New Visioneer.

[YellowJacket!]

I have a bad cell in my battery.  Apparently while on the tender, the water/acid level droped to zero in one cell.  In the voltmeter it reads 12 volts and it will crank the bike, but the bike won't start.  I hooked another battery up and it fired right up.
So, if it has sat for a while the battery may not be good.

David

[QBS]

Random thoughts:

1.  If you need a battery, go the Wal-Mart and spend approx. $32.00 on their cheapest correct sized battery.  Spending big bucks on high tech, whiz bang batterys for your MC is wasting $.  Also do a search on "Battery Tender Jr." on this forum.

2.  When some of us use the term "coil", we are referring to a componet of the ignition system more specifically known as a "Spark Coil".

3.  Buy  a cheap "Multimeter" from Radio Shack or the like.  Invaluable for diagnosing electrical gremlins.

4.  The first place to start your electrical restoration is with the fuse box.  Most unrestored Vs have fuse boxes that are complete non functional trash.  Carefully evaluate the condition of your fuse box and don't hesitate to replace and upgrade it if necessary.  As always, search the Forum archive for extensive discussions regarding this item.

5.  Make up pair of what are commonly refereed to as "jumper cables".  Attach an alligator clip to each end of a 3' piece of light weight stranded insulated copper wire and you're half way there.  Make a duplicate and you've got a diagnostic tool as valuable as your new multimeter.

With these two tools you can trouble shoot any electrical gremlin your V may have.

6.  Is a fuse or light bulb really good, or...not?  The continuity function of your new multimeter will say for sure.  Looks can be deceiving.  Assume nothing.  Check for continuity.

Cheers.

[supervision]

Here's what I would do if I was trying to crank over the engine and see how the starter is working.  With a set of jumper cables from a running car, I would  clamp the Positive cable straight to the post on the starter (you may need to pry back the rubber boot to see it)  be carefull your cable only contacts the post not the case of the starter.  Next take a pair of  vise grip pliers and clamp them to one of the large engine bolts. This give's you a good place to touch the negitive cable when you want the engine to turn.  It's going to spark alittle, that's why you have the vise grips, cause you don't want the bike to suffer the small arching.  Any time you touch the neg. cable to the vise grip it will turn the starter, if it does't the starter or one of your cable's needs adjusting... The running car will supply 14 volts to the starter, it will be happy to get it!    By doing it this way, you are isolating the starter from the rest of the bike...    Remember you have to unhook the neg. cable to stop the starter.. you are the switch.   If it act's like it doesn't want to turn right over you will need to repair the starter.  sv

[Tiffanator]

Hey thanks everyone for all the tips and suggestions.  Sorry I haven't replied sooner, I've been off doing projects for other people and just got home, but have to leave again soon.  Here's a rundown of what I did:
1. Snipped the connection of the 3 white wires to the stator, soldered each one, lathered it with liquid tape, and covered it with heat shrink, then pulled the wire cover back over it and wrapped the whole thing in electrical tape, should be a neat and tidy waterproof connection.
2. Soldered the wire that runs from the positive terminal of the batter to the starter solenoid, apparently whoever had it before me replaced this wire with a bigger one and the ring connector wouldn't fit over the wire, so they wrapped it in bare wire to hold it together.  I soldered everything up nicely and coated it in liquid electrical tape.  Another waterproof connection.
3. Replaced the botched wire connection on the wire to the neutral switch.  Soldered the new wire in, coated in liquid tape and covered with heat shrink.  Then soldered a ring connection to the end, covered it in liquid tape.  Cleaned and sanded the connection point on the engine, clean and sanded the screw, then reattached.
4. Pulled off the oil pressure sensor wire, checked the connection, sanded the ring connector and cleaned the connection on the engine, then replaced.
5. Cleaned the fuse panel.  Pulled off each fuse and sanded both ends.  Wrapped sandpaper around a screwdriver and sanded the parts that hold the fuses in place for a good connection.  Replaced the fuses.
6. Pulled off the handlebar unit and cleaned the contacts for the start button.
7. Checked all connections to make sure they were correct and securely hooked up.  They are all dirty so I need to go through more thoroughly and clean each one.
8. Pulled the positive off the starter, cleaned the ring connector on the wire and lightly sanded it.  Cleaned the post and lightly sanded it. Reattached the wire.

Ok... so I'll admit, I bought a brand new batter, but had to fill it up with acid and let it charge for 6 hours... but my charger is at my parents.  I didn't get it until this morning... so last night I had the bike hooked up to my truck (not running) battery to work on it.  Initially I was just going to test lights/turn signals but accidentally jumped the solenoid.  The new battery will be fully charged shortly and I'll plug it in.
Now for other problems... The clutch cable works, but its really tight.  What kind of oil/lubricant can I put in there to work it lose again.  Same thing with the throttle cable, although its not as tight.  Brakes are pretty much locked up, which I think it why the brake light comes on and stays on.
I will look into replacing the fuse panel, it is old and very dirty so it would be a good idea.  I'm guessing the auto mini blade fuses will fit in that space under the seat?  Did you use the same bracket and modify it to fit the mini blades or get a whole new bracket?
I bought a multimeter and was using it last night... very handy little gadget.
Supervision... thanks for the tip.  If I can't get it to work with the new battery I may try that.  It seems like there is a short somewhere between the starter button and the solenoid, cause I'm getting nothing at all when I hit the button.
One last question... is there a reason the lights come on and stay on the whole time?  Oh yeah... and the plastic connectors that house all the wires going into the TCI are dry rotted and falling apart, anyway I can replace those?  If I can't replace them I have worked with epoxy resin before and could basically encase them in that to hold the wires in place and waterproof them.  I'd have to cut up the resin if I ever needed to access them though.

Thanks again everyone for the help.  I worked on the bike til 11 last night and I'm sure tonight won't be much different.
Tiff

[YellowJacket!]

Hi Tiffany,

One silly mistake I made in my early Vision days was that while I was trying to start the bike, I turned the key on and hit the start button.  What I'm saying is that I totally forgot about the "Run/Stop" rocker switch right above the starter button.

David

[Tiffanator]

Hi David.. yes.. I made that mistake a few times.  But I did make sure that the run/stop button was set to run... I had to look hard because the paint has been rubbed away, but I tried it with the switch set both ways and got nothing.  One thing I did notice that was when I would switch the button over from "stop" to "run" or vice versa I would get a click that sounded like it was coming from one of the relays.  Not sure if this means anything.  I was thinking there might be a problem with that switch or relay that is not letting the bike know that is on.
And I need to clarify one thing... the connectors that are dry rotting... the part that actually connects into the TCI is fine, its the part that you grab to unplug/plug it that is rotted.

[Night Vision]

when I got my Vision, I had "starter button" problems...

I think you're on the right track about the "clicks" which relate to the relays. both the starter solenoid by the battery and the other relays behind the TCI

When you turn the ignition on... you should hear some clicks
when you rock the kill switch... you should hear some clicks
when the bike is in gear and you pull the clutch in ... yshsc
when the bike is in gear and you swing the kick stand up and down... yshsc

these are all clues that may point to a relay that isn't working.
any or a combination of these relays can prevent the starting procedure..

you might be able to match up the TCI plastic connectors here:

http://www.mikesxs.net/mikesxs-electrical.php?category_id=2.6

Also... I know you're excited, but be careful about being in a hurry to get the V up and running... what I mean by that is....

example: unless you run a diagnosis on the stator or R&R... you may have hardwired a toasted stator...

if you get too many things going on at once... it makes finding out what's wrong that much more difficult. combo problems are the hardest to diagnose

[h2olawyer]

The lights turn on with the key & stay on.  That's how the system is designed.  You're supposed to ride with the lights on at all times anyway - helps with your being seen.

Keep cleaning electrical contacts.  Call it "bonding" with your new friend.  Sounds like you're headed down the right road.

H₂O

[QBS]

Tiff, you've been reading some archived posts.  From time to time I'll be reading various Vnary postings and run across a tip or reported action taken and recognize an idea that I mentioned long ago and far away.  Your sanding the inside of the fuse pedestals and the fuse ends sounded real familiar.

When the key is in the "on" position, the transmission in neutral and the engine not running, every light on the bike should come on with the exception of the brake light.  Your brake light is probably on because either its' switch is misadjusted or frozen with its' little pull rod in the pulled out/on position.  Clean and adjust as needed.

Your V is wired so that a relay kills the headlight for sure, and maybe other lights when the starter button is pushed.  This is common MC design practice and is done to make max voltage available to the starter and ignition systems during the starting process. 

If you push the starter button with the key in the "on" position and, with either the bike in gear or the run/off rocker switch in the "off" position, you should hear the click of the relay that kills the lights, and the ignition and starter systems.  If the safety interlock set of relays are operable, the bike will not crank if the transmission is not in neutral.

The safety interlock relay system is prone to being a real PITA and very troublesome.  Don't even think about getting me going on the damned side stand switch.  Definitely not one of Yamahas' better thought out specifications.  It's right down there with the starter motor.  Specify an above oil level starter motor for a below oil level application,   BRILLANT !!

Sounds like you may have to splice in a new TCI connector.  Maybe another Vnary has a wiring harness that is beyond repair and could donate this critical connector.

[kiawrench]

tiff--
    go down to the closest auto parts store and buy two cans of  "pb blaster" , this stuff will save you a lot of rust fighting, slick up your cables, and best of all-- it isnt a can of gunk that will expode as soon as it warms up outside like wd-40

    to loosen bolts, just spray it on,let it soak about five minutes and the pop bolt out like it was just done by someone else. trust us all on this one, it will do a lot of stuff wd-40 cant even pretend to do.

  as for the electrical nightmare you are in, i cant offer any more direction that others havent already offered. if i was closer, would just fix it.  Docs have me out of work again, until after my next surgery, then may just open my own shop, do nothing and charge twice the price for it.

[Tiffanator]

Hi all.. thanks yet again for more great advice.  I come to you with another oddity.  I've been working on the bike all night trying to get the starter to turn over.  I checked and was getting 12volts to the starter but it just wasn't turning over. I was doing this by basically bypassing the starter solenoid since I couldn't get the start button to work... I know I know, should have started there, but a burned up starter would have slowed down my desire to continue, I wanted to know if it was good.  So I took it off, took it apart, cleaned it and put it back on... still nothing.  I checked the wires and it seemed that the positive line to the starter either wasn't sending the charge inside or it was grounding out on the case.  So I pulled the starter again, took it apart, cleaned it even more thoroughly than the first time and put it back in.  I jumped it and wam... it turned over.  What a great sound to hear.  Now I turned my attention to getting the start button to work.  My fust panel has a broken fuse holder which says "head"... so thinking that was for the headlight I didn't mind not putting a fuse in it.  After looking over the wiring diagram it looked as though the wire running to the ignition went through that fuse... so I held a fuse in place and pushed the button and got a clicking sound from the solenoid.  I clicked it a few more times to make sure, then took the fuse out of the holder and it still worked... whatever.  Thinking now that I had a good starter, bad solenoid I pulled it off and cracked it open, it was stuck in place so with a little force I opened it up, shimmied the spring around some and put it back together, soldered the wires back on and reattached it to the bike. 
So here comes the fun part.  I turn the key on, make sure it is set to "run" and hit the start button... nothing.  I put the fuse in the headlight fuse holder... nothing.  Ok... so maybe there is a short in the wire somewhere between the handlebar and the solenoid... or I've screwed up the solenoid more... doesn't matter, it was toast anyway.  So I decide to jump the wires and do it manually... nope, not going to do that either. I pull the wires off the solenoid and touch them together.. nothing.  How can I provide a straight current to the starter and have it do nothing? I turned the bike off and walked away miffed.  Not one to give up I cut the key back on, jump the solenoid... booyah, it turns over. So I hit the start button... nothing. I put the fust in... nothing. Make sure it is set to run, put the fuse in, lift one leg off the floor and jump up and down clucking like a chicken... nothing.  So I exaggerated the chicken part... didn't want you to fall asleep.
So here is where I stand... er... sit.  sometimes it turns over fine, sometimes it doesn't.  The times it does there is sparking when I touch the wires... the times it doesn't, no sparking.  Is this a ground problem?  Cause I cleaned and reattached the ground wire.
Thanks if you read all of that... if not.. I don't blame you... but do go back and find the clucking like a chicken part.

Thinking I've sniffed too much carb cleaner...
Tiff.

PS.. Kia... yep.. got some PB blaster yesterday, good stuff.

[YellowJacket!]

The starter wire, the big one that connects directy to the starter, may be the problem.  Mine was all corroded and dry rotted and was not making contact really good.  I found a suitable replacement at Wal Mart, cut it to the right length and wooohaaaaa it worked.  $6.00 well spent.
The good news is that you opened and cleaned your starter and there was not oil in it so you are heading in the right direction.
Electrical problems can be a bear.  Since you have been reading here a lot, I'm sure you have read about the gremlins.  There are good gremlins and bad gremlins (I hada gremlin fix my tank one day right around my birthday last year  ;D  ) but for the most part, the bad gremlins live in the wiring harness and in the carbs.  Gremlins are also good ar reproduction.  Once you find one, they just grow another.  The best thing is to stay ahead of the gremlins and keep them in check.
You realy seem like you hade the drive, motivation and enthusiasm to do that. ;D
The best news is that you engine turns, so you are on your way.  I was in the same place as you are just a couple years ago and let me tell ya, its a great feeling when the bike first cranks!! ;D  I went about it in the same manner you are now.  I took EVERYTHING apart.  I started out little by little and one thing led to another.  The next thing I knew, I had a totally disembowled Vision lying in organized piles and boxes in my garage.  I did it all on faith.  I knew that if I took it apart and put it all back together (which I had never done before) it would work.  It took a whole summer and giving up my 2 car garage but it did work.  And, I have these guys and gals to thank for it. 
You will probably have some stumbles.  You may come across an "unobtainium" part that you need.  You may sit and look at something thinking to yourself, "I know I put that back together right." but it just doesn't work.  Don't give up. Don't get frustrated.  Its a great feeling once you get it all back together and it starts for the first time. ;D

Take Care,

David

[GT @ oh.]

Check the kickstand kill switch/con. and neutral safety switch/con.....and did you oil inside cylinders as suggested (in case/when it does turn over) I have read of others having probs. with these.

[supervision]

 Tif,  if your starter worked once I think it may have quit working again. What I would do is read the voltage (or look how bright your test lite is) on the battery,then jump across the solenoid, take note of if the voltage is the same at the starter, if it is the same, that means the starter has quit working again.  When you had it apart, how did the brushes look, was it full of oil?     sv

[Tiger]

:) Tiff'
Go to your local auto store/walmart, etc and buy FIVE in-line blade type fuse holder's and fuse's. I use the fuse holder's that have a wee dust cover that goes over the fuse. Cut out the old fuse box and solder in the new holders; 1 x 20amp (main), 3 x 10amp (headlight, signal indicator's and ignition). The fith one is for inside the headlight bucket...there is an in-line fuse for the cooling fan at the rad', which tends to get forgotten about because it is out-of-sight...this is a 1 x 10amp. You can use either mini or regular holder's/fuse's. This is a weak area, as you have found, so this should be done sooner than later.

                        8).......TIGER....... 8)

[supervision]

  Tif, Here's a easy way to test your solenoid.   With the small wires unpluged, use some jumper wire to supply 12 v and ground to the two small wires, it doesn't matter witch way you hook it up, if the thing is working it will make a thud clunking sound as it brings the two large contacts together.  sv

[Tiffanator]

Hey all... thanks so much.  I went out this morning with the specific goal to figure out what was wrong with my starter.  I'm pleased to report it is fine and works consistenly now.  Here's what happened.  Ok... the nylon washer that separates the positive stud from the housing of the starter had gotten worn down and was allowing the nut that holds the stud tight to touch the housing, thus shorting it out. When I reassembled and reattached the starter the second time I backed the nut off some to keep it away from the housing, and that's when it started working.  However, by not having the nut tight up against the housing I wasn't getting a good connection inside the starter and it was intermittently getting power.  So I cut a small bit of electrical tape to act as a temporary block and tightened the nut down to secure the stud and bam... fixed.  A quick trip to the hardware store for a nylon washer and I'll be good.  Now its time to chase the gremlins out of my start button and solenoid.
Dave... I was very suspicious of that wire and pulled it out and inspected it.  The connectors and wire was dirt on both ends, but it was still good... so I didn't replace it.  However before its all said and done it will get new connectors and a good cleaning.  I have read about the gremlins and that's my biggest fear, especially with electrical because they all tend to hide each other.  I'm trying to get one system working at a time.  Right now its the ignition... once I get that figured out I'll chase the turn signals, then horn.  I can't wait to hear this kitten purr.  It was an awesome feeling last night when I heard the starter turn over.. it was like I was finally moving in the right direction.
GT... that was one of the first things I got working, especially since the previous owner hooked the sidestand switch wire into the neutral switch wire and couldn't figure out why the neutral light came on... duh.  I pulled off the stand and lubricated the switch, cleaned the contacts and checked to make sure it was clicking as was mentioned a few posts up.  All was good there. The engine still had oil in it, I drained it last night to check the starter, it was black and stinky.  I turned the engine over slowly a few times by hand, to make sure it would move.  Do I drip oil in the spark plug holes? how much do I put in there?
Supervision... the starter actually looked pretty good.  It was a little bit oily inside but not bad.  I don't have a service manual for the bike yet so I was going by the parts diagram on the yamaha website and my starter doesn't look like that one... now I don't know anything about starters, so I just cleaned this one and put it back together.  There were some very fine metal shavings that I made sure to clean out.  I'll use your method to test the solenoid... I was going to do that this morning, but wasn't sure if there was a positive and negative to it.  I'll try that now.
Tiger... thanks so much.  I was at Wal-Mart this morning and was looking at the fuse holders, but wasn't sure that's what I needed.  Next time I'm in town I'll pick them up. Should be a quick job and needs to be done as those connections are all pretty dirty.
Thanks all.. I'm off to work on the bike some more.
Tiff

[Brian Moffet]

I pumped about a tablespoon of light weight oil (actually used fork oil) into each cylinder, then turned it over by hand a couple of times using the large nut under the YICS emblem on the left lower engine cover.  Note, a tablespoon of oil is actually a fair amount of the space you have under full compression, so you want to wait to do a compression check until the oil has had a chance to make it past the rings.  With that little oil, I saw a compression jump of 30 PSI.  When I let the bike sit for some hours (about 20 in my case, just because that's when I was able to get back to it) I had more normal compression readings.

For those curious to the math, each cylinder has 275 cc of displacement.   Compressing the engine 10.5:1 drops this down to 26.2 cc.  That's the same as 1.8 tablespoons.

Brian

[supervision]

 Was there gas left in the tank?          Removeing the petcock will make easy to clean the tank to ready it for gas.  There is a brass plug on each carb on the left side a 10 mm wrech size, remove it to drain the carbs, you could try to loosen the phillips head screws next to the plugs they also drain the carbs, butt they are sometimes hard to turn, the plugs may be easier.  You can cut the fuel line and put an inline filter, the small kind they sell at bike shops. You could wait on that because if it does run the carbs will most likely still have to be cleaned.  Good job on figureing out your starter    sv     Be carefull on oil in the clyinders, don't forget to pull out the spark plugs. Get some never-sieze (SMALL TUBE) , use a very small amount on every bolt, you'll love the results, makes things come apart and go together with ease.

[Brian Moffet]

Be careful on oil in the cylinders, don't forget to pull out the spark plugs.

Where would you put the oil in if you didn't pull the plugs?  (which is what I did)

Brian