vertically challeged shock tip

[dminor]

 ;D Ok, I wanted to soften up the front shock. I've tried different air pressures, different oil, and even tried different tire pressures. Today I tried different springs. I not only got a much!!!! better ride, I lowered the frontend by about 2 inches. took it out for 140 mile ride to make sure. I had a great ride!!!
? ?The springs are from a 1978 TT500. the fork oil is 5w-50 motor oil.
? ?I already have about 1 inch shaved form the seat, now I can stand FLAT FOOTED and not have my butt on the seat.
I'm 5'8'', but I know some of you are a little bit shorter than that.
? ?I just changed the spings, I didn't add any fluid. I did take the air caps off and installed stock caps.
? I hope this help.
Don

[Lucky]

have you noticed any ft end diving or bottoming out under hard braking?  i'm guessing your not a heavy person. 

i'm a hair under 6' & nearly 230lbs & i've been trying to beef up my ft end (83 but with 82 springs..drat!) i'm running tranny fluid & added 1" to the spacers.  i've never been able to get a good consistant air pressure into the forks.  i've been shooting for 6-10 psi, but just using a guage changes it.  i've resealed the forks & still have my doubts about it actually holding air.

i've even considered drilling the forks between the tripple trees, tapping them for air fittings & installing a guage & fill valve on the dash..

[glennw]

OK Don, don't start with that again..... ;)
I've been thinking about lowering the forks about an inch in the clamps but I was worried what it would do to the steering (thinking that it would make it too quick).
Lucky, I'm about 190 and running progressive brand spings in mine. it used to be fine with 15wt...but the ride was a bit rough. Now that I have added the dual 83 discs and use ATF it dives hard :-\ Do you think going back to 15 weight would cure it? I have never tried and air in the forks but I have the right caps.
GlennW

[Rick G]

Mine has 83 forks with Progressive springs and who knows what oil (I need to change it)  But it works great. When it had the stock 82 front end  I added  air caps  and it actually had  a better ride than the progressives , especially on small bumps  like the  spacers inbetween sections of concrete freeway. I had  ATF in it . There was no excessive dive during hard braking. Those forks are on my spare bike  which I'm working on now.

[dminor]

 ;) Lucky,
  No I'm not a heavy person, about 150 lbs. The spring change seems to have just lowered the front end and softened the ride. No bottoming on hard braking,but we all know that the stock '82 has weak brakes. The is not too soft and not too hard. With the stock springs and the motor oil it rode like a jack hammer. 17 psi of air helped but I still felt that it was too harsh. I rode on the super slab and some pretty rough back roads. I only got jolted once hard enough to move my hands around on the grips,and that was on a road to nowhere ( it turned into a dirt road after about 10 miles).
  Glenns, I know you are both vertically challeged, the spring change should work well for you, and you don't have to raise the forks in the triple tree.
   I also noticed that the front was alot more stable in the turns, I still don't have a fork brace, but I don't think I need one now.
Don

[Junior]

Vertically Challenged? Ouch!

[glennw]

Now Junior..... ;D

[Brian Moffet]

? ?I already have about 1 inch shaved form the seat, now I can stand FLAT FOOTED and not have my butt on the seat.
I'm 5'8'', but I know some of you are a little bit shorter than that.
?

Actually, I'm not vertically challenged (at just about 73 inches tall) and I prefer my seat shaved down a bit.  The Corbin saddle (see lucky's site for a similar style) I bought years go allows me to have a comfortable flat-foot on the ground when stopped, and I don't feel like it bunches up my knees when I ride.

Brian

[Lucky]

Yup, i copied Brians seat.. guilty!

[kiawrench]

this must have been sent out for me!!
   i can takethe seat off, flatten both tires, wear heavy boots ,stand on a phone book and this bike is still too tall for me to flat foot with air under my jeans!

  i just restyled the seat and learned to deal with it.
  the only way i will ever flat foot a vision is to redesign the rear frame section and lean heavy into the forks to ride.
i have found ways to compensate for my lack of vertical achievement, and it does not include "hopping "on at every stop. further proof that if you like you r bike, you will find a way to ride it safely.

[George R. Young]

i've never been able to get a good consistant air pressure into the forks.  i've been shooting for 6-10 psi, but just using a guage changes it.

I used a bicycle pump to pressurize up to 15 or 20 psi, then a dial tire pressure gauge that lets you read pressure as you bleed it down to 10 psi or so. Worked for me.

[Lucky]

I've tried that too, the problem is that taking the bike pump off (with a flip lever) and then putting the dial guage (i have one) on each time looses a little a little air, so even if you drop it down to 10 psi, as soon as you pull the guage off your not at 10 psi anymore...

my thought was to tap the fork tubes between the tripple clamps to accept those fittings used on air shocks then a guage & schrader valve can be set in the dash..  i think that would be trick!  :)

[QBS]

Lucky is on the right track.? Interconnecting the two fork legs so that they are served by one Schader valve is the ultimate way to go.? Including an air pressure guage into the system is wonderful icing on the cake.? The combination of the volume of the? two forks, the system related tubing, and the air guage has the effect of making a much larger single air reseviour that is signicantly less pressure sensative to minute changes in the amount of air it contains at any given time.? Another major benefit is that both fork legs always contain equal pressures no matter what.? I have seen such installations done on older race bikes.?

Containing all the plumbing to just the top triple tree area? is the most functional way to go.? The install I saw used small diameter copper tubing and related compression fittings.? I would think that the flexability of high pressure rated plastic tubing would be an attractive alternative.

In use,? one would use a low volume high pressue air source(12V auto air pump), inputing into the inline Schrader valve, and the guage, to raise the pressue to a little more than the desired final level.? Then use the inline Schrader valve to release small amounts of air until the desired pressure is achieved.? I have run 6 PSI on my '83 for many years and find that setting to provide a comfortable ride.? I have also found that my forks hold their pressure for literaly years at a time.? I am still running the original OEM fork seals.

The pressure setting? procedure without the above described equalization system is to use a high pressure low volume source to quickly add air in just very small increments, checking pressure as you go using the air guage of your choice.? Raise the pressure to about 15 to 20 psi and then take pressure readings (noting the amount of pressure lost with each reading)until you get to the point where one more pressure reading will leave the pressure where you want it.? Of course this must be done seperately for each fork leg.? I'm not sure of exactly what pressure level blows out the fork seals.? But it seems like I read or heard somewhere that +36 psi is bad day time.? Be carefull.? Cheers.

[h2olawyer]

Easier yet - Dennis Kirk sells a system - made by Progressive Suspension.

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/product_catalog/Product.jsp?skuId=58318&store=Main&catId=416&productId=p58318&leafCatId=41606

I just set the pressure regulator on my compressor to the PSI I want to use & fill 'em up.  Double check with a good pressure gauge & refill.  Works well.

H2O

[Lucky]

or we could take the schrader valves out of ours, attach the caps with the lines with a valve in the center.. . i'll bet everything needed could be found in a well stocked brass section of the hardware/auto store

[glennw]

1. Can somebody tell me what happens to the handling when you raise the forks in the the clamps without changing the rear height? I'm thinking 1/2 to 1".

2. Is there an easy way to drop the rear 1"?    ;)

GlennW 

[dminor]

 ;)Glenn,
#1. The front can handle up to 1 inch lowering in the triple tree. If the shock is too stiff the sterring will be fast but the ride will suffer.
#2. NO. I have been looking for a shorter shock or a way to move the upper mount. My rear shock is set on the lowest setting and is still too high.
Don

[Riche]

Glenn

In the late 70?s MX bikes got larger and larger doses of extra suspension travel. During the winter one of the fun things to do with your bike was to go ice racing. Ice racers were usually flat trackers but MX guys rode too and lowered their bikes for better performance in the turns. What some of the guys did was to disassemble the forks and put a spacer under the damping rod to limit the fork?s extension. You then shortened your springs (buying new for the next season of course ). The rear was taken care of with a pair of shorter shocks. When single shock bikes became the norm the shock was dissembled and a spacer place to limit the shock extension lowering the ride height. The vision?s shock being not re-build-able (to the best of my knowledge) that is not an option.

One idea for lowering the vision rear is to shorten the shock rod. This will require a lath but only in my mind, someone else may just hacksaw the shaft and cut a new thread on the end with a button die. This idea presented not knowing how the shock eye is attached to the shaft but assuming it is threaded like many other shocks are.