yikes,, we all know and love/hate it. I had bypassed my yikes to remove any potential probs to get her going,, got her going... decided to "re-build" yikes.. I didnt have it yesterday,, she was ok, a little slow, but, ok.. WITH yikes.. a little faster, easier breathing up to redline, faster down revs. Im a believer. Yikes works, as far as I can tell.
I don"t think that is a good test.
The bike feels better, because it was designed to work WITH YICS, not with out. if you want a good test, have the bikes tune checked with YICS and get a hp graph, then remove YICS, have the bike Re tuned, and get a new graph. then compare the two. Which i plan to do after i finish the fuel injection, Hell I could make a print out from the injection computer, I can do it with out a dyno
If you do that after the FI set-up, then the results will probably be different then with a carb set-up, IMO. I'd do it now, not after, if you're going to.
i am going to get a before and after dyno done. so we will have a dyno of my stock vision with and w/o Yics
I'll bet, with the yikes, will be better by 1/4hp
one of my Visions runs better with, the other, without...
I think the yics adds more torque at the low end but takes a bit of hp from the mid range if i had to guess
That was my observation , when I first installed MAC pipes. With the stock exhaust it would rev to 11500 with ease. With the MACs it would flatten out at 10,000 , but mid range seemed better. This was on the seat of the pants dyno .
(http://fredzone.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/confused.jpg)
Yes, yes I am...
Huh?
In an engine, power for nothing is a lie. like doing a 7 face valve job means that you increase the total volume of the combustion chamber and produce a little more hp, but loose a little mpg. engines are a big balancing act of what you want. I believe that the YICS improves the low velocity power of the engine by swirling the intake gasses, but at the mid range say 1/3 to 3/5 throttle it actually generates too much turbulence causing pockets if gas to remain un-burnt. From 3/5 to full throttle the engine is running so fast that the YICS effect is so slight it is negligible.
Of course that is my hypothesis, But I have no way to prove it one way or the other at this point.
Quote from: Kid Jedi on April 13, 2009, 07:40:16 PM
In an engine, power for nothing is a lie. like doing a 7 face valve job means that you increase the total volume of the combustion chamber and produce a little more hp, but loose a little mpg.
Please learn why things are actually done before spouting off theories..and more importantly, dismissing other peoples observations as you have done above. A "7 angle" valve job has nothing to do with increasing the combustion chamber's cc's. And multi-angle valve jobs have no relation to lost mpg except for the lead foot syndrome associated with it.
Sorry, It improves the flow and produces slightly more power, but burns a little more gas. but more power = less gas needed so it balances out. I miss-edited.
Also I had an idea and I shared it. Isn't that what this forum is for? I don't have all the answers, but I want em. that's why I am here.
I use a Serti valve seat cutter, that makes beutiful radised valve seats, and yes they will flow slightly more than angled valve seats all things being equal. The flow bench says this is true. At wide open throttle is the only place it counts, but I doubt you could tell the difference back to back with the seat of the pants method. I have had Vision heads on the flow bench and I could see no difference with the YICS hooked up or not, but the bench produces a steady flow not a pulse, so there may be something going on I cant measure. I can't see how the thing does much as it dose'nt have much volume and everything about it flexes when the engine is running. It would seem to me that the carburettor would see a better vacuum signal without it. I have never had a stock Vision on the dyno mabe I'll hook mine up someday with and without and see if there is a difference and where.
Ken G.
A Serdi cutter? What I would give to be left alone with that machine for a few hours...
Here is what the Yamaha manual says about the YICS system:
YICS
To increase fuel economy through more efficient combustion, the engine is equipped with the patented Yamaha
Induction Control System (YICS). In this configuration, the YICS consists of a chamber linked to the intake
manifold by a tube. Upon intake, the vacuum in the manifold creates a vacuum in the chamber; when the
intake valve closes, the chamber draws in some air-fuel mixture. When the intake valve reopens, the mixture
in the chamber shoots back out through the angled tube and into the cylinder, mixing with and swirling the
main intake charge. The swirling charge is then compressed and ignited, burning more completely and producing
more power than that of a conventional engine.
The YICS affects the atomization of the fuel, and since we have a 80MM bore, we can really make use of the tech
by the way, is there a noticeable change in exhaust note with and without YICS?
Yes, I have read the hype, I think the addvertising engineers make promices then the real engineers have to come up with something so they don't all look like they are full of shit. If it was such a great device how come they don't still use it? It must of cost them all of 25 cents to make the damn thing. And like I said earlyer the whole thing flexes so much how can it have much effect. My Vision is a 83, stock except different cams and alittle bigger intake valves, and the YICS is still installed, I'll run it on the dyno someday and see if it does make a difference. I could care less if my Vision is faster or slower than another one, it seems to run well with no probblems, I just ride it along. I have other motorcycles that are faster and handle beter, but I like the Vision because it is unique.
Ken G.
Im not concerned with dyno results, myself. I want a bike I can start easy, rides smooth, no vac leaks, good gas mileage, good power, no or as few flat spots as possible, doesnt burn or foul plugs, hole pistons, etc.. hahahahahaha.. I dont know whether its better or not, so far, since Ive been getting her to run, she's running her best, yics sealed and installed, flat spot at around 4k.. otherwise,, shes good enough for me!! Ill be going back and forth and experimenting though..
All the yics is is an extra large intake plenum. When the intake valve closes there's a big back pressure spike. Most the time it'll just stop right at the valve then start moving again as soon as the intake valve opens. With the yics, some of that back pressure and mixed fuel continues moving backwards and into the yics box, then back out into the chamber after the intake valve opens. At certain rpm this can act like an acoustic super charger (tiny) and match the harmonic pulses of the intake with the harmonic pulse of the air moving in and out of the box.
I could be bothered to go get my two stroke book and copy verbatim what it says about exhaust shape and length but that'd be confusing, off topic, and boring. To me :P
lol...... all good brother!! Id like to get into the theory of this stuff one day,, it seems complex and simple all at the same time.. Yet, its over my head, currently..
Where is Jason Morris when you need him!!!??? He has said repeatedly ,that the YIKS was designed for the four cylinder engine , where it had some benefit. On the Vision its affect was negligible . He has some basis for this but I can't recite it.
Quote from: motoracer8 on April 13, 2009, 11:04:06 PM
I think the advertising engineers make promises then the real engineers have to come up with something so they don't all look like they are full of shit. If it was such a great device how come they don't still use it?
The first part is very true. wile working at Thermal Technologies LLC. we had to make up a few crazy theorys.
Why don't they use it today? The design of modern engine heads make the YICS system completely unnecessary.
KidJedi,
I think based on what you quoted from the Yamaha manual and given the time period during which the YICS was used, it may be more of an emission controlled device "burning more cleanly and producing more power". As you probably well know, if the fuel air mix burns more cleanly then less CO is produced thereby cleaning up the emissions. As far as producing more power, I feel like it does. My buke seems to run better with it and much worse when it is not working.
Why isn't it used today? Well, that goes along with your wanting to put fuel injection on the Vision. Thats what probably sent the YICS by the way of the dinosaurs.
You have some good ideas and credit goes to you for wanting to make things better. If I were you, I'd focus on fixing the stator issues first. you may just earn yuorself a gold plated staror if you solve that "burining" issue first.
David
"A Gold Plated Stator"
Do they have them? I want one for my trophy wall. Oh, maybe I have to earn it.
Does the "V" Society award one annually for best idea? We could do a poll on the best of the year. This has to be fun.
Winning is fun. Progress is fun. Learning is fun. (runner up can be a silver plate starter) 8)
I like it,, incentive to improve upon an already great bike!!
I look at a clean burn as releasing as little hydrocarbons from the tail pipe as possible. Motorcycles tend to be pretty clean as far as hydrocarbons are concerned but they absolutely belch nox and co.
I think its all pretty moot though, they put out very little exhaust compared to their four wheeled counterparts, plus if you consider the energy and pollution involved in just smelting the steel for a bike frame compared to a car frame.
Gold plated stator? wow, could I wear it around my neck and be one of those.. wachacallits.. ganstas? But if I did that i would probably hang my self later, just from the sheer shame of having anything in common with my useless generation. I don't think my generation has done anything positive except donate organs. I'll take The Who and Pink Floyd any day!
YAY!!! I have a friend I can relate to!!
As far as popular music goes . for me it all turned to crap in the very early seventies. I'm
still a Motown fan.
As far as these caricatures who are doing rap , I think they've left one letter out . There should be a C on the front of rap.
hahahha AMEN!!! I do like the floyd,, but Im mostly into " the cream ", or Hendrix, and in the 70s I had to switch over to Steely Dan
(a name taken from a william burroughs novel called "the naked lunch",, steely dan was a fully automated, metallic, dildo).. even dabbled in John Prine and John Hiatt....as a musician for over 25 years,, Id have to admit there a small pockets of stuff that are ok these days, IMHO, John Mayer, for example, is a fine musician and good writer,, Jack Johnson, not so musically evolved but, good, feel good, tunes...
Quote from: Kid Jedi on April 15, 2009, 01:21:28 PM
I'll take The Who and Pink Floyd any day!
And add in a little Dire Straits for good measure. Now yer talkin!
David
nice call,,, agreed, fully. hear the Mark Knopfler and Chet Atkins stuff?? great..
I kind of am partial to the pre-Eliminator ZZ Top stuff. Also most of the Bon Scott era of AC/DC was fantastic.
JAILLLLLLLLLLLL BBBRRRRRREEEEEAAAAKKKKKK ! ! ! ! ! ! !
Don't forget the Stones and The Doors. Anybody ever heard of a guy called Stevie Ray, aka SRV? Rock on Bros.
true enuff..
8) Cream, (Clapton riiiight across the board!!), Led Zep', AC/DC, Free/Bad company, Black Sabbath, Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Who, Stones, Deep Purple, etc, etc, the list...like the music...just goes on & on 8)
Gotta admit that I also like Motown, Soul & Blues 8)
Hate Rap Crap and opera!!!
8).......TIGER....... 8)
it looks tiger has stolen my music library! As for opera I do like Lakme by Deliebes..
I enjoyed the three tenors on PBS, and I enjoy classical music , but opera leaves me cold, they all sound like there in pain! I like blues , and especially old country, 20 years ago and older.. The new stuff has way too much of a popular sound to it.
I really love this forum... no wonder.. it seems all you guys have good taste.. odd.. and have the same bike.. hmmm.. can it be assumed that this bike is in good taste!!
Only when the gremlins are exorsized.
My music tastes run a wide gamut. Bluegrass, older country, classical (including some light opera), most rock from the late 50s through the early 80s (yes, even some disco), The Chieftans, Enya, Mannheim Steamroller (awesome stargazing music) but my favorite has to be big band & Jazz - Duke Ellington, Count Basie, Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw, Tommy Dorsey, Billie Holiday, Frank Sinatra, Clyde McCoy, Kay Kyser, Chuck Mangione, Don Ellis, Wynton Marsalis, and finally - as a former trumpet player - my hero, Maynard Ferguson. Total agreement with Rick on the (C)rap 'music'.
H2O
I love how much people would rather talk about music than YICS. I don't blame anyone! ;D
hahaha you got it Kid!! Lawyer,, you got some good taste there too, bro, I didnt even think about the good ol big band stuff I love..
Hey, you forgot classical, Carmina Burana by Orff, Ravel, etc.. :-)
"And what do you like to do when listening to Ravel's Bolero?" :D
How about Haydn's Concerto for Trumpet & Orchestra in E-flat Major? I was working on that way back when I was a music major the first time I attempted college. That's one amazing piece of music. I think I have at least 3 different versions - Maurice Andre on two vinyl albums and one by Wynton Marsalis before he gave up playing classical. Said it took too much practice time. I know what he means - jazz is much easier!
YICS is a boring subject, but can get some great arguments going on whether or not it does anything except cause problems. :D I'm with the camp that believes it improves performance a tiny bit - provided it is well sealed.
H2O
Quote from: h2olawyer on April 17, 2009, 05:59:24 AM
"And what do you like to do when listening to Ravel's Bolero?" :D
At one point in time when I was at college, I was listening to Bolero. My dorm neighbor stopped by and said that it was a great movie (the movie the piece was played from.) I said it was really cool, and I really like the evolutionary progression in the animation.
he was talking about "10", a movie I never saw,
I was talking about Allegro non Troppo, a movie he never saw :o
some folks actually HAVE more culture than a 1/2 cup of yogurt!!! Try going to Reno.. the difference between Reno and a cup of yogurt is that yogurt has a LIVE culture...
I should tell you about the time I was in Reno, with shoulder length curly hair, and a beard. Staying at a hotel that was hosting a cattle-ranchers convention. It was strange...
ha,, i have one for that,, Im a musician,, bass player usually, so, I join this really good country band that wants to go alternative rock.. so, I give them a cd of about 60 tunes to choose from,, they want to learn some "Alice in Chains". So, we do.. Our first gig was in elko nevada during what is called "cowboy poetry week". 10 gallon hats as far as you can see, and these guys want to play Alice in Chains.. Manager FREAKS.. The leader of the band blames it on ME!!!!! I was out of that band the next week...
last time i went to reno there was a treckkie convention and some kinda secret service thing in the same hotel. Long story short: guys in suits with ear pieces riding in the same elevator as Klingons. it was WEIRD
Short story long? Anything by Dickens! :D :D :D
that is a weird combo....good flashback material for sure!! lol...
I'm equally comfortable around ranchers, farmers and nerds. I've done my share of ranch work - brading, pulling calves, planting / baling grass & alfalfa hay, repairing balers (a constant chore - even in mid February). I enjoy Baxter Black's stories & poetry. I've also spent time working with computer programmers and most lawyers I know are at least a little bit 'nerdy'. I was at one time a marching band geek. For the last 30 years,my dress 'shoes' have been made by Justin out of bullhide for the black ones and elephant hide for the brown ones. Even wore boots to my law school graduation (in San Diego, CA). These days, boots just seem like a good fit with my handlebar moustache. ;D I do own a pair of wingtips, but they haven't been on my feet in years. 20 years old and look like new.
H2O
I knew there was some thing I liked about you!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D