Carburetor testing

[h2olawyer]

I've always had a bit of stumble I just can't tune away.  It comes & goes sporadically, but usually hits at the worst moments.  Tractor was running great last year before it got laid down & hit a dirt berm.  Anyway, I decided to try those carbs on Silver V.  Did the full swap tonight, along with cleaning up & installing my 83 airbox & cleaning / re-oiling the UNI air filter.

Tractor had an awesome low range - much better than Silver V.  Will see how that goes when I go for a test ride tomorrow.  The top end on both was similar (seat of pants only).

Sunday is a large group ride - normally over 75 bikes - from Timberline Church up to the Alpine Visitor Center in Rocky Mountain National Park.  Since my trip to Elkhart Lake, WI got cancelled, I'll be able to make this ride.  I want to make sure the carb swap will work first, so I'm doing that same ride tomorrow.  Need to get an annual national Parks Pass anyway.

Part of my slow riding is my distrust of when that carb stumble will hit.  I use too much of my $10 of concentration on that issue when I could better spend it concentrating on my lean, body position and line through the turns.  (Yes, I'm currently reading Keith Code's book.   ;D )

H₂O

[pullshocks]

When I talked to John Clemens last year, he said the way to get rid of stumble is to adjust the accelerator pump.  As I recall the factory adjustment is held in place with some kind of glue, and I would think it would be pretty easy to really screw things up, but maybe if you changed the adjustment in really tiny increments you could at least get back where you started.

[h2olawyer]

Thanks for the info - Knowledge from Mr. Clemens is always appreciated.

Accel pump adjustment on mine has never been touched.  Nice to be the original owner.   ;D  I might play with that later.

I've also got a set of 83 carbs to finish tearing down , cleaning & rebuilding.  There's one jet that's being cantankerous to get out.  I have an EZ out on it, but don't want to put too much pressure on it.  May have to remove the butterfly & put the thing in an oven to loosen it up.  Tried PB Blaster, but I think it's the dissimilar metals & not corrosion.  Pot metal & brass expand at different rates when heated & the oven trick has always worked before.

Anyway, the carbs that were on Tractor were stronger from idle than my originals ever were.  Much less clutch feathering with it than Silver V.  It also had no stumble after I got them tuned.  PO of tractor ran it down a dragstrip a few times - I got the time slips when I bought that bike a year ago.  It ran the 1/4 mile in the low 13s @ 5,000 ft.  It was running pretty strong since that was with an amateur rider at the controls.

H₂O

[supervision]

 I know what you mean, on the stumble showing up at just the wrong time.  Here we are, wanting the thing to just take off perfect, and it falls flat on it's face!  I try to ride above or below that engine speed,  like wack it full on in third, instead of nursing in second.  Or keep the rpm up high, like above 6, then it won't stumble.  My bike only stumbles, when I ease into the throttle, is that the way your's acts?  You can ride the back brake a little, to counter the fear, if necessary.  Teach yourself to ride around the stumble

[h2olawyer]

Thanks for the hints.  I try to ride around the stumble, but it always seems to get back into that 4 - 5K zone.  At least I have three good, clean sets of 82 carbs & a set of 83s to see what I can get working better.  The 83s will probably go on later this summer.  I knew the ones from Tractor were working very well last year, so I thought they might be the ticket.  I'll post my results Thursday after I get back from RMNP (& maybe Smokin' Daves, too  ;D ).

H₂O

[Rick G]

occasionally  mine will have the slightest stumble , not enough to cause any concern . mostly it has no stumble . In the last few months it has developed a slightly shitty Idle on one cylinder , its transitory so I'm having a problem nailing it down , I may have to breakdown and dip the carbs.

[Walt_M.]

This is probably going to be a useless post but I did adjust the accelerator pump on my '83 when I first got it back on the road and that and a carb synch took care of my stumble issues. The reason this is useless is that I do not remember how far I adjusted it. All I do remember is that is was probably more than 1 turn and it was just a 'feel good about it adjustment' and it worked.

[don_vanecek]

So h20 and supervision, did you take a look at the restrictor plates on the top of my carbs last June when H20 and I changed our plug wires out (at the condo in Colorado)?  I can ride all day at 3-4 thousand RPM and spin it up to 10 grand at any time.(it seemed to be just as fast as the tractor last year). No new air box, my adjustment screws still have the factory plugs-I do have some different jets however. Yeah, my bike had a bad Vision stumble before I learned of this trick, it was really annoying in city traffic. 

[Walt_M.]

Oh yes, I too have the standard jetting. All my factory 'plugs' are still in place. Spec II pipes. No stumble.

[h2olawyer]

Walt - the 83 carbs tend to be a bit less persnickety than the 82s.  As I continue to (slowly) rebuild my 83 carbs, I'm surprised at how different they are.

Don - I do remember the plates on your carbs.  If I can't make any of my solutions work, I may go that route.  However, with all the sets of carbs I have, I should be able to get something running smoothly.

Will be out for a test ride in a couple hours to see how things are working.

H₂O

Test ride rusults: 
WOO - HOO!!!
No stumbles at any RPMs, great low end grunt, 0 - 75 MPH rapidly, bike runs cooler, acceleration is smoother.  I did notice a tiny hesitation in two corners, but compared to what I was dealing with, I hardly noticed it.  Those were both after the temp gauge got to the 2/3 mark.  It never went above that even in stop & go traffic - AND it was about 85F ambient temp.  I've always had to use the fan override switch to keep it that cool when riding under 45 or in traffic even when the ambient temps are in the low 70s.

I even intentionally stayed in the 4K - 5K RPM range for a while and it was smooth.   8)

Think I'll tear into the carbs I took off & see what I missed when I cleaned them last time.  They have been gradually getting worse over the last few years & this year, the stumble was much more common than in the past.  however, they always had some sporadic stumble.  As for the bike running cooler, I'll bet I was running a little too lean.  Could be that the floats were set a little too low as well.

For those who have ridden with me (or should I say out in front of me  ::) ) I am now able to spend more of my concentration on corner entry, reference points & exit point so I noticed a large leap forward in my riding today.  I am not babying the throttle anymore, giving me less to consider in that area and am able to put more concentration in cornering, body position, road awareness and the other things that help one ride more 'briskly'.  I was riding corners faster than I have taken them before & it didn't feel like I was pushing it at all.  Even eliminated most of the chicken strips on the tires.  Was keeping a keen eye for LEOs, though.  I'm normally within 10 MPH of speed limit, but was having so much fun today, I was a bit over that.   :-X

Friday will be a ride to Estes Park & on up Trail Ridge Road to see how things go @ over 12,000ft.  I'll take some video on that ride & try to get it posted over the weekend.

H₂O

[Night Vision]

cooler running = longer stator life  ;)

[h2olawyer]

cooler running = longer stator life  ;)

My thoughts exactly!   8)

Tonight's project is to make my tankbag the power center for the GPS & helmet cam.  Going to take the power port off the dashboard and reroute the wiring.  Then I'll install a double power port inside the tankbag along with some sort of weather resistant plug to the wires from the auxilliary power center I installed in the fairing.  That will cut down the number of wires I have running to the tankbag.  Now, I have GPS power, camera power & helmet camera.  It will eliminate only one wire, but will make it much simpler to hook everything up whenever I decide to use all the toys.  Right now, I use several zip ties to keep everything orderly.  The new system will cut down on the number of those I need.  I'm also going to put in wiring for heated clothing in case I ever decide to get any of that stuff.

I'll also be installing a larger fuse in the aux power center for the whole circuit & individual inline fuses to protect the low power devices.

H₂O

[Lucky]

for your carbs my bet will be a clogged or dirty pilot jet.  i've seriously considered using 2 fuel filters...

for a weatherproof plug visit a marine supply store, or even a trailer plug (with proper grease) would work...

--Lucky

[h2olawyer]

For the plug, I'm going with one like the Battery Tender Jr. uses - I believe its called a molex.  Going to have to wait until Friday or Saturday to get it done.  Auto Zone's electrical supplies sucks!  Couldn't even find a power port.   ::)  Radio Shack has everything I need.  I do, however, like the idea of a trailer plug.  A 4 prong would be great -- 2 for the camera / GPS & 2 for future heated clothing.

H₂O

[Walt_M.]

Glad to hear you got it figured out. Point to remember on fusing, you fuse the circuit for the wire size. 14 ga. wire gets a 15A fuse, 16 ga. gets a 10. The branches should be fused to protect the equipment. I'm sure H2O knows this but others might not.

[h2olawyer]

Good info, Walt.  When I installed the aux power center, I used 10 ga. wire from the battery through a 30A fuse & a 40A relay to the aux fuse block.  Each circuit from the aux fuse block has a separate fuse, ranging from 20A for the aux lights to 3A for the power port.  The lights use the wire supplied with the kit - looks like 14 ga.  I used 14 ga for the other circuits as well.  Knew it was overkill, but wanted to get the most out of the system.  It's all heavier than most of the OEM wiring harness.

I'll be installing a 30A fuse to the power cable (lamp cord) for the tank bag, then each of the ports in the bag will be protected by 3A fuse.  The connection for the electric clothing will remain disconnected & unfused until I get that stuff & find out what they require for power.

Now, I'll be able to use the helmet cam, GPS & charge my phone all at the same time AND have just one power cable going to the tank bag.  All the excess wires & cables will be contained in the bag instead of using zip ties every time I hook all that stuff up.

H₂O

[joevacc]

Now, I'll be able to use the helmet cam, GPS & charge my phone all at the same time

Just don't turn on the headlight at the same time!! :o :o

Just hearing about all the stators you have replaced makes my wallet ache! ::) ::) ::)

[h2olawyer]

All those are very low power items.  I don't even see any variation on the volt meter when they're all plugged in & turned on.  Now, if I do the heated grips & clothing, then I'll need to watch the power usage a little more closely.  The aux lights (55w each) do put a bit of strain on the charging system.

However, it is better to use all the power from the stator rather than having the R/R shunt it to ground which in turn creates more heat.  Been averaging a stator about every 9 months for the last 5 years.  The latest one seems to be doing better & with the cooler running bike, maybe I'll get more than 1,000 miles out of this one.  I'm about there now.

Just returned from a nice 120 mile ride.  Went up to Estes Park and then up Trail Ridge Road to the Alpine Visitor's Center.  Carbs were flawless the entire trip.   ;D  Amazing how much easier it is to ride when you don't have to babysit the throttle!!!  The section of back road called Devil's Gulch was traffic-free & is quite twisty.   8)  Only got about 45 minutes of video, though.  The AIPTEC battery died & I forgot to bring my spare.  Oh well, most of the trip was behind long lines of slow vehicles stopping every time they saw a damn elk.   ::)

H₂O

[Rick G]

H2 if you can't lick the problem, you might consider velcro to hold the case on , might even allow field replacement of a spare , like a tail light bulb. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

[h2olawyer]

The Cometic gasket is nearly as easy as velcro.  Nice to have a reusable gasket with all the swaps.  With a clean drain pan, I could do a roadside stator swap.  Probably take me nearly an hour to do it.  I'm down to arounf 40 minutes in my garage.  And, that's working at my own pace which isn't what I'd call rapid.   ;D  It took me longer to swap carbs between the two bikes Wednesday evening than it has taken for any of the last three or four stators.  Hardest part in the stator job is reconnecting the oil & neutral sensor wires.

H₂O