83 carb kit warning:

[Lucky]

As you may have read recently, I've been having problems with my bike acting up, I've tested & swapped nearly everything i could think of.  swapping out my 83 carbs for 82's seemed to finally work, with some careful tuning.

i started digging into the 83's tonight, carefully looking over each part as it came out, expecting to find a stray piece of crud somewhere...  now mind you, my carbs are clean! the bowls are actually SHINY inside, & i haven't done anything unusual. i do treat the tank with fuel injector cleaner once every couple of months.

so what was the problem?

I occasionally warn newbies not to mess with the accelerator control diaphragm on the top of the accelerator pump, because the tiny brass bolt that holds the diaphragm together usually breaks.  i have a tool Jim Coil made to repair it, but it's not a perfect solution..

Also sandwiched in that assembly is a kind of flat gasket like valve, like a reed valve, made of a white fiberglass or woven material.

when i opened up the control valve, a good portion of this gasket was actually missing! much of it had crystallized...

this part came from the Sirrus/Keyster 83 carb kit.  it's the second one i've changed, i thought the first time i changed it out was an anomaly, apparently not.

I will be reinstalling the original OEM part that i took out.  even though it's 25 years old, it's still in good shape.  I'll also be very judicious with the injector cleaner from now on.

if you have this part in your 83, check it, & hope you have your old one around somewhere.  then again, if you don't have a replacement, & it's not running bad, leave it alone & skip the injector cleaner...  it'll probaly fall apart when you open it up.

--Lucky

[Coil Coyle]

Thanks for the tip, Lucky, I'm in the middle of doing my Rod Knocker's carbs and the old part still looks good.

;)
Coil

[Kenny]

  Lucky,
        I hope you have copied Sirrus on this item , these guys go out of thier way to sort out problems.One of the kits I purchased had a diaphram with the brass center mounted on the wrong side -I mentioned it to Martin and had three correct  ones in two days.
   I have had one accel pump with a deteriorated material & that was an original one.
Ride Safe   Ken S.

[Lucky]

i'm not sure i have Sirrus's contact info, i think i do, i'll have to check.

BTW, i just went thru my stash of 83 replacement parts, you can tell the OEM part from the Sirrus: you cannot see thru the OEM part, you can see your finger thru the Sirrus part.

i have gotten a kit with the actual acelerator diaphram asembled backwards, they knew about this manufacturing mistake & replaced the kit no charge.

--Lucky

[Brian Moffet]

  I'll also be very judicious with the injector cleaner from now on.

What kind of cleaner, and under what conditions did you use it?  I remember that part.  I don't use any cleaners in my bike, especially now that I ride it daily. 

Brian

edit: This one, right?  It turns out I may have reused my old one.  I went to check my carb parts, and I have the below part, and it is very transparent.  Much more so than the one shown in this photo.

[Kenny]

  Lucky,  F Y I   Sirrus's address is on E-bay under any one of the kits they sell.
                Cheers Ken S.

[Lucky]

I use Berrymans fuel injector cleaner or Seafoam, all i've ever used...
what i just sent to them:


Hi, I think it's Martin i spoke to a year or so ago about a part in the KY-0471 Keyster carb repair kit.  at that time the kit i got had the accelerator pump diaphragm incorrectly assembled & you replaced it quickly & free of charge, & that was very much appreciated.  the kits fit the 1983 XZ550 RK "Vision" carbs.



there is now a new issue.  i rebuild carbs for our riders group, "Riders of Vison" (www.ridersofvision.net)



there is a part in the kit that goes into the accelerator pump control valve, it is the 'clear' hard to see part below the large rubber o-ring in your picture below:

http://www.siriusconinc.com/ebayimages/KY0471.jpg



the material in this part seems to deteriorate fairly quickly, i've had to replace them in as little as 2 years. fortunately, i save every old part that comes out of the carbs. as these OEM parts are 25 years old, i replace them with parts from your kit, but i've had to have customers i've rebuilt carbs for, reship the carbs back to me & i clean the deteriorated part out, reinstall the original OEM part & they are good to go. this is usually at my cost...



The part seems to be constructed of a fiberglass type material, the OEM part being thick enough that it is visibly solid, your replacement is thinner & nearly clear.



You should be aware that due to their construction & age, these carbs have several passages that measure in the hundredths of an inch, & are VERY susceptible to any dirt or varnish in them (I always add a  sintered bronze inline filter with my rebuilds) and occasional treatment with fuel injector cleaner is a necessary evil to keep them running well.



I understand this is a harsh chemical, but the old OEM parts have no problem with the cleaner, but i didn't expect to have a problem with the new ones considering the advances in materials since the originals were made in 82-83.


I am not looking for free replacements, & it wouldn't help anyway, but i thought you should be made aware of this problem, & consider that the same material may be used in the KY-0472 fuel pump kit as well.



I might as well mention too that as you are the only source for kits for this carb, & we are all appreciative that you chose to produce this niche item, we all are pretty dismayed at the price jump that has occurred since you started offering these kits (do you know it takes 2 kits to do one carb?) so to do one set of carbs complete, (82) it's 2 ea KY-0501 @ $59.00 ea =$118.00, plus $19.45 for the fuel pump kit, plus the petcock kit (i forget the price), but with shipping that's $150.00 ball park.  i don't charge that much in labor to rebuild them.  thought i'd mention...



thanks for your time,

--Lucky

P. Lucky Xxxx, Loudon, Tn. 37774

865 xxx-xxxx

[Rick G]

I have never been impressed with ANY of the after market carb kits. first off the jets are junk , poorly marked and not accurately made . I toss them and use Mikuni jets purchased from a stealer. So far I have rebuilt very few carbs , using kits. the original components are usually  hardy enough to only need cleaning. we rebuilt carbs  very successfully  before kits were available. I'm not so sure that any of the kit providers are doing us any favours.

[Lucky]

And their speedy reply:






Dear Sir,

I will pass on the info to Keyster about the clear plastic piece to have them check it out, as for pricing, if you are a rebuild shop we will sell to you at wholesale which is almost 1/2 of the retail price sir..just mention Martin said we can get dealer pricing with your next order sir..

Sorry about any inconvenience

Sincerely,

Martin.

[vadasz1]

So then Lucky, I guess you classify as a retailer and can get the wholesale pricing for any ROV members. ;D

When I need a kit from them I think I'll just tell them my company name and say that I am a retailer................. :o

[kwells]

The way he says 'sir' it sounds like Peppermint Patty was returning the email...
lol ;D

[Kenny]

  Sorry Guys :(   I spent a lot of my own time sending my carbs away (to Japan)to have the Kits made up. If you don't like them maybe you should find someone else to make a better kit. As this is the only one avaliable lets try & work with them,to make it better.
                                                              Cheers Ken S

[Lucky]

Ken, i'm not upset, i'm very appreciative, but considering using the cleaner is a generally accepted practice for us, we've never had a problem before, i thought it was worth brining to their attention, that's all...

[Lucky]

first email in my 'inbox' this morning: (my reply is above it)


Martin,

First, I want to Thank you & commend your company of following up with this.  I don't know if you have Ace Hardware in Canada, but that is who i work for, & we have a very strong focus on customer service, & will follow up a customers problem with a product to it's resolution.  I'm very impressed at your responses! We call it WOWing the customer!



If Keyster's tests result in a change of material, i'll pass that information on to our group.



Thanks again!

--Lucky


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sci@siriusconinc.com
To: luckyvision@hotmail.com
Subject: Plastic
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:32:27 -0400


Already got some word back from Keyster.....they are looking into it...

the material of CV reed -   used in kits for motor vehicles not for motorbikes.   checked the material by soaking in the gasoline and resulted in
no problem so Keyster made a decision to  use this material.   not tested chemical resistance so he will test with solvent materials.
the part of the similar material is not used in the pump kit KY-0472.



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[Night Vision]

ok then.... does this affect the '82 carb and/or fuel pump kits I've installed?

[Lucky]

Shouldn't...

[Night Vision]

goody! thanks

[Lucky]

I reinstalled my 83 carbs with the old OEM reed valve, that was the problem! all fixed! Whew!

also, i got a reply from SCI today on this...should be interesting...

From SCI:

Dear Sir.

Keyster is now making the reeds out of rubber ....

thanks for your input sir...

Martin


OUR PRICES ARE UP TO 10% LOWER ON OUR WEBSITE www.siriusconinc.com

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[kwells]

Dear Sir:
Thank you Sir

[Dibble]

Hey, I think I might be chasing the same gremlin in my dad's V ("The Canadian"). It has a definate off idle bog, and a bit of a surge cruising at 5000 rpm. It you open her up it goes away. The off idle bog is most annoying because it makes you look like an amateur when you stall it in an intersection. Anyhow, I have been too busy to look carefully at the problem, and I have basically told my dad to live with it for now. My question is: do you think they will offer the updated part by itself, or am I buying a complete carb kit????