the color scheme of the picture in my sig line, thats an old picture.  I have the most updated ones of the **mostly** (is a Vision ever finished) finished project.  Just below the picture is a link to my blog and lots of updated pics.

Looks like you got a great deal on your bike with lots of extra parts.  You have a great bike and with a little help from the guys here, you'll be riding it in no time.

Pay particular attention though to Luckys post (its stickied at the top) about replacing the brake bar bolt.  Very important.
Also, you have the shop manual, but if none of the guys above my post mentioned it, get in touch with lucky Click on his name in one of his posts) and order one of his DVD's.  It had a boatload of information to help you along as you work on your bike. (I used mine on an old laprop in my shop to refer to while I was restoring my bike)

Good luck to you!

David


Living the dream - I am now a Physician Assistant!!   :-)

Night Vision

here's an '83 emulsion tube:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/YAMAHA-XZ550RK-1983-CARBURETOR-EMULSION-TUBE-NOS-OEM_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1638Q2em118Q2el1247QQcategoryZ35581QQihZ024QQitemZ370033099704QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

looks like your rear drain line nipple is broken off, the front one is there. not a big deal to fix the rear one.

do you have the other rubber airbox/carb top boot?
how about the airbox itself...


as long as the carbs have the floats, and you get an emulsion tube, it looks like you'll be OK.

hold onto those extra 83 headpipes.... and hope that you won't need the spare stator soon  ;)

welcome aboard, let the games begin

if it ain't worth doing it the hard way....
it ain't worth doing it at all - Man Law
;D


if it ain't broke..... take it apart and find out why


don't give up.... don't ever give up - Jimmy Valvano

Windjammer

Wow!! You guys are incredible! Thanks very much for the advice & encouragement. I'll definitely be ordering Lucky's resource material. Someone asked where I was located. I live on the MN side of the river (the good side :) , near La Crosse, WI.

Yep, I looked in the manual and found that as the emulsion tube. I took a longer look at the carbs this morning and found a number of other things missing. I posted a picture below and numbered the bits in question. (Sorry for so many questions in one post.)

1. Drain Screw (missing both sides)

2. Main jet (missing for sure on the left side, but the right side is buggered and I haven't been able to get it out)
    Side note: Am I reading it right that this jet has a "plug" screw? So the jet goes in first, followed by the plug?

3. Same as 1 (Drain screw missing)

4.  (and 5) Is this where the Pilot Jets go? (the manual's a little hard to read on this)

6. Are these the pilot jets? (if so, then it looks like I'm missing their plugs)

7. Emulsion Tube (I'll order the replacement on ebay. Thanks!)

8. Looks like these are plugs for the drain screw and go into hole #3. Is that right?

9. Although they're pretty buggered up and I should probably locate replacements, these seem to be plugs for the pilot jets (holes 4 & 5). Is that right?


QBS

#19
Congratulations and good to have you here!  FYI, I am the second owner of an '83 with about 88K miles on it.  Bought the bike in 84'.

I noticed that your bike has 24K miles on it.  You need to determine whether or not the starter clutch has ever been reattached.  EVERY V left the factory with a defectively installed starter clutch.  Beginning at around 17K, a slight knocking sound may be noticed while the bike is idling.  It will get louder and louder as the miles add up.  Usually, by around 20k it is very pronounced.  By 27k it sounds as if a rod is fixin'(Texas word) to let go any second.  By 30k(if you get that far) the bike won't crankover.

What is happening is that due to the timing of the power impulses of our high compression V twin engine while idling, the starter clutch housing gradually works loose on its' mounting on the flywheel and moves around.  The more it moves, the looser it gets.  Until finally, the housing cracks and eventually, in the worse case scenario, is destroyed and the flywheel mounting threads get so wallowed out that the flywheel must be replaced..  The knocking sound that is heard is the housing moving against its' three attachment bolts.

The sure fire diagnosis is: The sound disappears above 2500 rpm.

Usually, if repaired by about 25 to 27k miles, the housing and the flywheel threads are salvageable and the repair is cheap.  Beyond that, start bringing $.

Based on what I've seen in junk yards, the vast majority of the Vs there all showed less than 30k miles, many with less than 17k.  I believe that many Vs were abandoned or junked when their loose starter clutches were misdiagnosed by misinformed mechanics as being bad rod or main bearings.  The cost of repair being seen as exceeding the value of the bike.  This no doubt added to the bad reputations these bikes had "back in the day".

There is very good news.  If repaired early enough, the cost is virtually 100% labour.  And, if done right, the repair is permanent.  I was blessed in that, with 27k miles on my bike, my local Yamadealers' excellent repair staff immediately recognized the problem for what it was and repaired it accordingly.  The starter clutch has been trouble free since then.