I think my vision just became a parts bike, NO, it RUNS again!!

[Rikugun]

I'd agree starting would be the most stressfull - maybe followed by a good backfire!?  :) I asked about the bike having been in an accident as that would also have the flywheel wanting to continue spinning if the engine suddenly came to a stop when the bike were under way. Hoefully you won't get to test that theory after the repair.  :o :D

Do you think red loctite (a strong adhesive) could be used in lieu of epoxy? It's thinner and if assembled right away the excess would smoosh out (the technical term) between the crank and flywheel further aiding in bonding the two together? Just a though.  ;) Which ever way you go good luck. As you pointed out it was working as it was so hopefully you'll get some more life out of her.   :)  8)

edit fiat doctor posted while I was typing and offered a similar suggestion... :-[

[jefferson]

Another thing that would reduce the stress on the key would be to lighten the flywheel. How was the key behind the flywheel Don?

Jeff

[don_vanecek]

thanks jeff, I haven't taken if off yet, will work on it again next weekend, have to get it to work again, the John man still has meat pieces for us this year to consume!

[jefferson]

And also the bolt does need to be there to maintain oil pressure.

Jeff

[Tiger]

I know your a long way from the ocean Don...however, on a clear dark night around 3 a.m. with a full moon high in the sky, sitting start naked on the roof of your house, smokin' a wee dube... hold your breath for a few seconds and I bet you can hear the sea sirens calling your tune.......'Connie, Connieeeeee ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D... 8)

                8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)

[Rikugun]

 ??? "Connie" as in Concours????

[QBS]

Don, I'm 100% with fiat dr. on this.  Would add, be sure the surfaces that are will be contacted by the Loc Tite are completely oil free.  Wipe the areas down with the best solvent you can find.  Suspect that if you had never taken the flywheel off, you would never have known it contained a problem.  All the best to you.

[Rick G]

Around here a concours is called a can of coors.

[pullshocks]

I've heard that call many times, clean looks and the promise of readily available parts.....but they weigh how much? 675 lbs?

[don_vanecek]

yeah guys, I think I'm going to put it back together with bonding and see what happens.  Yes, I am thinking of a concours in my future but I was not hoping to do it for another year. 

Now, why the connie, well price mostly, you can find 2003-2005 models at the price I am willing to pay 4-5 grand, sometimes with only about 20k miles on em, the pre-1300 models have valves and carbs a guy could still work on, yeah 150 more lbs but I'm more a straight line guy anyway. This could be the last bike I get and I want a nice one!  Love a Yamaha fjr1300 but they go about 2000 more and the Honda St1300 is rather a rare bird and not cheap.  It's a comprimise. I'd also consider a 650 or 1000 Vstrom, a honda NT700v, but I don't think it would be improve much on the Vision. 

Well, story not over, I still need to remove the gear behind the flywheel to check out the Key, the only reason I did this in the first place. Oh, this is the second time I had this off, I already did the starert clutch stuff a few years ago, and it is doing just fine.   

thanks for the encouragement tiger (he already knew I was thinking of this)

Jeff, how would I lighten the fly wheel??

[jefferson]

It would need to be chucked up in a lathe and then remove the metal that surrounds the starter clutch to the outside. You can remove metal down to the level of the surface that the starter clutch bolts to.

Jeff

[don_vanecek]

Oh jeff, I don't think I will be missing with the flywheel but thank you, got the gear off yesterday and indeed it was starting to loose shape abit.  You know both of those keys are made of unavailable!

Thank goodness we have in Blair a farm company called Kelly Ryan Equipment Company and they have a machine shop, nice guy there who I think rides a Harley studied my keys and indicated he can do it.

You know, this incident has made me wonder, if a person wanted to overhaul a Vision motor to like new condition, could it actually be done, could you actually replace any worn out parts you may have, what if you needed to overbore such as you normally do when overhauling a car engine?  Just made me wonder as I searched the parts fishes for these "unavailable" keys and I noticed alot of other "unavailable" items.     

[Rikugun]

Thank goodness we have in Blair a farm company called Kelly Ryan Equipment Company and they have a machine shop, nice guy there who I think rides a Harley studied my keys and indicated he can do it.
Good to hear! Sounds like a stand up guy.  :) BTW, does this include the balancer shaft key?

You know, this incident has made me wonder, if a person wanted to overhaul a Vision motor to like new condition, could it actually be done, could you actually replace any worn out parts you may have, what if you needed to overbore such as you normally do when overhauling a car engine?  Just made me wonder as I searched the parts fishes for these "unavailable" keys and I noticed alot of other "unavailable" items.
Practically speaking, no. To do a thorough job where many hard and soft parts are required it becomes cost prohibitive. Discontinued parts would need to be sourced and/or made. If a Jay Leno got it in his head to have it done it would happen but for us mortals a viable used engine is more practical.  ;D    

[Cdnlouie]

Hey Don,

All is not lost! I would go with epoxy (JB weld) to fill in the broken crank piece and reposition the key on the crank, as all it really does is locate the flywheel.  Torque it down and forget about it! Let's just remember how difficult it is to remove a properly torqued flywheel folks.  The taper holds the flywheel in place really.  If your flywheel came off easily then a previous owner had not torqued it properly, because they don't move.  The idea of using bearing mount Loctite would pretty much ensure that flywheel is never moving again, but I don't think it would be necessary (I think I would prefer a small weld that at least could be removed).  I would be more afraid of never getting it off again!

Here is a thought: maybe the last time you installed the flywheel you might have misaligned it and the crankshaft actually fractured at that time.  You may have also undertorqued it and you just discovered it now when you took it off, but it worked well for 20k so i doubt if it was moving around.  The loose gear for your balancer shaft (on the crankshaft) is the most likely source of your ticking noise, fix that with Loctite (red at least) and you will ride that Vision for years to come.  I would be surprised if you have a serious problem Don...really!  Oh, and make sure you redo the starter clutch with a fresh re-torque and loctite as well as proper bolts.

Give it a try as you have nothing to lose!  :)

[don_vanecek]

Here it is guys, from May 2007 at 26,000 miles, you suppose that piece has been broken since that time.....Now, AND YOU ALL PAY ATTENTION-here was my screw up, I DID NOT HAVE THE STUPID FLYWHEEL BOLT ON ALL THE WAY! It sure fooled me-seemed to be tight, my torque wrench showed 60 lbs-BUT I was still about 2 or 3 mm loose. You could not tell it was loose-at least not until I took it back off. Frankly the second time around I was worried I was going to strip it!! So if you do this and get sounds where the gears grind and you get a terrible noise-that bolt is not really all the way on yet and you are grinding off your case. You can see the grind about three o'clock in this picture. Thank goodness my engine did not want to run that day-I may have been asking someone for a new case!

thanks for your thoughts Louie, gosh, I do have the other key off, guess I will check it out also. 

I may need to wait a bit before I go further on this, we are suppose to get 6-12 ins snow on Thursday!

[Rick G]

Sounds like you may have had the wrong bolt?  Don't cringe , but I use a 1/2 inch air impact to set the flywheel bolts. I don't recommend  it for the uninitiated,  it takes lot of experience  to know  how much is enough.

I worked in a shop  out side San Francisco in the early '70's . One day a customer came in who was overhauling his Cb 350 , He asked the service manager what the  head bolt torque  should be. The service manager  looked at me and said " about 6 rat-a-tats ? eh Rick.  .

If you need  any small parts , like the woodruff key , let me know , I probably have them.

[munkyfistfight]

After this past weekend, here's my take on this situation.

I went through a similar situation with a motor that come with a bike I bought last summer. The further I got into the motor, the more I discovered that it was unserviceable. Apparently the previous owner (or whomever) tried to overhaul it and didn't do a good job. The crankshaft, connecting rods, and pistons were shot.

For a really reasonable price, and a trip to Niagara Falls, I bought a motor off of Tiger that seems to be worth the trip.

Look around. I'm sure you can find a replacement motor. It's going to cost you way more than just money to weld this thing and have it last long. In my opinion, frustration is like insult to injury in these situations. I see Vision's all the time on Craigslist. Where are you located? I saw and ad on Craigslist a few weeks ago for a guy in Kennesaw GA selling 3 Vision motors plus parts for relatively cheap. I may jump on it if you don't lol.

http://www.searchcraigslist.org/result.php?q=Yamaha%20Vision

Good luck. I have some parts if you need help.

[Rikugun]

The difference between your motor and Don's is that his runs. Other than this particular dilemma, the rest of the key components aren't "shot" as in your engine. While I'd agree a used engine may end up being a viable option, Don's plan is much simpler, will have a minimum cost associated with it, holds the very real chance of working, and doesn't require traversing several states.   8)

While I've often advocate sourcing used engines as replacements when justified, I recognize there is a finite quantity in circulation. In situations like Don's it seems very reasonable to try the repair as he has very little to lose and much  to gain. It's good for Don and good for the Vision community at large. Just my 2 cents.  :D

[don_vanecek]

Thanks guys for all the thoughts, since Winter decided to come back to Nebraska and my garage is unheated it could be 6-8 weeks before we see a conclusion to this post.

[Rikugun]

Understood, I'm in a holding pattern myself until the weather gets a bit more cooperative.  :( We'll be waiting for updates and sending happy thoughts your way in the meantime.  ;)