Riders Of Vision

Hi guys,
I need to turbo my bike due to its unfortunate lack of excessive power..... not winning anything up against 1L bikes....
has anyone turbo'd one of these yet? I need to know if there is an easy to access oil feed somewhere
that i can tap into, as i dont want to have to strip the motor down to find one.  :)

Lucky has done an oil cooler mod with minimal digging into the lower half of the motor.  He  has a writeup about it on his website at www.xz550.com

David

thanks.. that sounds perfect. although the link on his site isnt working for me at the moment :(

I concur, the oil cooler instructions link seems to be dead. I'm interested in the oil cooler instructions if anyone has them.

probably need to change pistons to lower compr. to be worthwhile they are 10.5

that would be a good idea, but will blow the budget... head gaskets + pistons = too much $$$$.
i'll just wait till the engine explodes before pulling it apart for anything like that.

are there even any lower comp pistons around that will drop into these engines?

When Lucky released his "Vision CD" some of the things on his website disappeared.  I believe the oil cooler modification was one of these.  You need that CD anyway, so just order one from him.  ;D  No Vision owner should be without one - there's tons of great stuff on it.


H₂O

actually, there are two factory plugged venues that you can tap into... one just above the starter, and the other nearer the water pump.... and two sets of instructions  ??? ...

when I did my oil cooler mod, I used the instructions that showed tapping into the plug near the starter... there is another set of instructions showing the tap near the waterpump...

that's why Jason said I tapped into the wrong plug....  :-\  in any event, I have over 20k miles and have not grenaded...

I'd like to see what Lucky says about the two version of instructions

i will not say what you want to do isn't possible, but i will say that if a well running vision needs a turbo for you to feel you are getting your moneys worth, you are on the wrong bike .

25 year old parts just arent going to withstand the new pressures and temps you want to introduce it to,so grenading is going to be your result, sooner rather than later, best bet if you just have to have a turbo on a motorcycle, then you need one that was built for it from the start.  just come ask my bobber project bike,,, but be prepared to repeat the story a lot, the parts of the damaged engine are all over my garage , and i am sure they all want to hear your "new"idea .

to be honest, 25 years ago , a turbo may have been a sweet addition, but now, i just dont think you have enough bike to make it work .

Quote from: xzerminator on July 11, 2010, 05:00:53 AM
are there even any lower comp pistons around that will drop into these engines?

:) The question should be... are there ANY replacement pistons off the shelf to fit a Vision...The answer to that is NO!!! You will be hard pressed to even find a set of piston rings!!! Piston's will have to be custom made, not impossible...but very costly as a one off...unless you have the right equipment and know how.
         
I have to agree with Kia here, If you feel the need for an old turbo ride, I would suggest a 650 Seca Turbo, and not try reinventing what is a well made, twentyodd year old motor. As for...

Quote from: xzerminator on July 10, 2010, 07:21:58 AM
..... not winning anything up against 1L bikes....

Try picking your race venue  :-\ Run a Vision against all comers on a real bendy/twisty road...this is were a well tuned, well set up, twentyeight year old Vision will hold its own.

Now THAT'S adult perspective!

It is true that the Vision motor is capable of making a LOT of horsepower, but it would take a LOT of money.  John Clemens 650 racer is one example, and I was talking with a fellow that did machine work for a guy that made a 750 out of his Vision.  Lots of money involved, but it worked well.  The Vision motor is a good foundation with a lot of potential for hopping up but it will not be cheap.  You have to go deep and do some crank work, replace the rod bearings with better ones, bore the cylinders and cases, order special pistons, Cams, head work, exhaust system, carbs, etc.  Here is the deal . . . . take whatever you want, and pay for it.

Probably the cheapest way to go fast is to get something that already goes that fast.

This is where i will point out that there are PLENTY of cx500 turbos kicking around, and they're just as old as visions are. They did virtually nothing to that motor when they put the turbo on it in the design stages, lower compression pistons but thats it. If honda can blow a 500cc pushrod twin, i think the vision motor would handle it just fine. It's a really good motor already, not a whole lot you can do with it performance wise besides blowing it. Hemi heads, dohc, watercooled, so on.

I think a few of you may have missed the point here...
my bike exists already and cost me next to nothing, was built from leftovers.
to get a faster one costs money, to turbo it costs nothing,
when it blows up i will build another one out of whatever bike is lying around at that time, and this one will go to the scap heap.
im not a profesional racer (if i was i wouldnt be using one of these motors) and im just having alot of fun along the way.

Quote from: Tiger on July 11, 2010, 09:57:39 PM

Quote from: xzerminator on July 11, 2010, 05:00:53 AM
are there even any lower comp pistons around that will drop into these engines?

:) The question should be... are there ANY replacement pistons off the shelf to fit a Vision...The answer to that is NO!!! You will be hard pressed to even find a set of piston rings!!! Piston's will have to be custom made, not impossible...but very costly as a one off...unless you have the right equipment and know how.

Last year I when I was calling around, total costs came to about 2500-3k for new pistons, rings, and bore liners to do a 650cc overbore.  And that is just per bike- Add in the minimum numbers required (e.g. 8 pistons), and it adds up.  Add in cams, and another 1k+ for valves, springs, lifters and you might as well buy a used late model liter bike that you can actually get parts for.  Heck, you can do an xs650 complete rebuild for less than that.   In the end, you still have a nearly 30 year old bottom end, which becomes the weak link, and when that goes, you can either replace it with more used 30 year old parts, or spend multiple thousands more on a custom one.  That bottom end problem is really what stopped me from doing it.


As for the turbo issue, you'll need something like a gt15 to even get it to spool (I looked into this a few years back).  It will cost you more than the bike's worth to get it to run properly too.  You can pretty much forget about running the stock carbs under boost.  You'll need a whole new intake system/fab/$$$.   Megasquirt would be the easiest and most reliable, but that adds another 500+ (microsquirt + throttle bodies).

Here, this might interest you.

http://hildstrom.com/projects/vision/index.html

David

Fascinating story.  I hadn't even thought about how the Vs "wasted spark" ignition system would come into play.  Using the modified stock carb bodies as the system core is very creative. It solves a lot of problems on the front end.  I don't understand why he had to go back and forth between the two different hose sizes, and what's with the first fuse block after the filter?  A "T" with a plugged end will only function as a pass through conduit.

Too bad he didn't take it a little farther.

Probably the best way to do a turbo vision is with a simple pressure hat blow through system. You seal the venturi up (o rings on the throttle) and make a little hat to go over both carb tops, then just pipe in turbo air to the hat thing. People put turbos on volkswagens all the time, stock everything except the exhaust obviously.

But the cheapest way, and the way i'll be doing it is to use a HT-10B and a 45mm mikuni as a suck through system, which will cost me $0
as i have them lying around. Fuel injection is a waste of time for this anyway, as its only run at full open throttle the whole time,
so a well tuned mikuni will do fine.

and to be honest i have the gear needed to make some new pistons, but the raw material alone is basically too expensinve
to spend on this bike. i have a real drag bike that gets all the attention, this one was just made becasue i hate going to watch
events like this and not be involved.

Couldn't you melt down old vision pistons for raw material?  hat's what Burt Munroe used to do.
Must be lots of people willing to donate a piston or two for the cause

possibly but i still dont think its worth the effort.... anyway ill be melting them soon enough with the turbo on there :)

Maybe Burt had to make pistons so often because he was breaking the cast pistons so often! Wouldn't forged make more sense for blown applications?