feeling the tires slide

[kwells]

nothing like finding the edge of your tires.  Today I went up to Berthoud pass and hit the switchbacks as hard as possible.  Was a great day and I got to work on my turn entries and exits.  It's amazing how much of a difference the setup can make. I was talking to a buddy on the phone tonight and discussing the details of turn setups.  He insists on a lefthand turn that you enter on the left hand side and go wide toward the right hand side of the lane upon exit.  But, I was saying that I like to approach from the middle of the lane and go right (early) then lean toward the apex of the turn.  I basically was saying start  wide but earlier...he was saying go early but stay with the lane and use the width of the exit.

What yall think?

[h2olawyer]

Either may work on a track.  For roads where you are likely to meet traffic, starting wide & making a late apex is safest & gives you the best sight lines.  Many of the roads around here have blind corners.  After reading the chapter in "Proficient Motorcycling" about cornering, I always try to make a late apex.  The consequences of meeting anyone coming the other way, going a bit too fast & overshooting the corner are not pretty - even if you are doing everything correctly & hitting the apex.  In this (true) account, a rider was headed up Boulder Canyon (edited after rereading the article this morning).  He was riding fairly conservatively with his wife on the back.  He was rounding a blind left hand corner & a sport bike headed the other way came through the corner too fast.  He drifted into the oncoming lane.  Result was three fatalities.  Had the rider with his wife taken the late apex, they would have been able to adjust their line to avoid the oncoming bike.  By hitting the apex directly, the rider had no time to react to the sudden appearance of the out of control sport bike.

That said, your method of starting wide is the safer route.  David Hough (author of 'Proficient Motorcycling') recommends starting the turn to the outside of the lane, gradually increasing the radius, hitting your apex past the true apex of the curve & finishing near the middle of the road.  Gives you time to react to traffic & unseen road conditions such as sand, gravel, pot holes & the like.  You have most of the turn completed early and are actually starting to straighten back out by the time you reach your (late) apex.

Other methods may be quicker, but I'll take the safer route.  I have no desire to become a statistic.  I'd save the true apexing for the track & use the late apex method on the roads - even curves with clear visibility, in order to get more practice in that style of riding.

H₂O

[don_vanecek]

Humm, apex, late apex, true apex, apex directly, increasing the radius, most likely things I already do after 30+ years of riding but don't know the terms. You can all explain it to me next week!

And I'm sure there will be a few chances to practice, uh!

[kwells]

you start to use the terms when you are faced with 180 degree switchbacks.  I've been working on being a better motorcyclist by trying to push myself and bike.  I do the same with snowboarding and find myself on the mogul runs that wear me out but give me greater satisfaction.
I'll probably stick with my method of starting wide and darting to the center since I would prefer not to be a statistic as well but mostly I just feel more comfortable doing it that way.

[h2olawyer]

I'll bring my copy of Proficient Motorcycling up to the condo.  Pages are coming out of the bindinig, but it is still readable.

H₂O

[bikehandle]

Humm, apex, late apex, true apex, apex directly, increasing the radius, most likely things I already do after 30+ years of riding but don't know the terms. You can all explain it to me next week!

And I'm sure there will be a few chances to practice, uh!

Don, Living in nebraska and Iowa we don't have many blind curves! Unless the vieu is blocked by cornfields!! (HA)

[don_vanecek]

Don, Living in nebraska and Iowa we don't have many blind curves! Unless the vieu is blocked by cornfields!! (HA) from bikehandle.


Your right, I'll probably be the slowest rider up there next week. That was good!!!!

[h2olawyer]

Not to worry, Don.  I'm not that fast, either.  Guess those of us "half-fast" riders can stick together!   ;D

Saw a T-shirt I like:  "Old Guys can Still Go Fast . . . When They Want To"

Another:  "You Must be Fast - 'cause You Were Haulin' Ass When I Passed You"

H₂O

[Cdnlouie]

I'm with the going wide (outside of lane) to enter the corner until I have a clear view of my exit point. Having a clear line of sight through the corner is critical to safe riding. I don't like surprises like not knowing how tight a corner may end up.  It could make me into a hood ornament. The older I get the more valuable my life gets.

Divng into a corner too early before you can see where you are going is looking for excitement in all the wrong places.  You have decided to sacrifice braking capability by being leaned over, turning capability since you may have your front forks under compression due to speed and braking leaving a lot less options for moving your already committed line when you don't know what might be coming up next. Put a dead animal in your path, a pothole, loose sand, a bump and your bike can be out of control in seconds and heading into the oncoming traffic because you freaked out that life was not what you expected.  Well, what did you expect anyway? Expect the unexpected, that way you get to talk about it later.

A biker survives by seeing the road in front of him and if you can't see through a turn you're not going to survive very long.

Good call guys  ;),

Louie

[zore]

I used to have a nasty habit of taking left handers too close to the double yellow.  Although my tires were still well with in my lane, my head had a tendency to creep over into on coming traffic.  I now make it a point to simply keep all my bits in my lane at all times.  If I have that much pent up motorcycle angst built up in me, I'll do a track day.  If I'm dragging exhaust parts and foot pegs thru a turn, I consider it a good day.  I've never had tires give up and slide except when I hit a wet spot.