Riders Of Vision

General => TechTalk => Topic started by: George R. Young on November 25, 2014, 10:08:18 PM

Title: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: George R. Young on November 25, 2014, 10:08:18 PM
After all, it's a V-Twin too with the same questionable permanent magnet alternator:

http://web.ncf.ca/ag136/SV650/seriesRegulator.html
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: fret not on November 26, 2014, 01:37:50 AM
George, where does one find technical specs for this reg/rec unit?  Is it really the fabled "series" type that makes much less demand on the charging system?  I thought the SH series RR units are the silicone diode gate type.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: Blake on November 26, 2014, 12:13:54 PM
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=15266.msg139965#msg139965
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: George R. Young on November 26, 2014, 01:43:16 PM
Here's the Shindengen page:
http://www.shindengen.co.jp/product_e/electro/catalog.html
FH stands for mosFet while SH stands for Silicon controlled rectifier (SCR). For example, the SH785 is an SCR shunt regulator, while the SH775 is an SCR series regulator.

Here's one on eBay for about $40.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Used-Polaris-RZR-Razor-800-S-Regulator-Rectifier-4012941-Used-Parts-ATV-UTV-Sled-/300951833504?pt=Motors_ATV_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4612208ba0&vxp=mtr
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: supervision on November 26, 2014, 01:49:18 PM
George, how long have been running it? Can you feel less heat in the stator case?
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: George R. Young on November 26, 2014, 08:52:51 PM
So far, I've fired up the SV650 for a couple of minutes to check the voltage at idle and a couple of thousand RPM. In Ottawa, the riding season is pretty well over, so I won't have any more info until Spring.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: supervision on November 26, 2014, 09:55:02 PM
Thanks George, OK, we'll wait for your opinion.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: cvincer on November 27, 2014, 03:16:47 AM
G'day George R,    In the attachment to your first post, you said:-

                           "The little extension with the 3 yellow wires was sacrificed, chopped in half to splice ........"

                           Any chance of a photo for us non-electrical people ?
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: George R. Young on November 27, 2014, 11:17:32 AM
For some reason, the SV650S has a three inch extension in the wiring from the stator to the regulator. The regulator wiring is long enough to plug its connector directly into the stator connector.

Anyway, for the new SH775, I chopped this extension in half and soldered wires from the regulator to the male extension half, so it can plug directly into the stator connector. Covered splices with heat shrink tubing.


      R                                                                  S
      e                        3 yellow wires                            t
  O   g   -----------------> >----------------------> >----------------  a
  l   /   -----------------> >----------------------> >----------------  t
  d   R   -----------------> >----------------------> >----------------  o
      e                                                                  r
      c   
      t


                                        3 yellow
                                          wires
                                       X------------>
                                       X------------>
                                       X------------>





      R                                   3 yellow                       S
      e                                     wires                        t
  N   g   ------------------------------=-----------> >----------------  a
  e   /   ------------------------------=-----------> >----------------  t
  w   R   ------------------------------=-----------> >----------------  o
      e                                 ^                                r
      c                                 |
      t                              Splice   
         
         
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: cvincer on November 27, 2014, 06:45:17 PM

My bad ...... thought the talk about chopping referred to the projection on the regulator itself.  Thanks for taking the trouble to reply.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: George R. Young on November 27, 2014, 09:33:35 PM
Aha, here's a Vstrom reference
http://www.svrider.com/forum/showthread.php?t=111850&highlight=regulator+upgrade
and there's a video in it that shows how the SCRs chop the input to control the DC output.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: fret not on November 28, 2014, 03:22:25 AM
So, are the series type R/R units supposed to be better than the MOSFET type?  Do they really put less load on the charging system than the shunt type? :police:
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: fret not on November 28, 2014, 03:57:26 AM
I just got my answer from the wizard:
http://www.triumphrat.net/speed-triple-forum/104504-charging-system-diagnostics-rectifier-regulator-upgrade.html

Looks like the next big thing for reliability.  As much improvement as the MOSFET RR units are over the original RR units, the series type looks to be even better.  Just read the stuff on the link I put up.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: supervision on November 28, 2014, 10:15:27 AM
 I'm glad someone we know finally bought one! Props to George!! Here is a simple way to look at it: the SERIES R/R, regulate first rectify second, the advantage is the STATOR will be cooler because only the necessary A/C  current is being sent to the diodes to be rectified into DC voltage. The reason to do it is, your bike will be faster, and your stator should last longer!! The downside is the R/R probably hotter than the old style, and they might R/R might have a shorter life. POLARIS must not be too concerned or they wouldn't be using them.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: fret not on November 28, 2014, 01:29:49 PM
I went to the Polaris parts list and the RR unit is listed for $66.41   That is USD, and  new.  I will check with our local Polaris dealer to see if this is real.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: George R. Young on November 28, 2014, 06:44:57 PM
Quote from: supervision on November 28, 2014, 10:15:27 AM
. . . The downside is the R/R probably hotter than the old style, . . .
With a shunt-type regulator, the 20 Amp output of the alternator is divided, 10 A is delivered to the bike for practical stuff and 10A flows thru the diodes and regulator shunting devices (SCRs, FETs) to heat it up.

With a series regulator, the SCRs act as the diodes and only conduct when told to do so, delivering 10 A to the bike. Both the stator and the regulator should run cooler as there's only 10A flowing through each.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: supervision on November 28, 2014, 08:14:15 PM
Thanks George, I hope more bikes start coming stock like this!   My wife bought me a  2015 YAMAHA FZ-07,  serial # 00062, which is also my age!  The bike came stock with one of those super light, high tech batteries, which has 13.25 resting voltage. 
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: fret not on November 28, 2014, 08:22:31 PM
Yes, more words from the Wizard, that the series run cooler than the original SCR RR units.  He said that on his bike he can touch the RR unitafter a run and it is hot but not hot enough to burn your skin.  They do dissipate heat, that's why they have cooling fins. 

MOSFET RR units are an improvement over the original SCR RR units, and the series are another step forward.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: George R. Young on November 29, 2014, 09:18:20 AM
The SH775 has 3 AC input leads and 2 DC output leads and this is the way the Suzuki SV650S is organized.

The Vision regulator has 3 AC input leads and 3 leads on the DC side, red, brown and GND (probably black). Red is positive, GND is negative and the brown lead is a voltage sense lead. This sensing is done internally in the SH775.

If you were to use a SH775 on a Vision the brown lead should be left open at the regulator end. So on the output side, it would be SH775 Positive (terminal nearest the other connector) to Vision Red, SSH775 Negative (terminal farthest from the other connector) to Vision GND.

If this technology had been available in 2003 I might still be a Visionary. But it got awful tiresome getting marooned by the side of the road far away from home.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: fret not on November 29, 2014, 11:57:46 PM
"If this technology had been available in 2003 I might still be a Visionary."

There is still time George. ;)
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: turbosteve84 on May 13, 2016, 10:33:23 PM
Wow! I think George might have nailed it. I'll pass this along to my electrics guy. Last time I tried to do electric work myself I took out half the Northeast US grid (yeah, that was me. Sorry).

For the record, the connections were all in the right place before the battery was installed, so no chance of the TCI being fried. The Triumph adapter I was referring to is the T2500676 unit.

Below, for your amusement, is a photo of the wiring as it stands now. Tomorrow's job is for me to make it all nice and tidy before my electrics guy returns next week to connect the Motogadget.

Steve
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: pinholenz on May 15, 2016, 03:57:57 AM
My MOSFET is a solid performer. I have installed a digital voltmeter to keep an eye on things as I ride. Its at a rock steady 14V under most conditions. However, I have got a used Polaris unit from a wrecker and will install that over the winter. Looking forward to all that extra horsepower/ extra mpg and stator burnout being a thing of the past. (Still looking for that immaculate barn find with a failed charging system!)

Meantime thanks to George. - Leave the brown lead flapping in the wind because the SH775 senses voltage internally. Thanks for the advice.
Title: Re: Series regulator install on SV650S
Post by: Walt_M. on May 15, 2016, 09:15:02 AM
Be on the lookout for flying pigs.If modern technology can make the Vision stators last...