Resurrecting an '83. Need some advice.

[Lucky]

1 & 3 (larger) main jets go in here, than #8 plugs them
2 (&1, on the left) are the drain screws, they can be a pain to seal...
4&5 the pilots 6, go in here, 9 seals them up
7, one is missing
you should have 4 identical jets (not pictured) but have different numbers. two go in 1 & 3, two go in the top of the carb (round part)

--Lucky

[Windjammer]

Dang, that's a ton of miles! Good to know that I might be able to get that many out of her. So how can I determine if the starter clutch has been reattached? Just listen for the knocking at idle? I'll definitely pay attention to it. Thanks.

I always drooled over the 83 with the snazzy fairing when I had my '82. I showed somebody a pic of the "new" bike at work last week and they told me that it looked like something Captain America would've ridden. I was hoping for Hasselhoff, but hey, I can live with Captain America...  :)

Congratulations and good to have you here!  FYI, I am the second owner of an '83 with about 88K miles on it.  Bought the bike in 84'.

I noticed that your bike has 24K miles on it.  You need to determine whether or not the starter clutch has ever been reattached.  EVERY V left the factory with a defectively installed starter clutch.  Beginning at around 17K, a slight knocking sound may be noticed while the bike is idling.  It will get louder and louder as the miles add up.  Usually, by around 20k it is very pronounced.  By 27k it sounds as if a rod is fixin'(Texas word) to let go any second.  By 30k(if you get that far) the bike won't crankover.

What is happening is that due to the timing of the power impulses of our high compression V twin engine while idling, the starter clutch housing gradually works loose on its' mounting on the flywheel and moves around.  The more it moves, the looser it gets.  Until finally, the housing cracks and eventually, in the worse case scenario, is destroyed and the flywheel mounting threads get so wallowed out that the flywheel must be replaced..  The knocking sound that is heard is the housing moving against its' three attachment bolts.

The sure fire diagnosis is: The sound disappears above 2500 rpm.

Usually, if repaired by about 25 to 27k miles, the housing and the flywheel threads are salvageable and the repair is cheap.  Beyond that, start bringing $.

Based on what I've seen in junk yards, the vast majority of the Vs there all showed less than 30k miles, many with less than 17k.  I believe that many Vs were abandoned or junked when their loose starter clutches were misdiagnosed by misinformed mechanics as being bad rod or main bearings.  The cost of repair being seen as exceeding the value of the bike.  This no doubt added to the bad reputations these bikes had "back in the day".

There is very good news.  If repaired early enough, the cost is virtually 100% labour.  And, if done right, the repair is permanent.  I was blessed in that, with 27k miles on my bike, my local Yamadealers' excellent repair staff immediately recognized the problem for what it was and repaired it accordingly.  The starter clutch has been trouble free since then.

[Windjammer]

Lucky, that helps immensely. Thanks!

I just checked and I DO have both of the upper jets in place. I took them out at and looked at them - they both read 140.

So now begins the search for the missing and/or munged parts. I already nabbed the Emulsion Tube from ebay.

Do you suppose I could replace the pilot plug screws with a similar screw from a hardware store or are they a special material? (their heads are hosed)

Did you say that the two missing jets should be 130s?  I looked at the Keyster kit and it says it comes with a 130 and a 125. Are their kits spec'd differently? At $120 to do both carbs, it seems a little spendy...

Would you have any of these jets that you'd be willing to sell?

Thanks again,

-m@

1 & 3 (larger) main jets go in here, than #8 plugs them
2 (&1, on the left) are the drain screws, they can be a pain to seal...
4&5 the pilots 6, go in here, 9 seals them up
7, one is missing
you should have 4 identical jets (not pictured) but have different numbers. two go in 1 & 3, two go in the top of the carb (round part)

--Lucky

[QBS]

Regarding starter clutch repair status:

Contact previous owners if possible.  Beyond that, get the bike running and see what is sounds like.  If it sounds good, run it until it makes noise or the stator goes bad, which ever comes first.

If the stator fails first, when you remove the engine cover to replace it, inspect the starter clutch attachment bolts where they protrude through the flywheel.  If they've been penned over (the factory method wasn't penning and the recommended repair method is), the reattachment has been done.

If it starts knocking before the stator fails and it passes the over 2500 rpm diagnosis test,  you know that it hasn't been repaired.  What could happen from there is that you go to all the trouble to open and close the engine cover only to have the stator fail shortly thereafter.

It could be that the reason your bike left the road in the first place was that the starter clutch was knocking and the then current owner didn't want to put $ into repairing what he/she diagnosed as a bearing problem.  BTW, testing for stator failure is very easy and can be done without the bike running.  You might have a bad stator now.  If so, you can repair it and do the starter clutch inspection now, without having the bike running.

[h2olawyer]

Sirius Consolidated (the Keyster kit supplier) occasionally puts the 83 carb kits on eBay in a special deal.  I got the kits for both carbs & the fuel pump for something like $30.  Look through the "buy it now" section & you may find them.  I haven't looked for them since I got mine, but did notice them not too long ago.

H₂O

[Brian Moffet]

I noticed that your bike has 24K miles on it.  You need to determine whether or not the starter clutch has ever been reattached.  EVERY V left the factory with a defectively installed starter clutch.

Not necessarily true.  Good thing to pay attention to, but I wouldn't pull the thing until you start hearing noise.

Brian

[Brian Moffet]

Dang, that's a ton of miles! Good to know that I might be able to get that many out of her.

On the CROV ride, I just crossed 41,600 miles on my 83.

And if you need photos (I'll torture H20 with a photo of my carbs again :-) )  I have a bunch of a rebuild I did.  Click on the photo.



Brian

[h2olawyer]

No torture anymore, Brian - The exterior of my carbs look like new!  It's the insides that are the mess.  But, they're entirely apart now & gradually getting cleaner.  Should have dumped the rust dust into a bowl to get a photo of what came out.  For ease, I just dumped the stuff directly into the trash.

I still need to de-dent, strip, line & repaint my 83 tank before I even think of installing the carbs.  Going to be a while before that project is done.  Would like to have it by the end of this month, but since the bike runs well as is, it isn't the end of the world.  This is sure a difficult way to just get a fuel gauge on my V.   :D ;D

H₂O

[Brian Moffet]

You know, some people just open the tank and look.  Personally, I rock it side to side and listen to how much sloshing happens...

Brian

[Windjammer]

The previous owner robbed the stator off of this bike to fix an '82 that he had, so he bought a new and improved stator for this one, but never got around to putting it in. Yes, another item that's in a box right now. I guess it'll be a perfect opportunity to check the starter clutch.

Um, I'm not quite clear on what you mean by "penned over". Can you explain?

Thanks.

-m@

Regarding starter clutch repair status:

Contact previous owners if possible.  Beyond that, get the bike running and see what is sounds like.  If it sounds good, run it until it makes noise or the stator goes bad, which ever comes first.

If the stator fails first, when you remove the engine cover to replace it, inspect the starter clutch attachment bolts where they protrude through the flywheel.  If they've been penned over (the factory method wasn't penning and the recommended repair method is), the reattachment has been done.

If it starts knocking before the stator fails and it passes the over 2500 rpm diagnosis test,  you know that it hasn't been repaired.  What could happen from there is that you go to all the trouble to open and close the engine cover only to have the stator fail shortly thereafter.

It could be that the reason your bike left the road in the first place was that the starter clutch was knocking and the then current owner didn't want to put $ into repairing what he/she diagnosed as a bearing problem.  BTW, testing for stator failure is very easy and can be done without the bike running.  You might have a bad stator now.  If so, you can repair it and do the starter clutch inspection now, without having the bike running.

[Windjammer]

Cool! Thanks for the tip. I'll keep my eyes peeled for a deal on ebay.

I see the jets listed for about $10 on BikeBandit, so I might just go that route unless anyone can point me in a better direction.

Sirius Consolidated (the Keyster kit supplier) occasionally puts the 83 carb kits on eBay in a special deal.  I got the kits for both carbs & the fuel pump for something like $30.  Look through the "buy it now" section & you may find them.  I haven't looked for them since I got mine, but did notice them not too long ago.

H₂O

[Windjammer]

Awesome! Thanks, Brian. Those pics will be very handy reference for me.

Dang, that's a ton of miles! Good to know that I might be able to get that many out of her.

On the CROV ride, I just crossed 41,600 miles on my 83.

And if you need photos (I'll torture H20 with a photo of my carbs again :-) )  I have a bunch of a rebuild I did.  Click on the photo.



Brian

[Rick G]

Thats just a typo, they should be peaned over. Take a chisel and hammer and make three cuts around the edge of the bolt , then a drift and mushroom the end over.

[Windjammer]

Ok, I'll take a look. Basically, the idea is to keep the nut from being able to come off easily, right?

Thats just a typo, they should be peaned over. Take a chisel and hammer and make three cuts around the edge of the bolt , then a drift and mushroom the end over.

[Windjammer]

FYI, I think I've found the jets that I need (130s) here on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mikuni-Sm-Round-N102-221-Main-Jet-Fuel-Jets-Carburetor_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35597QQihZ007QQitemZ170214272635QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

-m@

[Brian Moffet]

You can also buy them (the normal jets) at the motorcycle shop, they're standard size.  Mikuni I think?  I think I paid around 5.00 for the one I needed.  Not the Emulsion tube though.

Brian

[Lucky]

your pilot jet caps can be made useable by cutting a new slot with a dremil tool.  they may be the same as 82's if so i have a few spares. i'll check.

[Windjammer]

Cool. I'll check with the local shop. Guess I just figured that anything for this bike would be hard to find and/or special order at this point. :)

You can also buy them (the normal jets) at the motorcycle shop, they're standard size.  Mikuni I think?  I think I paid around 5.00 for the one I needed.  Not the Emulsion tube though.

Brian

[Windjammer]

Thanks for the tip. I can make that work on one of them, but the other is pretty messed up.

your pilot jet caps can be made useable by cutting a new slot with a dremil tool.  they may be the same as 82's if so i have a few spares. i'll check.

[Rick G]

OK, I'll take a look. Basically, the idea is to keep the nut from being able to come off easily, right?

Thats just a typo, they should be peaned over. Take a chisel and hammer and make three cuts around the edge of the bolt , then a drift and mushroom the end over.

yes, thats the idea. I also use green locktite, its the one that takes an act of congress to get off.