Electrex Stator.....Which way is out?

[RRD]

OK.......the saga continues   ::)   Finished putting the new Electrex stator in Thursday night. Put a new Diehard battery in yesterday. Charged it up overnight. Went out this morning, and still getting that slow "wuwr wuwr" sound while it's barely turning over. Also hear an almost "scraping" sound???

My question is this......Which side of the Electrex stator faces out (towards me) and which side faces away (towards the crankcase). Don't have a manual, and the Electrex instructions don't say, and STUPID me forgot to pay attention when I took the old one off. The wire harness on the new one seems to come out the opposite side of the original one (provided that was the original). Right now I have the side with all the criss-crossing wires facing me (away from the motor) and the wire harness coming out from the back (at the back of the crankcase, between the crankcase wall & the stator).

I looked at the bolt markings on the old stator this morning, and I'm wondering if I put it in backwards......Can you put it in backwards......Or maybe it doesn't even matter, though I'm thinking it has to?? As an added bonus, I locktited all the bolts before putting everything back together!!   :o

Please advise......As the next money I'm investing is in a .357 to shoot the damn thing & put both of us out of our misery. After 3 summer's of jerking around with this bike, and only a couple months of riding during that time, I'm quickly reaching the end of my rope!!  Thanx guys!

[scootertramp]

RE-DO.  ::)

[Lucky]

call Electrex, they have a toll free support number (or they used to) but their reg number is 760-433-0184

[QBS]

Regarding your slow cranking starter:  Sounds a lot like your starter may have a failed oil seal that has allowed the brushes to become oil soaked and thus ineffective.  Diagnosis:Remove the starter from the engine (will require draining the oil first)and attach a positive jumper cable from a well charged 12V battery to the bolt sticking out of the motor.  Then touch the body of the motor with a negative jumper cable. The motor output shaft should spin rapidly with a slight torque reaction.  If it doesn't, you have either worn out brushes or oil soaked brushes or both.  The fix will probably include new brushes (Don't freak out.  It's not a really big deal) and definately replacement of the oil seal with a proper spring lip desighn.  All of this has been discussed here often.  Read up on it.  Once correctly repaired, your starter will give you many years of dependable service.  If you don't have a Haynes manual, get one.  Cheers.

[RRD]

Yeah............Ya' still want my step by step advice on how to do this Scooter?!?  Pay someone else!!   ::)

OK..........read all your guy's advice, but no one answered my question about which side of the Electrex stator faces out towards me.....the side with all the individual strands of criss crossed wires on it..........or the other side that the wire harness comes out of? Or doesn't it really matter?

[Rick G]

It really matters  The factory book  shows the wires  are located against the  OUTER case so that they are out of harms way. Sounds like you may have revedsed it . You probably have a bad starter too, but its not that bad of a fix.  Email me at rgcdn@juno.com and I'll scan the page from the book and send it to you ,it you like.

[RRD]

The factory book  shows the wires  are located against the  OUTER case so that they are out of harms way.

Thanx for the advice & the offer Rick!  Just want to clarify your above comment though.....which wires are you referring to.....the individual criss-crossing copper wires all the way around the stator, or are you referring to the 3 wire harness that comes out of the stator & runs to the back of the bike, plugging in around your battery? And when you say "outer case".....are you referring to closest side to me as I'm facing the bike? Just want to be extra clear on this before I go tearing into those locktited bolts again!!    :'(

[Rick G]

I still think I should send apic.  , I'm refering to the 3 wire harness  and it is next to the Outer cover, the one that the stator os mounted in.

[RRD]

I still think I should send apic. ?, I'm refering to the 3 wire harness ?and it is next to the Outer cover, the one that the stator os mounted in.

I sent you an email earlier this morning to facilitate you sending the pic from the manual. Thanx again for the offer!

As far as the stator being mounted to the outer cover......Isn't it mounted on the inside, or back cover? You have to take the outer cover off to get to it, right?

The way I have the stator mounted right now is with all the individual copper wire strands (the ones going all the way around the one side/face of the stator)facing me, away from the back cover, and the 3 wire harness is on the back side of the stator, in between the stator, and the back cover/crankcase wall, away from me.

Sorry if it seems like I'm being anal about this......Hard to describe in type, and just want to make sure we're on the same page before I tear everything apart again.

For the sake of arguement......If I do have it mounted backwards, would that affect the bike starting, &/or making the "scraping" noises I'm referring to?

[RussD]

Hey Lucky......You out there??  

OK......Tore the left cover off again. I think the wire harness comes out the opposite side of the Electrex stator than it did the original. I don't believe that's the issue anymore....Think we had it in correctly. Cleaned the battery cables, and the starter cable to make sure we were getting good connection.

Had to charge the battery up again because it was kinda drained, which baffles me, 'cause it's brand new. For the first couple days it wouldn't start, I would go out and crank it a few times to see if it would miraculously turn over, but then it's just been sittin' for the last week.

Anyway, got the crankcase put back on, and dropped a quart of oil in, hooked the battery back up.........And now all she does is "click, click". Have lights OK. Doesn't even give me ther "wuwr, wuwr" sound anymore.  Bear in mind I already replaced the r/r & the CDI box last summer. Normally when your car does that, it means your battery is dead, but again, just got a brand new Die Hard last week.

Do you still think it's possibly the starter, like Rick & some of the other guys suggested on here, or would that only apply if it was making the "wuwr, wuwr" sound still. Don't understand how the starter could suddenly go bad, when it was starting fine last summer when I finally fried the battery from continually charging it because the stator wasn't keeping it charged. HEEELLLLLPPPPP!!    :'(

One other thing.......When my buddy was putting his meter on to check the battery, when he put the black to the negative post, it started sparking, and he said that's not normal. Could that be a sign of something wrong, or nothing to worry about?

Thanx,
Russ

[rabidmonk]

Hey Russ, I just went throught the same thing you're going through last week (not the stator thing, haven't had the honour of replacing yet) and it sounds like your starter is out to lunch...the clicking you hear is coming from the starter solenoid, which means its still working..
try this next time...grab a rubber mallet or a hammer, and while hitting the start button, gently or really rough, whatever turns you on :) tap the starter motor ..just don't beat it like you would a red-headed step-child (no offence to red-headed step-children :-*) That should cause it spin a few times..if it spins you got oil in the starter, if it dont spin, you probably still got oil in the starter...either way, you gotta drain the oil outta the engine, and remove the starter...
After that pickup your yellow pages, lookup "bearings" and call all the bearing houses in your area, and ask if they have a double lip (single will also work) spring seal 20x35x6mm...then goto Lucky's site, print out his starter motor rebuild instructions, and dig in...its not that hard, i did it and i'm a borderline retard (well, thats what my mamma tells me ?:'()
There's only a few pieces to it, but a few things to watch out for...if you dont have a haynes (which you really should) remember how the washers and the spacers go onto the communicator..it should be washer,spacer,washer on both sides...when you get it apart, get a can of non-chlorinated brake cleaner, and give all the parts a good spraying to get rid of the oil. ?Also measure the positive terminal brush, it shouldnt be less than 4.5mm long, and make sure its in good condition, no chips or deep scratchs... use some heavy duty high temp grease on the planetry gears...and be careful with the o-rings, they may be fragile. They're not normal o-rings, they're flat on the ends, dont know where you can get them if they break..
Ohhh, and make sure when you put it back together, that you don't short the ?positive brush to ground, like i did, unless you like smoke...
<edit>
ohhh..about the battary sparking...that will happen if you try to take an amp reading with a multimeter that can't handle the current.  Tell him to check his meter, it probably can only read upto 10amps...also tell him to check the fuse on it too :)

[RussD]

Thanx Nick! Funny.......I just wacked it with a hammer this morning before reading your post right now, and it did immediately start turning over. Retards must think alike!!   ;) In fact.....I got REAL EXCITED 'cause I thought the damn thing was actually, finally going to start!!  But it just turns over a few times, then it'll give me the "click, click" again, then I wack it with the hammer some more, and it turns over a few more times. Won't fire though, so it seems like it's not getting enough spark.

Charged up the battery again last night, and hooked it back up this morning. Still got the "click, click" so I figured I'd try wacking the starter with a real hammer this morning (tried being a nice guy last night & only used a rubber mallet....that didn't do crap). I hope I didn't waste $166 on a new stator, when the problem seems to be the starter. The shop I had work on it last year tested the stator readings about a month after they fixed the r/r & the CDI box, and they seemed to think it wasn't quite recharging the battery the way it should. Plus, I don't remember having any starter problems last summer, so hopefully it really was the stator! Though I don't understand why if the starter was working OK last summer, & it's been sitting for a year, why now all of a sudden it's giving me problems now?!?    ???

[Rick G]

When  a starter is on its last legs ,it will draw an excessive amount of current  and battery voltage will dip down, The TCI will not function below 10 volts (or so), so when the starter is hogging the power the bike won't start. Fix the starter and it will probably start right up.
 As to the why of it starting last year but not this year , its simple , it will work with a little oil in it and some dust from the brushes   but past a certain point it won't  and it passed that point.

[RussD]

Hey Rick......What's a TCI I keep hearing you guys talk about?

Also.......how would anymore oil or brush dust get in the starter if it hasn't run since a year ago?

Is there anyway to test the old stator now that it's been cut off the bike, to tell if it was even bad to begin with?

[RussD]

P.S. Rick.......You need to hurry up & do another post to change your # of posts.........Not so good!!!    :o

[Rick G]

It stewed in its own juces all winter  and then said "I've had enough "!
 The TCI is the black box ,located under the right  plastic side cover ,inext to the coolant recovery tank. It stands for "Transistor controled Ignition"  Its not CDI  (capacitor discharge)  . Avoid  getting water in it and if you do spray it thoughly,  in side with WD 40 or LPS  but don't try to remove the cover , just spray it around the edges into the box.
 the old stator can be tested with an ohm meter  to see if any of the leads are shorted together or shorted to the iron core (ground  when installed in the bike .
 On a x1 scale it should read .32 ohms  + or - 10 %  measuring from white to white then measue  each lead to the core  it should read   infinite ohms  (or open circuit)  Let us know what you find . Also you can inspect the epoxy on the  windings , if its VERY black and crumbly  with some bubbles in it,  don't even bother with it, even if it measures ok, it have very little life left in it.

[Walt_M.]

And, if the seal is bad, and it probably is, oil could seep into the starter even if it isn't running.
Another thought, when did you last clean your carbs? If it set for several months, they probably need it. Remember, it will reward you for riding it and punish you it you don't!

[RussD]

Easy there Walt......One project at a time!! ? ;) ? This project was supposed to just be changing the stator, now I've got a bad starter on my hands. The last 2 summers I've had to replace the r/r & the CDI box. I've only gotten to ride this baby 2 months in the last 2 years 'cause it's always broke down.

Believe me.......I wish I could get her to run long enough for me to ride it for a whole summer! I've got a friend who's got an old Norton, Triumph, & other assorted bikes. He's been helping me work on the Vision, and even he's getting frustrated now. He told me the other day I might want to think about having an exorcism performed, as it seems to be posessed because everytime we fix one thing on her, something else goes wrong.......just like now.

Don't jinx me on the carbs! ?I'm literally praying to get a few weeks riding time out of her before the weather starts getting any crappier than it already has been this summer in Ohio! My budget is shot after the new stator & battery.......if anything else goes wrong with her, she'll be sitting for another year possibly. Kinda' like being a kid & getting a new toy for Christmas, but it doesn't work, so you can't play with it.......Just look at it and think what could of been! ? ? :'(

Also....the coating on the old stator IS black......don't know about the crumbling plastic or bubbles though....Don't think so. I just figured that was the color of the plastic coating, or from the oil??

[Rick G]

You have covered most  (but not all )  of the common rpaiirs that are needed  on a V, in the first 3 years after returning it to service.
Don't give up now ! Some of us luck out and get some riding time in between  these crisis, I put 400.00 in mine befor it hit the road the first time , but then it ran for 3 summers befor anything serious went wrong that was 17,000 miles , so I'm not unhappy . As soon as you get it on the road you will be glad  you put the effort into it.  good luck  !    

[RussD]

Hey Nick, Rick, Lucky, Walt, or whoever....... ? :P

As far as that double lip clip goes for the starter......Is there a reason I couldn't get that at my local Yamaha dealer....Is that a part they would stock, or is it something freakishly unique to the Vision? The reason I ask is, we have a couple of dealers in the area, but not sure if we have any bearing houses.....Findlay's not that big a town.....only about 40,000.

P.S....What's a ballpark price on that clip......couple bucks??