Riders Of Vision

Where to begin... I am not new to bikes, or Yamaha's for that matter. What I am very new to is this bike, it perplexes me to see a v-twin 550cc like this... but none-the-less I am willing to try it... once I get it working of course. This was actually a free bike... so I took what I got in stride.

This is an 82 as far as I can tell...
It looks like it was birthed in a salt bath... rust and pitting everywhere.
the paint really isnt all that bad, it actually has a nice dark gray color mixed with the rust.
The good (as far as I can tell)
-It cranks when it has power **yay the engine is not seized**
-The lights work
-It has an ignition key
-It has tires that hold air *For now*
-The rear brake works
-Its a great project!
The Bad (again as far as I can tell)
-The master cylinder (F-brake) is locked up *one on order already*
-There is no key for the gas cap
-There is no key for the seat release (same key right??)
-The fuel tank is very very very rotted... did i mention very?
-I cant get the seat off! (the key issue remember?)
-I cant get the fuel tank off! (again with that damned key)
-I cant tell what else is wrong with it because parts wont come off yet!!
The okay but not so great
-Frame has rust
-exhaust has rust
-engine has white "pitting" on it...
-wheels have rust
-no battery *yet*


I am grinning ear to ear with this bike... I cant wait to hear this thing run. I have a set of priorities first, and of course you may interject if you think they are not in the right order...
-Get engine running
-Check all other fluids, etc.
-Check all wiring
-Fuel tank-> either fix or replace all together... gas cap too
-Brakes (entire system)
-Tires

Hi GiftVision and welcome to ROV.  Your story is similar to mine and many of the other members here.  With a lot of elbow grease, persistance and pain..well maybe not so much pain...you'll get her running and she will serve you well.
The good news is that you can get it to crank and run.  Thats a big plus.

You have kind of joined at a slow part of the year for us.  Most of us check in quite regularly but the conversations tend to pick up quite a bit in the warmer months.  We are a pretty close family and we have a few "groups" based on where we all live.  Several times of the year many of us get together to swap stories and ride together.

So, now that we know a little about your bike, tell us a little about yourself.  Mainly, where are you located.  There may be a Visionary near you who can lend a hand...or some parts...and go for  a ride with you.

welcome to the ROV family!

David
(Knoxville, TN)

Thanks yellow: however I do feel inclined to correct something that may be misread... it cranks but not runs... Maybe that's what you meant but I just want to make sure that is set as a baseline for this little terror I took on.

I am in New Braunfels Texas, 45mins south of Austin, 20 mins north of San Antonio on Interstate 35.

I am a Firefighter by trade, a Commercially rated pilot for fun, and an engineer student. I love machines, especially the ones that move quickly with me along for the ride.

I love to take things apart, and make new versions of them, and that is why i have taken on this project.

In case no one has seen my other post... I do need a fuel tank either fixed or replaced, so if anyone knows someone who has/does any of the latter please let me know.  ** very limited budget **

My daily rider is a 1985 Goldwing 1200 Aspencade, a mostly finished project bike.

 :) Welcome to your new and extended family...the best place a Vision can bring its new owner  :D :D 8)

You will find just about everthing you need...help, advice, somewere to rant, part(s), etc...to get you and your Vision up-and-running.

First things first...There is NO such thing as a FREE Vision :o believe me/us... ;)

Contact "Lucky" here on the ROV...He has a great CD/DVD for sale, that contains: Part's/workshop manuals, helpfull hints 'n tips, etc, etc, an absolute "must have" if your going to wrench this baby back to life ;)

Do a search in the archives to help you find out more about specific "Fixes"... ;)

Ask as many questions as you like...there will always be someone here to help you out... 8)

Time, effort, TLC and some $$$ will get you a really fun ride...A bike that will have people asking you..

..."What the hells that"!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D... ;)

                       

rusted wheels? naw... they're alloy so you can cross that off your list...

....see how easy this is going to be ;)

don't worry about the tank, by the time you're ready.. I'll have a beaut that will match your other pits... it's solid, just not what you'd call pretty and should fit your budget

Hi Gift,  The wheels can be cleaned up with  some 600 wet of dry sand paper , followed by some 1000 or 1200. Then polish them up with some Mother's . The engine  cases can use the same treatment ,but first use paint stripper to get the clear coat off. Polish them with the mother's used with synthetic sheep's wool pad,  turned by an electric drill motor. This is fairly low buck stuff and really makes the bike shine .By the way , I don't apply any clear to the cases (there's none on the wheels)  If I work that hard to get it off, I certainly don't want any back on.
The keys are all the same , UNLESS, the locks have been changed. On solution is to load the bike up and take it to a qualified locksmith, he can get them open and make keys too.

Take the seat hinge pins out on the right side after you pull the plastic trim peice that covers them. 2 ea 10mm hex head.
Hacksaw the side of the frame tab that the seat locks into, pry the tab apart enough to get the seat lock assembly free. Two bolts to the seat pan, too.
Take the seat lock to a locksmith that gives a shit about old projects and they will be able to look up the blank and the tumbler spacing on their web tools. The blank uses 4 tumblers for a Vision and 7 for a Japanese car, Nissan I recall.

Any way, the key that opens the seat lock will operate the ignition and the gas cap uses just two of the tumblers.

Have fun, welcome to Riders of Vision.

$0.02
;)
Coil

 :) A couple of pointers for you...

RE:The Bad-The master cylinder (F-brake) is locked up *one on order already*

After laying around, the front brake caliper piston will be seized in and any brake fluid left in the system will have turned to a jelly type mess. Remove the brake caliper, strip, clean and rebuild with a caliper rebuild kit from your local Yamaha st dealer... 8)

The oxidization on the aluminum parts...engine, wheels, etc...is a fairly straight forward elbow grease job.

As long as the rust on the frame is surface rust, a rub down with scotch brite or a similar product will help get rid of it...and then touch up paint.

A new battery from WalMart will set you back about $35.00 but a good investment for your Vision long term... ;)

Once you have the gas tank removed the carbs will need to be removed, stripped, completely cleaned and rebuilt...and an in line gas filter installed between the petcock and carbs.

Take a look in Tigers parts list... in the swap shop....... ;)

Try and put some pictures of your Vision up...it will give us all an idea of the project in hand ;)

                   

I don't know if you read my earlier post about the gas cap lock but, don't bother taking the seat lock to a locksmith. It doesn't use as many tumblers as the ignition lock so a key that works the seat lock or gas cap won't work in the ignition. Take the ignition lock to the locksmith and he will fix you up.

Hmm interesting part on the key... I will have to spray some WD-40 in the cylinders to see if that's all that is keeping the key from actually going in. I hope you guys know what you are talking about ;).

Someone will have to show me how to post a picture on here, in plain English... and I will put up the "Before" pictures.

Night Vision: There is actually rust on the wheels LOL, I figured they were aluminum/mag wheels but for some reason there is actual rust in there.

Tiger: I really cant afford to get all these rebuild kits yet... I will just have to see how I fare on my own. I am saving up money for a 2007 BMW R1100RT.

Coil: If I cant get the keys in tonight when I get home... I will definitely use that method. I was hoping someone had to break into their seat somewhere before. I have a lock pick set... but it doesn't want to open the gas cap or the seat lock... But I got the ignition **go figure**


** I just cant shake the feeling that the locks are different... I really cant get that ignition key into the gas cap or seat lock... the grooves on the key don't even appear to line up (the lateral grooves, not the pin grooves), guess we will wait to see!**


THANKS ALL FOR YOUR WELCOME ADVICE AND HELP

I have two separate keys for my vision, one fits the ignition, one fits the gas/seat lock.  Might have to take the whole bike into the key shop?  I've done that before...

Thanks Blimp, that is the post I have been looking for. I was pretty sure that there needed to be 2 sets of keys for this thing, but I will have to call the locksmith.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3508/3270236966_2c5fbc7657.jpg?v=0)

Looks about like mine did...maybe even a little better.  LOTS of potential.

David

Gift,
Welcome!
My 83 uses the same key for everything. Which reminds me, when I bought it, the previous owner only gave me one key. I suppose before my luck runs out, I should get another made!
JDA

Don't damage the bike, You may have a mobile locksmith in your area.  From experience they are no dearer than the shops and better at car locks than the ones with shops.

It's quite conceivable that any of the lockable parts could have been switched at some point. So there is no knowing whether you wll end up needing 1, 2, or 3 keys.  There are at least two different key styles for visions, and they won't fit into each other's slots. 

Getting blanks can be an issue here.  The larger key I got no problem at a auto parts w/house.  I haven't found a blank for the smaller style yet.  It might be easier where you come from.

If your locks all use the same key style (though it sounds like not), then they can be re-pinned to all fit the same key. 

Quote from: GiftVision on February 10, 2009, 11:07:16 AM
Tiger: I really cant afford to get all these rebuild kits yet...

The brake rebuild kit would be my choice...the carbs can, in most cases, be stripped, cleaned and rebuilt using the original parts...if your careful :o  ;)

My "V" has two keys...one for the gas cap & one for the ignition/seat lock.

Can you put some more pictures up...left/right side, front/back, etc.....

                         

I see you are near San Antonio, I've always had good luck with Cothron's as a locksmith, and they have a mobile unit in San Antone:

http://www.cothrons.com/location.php

Good luck

Im actually not close enough to that locksmith Blimp..

I will post more pictures when my upload limit for the month resets.

Yeah guys its two totally different types of keys from the ignition to the seat... i cant really see the slotting on the gas cap cylinder. I hope its not 3 keys. I will just have to attempt to rebuild the carbs with all original parts... thats going to be a great project.

I got the bolt off of the back of the tank (i was able to lift the seat enough to fit my ratchet in there) but now I cant really figure out how to get the damned thing off

If its anything like my OLD honda... the back bolt is the only bolt... and there are "L" hooks that are holding it on the front??? If so how far back do I need to slide the tank to get it off?? is there anything else I need to remove to get this to come off those hook points (not entirely off the bike just so that I can get it off when I remove the fuel crap)


BTW: I am surprised that noone has asked me what the wires are at the battery box yet.
from looking at pictures... as far as i can tell ... this thing has all its original parts with exception of the mirrors. I have no idea where the heck those went. I am duly impressed that its stayed together all these years.

tank needs to slide back about an inch to clear the ears on the inside of the tank... after the rear of tank is lifted about a 1/2"

I figured those "three wires" were part of your security system  ???

Quote from: Night Vision on February 11, 2009, 08:57:26 PM
tank needs to slide back about an inch to clear the ears on the inside of the tank... after the rear of tank is lifted about a 1/2"

... and after you disconnect the gas and vacuum lines from the petcock ;)

             

Quote from: Walt_M. on February 10, 2009, 10:11:43 AM
I don't know if you read my earlier post about the gas cap lock but, don't bother taking the seat lock to a locksmith. It doesn't use as many tumblers as the ignition lock so a key that works the seat lock or gas cap won't work in the ignition. Take the ignition lock to the locksmith and he will fix you up.

A key made for the Gas Cap on an 83 will not operate the seat lock or the ignition switch. I have an ignition key that was made for an 83 seat lock.
Perhaps the 1982 setup is as Walt states.
The 83 seat lock makes a complete ignition key, four tumblers.

$0.02
;)
Coil

Quote from: Night Vision on February 11, 2009, 08:57:26 PM
I figured those "three wires" were part of your security system  ???

Haha, not quite, but it would be hard to steal the bike with these wires in place as they are...

I ran jumper cables from my Goldwings battery to those cables to see if the electronics on the bike worked... the Visions battery was dry as a bone, and dead. I had to see if the Vision would crank or not...

Finally got the seat released... I just broke the pins with a screwdriver... no key needed now.

I have the tank off and its BAD very very BAD. there is a 1/4 to 1/2 inch wide line of completely rusted through tank on the inside near the frame. To me it looks beyond fixing. Beyond that I still cant get the gas cap off.

The carbs look great... I am very tempted to just hook a gas line up to them and see if it runs. First I will have to check the spark though... I have a feeling the plugs are shot.

Now to ponder a few things...

Also...
what else do I need to check on this thing before I attempt to just put gas in and try to start it???

I want to make sure this 550 runs before I put even a second into making it look good.

Not worried about brakes or paint or tires.... just things that make visions go vroom.

Starter turns the engine over very solidly... no noises at all
Butterfly valves in throttle open fully, cant see the choke valves operate (cant see them?)
Will put fuel filter in line... I promise.
Wonder if the coils are good?
Spark plugs??
change oil and filter

I just know I am missing something..

With air cleaner cover off, pour a small amount of gas down each carb throat, open throttle slightly, and crank.  It should fire and run for a few seconds.

Gift , the chokes are a "mixture enriching device"  not a butterfly . They connect the gas tank straight to the engine , sort of.  Visions are not at all hard on plugs , so they will do for now. You might remove the plug caps and cut off the last 3/8 of an inch of the plug wire and them wind them back on. There usually deterorated  there. Other than that do as Q suggested squirt a little gas in there (I use an old plastic bottle )  and give it a whirl.

Change the spark plugs. Seriously, i've had/seen enough bizzaro problems with plugs being the reason.

 :) Once you have established that your "V" has spark...(BTW, its way easier checking/changing spark plugs, especially the front one, with the gas tank removed)...hook up a pony tank to the gas line and fire her up. Then you can decide which step to take next....... 8)

                     

Well I will have a day to the V on the 24th of this month...

With the tank off I can see that most of my work is going to be cosmetic now... I was happy to see that a "mud dobber" or mud wasp had made a nest inside the inlet of the airbox... "why are you happy to see that???" well that means to me that all the spiders, webs, birds and all other creatures were completely blocked off from getting into the carbs **no air filter in there when I opened it**

I have never seen cleaner carbs on a bike that has just sat... So I have a feeling that the cleaning/refurbish of the carbs will go easier than previously thought.

I really want to hear a rumble out of her... badly... that will motivate me to get the rest done for sure.

YJ: You said that you think yours might have looked worse, somehow I doubt it LOL. I saw the pictures of when it was black... it looked good then and at least it had mirrors  ;)

Thanks for that QBS, thats a hell of alot easier that what I was going to do, lets just leave it at that...

Also Rick G thanks for clearing that up, I was worried not seeing some sort of butterfly down there when I actuated the choke...

Well like I said, when my usage for the month resets, I will upload more pictures and post them here... I have lots of before pictures... and now a few "during" pictures... This will be fun.

As already suggested put a saddle tank of some sort on and be prepared to pour a small amount of gas in directly in the carbs to see it it will run-albut for only a second or two.  When my vision sat for for about nine years-after I fixed the oil soaked starter motor-seeing if it would run was the first item. In spite of how the carbs may look I would be very surprized however that you will not need to take em off (but see if it runs first on direct gas-be careful).

Good luck!   

The chances of not having to take the carbs apart and cleaning them are probably 1 in 10,000. More likely not even that good. The chances some of the stuff that used to be gasoline that rusted your tank out got in the carbs are better than 50-50 and you will probably find it will take at least 3 tries before you finally get them clean enough to run perfectly. Don't give up but don't expect too much.

The fact that the  carbs appear shiny clean , doesn't mean much, The vision needs carbs that are surgically clean. They will have to be dipped. Having said that they will probably be good enough to start it and hear it run.
Inane, my point is, that if your just trying to see if the thing will do anything there's no point in taking the time and trouble to dig the plugs out (its not an RD350)  Plenty of time to do all the things needed , once you know it runs.
When I went to look at my first vision , I jumped it from the PO's pickup and popped the tank and air box cover off and squirted a 1/2 oz of gas in each carb. No pony tank, no gas tank. It was 28 deg. in that garage and  I just wanted proof that it wasn't stuck or blown up. It started up fairly easily and ran long enough  for me to pay the man.

well I did it and I got a sputter out of her, a few backfires (out of the carbs and the tail). That is encouraging... no 1-2 second run though. Just crank crank crank puf puf puf puf crank crank crank... etc. You get the Idea

I know I will need new rubber pieces where the carbs go to the cylinder inlet... does that come with the "carb rebuild kits" or is that a separate part??

The intake manifolds (the heavy rubber boots) are not in the carb rebuild kits.  Which may or may not be available for around 90 dollars a piece (couldn't find them for XZ550RJ on bike bandit, and only the rear for XZ550RK...)

Brian

Quote from: GiftVision on February 20, 2009, 04:31:13 PM
I know I will need new rubber pieces where the carbs go to the cylinder inlet...

These manifold rubbers can be cleaned up and "painted" with liquid electrical tape...available at most good auto store's. This, generally, does the trick for a lot less $$$ ;)

                         

the biggest deterant to starting a Vision with carb problems is a weak battery (or oil filled starter). if you need to, junp off a NON running car...