Charging system conversations with Electrex

[Lucky]

I'm currently in an email conversation with Ritzo at Electrex (he's the owner/founder) about our bikes, I've explaned to him ALL the steps we reccomend & take with our charging systems, & how we are still having failures left & right.

I've asked him about the possability of them producing a beefed up stator (more heat resistant, better coating, windings, etc) and also if there is anything that can be done to improve the reliability of the R/R.  He hasn't mentioned it, but this may cost more. (but really, less in the long run...)

He has recently been out of the country, but has none the less been very receptive to my letters. ?He has expressed an interest in finding out the cause of our troubles, it seems to bother him that his stock parts aren't doing the trick & I think that's good. ?he may or may not ask that someone in our group to borrow a Vision for examination, and possably testing as it is, or with prototype parts. ?they are located in Oceanside, California. ?Is anyone near that location interested in helping out with this if requested?

He has work to catch up on now that he is back, & we resume this in a week or so

Thanks, --Lucky

[RussD]

Good for you Lucky!!  I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who just dropped $166 to them & am still having the same damn problems! I hope your dialogue with them keeps progressing! They're going to be getting mine back as soon as the snow starts flying......I've lost enough riding time already this summer. Days like today in Ohio are like gold at this point!

[Dan Byers]

Dam I wish I wuz in SoCal...count me amongst those who invested in the entire Electrex setup and still experienced stator failure after one season.  Ritzo was also helpful to me too several years ago, and accepred a returned staor that had one leg of the wires wound sloppy. Still...want to see what comes of this.
Dan

[Dave T.]

I emailed Ritzo and he responded, but didn't give any solutions. He just asked what bike it was on.  >:(

I am getting a Ricks stator from DK and I will keep you guys posted.

[Walt_M.]

I may be wrong but I think the R/R is the key to the problem. The stator should not overheat if the R/R is working properly. The R/Rs enemies are heat and poor connections. If the connections are good and the R/R is kept cool, all will be well, if not, it will not.

[Dave T.]

I may be wrong but I think the R/R is the key to the problem. The stator should not overheat if the R/R is working properly. The R/Rs enemies are heat and poor connections. If the connections are good and the R/R is kept cool, all will be well, if not, it will not.

I agree with this, the R/R should be doing all the heat dissipation. Seems like if "something" fails in the R/R, the stator is stuck dissipating the heat. Excess current should be shunted to ground and lost as heat in the R/R, not the stator.

[RussD]

I agree with D.T. & Walt (with what little I've learned from you guys so far  ;)), but it seems to me that if you're putting a brand new r/r on the bike, #1 that's going the extra mile as far as being over-cautious, and #2, you darn well shouldn't have any more problems with your stator anymore!

I went the salvage yard route 2 years ago with my "new to me" r/r, so I empathize with you guys who shelled out the extra dough-rae-me for the Electrex r/r.

Bottom line in my book.....why are we all having the same electrical issues as we've had before, when we've spent the money to buy what's supposed to be a "quality factory replacement"?! I go back to Lucky's original post on this thread......It seems to be Electrex needs to address these issues and perhaps go back to the drawing board to produce a part that, irregardless if I replace all the "legs of the delta" as Rick would say........if I put one of their parts on, I don't have to buy 3 new parts to ensure a properly functioning system! Why isn't their r/r disappating the proper amount of heat to ensure a properly functioning system. If that's the case........Seems to me they're no better than the original Yamaha part!

[Humber]

I am on my oEM setup and don't have problems.. the spare parts bike I bought quite a long time ago was equipped with KZ550 rectifier and re-wound stator.

There are some people using KZ as main rr unit for XZ. ?They seem to be satisfied. I am cooling my rectifier with additional fans... no problems after 60 000 kms.... although insulation started to rub off in some places, I put a new layer of hq epoxy on the stator....

I will see if that works for me, otherwise I will be forced to rewind my stator on my own.... I can do it with the help of my father's friend.. actually I wonder why Rick didn't rewind his... he intended so....

People in POland run the same mileage with rewound stators, but they can't read English and hardly anyone knows about the tips we are discussing here....

I know that I would burn my system if it were not for this site. A year ago when replacing my oil rings I went through el. connectors on my bike. RR ones were melted and difficult to separate.... (although kept continuity)... so.. the failure was close...

I promised to buy an electrex since Lucky said that they were OK, I see that they are not... so I am not going to overpay....

still carring additional charging system when setting out for longer trips.... maybe that's the repair??

ONE MORE THING!!!

Subjects of ADOLF HITLER use AFRICA TWIN STATORS and they claim they run considerable mileages without any problems. What I say here is that nobody who installed AFRICA TWIN STATOR has ever experienced any problems with such setup. Maybe worth trying???

[Lucky]

Ok, first of all, my intent was not to beat up on Electrex, I still think they make a quality product, but I think our bikes are especially hard on these components, for whatever reason (hey it could be cheap wire used in the harness that is causing additional resistance, who knows? Remember, low bid wins the contract)  besides, I gave Ritzo the address here  :o

also, he has shown a willingness to work with us, I think Electrex deserves the benifit of the doubt.

lastly, all the steps we reccomend we take, PROPER testing, cleaning All the connectors, moving the r/r, soldering the connections, etc, etc, etc, is a time consuming, tedious set of tasks, that all require some level of skill.  You & I both know that those of us except the very anal have not done all the things suggested if they haven't had a problem, those of us who have had a failure have done what was needed, & possably a little more untill the problem was solved (but not fixed, get it) and only those truly frustrated have done ALL the steps (including cleaning ALL the bikes connectors)

this is a 20+ year old bike and ALL these things need to be done, regardless if the bike is experiencing problems or not.  the argument has been made that other bikes this old or older do not experience these failures, and that is true, but the Vision is NOT other bikes...  My point here is even when all these steps are taken a certain percentage (more than average) still experience failures, and THAT is the reason I'm persuing a heavy duty part., not because the bike, OEM part or Electrex parts are crap, they aren't (although the OEM part is rediculosly overpriced.

Please stop bashing a company that is picking up where other company's tell us to go take a hike...

[kiawrench]

my vision is running the kx550 r/r and a honda g-7 (i think was g-7) stator . i replaced the factory connectors all over the bike with marine grade stuff.
 I used to work on nothing but old vw beetles and vans, we had similar problems ,the fixes were almost easy, replace old wiring , one section at a time . be sure of sound connection, use marine grade connectors and splices(no speedy clips )
 ? oh the stator number is right , ?i think, was here in forum, which parts can be swapped from other bikes, as was the r/r number .... shame we cant swap tci boxes like that . but mine is hitting amps and volts, but even then , charging drops off just a bit as engine heat goes up. called a friend today , asked him to figure that part out , he going to get back to me , then i can get it out to lucky .

[Rick G]

I posted this on another thread ,but I'll repost it here as best as I an remember.
I called Ritzo today and had a nice conversation with him.
It seems that there are two bikes that have a higher failure rate ,  even when using an Eletrex stator and both are small V twins.
The key to the problem is oil temprature, The oils is ADDING heat to the windings , instead of carrying it away.  ( My new Eletrex stator will arrive this week and while I have the cover off I'm going to drill a hole to install a digital thermometer  ai the rear of the case, so that the tip is below the oil level) I am to report back to Ritzo with  base line tempratures before i install the cooler  and again after.
We disscussed this before , either here or on the old forum and the conclusion was (is ) that an oil coller is the answer. I have two used cooler  radiators and I'm going to flush them out and get them ready for use.
I'm also going to try to get hold of John Clemmens, as his racer  has a cooler on it . I believe I know how to do this , BUT I want  some expert opinions (I have no desire to scatter the bottom  end  while trying to save the stator!)
If any of you would like to surf the net looking for info on where oil coolers  need to connect  in the oil path , please forward any info to me  (rgcdn@juno.com)  
This really is not going to be so difficult, once  we get it dialed in!

[Paul_Jungnitsch]

Good idea. Aerostitch sells a digital temp gauge that replaces the stock drain plug, although it is expensive. (Come to think of it, any oil temp gauge should work in that location, as long as the right thread adapter is used).

Compare those temperatures with those of motorcycles that get good stator life, and see if there is a tie-in.

Interesting.

[jason]

If the stator failure is temperature related, would that also show up as higher failure rates in places with higher ambient temperatures?

[Dave T.]

I have a thermometer and have stuck it in the oil hole after a ride and seen 180 degree oil temperature. I assume normal oil temps are from 180-200 degrees. I know that the magnet wire in a stator is rated for temps well above this, like 392 degrees F. The magnet wire I bought is rated for 392, yet the stator that I rewound with a 100W halogen lamp in the headlight failed after 400 miles.

That stator is acting like heating elements for some reason, but since the oil temp is around 200 degrees, this will break down the enamel in a shorter time period. I am still thinking the problem is heat sinking all this current in the right way. My theory is that the stator puts out too much current for this bike and when the battery is charged fully, the stator is stuck dissipating all this heat, and cannot. Thus failure.

I could make a stator with less windings, like 14 per pole, then the output would be less. ? ???

[Kenny]

  I agree with Rick's thoughts on the oil temperature being the culprit or at least a factor. Is anyone else running a synthetic blend oil in the bike?
   I also feel the system is overcharging -case in point: on our recent cross country trip I had checked the electrolyte and topped the cells to the upper levels.In Vancouver after 5000kms the electrolyte level was only two inches from the bottom of the battery,this followed five days of 8 to 12 hour  + 65 mph rides. To me this says the system is putting out to much juice.
     I'm anxious to hear of the actual oil temps near the stator.
     Please let me know what I can do to help solve this problem.
            Thanks Ken S  

[George R. Young]

On the business about the R/R dissipating all the heat:

The stator generates all the current, the stuff that goes to the regulator, and the stuff the powers things like lights and ignition.  ALL the current flows through the stator ALL the time, full output,  'always-on' until flameout.

The current that flows through the stator wires generates heat due to the resistance of these wires. So they're always a bit hotter than the oil which cools them.

[QBS]

Do not want to seem impertinent, however it would seem that we have lost sight of the melted connector part of the equation.  Where does this situation fit into the overal cause and effect disscussion?  I can't see how either the stator or the RR would cause one (out of three)of the connections in the overal connector to melt down.  Cheers.

[kiawrench]

i dont know,, waiting for enlightenment.  


  my kawasaki  r/r and honda g-7 stator still working ,
will be popping open again when my gaskets get in from yamaha , (yes i did sloppy side cover seal, and used indianhead bond instead of yamabond,so ideserve the extra work ) am going to pull stator and ohm it all out, see if there is a difference after loggin g@1500 miles on it ,, i wrote all that down when i had to redo starter clutch bolts, so there is a good start on heat wear/stress check up.

[Lucky]

QBS, unless I misunderstand your question, I'm surprised you asked it, considering your one who originaly suggested cleaning all the connectors on the bike...

Well anyway, to recap, the connector as you know, builds up corrosion over time, causing resistance which equals heat, melting the connector causing more resistance, a vicious cycle.

I'm no electrical engineer, so why exactly that causes the stator to burn I don't know, and why this seems to kill the R/R, I also don't know. (that I asked above)

[Dave T.]

I have had 3 stators go and never had a melted R/R connector. Just FYI.

I was also wondering about disconnecting one of the white wires and running it as a 2 phase system. I read this doesn't work, but no real answers.

I think it would be nice to have an electrical engineer answer some questions. I don't know any personally.