starter just spins half the time!!

[flanker]

So I just bought an 82' vision and replaced the intake manifolds (cracked all the way through). got em' back on & tried to start it and it made a ping sound. Tried again fired right up! Had it running for a full minite and wanted to see if it would idle, it didn't and it died. tryied to start it again and it would crank over than  something would kick out/off and just the starter would spin. now sometimes just the starter will spin, sometimes it will crank, pop like its going to go, than just spin. SOOOOOOO fustrating!!! Is it the starter, idler gears, or starter clutch??? Help please.

[h2olawyer]

Not being there to diagnose by sound, I'd lay odds on the starter clutch.

How many miles on the bike?  When it starts & runs, is there a knock that goes away above 2500RPM?

It is easiest to remove the starter, disassemble it & look it over.  Good time to check the brushes & commutator anyway.  You will need to drain some oil out for that. though.  If that all checks out, then its into the side case & removing the rotor / flywheel.  The starter clutch is attached to the back side of the flywheel.  The Vision is notorious for having the OEM starter clutch bolts back out.  Normally happens by 18K miles.

H₂O

[flanker]

The bike only has 5k miles on it. I already have the starter out, but not apart. Someone had it apart once before (can tell by homemade gaskets). But I could hear it spinning when not engaging. I bought a haynes manual and the trouble shooting said it was probably the starter clutch or idler gears. I can see the small idler gear and that looks alright along with a good looking gear on the starter. Both are making contact right in the middle. All this is leading me to believe it's the starter clutch. Looks like fun to get to. Any idea on prices and if there is non OEM sarter clutches?

[ps2/bikevision]

mitch, sounds to me like a starter clutch. im not sure of aftermarket starter clutches. i just used the one off my spare bike, (which you should have if you dont already) ;D 

its not a hard job checking the starter clutch. just pull the left side engine cover off, then the flywheel, then youll be at the clutch. i dont worry about gaskets to put it back together. i once used yamabond and the other time was some one min. gasket maker. both worked just fine and never had a leak.

[inanecathode]

Starter clutch is pretty easy to do. Just take the left cover off the motor, remove the big bolt holding the flywheel on (jam the idler gears with a rag or something to hold the flywheel) and use a harmonic balancer puller to pull the flywheel off. Odds are your starter clutch bolts are broken/ready to break.

[h2olawyer]

The OEM starter clutch is still available (or was a few months ago).  Cost near $100.  It is a good, solid piece.  The problem is the OEM bolts.  They were too short & improperly peened.  Proper fix is three new bolts, cut to slightly longer than OEM, installed with red loctite & the ends peened over solid to the rotor.  If your starter clutch is cracked, you may need a new one - but the bolts are a cheap, solid, proven fix.

Many Visions were junked by mechanics who didn't  investigate the problem fully.  They heard the clatter @ idle & said, "Yep, bottom end is gone."  You may have n idler gear missing some teeth, but you would have to get into the left case cover to investigate that as well.

Hope this answers some of your questions!

H₂O

[Rick G]

Hi flanker, Its a safe bet that your  starter clutch needs your attention. Its not that hard to do. What is your mechanical experience? I don't want to bore you ,with stuff you already know.

The centre bolt on the alternator rotor has the starter clutch mounted on the back of it.  A harmonic balancer puller will remove it, as long as it comes with suitable 8mm bolts.
The rotor (flywheel)  is some times fairly easy to remove and in other instances its  BEAR.
I put an old socket on the hex of the centre bolt , in case its stubborn about coming off and you have to resort to several heavy blows from a heavy hammer . Keep hitting until it comes off. A few times it will not come off, even with this technique, in this event , leave it until morning . It will be in the box ,with old rags , that you need to put under the flywheel to catch all the small parts.
keep us posted.

[inanecathode]

The OEM starter clutch is still available (or was a few months ago).  Cost near $100.  It is a good, solid piece.  The problem is the OEM bolts.  They were too short & improperly peened.  Proper fix is three new bolts, cut to slightly longer than OEM, installed with red loctite & the ends peened over solid to the rotor.  If your starter clutch is cracked, you may need a new one - but the bolts are a cheap, solid, proven fix.

Many Visions were junked by mechanics who didn't  investigate the problem fully.  They heard the clatter @ idle & said, "Yep, bottom end is gone."  You may have n idler gear missing some teeth, but you would have to get into the left case cover to investigate that as well.

Hope this answers some of your questions!

H₂O

Is the jury still out on peening the jesus out of stock bolts?

[Rick G]

I don't believe that the stock bolts are hard enough , and there certainly not long enough.

[h2olawyer]

The stock bolts are definitely NOT long enough.

When I did my bolts (with the second stator) The OEM setup was still solid.  But that was @ around 8K miles.  At the time, I was hoping not to need to go back in there for a long time.  That was 3 years & 4 stators ago.   ::)

H₂O

[Lucky]

before you pull everything apart, check the charging system, mine used to do EXACTLY that with a poor battery & stator.

ok, well you'll still have to pull it apart..