Riders Of Vision

Hi all,
have you seen the lemons features in this months Classic Motorcycle Mechanics? Not sure if you get this magazine in the States? The feature gives the bike a right slagging. Amongst things that it says goes wrong with the bike are cam failures, cam chain failures, small end bearings, pistons. The list goes on an on. It makes great issue about vibration, liken it to dumper truck? I can honestly say that I think the Vision is very smooth, especially for a V twin. The feature concludes that its one of the worst bikes ever made! The editor of the article ( who is nameless ) even says that most Visions you see for sale are non runners and if you have a running one then to contact them!
My friend had in the same issue a feature published about his little Honda MB5 so he is in contact with the editor. I met the editor briefly when they were taking photographs of the Honda. Nothing was said at the time but he obviously remembers me and the Vision and has asked if I would be interested in a feature later in the year. Before I agree I would like others opinion on the feature, if only to put the record straight. Sure I agree that the Vision was not the best bike ever made, but one of the worst? Surely not. I am not sure where they got the information from on the bike but it does not sound correct to me.

you should get all the XZ's you can together & take this bastard for a ride! someone tell the .DE site, those guys can get a group together!

maybe he got his list mixed up  ??? all those slags are for maladies I've haven't seen on this forum...

I agree... sic the Hessians on him  :o

Sounds like he's just repeating the bad press from the mid 80s.  The bearing & piston troubles turned out to be the starter clutch.  Many Vs were scrapped for the sound & lazy mechanics not thoroughly investigating the sound.  We all know the starter & stator problems & how to fix them -- for the most part, anyway.

H₂O

go for it. Do the article from the view of how sorry you are so many people gave up on the bike when they thought it had blown up due to the knocking noise thinking it was cams/big end/piston etc. when it's such a simple thing to fix the starter clutch. I was talking to a friend about mine a while ago and he said "oh yeah, cool bike I had one of those but then the big end went on it and ended up giving it away". When I told him what it was and how easy it would have been to fix he was a little disappointed. The first XZ I got, the guy told me there was a problem with something broken in the cam chain tensioner, I fixed the starter clutch, rewound the stator and have been hooked on them since.

The Vision didn't sell back in the early 80's not because it was a lemon. It was because Yamaha offered a product that didn't target an existing niche, because the price was too high, and because it was out before it was ready - the press fell on the carburation glitch like a ton of brick.

But non-Vision-loving folks can't understand  ;D

Lou

 >:( Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...Sadly, this article is not available on line. However, the editor info' is...

Editor: Rod Gibson
Phone # 01507 529442
Fax: 01507 529495
e-mail: rgibson@mortons.co.uk

...I think this guy needs some feedback, (including picture's), from EVERYONE here at the ROV. Lets overflow his "in-box"...  ;).

                                  

My response has been sent:

Mr. Rod Gibson
Editor, Classic Motorcycle Mechanics Magazine

Dear Mr. Gibson,
I am an off and on reader of your magazine, Classic Motorcycle Mechanics and had hoped that one day I would see a feature about my bike, the much maligned, Yamaha XZ550rj Vision.  Well, much to my surprise, one of my Riders of Vision club friends pointed out to me that in the latest issue there was an article about the Vision in the Lemons section of the magazine.
I must point out that many of the problems you point out are not true.  Yes, the Vision has some issues and failed as a result of that.  It was, however, way ahead of its time.  And at present, has quite a dedicated worldwide following.
As a magazine that caters to the restoration enthusiast, I am quite surprised that you did not research the following the bike has now and how many of us have restored, quite easily I might add, several hundred, if not more, of these bikes to exceptional running condition.
I could go on and on…and you may be receiving many more responses like mine, about how good a bike the Vision is and how fun it is to restore and ride.  I encourage you to check out some of these sites for yourself and see how much a following the Vision has and what a perfect article you could have about restoring and riding a bike that received so much negative press.
My site with lots of pics about my restoration:   http://xz550vision.spaces.live.com/
Lucky (the carb guru) www.xz550.com
Our Home: www.ridersofvision.net  - lots and lots of stories, projects and info.
The European site: http://www.xz550.de/
Sincerely,
David Arpino
Aka DaveTN â€" Knoxville, TN  USA

Thats Awesome Dave !  ;D YOU GO BOUY  8)  If it wasnt for the dedication you all have here I probably would have gave up on this bike ! Instead I now enjoy the Hell out of riding it ! And Ive got the old ladys Vision running now also ! I will send my Kind Regards to him also !!!

 8) Superb Dave...Just what this guy needs. Keep sending them guy's... 8)

           

Another good reason for restoring them is the huge amount of variations possible and since they are so cheap you can have a bunch of them in different configurations. I just might build one like this to add to my stable after looking at the zx550.de gallery, after my adventure tourer build that is (which is 4th in line of projects/ideas for the XZ).

(http://www.xz550.de/tp3/fileadmin/xz-galerie/049.jpg)

Dear Mr. Gibson,



As i'm now your probably aware, your recent article in the "Lemons" section of Classic Motorcycle Mechanics Magazine, concerning the Yamaha XZ550 was grossly inaccurate.  The bike simply never had issues with cam failures, cam chain failures, small end bearings, or pistons. They did have issues with carburetion, starter clutches, & charging. These issues have been easily resolved by current & former enthusiasts, & thanks to the internet, we have an informal 'international team' working on the charging issues.  I'd like to mention the charging issues are no different than those experienced by other model bikes, and certainly do not diminish the bikes over all appeal.



As far as the bike being "buzzy", well, to paraphrase Ford Motor co's slogan, "Have you riden a shaft drive lately?". Yamaha's engineers designed the engine as a 70 degree V-Twin, but thoughtfully included a balance shaft. Vibration with this bike is never brought up as a topic of discussion. It would get a 'huh? what? really?" response.



In addition, this bike while not rare, is unusual, & garners a lot of positive reaction anywhere we park. The bike was billed a a sport/tourer and is definitely sport oriented. I live in Tennessee, not far from the famed route 129 'Tail of the Dragon', & in close proximity to the Smokie mountains where twists & turns abound. I can tell you from personal experience, this bike is a blast to put thru her paces.



Lastly, this bike has one more thing that many other bikes have, which is a web presence. sure there are a lot of user groups out there for all sorts of bikes, but i challenge you to find a more friendly, informative or resourceful group than Ron Ghetti's Riders of Vision: www.ridersofvision.net.  The term 'flame war' is not in our vocabulary, in fact, most often we trade, rather than sell parts to each other for no more than actual shipping costs.



I could go on, but i believe i've made my point.  I do, however, challenge you do come to our Forum and get a factual representation of the bike. I can almost guarantee there will be a member in your area who would be glad to put a 'Vision' thru her paces for you, or, if your ever out my way, stop by, we can 'slay the dragon' together (I have two Visions, i can let you ride one)



Peter "Lucky" Byer

East Tennesee, USA

Have any of you seen the article? I cannot scan the article as its copyright and I do want the XZ to feature in the magazine!

If yo transcribe it ie, type it out, and give it proper credit, it should be ok.

David

I have read this article and nowhere does it say he actually owned one or even ridden one.
The last paragraph, on reading a second time, does come over as being overly negative towards the marque.
I didn't realize at first how strong it is. But then again I also own and run an MZTS250/1 and have got used to
negative comments.

Quote from: Paul@Sheffield on January 28, 2008, 03:23:05 PM
I have read this article and nowhere does it say he actually owned one or even ridden one.

This reminds me of an article I heard on the radio the other day regarding plagiarism in the media and how rife it is, reporters directly copying whole stories and not attributing them to original writers etc. It would be worth mentioning to the editor the importance of his writers having direct experience and or attributing where they get their information form. Anyone can do a google and write a review on a bike from what everyone else slags them off about with out seeing or have owned one. And if this is the case for this particular article the copy right on the content is contentious to say the least.

i have seen a sight on the wed where some guy did a write up on an xz he had owned and he said the cams were badly pitted,camchains were no good etc,maybe the editor just googled xz 550 and read the first thing he found.    simcha will get in touch and come see your v one day

  >:( Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, i have just read this wee dicks article..."A serious flat spot allied to an agricultural transmission"..."Rusting steel and fur riddled alloy were the order of the day"..."Camshafts quickly pitted, valves burnt out PDQ, cam chains thrashed themselves into oblivion", etc, etc.....

I have a copy of this article, at the bottom of which, in sarcastic terms the editor wants people with RUNNINIG Visions to contact him... :o ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D So lets oblige him some more, eh!!!

Send me an E_MAIL if you would like a copy, you'll find my email address under my profile...

               

While this is certainly a "high maintenance" bike I find from what I have read here and my own experience that most of what this article states is untrue.
Also, while this was written on the other side of the pond aren't words like "militate" more suitable for literary journals than classic bike magazines. And can anyone enlighten me to the meaning of this sentence

Quote"...anything other than OEM pipes and mufflers was virtually guaranteed to completely banjax any form of motive power vaguely approaching normal running."

This editor sounds like someone who prefers bolt on bike mods to actual work and craftsmanship. By this article is seems he would rather complain about old bikes using a lot of fancy words and run-on sentences than actually work on them and enjoy them for what they are; a labor of love.

well, thats my .02

 :) Remember..."The pen is mightier than the sword" ... and I bet the editor can pass a pen from one ear right through to the other ear... ::) ;D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Dear Mr. Gibson,

Your magazine has been (past tense) at the top of my list for motorcycle magazines, as I own and restore classic bikes; therefore, your articles are usually read with great interest.  Now, I understand that you like to poke a bit of fun at all bikes once in a while, but this time Mr. Lou Spokes has compromised his credibility as a reliable researcher in the field of classic motorcycles.  Do you want a credible magazine or a tabloid? I guess the decision is yours?

I just read the article on page 113 “Biking Lemons” and what obviously qualifies as the stuff “old wives tales” are made of, is seemingly presented as fact.  I would not be surprised if the author cannot produce the documentation to substantiate his conclusions (I would love to see it).  In this regard, the article seriously reflects upon the magazines credibility.  I have ridden motorcycles for almost 40 years, worked on BSA, Triumph, Nortons and many Japanese motorcycles and in much of my reading, I can't remember seeing such a rant in print.  I can hardly even remember a British bike getting that kind of review, and they could come by it honestly.

In all my years of owning, wrenching and riding Japanese motorcycles I can't think of any that have actually accumulated the degree of criticism included in this article.  There has never been a Japanese motorcycle ever built this poorly (and sold), and that's a fact.  This is far from being an "honest" tabloid version of a real motorcycle article, as the dripping sarcasm goes well beyond the realm of the ridiculous.  If it is a caricature and meant to have comedic effect, that's okay, we can all laugh at our bikes exaggerated features, but stretching the truth is quite different from outright denying the truth.

It could be possible that someone has had a horrible motorcycle experience (May God spare his tortured soul) and needs this psychological cleansing rant after 25 years, and so I hope it works for him, because he needs to let it go.

I drove a Vision in 1982 when it first debuted in Canada and was impressed then with the bike.  It was fast and with torque unlike any middleweight up to this time.  I did not own my Vision until 2000 when I brought one home with the carbs in a bag and I set out to restore this classic bike.  FYI: the reason the carbs were in the bag was because of a rusty tank and that was the only reason.  I have put over 30,000 kms. on the bike and have ridden it daily without a problem in 7 years.  I do regular maintenance and it just runs flawlessly with none of the article issues.  Seven of these bikes traveled over 2000 kilometers this last summer for a rally in Syracuse New York and everyone had a blast.  Honestly, I have never seen a Vision engine die.  They have been known to be still going after 80-90000 kilometers.  The Vision has about the usual Japanese faults (which are few for the bikes of the 80’s), but not more than any other, and arguably a lot less than many others, so if you are on a rant, I expect to see a Honda CB750 (a great bike too) falsely raked over next month and so on, to be fair.

Whatever the reason for Lou Spokes putting such an article in print, I think we can virtually dismiss it as hardly worthy of a response because the fellow is obviously just not in a proper frame of mind.  If he wanted to know the truth about the Vision (a.k.a. XZ550) then he really should ask someone who knows (like read one credible magazine evaluation of the period. I would be happy to share my copies), that much is hilariously obvious (I'm still not convinced that this is not a joke or a hoax).

If this is a real article (at least as good as an old wives tale can be), then I guess there is some obvious vindication, since the Vision will still be around when Lou Spokes isn't. Maybe the moral of the story being "he who laughs last, laughs best," because it's pretty funny already.

We might as well keep it our little secret (Vision owners), the Vision rocks!  It is the Universal Japanese Motorcycle and a few lucky people have that privilege of experiencing it!


This article really begs the question: Isn't it darn miraculous that such a horrible bike is still around and some of us stupid people that don't know any better ride clear across the country (like Kenny et al. www.ridersofvision.net) on it and never experience any of the aforementioned Yamaha design problems?  I'd say the Vision has spoken for herself!

Here's to 26 years of tearing up the pavement,

Another Bizarre Canadian Vision Rider! (Toronto, Canada)

P.S. We know you Brits are ticked at the Americans, but what did we do to deserve this!

Dear Mr. Spokes;

After reading your satire "Biking Lemon's > Yamaha XZ550", I must confess that it took me several reads to really appreciate the subtleness of the English humor. Keep up the good work! I am looking forward to your next installment when you actually "find a running example" and I expect to be as mildly amused with that article, as I was with this one.

Sincerely, "Something of a following in the USA"

I emailed Tiger earlier and asked: what's the English word for '"what the fook are you talking about because you don't know your arse from a hole in the ground"?

then better my judgement chided in, and I realized this guy must already know  :D

i believe pissoff is the word you are looking for..

Quote from: kwells on January 29, 2008, 09:26:26 PM
i believe pissoff is the word you are looking for..

I tried that and got a message from their "respond to editor" that my IP address had been banned.  oops

David

Thanks for heads up Tiger!  I just sent mine.

Dear Mr. Gibson,

In my 30 years of riding and countless motor biking subscriptions, I have never read an article so full of miss information.  Has Lou Spokes ever ridden a XZ550 Vision?  I have been riding mine since it was brand new.  I can tell you that it took me 3 years of test riding new motorcycles to find a bike that had all the benefits of my 26-year-old Yamaha.

I have personally seen examples with 70,000, 80,000 and mine 40,000 miles with nary a spring and shock refreshing.  The bike is not with out issues, poor stators, starter clutches coming loose and making noise - but Mr. Spokes missed the mark on every count in his article.

I could go on, but suffice it to say that if he had any idea what he was talking about he would not have written this article.

Perplexed,

Joseph D. Vaccarino

I just posted a note about it on the German forum (www.xz550.de) with a link to a .pdf copy of the artical:
http://www.xz550.com/lemon.pdf
There may be an uprising!  ;D

 :) Your welcome Joe, but simcha deserves the credit for the initial "Heads Up"... ;)

Article's like this "biking lemons" only help our cause in acquiring Vision's on the cheap and...more to the point...our resolve to showcase our handywork once these great wee bike's are up-and-running with another permanently grinning owner, sitting in the saddle having fun.

                   

I got a  response..well sort of , from Mr. Gibson.  Heres an excerpt from a follow up email I sent him.  In the letter, I invited him to come to my house and ride my Vision.

Quote:

...I invite you to Knoxville TN to ride my fully restored XZ550 Vision on  US129 the famed Tail of the Dragon with 318 curves in 11 miles.  I'll even let you stay in my guest room.

----------------------------------------------------
Name:      David
E-mail:    xz550rj@gmail.com
Telephone:






If only we had the budget. Getting a fuel allowance to drive to Louth is tough enough.
Cheers,
Rod.

CndLouie, your message to him was a lot more interesting than his own article!!!!

Lou

So has anyone gotten much of a response from this guy yet?

I received this note from Mr. Gibson this morning (Jan. 30, 2008).  Now, I would agree that the previous article by John Nutting seems to have been a fair evaluation of the Vision weaknesses, but this last one misses the real issues with many stretched over the limit "old wives tales" spread by dealers who may have had a warranty claim, really never drove the Vision, and who just go off to some writer about their perception of a "lemon."  I do have a few more words to say, but I have appreciated his detailed response.

Hi CDNL,

I don't know why this should be, but our man Spokes seems to have touched a nerve with a handful of Canadian riders (you're the fourth), and no-one else. To be fair to him, his research for this piece consisted of talking to dealers who had experience of selling these bikes new, and dealing with warranty problems afterwards.

We also have acres of archived old magazines here; but you surely wised up years ago to the fact that journalists testing new bikes have them for a few days at most, rarely ride them for long enough to discover long term problems and have one eye on advertising contracts with the manufacturers which help pay the wages. Didn't you?

Among our writers we have John Nutting, who did ride one of these bikes brand new, and was present at the launch. He covered the bike in a retrospective MIRA Files feature in our August 2004 issue. He reports poor throttle response, clunky transmission, weave-inducing steering geometry, soft suspension, lack of power (compared to contemporaries), and concludes that it ended production in '84 because of poor sales. The XZ was, apparently, better received in the US, but it seems that not all magazine reviews were glowing...

We have the great luxury at CMM of writing about bikes without risking upsetting the manufacturer, and with years (sometimes decades) of real life dealers and riders experiences with the bikes. The Biking Lemons series has been highlighting design and marketing problems with various Japanese bikes since we began it two years ago. To suggest that all Japanese bikes were faultless is ridiculous - haven't you ever heard of a Honda CB250G5, or a Kawasaki Z400, for instance? And to hold up the CB750 as a paragon of excellence when Honda persisted in that appalling swinging caliper front brake right until the final K6 is plain silly.

All bikes have faults, and all have strong points. Most have a balance between the two, and a good bike has the balance biased in favour of strong points. I love my Z1 to bits, but have no illusions about it's handling capabilities above 80mph, and wouldn't spit my dummy out if someone pointed out it's known shortcomings.

In the interest of balance I'm currently trying to find an XZ550 for a proper road test, but am having trouble tracking one down over here. That seems to indicate that either a) no one bought them, or b) none have survived. In either case it hardly indicates a successful model.

Perhaps the only logical conclusion is that the good ones all went to Canada?

All the best,
Rod.

Quote from: Cdnlouie on January 30, 2008, 05:29:05 PM

blah...blah.....Perhaps the only logical conclusion is that the good ones all went to Canada?

or, perhaps it's because they've spent most of their lives in cold storage  ;D

I think he's just a plain asshole.
--Lucky

He is clearly a smartass.

I know of a pretty good '83 that went to Texas!

The '83 was better than the '82. But I guess the writer never knew more than hearsay. AS far as handling...I honestly run faster than most...when I can. SO if his "Z" has an issue above 80. Then he is really off base. Mine is rock solid up to as fast as the engine will pull. Which is well past a ton. But having the tapered bearings in the steering may be the key. I installed them right after I bought mine w/12k on it. Were the original one's worn? Likely not, but by 20k they usually are, so why wait? I am with Tiger on getting the bikes cheap now that they are known to some as "lemons"  ;D.

I invited him to my house for a test ride.  He declined.

David

Wait. They're comparing it to 2003 standards? Are they high? What bike from a 1982 vintage is going to have snick snick transmission? Underpowered? For a 550 in 1982 i'd hardly say its underpowered.

Lucky you made me laugh out loud!  The bearing thing is an issue for non conformists.  I'm glad that we are doing this because we, the chosen few need the perpetuate the fact that this bike was way ahead of it's time.  Is still a viable vehicle and can out handle (with $40.00 worth of bearings)many modern bikes.

Ok too much to drink tonight I'll go on tomorrow.

I decided on one more attempt and then I will let it go.  I also sent him a few pics of our ride to Syracuse NY (8 Visions) just to let him stew.

Hi Rod,

I appreciate your quick response to my remarks.  I will enlarge on my previous remarks in the interest of clarifying my point.  Let me just say that Mr. Spokes could do better than talk to a few dealers.  I would hope that you might be well aware of the backyard gossip that stems out of dealerships when their only experience with a particular motorcycle is handling a warranty claim.  I think we would both agree that new bike testers and dealers hold the truth somewhere in between, and the one to whom it matters most is really the fellow who drives the bike down the road.

From an historical perspective this motorcycle was an upscale Sport-tourer, not exactly the flavour for the average rider in the day.  From a marketing perspective I agree this bike was a “failure,” since it was too expensive with its many bells and whistles such as shaft drive, water cooled engine, virtually maintenance free valve adjustments, optional full sport fairing even with directed heat vents (one of the first tp engage the sport styling), etc. to become a popular seller overnight. You might say Yamaha put itself out of business with its own efficient 550 model four cylinders.  Dropping the Vision in year two made good economic sense more than good motorcycle sense, since the design has proven popular today in current high performance V-twin machines (as mentioned in the article).  Unfortunately, you are painting the XZ550 with a failed marketing label (while being true) does not affect the credibility of the stand alone machine.  It is perfectly fair to note that point, but to evaluate the machine according to its own character.   

Hindsight is often 20/20 and I propose that you take advantage of that option when evaluating a bike’s particular “lemon status.”  Listen to the dealers, go back and read a few test magazines (you don’t exactly have the market cornered on credibility either) and then see what’s happening to the bike today via internet forums by the fellows still riding these bikes.  This is the kind of research we need by a magazine that wants to give an accurate and current view (the one that matters) of motorcycle classics.

Strangely, this is one bike that has actually improved with age.  We never hear the kind of ludicrous remarks made in your article today by current riders, which does make one wonder if the Vision being so innovative was well beyond the understanding of most dealers.  It surely passed off the scene before some even figured out that it was not a "two-stroke." I know for a fact, an average dealer of the time could not figure out the Vision carbs because they had never seen a down-draft design before.  It’s no wonder most Visions stopped running soon enough after a season of sitting without fuel stabilizer because that is exactly how I came to get my bike so well preserved 20 years later.

“In the interest of balance” as you have proposed I would be happy to volunteer an article written from the viewpoint of a current rider (myself or others) and a Yamaha mechanic that saw the first Visions sold here in Canada. I carried out some of the early modifications which tweaked the first year Vision 82 and addressed all issues of any import, presenting a motorcycle that performs fabulously 25 years later.  I did not own my first vision until 20 years later and it has greater appeal to me now then it did at first, since I now appreciate what the motorcycling world has lost.  It’s too bad that Lou Spokes is simply unaware of how simple it was to correct the Vision engine shaking (lock-tite on the balancer shaft nut or peened starter clutch bolts), bike weaving (softer 83 rear shock spring with damping adjustment solved problem as well as $.10 PVC spacer to set proper front fork sag for rider over 150lbs), carb air box modification and re-jetting to solve the flat spot (I could go on with rebuttal here).

You can get away with writing an article like this because no one knows what your talking about anyway, but “in the interest of balance” I am sharing  these facts with you.  I can tell you that Yamaha was quick to correct the XZ550 early quirks, but no doubt owners and dealers did not correct them on many machines leading to many “old wives tales” being passed along to fellows eager to hear the latest lemon story.  Therefore, “in the interest of balance” as you have indicated, there is a flip side to this coin that you should get someone qualified to write.

Thanks for listening, I look forward to seeing an attitude of appreciation for classics motorcycles and the restoration of these fine pieces of motorcycle heritage.  I am only saddened that you have no running examples of the XZ550 left in your proud land  :'(.

Sincerely,

CDNL â€" Toronto, Canada

Not sure what standards they are using for underpowered. I've meet two guys recently (one that works in a Yamaha bike shop, one that use to) that both remember the XZ and mentioned a racer here Richard Scott turning up at the track on his new XZ550. He wiped the floor and everyone else with it, the guy from the shop said Scott did better lap times in the 80's on his XZ than most guys do on their 600's at track days now. The other one was trying to convince me Scott was the sole reason then created BEARS (British, European, American race series) here because originally it was for big twins and Scott annoyed them so much by leaving them all behind (best corner speeds) that they created a series to exclude the bike. Another wives tail, who knows but I look forward to getting a XZ550 race bike together to see what affect I can have on the post 82 classics class.

Well if Rod thinks there are no XZs running then he has either a short memory or selective recall as I met him only a few months ago on my XZ when he came to visit my mate who has had his bike featured in the same issue.
I will track him down in person at the Donnington Classic Bike show this weekend. He can ride my mostly standard XZ now or wait until the summer when I have completed by "best bike" to near new condition. ( anyone got a good condition ignition switch???)  So thats two he can ride.

I have some amazing news to share wtih you today.  After my second letter (posted above) I received this response today:

Editor Rod Gibson of CMM says:

Hi CDNL,

Thanks for this. I'm very happy to have as much informed opinion as we can get in the magazine, and some practical knowledge about rider development and fixes always goes down well. If you're serious with your offer to write a piece on the XZ your'e on.

What I need is good, high quality photography, preferably as hi-res uncompressed jpg files burned to CD or DVD. Accompanying text is best as extended captions (say around 100 words each), with a couple of paragraphs of background info. A three page feature would run with around 15 pictures and 1500 words. What I have in mind is a 'sows ear to silk purse' type feature; showing how to take a standard bike and carry out the mods and tweaks it needs to make it good.

At the same time I'll carry on looking for an XZ for a proper road test - I now have a lead on a running bike only 120 miles away, but haven't yet managed to make direct contact with the owner. If we can get a good shoot in the can this Spring both features could be running towards the end of summer; maybe even back to back in the same issue.

All the best,
Rod.

CDNL: Well, what do you all think of the gauntlet being thrown down?  We have just gained an opportunity to publish a present day article on our Visions.  Then we need to make sure our buddy "simcha" has a good bike ready to go for the spring or we could be eating crow  ;D

Of course this would be impossible without the help of you all, so if you are game, I would be happy to write up the material by putting together any quality photos and descriptions that you can provide.  If we can take the best 15 tweaks to our Visions at the same time highlighting this great machine, this could be pretty cool.

To our posterity,

Louie

Hot Shite!  Good Job Louie!

Isn't paulsheffield over there in England? Who are our other members across the pond?

David

This is great -- turning an initial negative into positive press for the Vision / XZ550!!

Awesome work, keep it up!

H₂O

Quote from: Cdnlouie on January 31, 2008, 04:56:08 PM

CDNL: Well, what do you all think of the gauntlet being thrown down?  We have just gained an opportunity to publish a present day article on our Visions.  Then we need to make sure our buddy "simcha" has a good bike ready to go for the spring or we could be eating crow  ;D

I'm not crowing, but I think the ED is tasting humble pie....

Simcha... if you can't find a switch... pm me with your addy...

Quote from: Cdnlouie on January 31, 2008, 04:56:08 PM

....If we can take the best 15 tweaks to our Visions at the same time highlighting this great machine, this could be pretty cool.

15 upgrades? gixers! I must be missing some  ::)

#1.... roller steering head bearings

I am open to suggestions on the format, but the point being to highlight the Vision experience and the process to produce a great bike for riding (present day).  Probably one pic is going to have to tell the story so it needs to be a good one with 100 words of description per pic.  You can do the steering head one NV. The sooner we get something put together and edited to suit, the better.  All we need to do is gets Lucky's site down into three pages and then make it tell the Vision story as well. Everyone can participate with providing info and checking our info, and especially getting good photography (that being one of the most challenging issues I believe).  I think we should make this a team effort because this site is focal point for some of the best Vision improvements since it was dropped by Mama Yamaha.  I am confident we have some good material that will be of interest to other classic motorcyclists.

Cheers to the CMM committee,

Louie

 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


Maybe we could take a sort of WIKI approach to the article? If you think that is a good idea cndlouie.  I think that we could all could have a look at what is being said to have a universally agreed upon approach to "tweaks" for instance.

#1.... roller steering head bearings
#2.... shock and spring upgrades

This is all I have done to mine along with keeping with the highest quality tires, brakes, and oils available.  Also, Keeping all the chassis bolts torqued and electrical connections clean have keep me going.

jv

#1 Clean your carbs thoroughly
#2 Install a fuel filter
#3 Clean your stator plug
#4 Have a non sulfated (fresh and good) battery
#5 Line your tank
#6 Good tires (you'll need them)
#7 Brake tensioner bar bolts
#8 Ride the piss out of it, as much as possible
#9 Steering head bearings & tightening
#10 Steel brake line

#3 Fork Brace

David

I think fork brace goes under 'things that are nice to have' it does help, alot, i'm not sure if the guy is wanting upgrades like upgrades or upgrades like things that'll keep you rolling.

you are hearby autherized to use anything from XZ550.com & my Vision CD, for this artical. 
Also, I have tons more pics of random parts, etc. if you need a pic, let me know (bear in mind, my didital camer is just an older HP 2.1mp)

--Lucky

Quote from: Cdnlouie on January 31, 2008, 06:45:13 PM

......Probably one pic is going to have to tell the story so it needs to be a good one with 100 words of description per pic.  You can do the steering head one NV.

umm, that may be a little difficult. All I have is a 748kb pic of the "pimpled" top race.... the bearings are installed and can't be seen. I'll do something with that, if you think it'll be good enough. 

I *think* me and lucky took some pics when we upgraded our bearings.  I think...  Hey Lucky, did we take pics??

David

Considering the gracious turnaround, I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that our editor has been doing some ROV lurking.

Fixes/ upgrades:
1. Fix rust holes in the tank(all old bikes have them) and then POR the tank.
2. Install an inline fuel filter.
3. Study up on carb tuning on the ROV site, dip the carbs, sync and tune the carbs.
4. Study up on YICS repair on the ROV site and test and repair the YICS as needed and directed.
5. Reattach the starter clutch.
6. Clean the starter motor, replace its brushes, replace the oil seal with the spring seal design.
7. Upgrade the steering head bearings to the caged roller design.
8. Upgrade the brake line or lines to the stainless steel design.
9. Hard wire the stator coil connection.

Several of these items are really old motorcycle generic, with the exception of numbers 3,4,5,6,8,9.

Just to keep it fun, maybe someone could put together a list and everyone can vote on the top 15 tweaks (rider development and fixes) that every Vision owner just can't live without.

I think that the members of ROV has made the whole process of finding a bike that has been off the road for years and supplied a reasonable restoration path, addressing the bike's weaknesses (inherited from Yamaha) and tuning it to be the best it can be as a reliable ride.  I think that would interest me as a reader and that it is probably the best way to present the XZ550 (a.k.a. Vision).

I think we could use the German fellows on this one as well if they are around or able to donate any good pics that will help us tell the story.

If we can start a new topic just to carry the information for the project that would be helpful.  I wish I had website capability to post and allow people to review what we are doing and post comments as they wish.  It is my desire not to offend anyone in this process and if that should happen please communicate with me about it so that we prevent anything heading down the wrong road.

I know we can't possibly address all the Vision features and the great ideas that have been shared here over the years, but the goal is to get the Vision out in front of readers worldwide so they might be inspired with confidence to keep these bikes running and to put some effort into restorations that will yield a really decent motorcycle.

In some ways the "bad press" helps our cause as well because it serves to get people's attention and this chance to follow up with a restoration article on the Vision is a fantastic way to attract interest.  People will realize that this is a very interesting motorcycle which only enhances their pride of ownership and desire to have one of these great bikes.

We are probably standing in a critical historical time where a bike that has been held in contempt for so many years is about to become a collectible.  Many classics are starting to move into higher values exactly because of the time that is ticking away and the number of machines are disappearing forever.

I think the Vision is transforming (in the public mind) from being "an ugly duckling into a swan" because now it can appreciated for the fact that it has survived, riders & owners like those on ROV have worked out solutions to enhance the motorcyle and guarantee its preservation.  You fellows have done a good job and this is a time to translate that work into public success.  I appreciate what you all have done and I think we should say "Yes" to this opportunity.  I will shoot him an email tomorrow and see if we can't kick this project into gear.

Do I hear a "So say we all"?

Sounds good!

aye

email him and tell him we "might" be able to come up with ten...... but we really can't find all that much wrong with a Vision   :P

I like QBS's list so far..... number 10 could be: ride it to as many ROV meets as possible  ;) :D

I want a picture from you NV of your new lovely lady.  It's the only one we have that looks like the European bikes so we might need to use that. So takes lots, it shows off a nice predator exhaust.

ummm... ok.. but I need to fire her up first. I couldn't bear to think she's all show and no go. that would sort of defeat the pupose now wouldn't it.  :-[

oh, and get my clutch pack unfrozed  >:( 

I'm shooting for Saturday or Superday

I could always outfit my Red bike with my newly acquired Euro plastics and tank

Sit on the old girl and rock her back and forth with the clutch pulled in from time to time to see if it will break loose the plates.  If you can get her to run and get the oil warm that usually helps as well.

Very cool news.  More candidates for the 15 upgrades

#9  add air fittings on '82 forks
#10YICS box test&repair
#11 voltmeter
#12 carb sync and
#13 mixture adjust
#14 new fuse block
#15 exhaust system
#16 Star silver paint?

I am hoping Tanno's R/R will see the light of day and when it does, it would be near the top of the list

One thing to consider when compiling a list would be that many 82 issues were addressed in the 83 design such as suspension and carburation.  Also most old bikes probably need very similar things that we have adopted as upgrades but really might be considered maintenance.

Kwells you are right about the 83 addressing the 82 issues, but unfortunately the Vision reputation was established with the issues of the 82 and I think it okay to use the 82 as our article focus since most fellows are struggling with the 82 issues and have provided wonderful solutions. I think we are showing how riders have coped with those issues and provided themselves with a great ride in the end.

Does that make sense?  I agree it will be hard to separate the issues to highlight, but even those that are common with other bikes will attract interest since the procedures can be applied to their bikes as well.

 :) Wow, this has really snowballed!!! We now have a great chance to right a lot of perceived wrongs regarding the Yamaha XZ550 Vision...

However, If no one here minds, can we stop, step back a wee bit and take this great opportunity a bit at a time.

1 - Seeing that CanadianLou is in contact with Classic Mechanics, I for one, would like all of the info' to filter through him as our.......ROV Editor-in-Chief, (providing that first, CdnLu is O.K. with this !!!).

2 - A seperate thread, listing and agreeing upon, up-grade's that helped rid the "V" of some of its original...quirks...(Not forgetting what Yamaha did from our '82 to the '83), as well as other one's that have helped develop our ride's to what they are today.

Now, what say you all....... ;)

           

RE: #2
Thats a great idea tiger.  It would be even greater if it could be stickied and locked, say like a repository for the most famous of the fixes and their solutions.  The original poster would be able to unlock it and update it so it won't get filled with lots of OT (yes, I'm sometimes to blame) comments.  It would also serve as a great starting point for new members to find info without having to dig through deep searches and archives.
It'd be like a combination of Lucky's site and ROV all in one place.

David

Sounds a good idea to me. I am going to see Rod this weekend. I will try and get some feeling on how serious he is about this feature. The last thing we want after all this work you guys have put in is for the bike to be damned again! I am on a big push to get my standard bike up and running for the spring / summer. I want to offer him the ride so he can make his own judgment. I have most of the top 10 mods already on the bike so it should be about as good as it gets. I would love some 83 carbs just to take it to the extreme but I guess they are like hens teeth? The rest of the 82 to 83 changes do not seem that big an upgrade to me. Mainly cosmetic ( we always had the twin discs ).

My best bike currently has a freshly powder coated frame, brand new tank, panels, mudguard etc. Rebuilt and powder coated twin calipers with new pistons, seals and pads. Slotted disc rotors. Rebuilt and polished forks with new seals, progressive springs and air tops,. Fork brace and taper bearings. Standard silencers and new down pipes. Re chroming or powder coating of all other small parts. Bright zinc plating of all standard bolts, springs clips etc I have some 82 carbs to rebuild along with the Yamaha air box mod kit and the engine to sort. I will at least have to strip the heads off and do the starter clutch etc So quite some work to do there. I do need the following parts if any of you guys have them for sale or swap.

Ignition switch
Cover for the horn at the top of the forks.
Carb inlet rubbers.
Good warning light assembly thats not sun faded or cracked.
Ideally some new instruments.
Some 83 carbs!

I would like to show Rod my modded bike too if I can. This has non standard paint, MAC exhaust, aluminium foot rests, gear lever and brake pedal. It also has an FZR600 fork assembly along with twin piston calipers etc. Stainless hoses, taper bearings etc. Not much different but looks far different and sounds fantastic.!!

Quote from: simcha on February 01, 2008, 03:26:09 PM
This has non standard paint, MAC exhaust, aluminium foot rests, gear lever and brake pedal. It also has an FZR600 fork assembly along with twin piston calipers etc. Stainless hoses, taper bearings etc. Not much different but looks far different and sounds fantastic.!!

simcha, do have pictures for us?  I have another V that I may modify.  Love to see other ideas.

jv

Quote from: simcha on February 01, 2008, 03:26:09 PM

I do need the following parts if any of you guys have them for sale or swap.

Ignition switch
Cover for the horn at the top of the forks.
Carb inlet rubbers.
Good warning light assembly thats not sun faded or cracked.
Ideally some new instruments.
Some 83 carbs!

I have simcha covered on the ignition and I'm getting cool  "ant eater" rear fender  ;D....
I know Jason appreciated Kenny's when he was following Kenny in the rain

hi just a note of caution,if we come up with a list of serious mods that need to be carried out to make the xz a good bike are we not proving his point? i have not had my v running yet but would suggest we concentrated on things like carb and electrical maintainance etc just a thought

that's why I said we "can't find 15 things wrong with a Vision"

here's another thought though..... we should mention the parts network we have and how the ROV members swap/trade/sell parts world wide..... I have parts from:

USA
Canada
Germany
New Zealand
Japan
United Kingdom
and possibly Australia (I forget)

I've even sent parts to Sweden  :)

I think a lot of the upgrades are just common sense on a 25 year old bike. Most bikes no matter how they are now viewed are 25 years old do benefit from modern rubber, taper bearings etc. The cleaning of carbs and keeping electrical connectors clean etc is good practice on any bike too. Thats what really pissed me off about the article in the first place. Show me any Yamaha of that era or any other Jap bike that does not have similar issues with sticking brake calipers, rusting frames and corroding aluminum. They all did it, I was there I saw it! Its just that the classic bike mags love the Kawasaki Z1, Yam RDs and Suzuki kettles, Honda Cbs  etc and good as they are they were still suffer the same fate as the XZ. You only have to read the questions and help pages in these magazines to realize that all the bikes are suffering the same issues. By the way does this Lou Spokes guy who wrote the article exist? Or is it some play on words... Loose Spokes?

There are no major problems with the carbs.  The 83's are better. so. Many manufacturers don't totally get it the first model year.  A lot of dealers had incompent mechinics who when confronted with something new we unable to , to what?  Take the time to figure it out??  I have only had to clean mine once in 25 years and that was after it sat for almost a year.  If you get any bike that sits for years on end, things will have to be addressed.  I can tell you that riding the hell out my bike has kept it going.  When I bought my bike new, the day after I bought it, I adjusted the carbs because I did not like the way it ran  (not knowing at the time that down draft carbs were unique to the V) but I never new that there were "carb problems" with the V until much later in it's life and the  rumors were out.
(Clean, well adjusted carbs are not an upgrade)

I changed my bearings after 16 years and could not believe that I rode that tank slapper for that long.
(Bearings Important)

I don't think that the 82 shock was a bad thing for the bike but 20 years is 15 years too long for any shock regardless of it's mileage.
(Shock and springs are shot now 25+ years later!)  This is not an upgrade to the original design!

The stators deserve the bad press if you ask me.  I have not read one article out of our community that talks about them though.

I have gloated for years about the handling of my bike.
What else is there?

A suggestion:
play down the 15 problems,  a line or two about the needed fixes (starter clutch, starter seal, R/R connectors, etc) & use the rest of the 1450 words to really highlight what this bike is all about.  if they want to know more they can visit our sites.

This is our chance to right 25 years of bad press. use it wisely
--Lucky

Lucky speaks with wisdom.

 I think Lucky makes an excellent point, no need to paint a negative picture on the bike.  Maybe better to mention the perfect torque, out of the turns, quick steering and nimble. This bike is a good match of power and handleing.   They require a little sorting out

Some good feedback fellows, I will continue with some follow-up questions to the editor to see if he is going to consider our Vision project (give him a cooling off period) and then just how can we define the parameters of the "story."

We might summarize some of your thoughts:

1. Present the Vision in a positive light emphasizing strengths of the bike for rider enjoyment. The Vision has a broad application in this area as well as a strong rider support base which is the equivalent of other popular classics.
2. Address issues that often face any classic bike restoration for universal appeal.  You can never have too much of the classic mechanics.
3. Highlight innovative approaches to solve weaknesses of Vision.  It will come as no surprise that the 83 does correct the weakness in the initial 82 design.  Unfortunately, few people realize this fact.
4. Tell a great story about a great bike which any motorcyclist can enjoy.

The pictures need to assist the telling of the story and sharing a genuine motorcycle experience with the reader.  I am not sure how difficult this may be to pull something together that presents a unified viewpoint of the Vision, especially in such a short period of time.  I am not certain if anyone could do it or even collectively we could pull it off.

It is something to think about and I am certainly challenged with the idea so I will pick up some more correspondence and see if I can narrow the expectations and the idea that would be doable within this short period of time.

I like the idea of having access to some sort of online workspace if the project is going to be kicked off, that could really help.

Thanks for the terrific collaboration here (and encouraging words), will keep you posted with any new info.  Feel free to contact me offline with any ideas as well.

Cheers

I'll have to find the pic or take a new one, but over my bikes i have a plaque that reads:
"Vision is the gift to see what others only Dream"

Right, I have met Rod Gibson today at the local bike show at Donnington. He is very sincere about wanting to do an article on the bike. As you guys have said he is looking for some words for the article from the view point of what the genuine faults and short comings are on the bike and what we have done to overcome them. I believe one of the forum members has agreed to do this from what he said? He has also agreed to come and see me to take pictures and ride if possible my Xz(s). We have provisionally said in May (when the weather is better here). The article would then appear in the autumn of this year.
I had quite a long chat with Rod and contrary to what you may think after reading the article he is genuine decent guy and bike fan. The "Lemon" feature has been running for about 2 years and despite all our rants about the XZ he has only ever had a complaint from owners of the Kawasaki Z750 twin. Again he agreed with them to review and ride the bike. They never turned up to give him the chance...... In this case Rod did know what he was talking about having worked for Kawasaki for some years. He says they will apologize and correct what was said in the XZ article if it incorrect after the review of the bike. The author of the feature "Lou Spokes" as  I suggested is not the guys real name. Rod would not tell me who he was only that he is a (was!!) well respected author in many bike magazines. He apparently got his information from the Yamaha dealers and magazine testers at the time.
So I guess this is it, the time to put the XZ / Vision where it should be as a good motorcycle that did have some flaws but was badly marketed at the time to a public that did not really want or was ready for it. Its your words guys and pictures and my bike in the feature. Better may sure I get it finished!!

Simcha, thanks for effort to get and keep this project viable.  Please post a few pictures of your bike, if possible.  Cheers.

Good work Simcha, I would never want to be the defense for someone who is "guilty as charged" such as the Kawi 750, but for the Vision I think we have a pretty good chance to refute the non-issues and address the real issues.  You can be certain he is going to give the XZ a good going over so I would suggest we chat about how to dial your old girl in to shape for the test ride.

Find out the potential rider weight so suspension can be properly set up when the time comes.  We still to need to chew on the 'address and refute' stuff. I am wondering if there is anyone else who has any Yamaha documentation on any of the early issues just in case something comes up.  I think my dealership only sold one or two and I only performed the carb airbox update and the starter clutch fix on the 82's.

Additionally, are there any other Yamaha mechanics around from the time period? Any fellows with race experience also who did tweaks to the Vision for competition?

CDNL

I think the title should be "How to Make Lemonade From a Lemon".  Of course I'd be glad to volunteer some pictures of my lemon yellow Vision too.  ;D

David

just running through the Xz pages on the net I came across this article. If any of you have read the magazine article I think we now know where he got his (mis)information from!

http://www.umgweb.com/member1/yvee1.htm

nice comprehensive research he did

ha

what a joke

The first story even made mention of the "six speed gearbox".  Wish I could find one of those.   ::)

H₂O

Good research.  With all the good stuff on the web, one has to realize that there is equally enough bad stuff.  These are meant to be entertaining "bike rags" and certainly not proper evaluations.  CMM just cleaned it up a bit to make it sound like a proper evaluation, but you have to understand British humour (no disrespect intended here to our fellow Brits) which capitalizes on tongue-in-cheek story telling  :P.  You cannot take this article as gospel, because it is not meant to be serious.

I think Tiger got the just of this (being a converted Brit himself a.k.a. Canadian) saying the fellow was being a bit cheeky!  ;D Grabbing a humourous (I've heard lots of these sorry real-life stories) allows a writer to take a bit of liberty and just rework it.

Thanks for the info,

As the Brits might say, "Compleat rubbish". I loved the part where the front sprocket was changed so as to help the alleged vibration issue.  These people must have lived in the heart of the acid rain capitol of the planet.

This is good news to see. Of course the magazine will be keen to print a well documented story on a bike, they are always looking for stories. I feel a collaborated document would be very easily completed by May. I've had a quick look and it is possible to have a wiki like structure on this forum using editable messages. If the admin of the board would like to take a look at http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=219341.msg1401076#msg1401076 (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=219341.msg1401076#msg1401076) and consider whether it is possible to setup an area on this forum to collaborate on a document would be a good start. If this isn't a possibility then other options are setting up a wiki specially for this article at somewhere like http://www.wikidot.com/ (http://www.wikidot.com/). There are plenty of free resources for collaborating on projects on the Internet.

In the name of continuity though I would suggest it is kept in the ridersofvision.net website if possible. Perhaps a new board should be created called "Articles" where documents are worked on for publishing in other bike magazines as well. Once an article goes to print/publish it is locked by admin so it is kept as a history of member based published articles. We have some members that are already privately trying to publish stories about their bikes. This would a good place for these things to be kept and used as a resource for magazine editors etc that want the real info on the XZ. Under the main http://ridersofvision.net/ home page we could have a media/press area with all the published articles publicly available, thus providing a good resource of information to help promote the bike. My 25cents worth :)

It appears that he wrote everything based on just a few stories by others from the UK.  I believe very few over the pond have the luxury of a garage to keep their bikes in. It appears the majority had to do with poor upkeep along the beginning life of their XZ550s.
I guess this might explain a bunch of issues they had.

No Jasonm we do have garages to keep them in! :D We are not that far backwards in time you know! The Xz does not have any more serious issues that most other bikes of its era. Certainly build quality and materials are on par with everything else built in the early 80s from Yamaha. Maybe just the wrong bike at the wrong time over here in the UK. And crap dealers who could not resolve the problems. But garages we have plenty! ;D ;D

Simcha, nice to know that.  I have learned that any bike or engine with a short production run ends up being poorly service by most dealers or shops. Just not much info around when problems happened way "back in the day".  Other than the '82 carb update here....there were no other major bulletins. ...I have them all.

The article is kind of inaccurate, but the flavour is close:

The Vision problems that bugged me the most:

1) The start oil seal with no spring to save $0.04, causing the starter to fill with oil and turn more slowly and devour the brushes.

2) The stator which fails every 25,000 km 'cause it runs full on all the time. Yamaha tried to solve this for the Venture, but did nothing for the Vision. The design was chosen to just last longer than the warranty - didn't leave a good taste.

Are you listening, Yamaha?

Quote from: GeorgeRYoung on February 14, 2008, 01:45:42 PM
The article is kind of inaccurate, but the flavour is close:

The Vision problems that bugged me the most:

1) The start oil seal with no spring to save $0.04, causing the starter to fill with oil and turn more slowly and devour the brushes.

2) The stator which fails every 25,000 km 'cause it runs full on all the time. Yamaha tried to solve this for the Venture, but did nothing for the Vision. The design was chosen to just last longer than the warranty - didn't leave a good taste.

FYI ; all internal stator systems in presently made 'cycles run full out. The regulator's job is to solve the electrical issues. But this causes heat in 2 places..R/R and stator. The Ventures rarely had stator failures after the cooling kit was done. The majority of failures after the cooling kit was due to corrosion on the connectors, running w/bad battery or simply overloaded(too many lights) system. After mid-'84 all Ventures had this kit from the factory.  Visions are not the only bikes of this design to have stator failures. Do some searches. All brands have this issue.

Are you listening, Yamaha?

LUCKY , DAVE TN . Hell of a pair of articles You guys are riding philosophers,great job  Brewski....

??? am i missing something?  ???

Huh?

:o

YJ

I hope you both figure it all out, I don't get it either.

so i read a lot of this thread, and am pretty  interested how this turned out, if they ever made a more realistic article?

Quote from: Lucky on January 27, 2008, 04:23:35 PM
Dear Mr. Gibson,



As i'm now your probably aware, your recent article in the "Lemons" section of Classic Motorcycle Mechanics Magazine, concerning the Yamaha XZ550 was grossly inaccurate.  The bike simply never had issues with cam failures, cam chain failures, small end bearings, or pistons. They did have issues with carburetion, starter clutches, & charging. These issues have been easily resolved by current & former enthusiasts, & thanks to the internet, we have an informal 'international team' working on the charging issues.  I'd like to mention the charging issues are no different than those experienced by other model bikes, and certainly do not diminish the bikes over all appeal.

----------------

Peter "Lucky" Byer

East Tennesee, USA

BRAVO!!!!!! "Worst bike ever made?"  I guess he never heard of the Yamaha TX750, Early Honda Vee-4s and Certain vintage Harleys.

Frank C.

just fyi, this thread is a few years old

I like the fact they are considered lemons! I wouldn't had got one originally if they weren't cos I couldn't, and still can't, afford any of the so called non lemon bikes. I'm keeping mine until they become vintage (40 years or old in NZ) so I can afford to ride it again and get the cheap registration fees. Hopefully I'll still be strong enough to hold the bike up by then. ;D

All fantastic responses and my wife walked by and asked why I was smiling looking at the computer.Tell them like it is boys.

oh boy. shouldnt even have replied in this thread haha.

Actually I started some correspondence with Rod Gibson and he welcomed a good article on the Vision regarding what present owners have done to improve the bike and continue to enjoy it. I actually called him up and talked to him.

Of course everyone should know that the "Lemon Article" was British tongue in cheek humour whereby they took a crack at any motorcycle they could identify for almost any reason.  The articles were always a combination of old wives tales and circumstantial evidence painted up to sound as credible as possible.  No need for anyone to get "their knickers in a knot."

Very sadly, Mr. Gibson passed away not long after and the magazine actually got so much flak for the "lemon articles" that they decided to drop the idea.  After a while you begin to insult all your customers since it is "Classic Mechanics" and you start to lose subscriptions so they decided to adopt a more positive approach.

Rob Gibson was a tremendous motorcycle enthusiast and had a great sense of humour, the motorcycle community experienced a great loss.  The sad truth of the matter is that our Visions will most likely still be around when we are not... so be careful what you call a lemon.