I just finished some delayed winter work on our 83.I had some valve cover leaks and checked the intake & exhaust valves while I had it apart--not one was correct, they all had less clearance than required.Most needed shims two sizes smaller. I bought this bike when it had aprox. 20 thousand miles on it & didn't bother to check the valves as the history showed they had been checked at 15. It now has 40 thousand miles on it and I am going to monitor it for further movement more often.
Cheers Ken S.
Interesting, it has been 4K mi and several years since I did mine last and I think I changed 4 shims. You might have to re-synch your carbs, I did. Had you noticed any 'popping' from the exhaust when decelerating? I had not noticed anything unusual about valvetrain problems except, I think Bruce dropped a valve a week or so ago.
I have told others what you have seen. Valves tightening up. This can cause burned valves. I think I had 5 or 6 tight on my '82. Corrected that. My '83 only had one or 2 loose 10k ago. Corrected also. "Better loose than tight."
too loose leads to excessive noise and reduced performance. if loose the valve is not opening all the way per specs so less pumping of fuel/air mixture is taking place. also, the "quieting" ramps on the flanks of the cams are not being used to their max.
always be aware of the ambient temps and follow factory recs for clearance at a particular temp.
usually it means the valves have pounded the seats deeper into the head, or the seats are worn down
Mine are always in spec. but If you don't have them perfect then...Which you you rather have? a little loose with a tick once in a while or too tight ...burn a valve, loose compression and replace the valves. Old BMW's follow the loose rule. Which also allows more contact time with the seat to cool the valve...especially the exhaust.
i didn't know that old bmw's had a problem with burning valves as long as the lash was set to spec. in fact, i'll bet that they don't have a problem here. these engines are reputed to live forever! they were built to an old recipie: conservative specs, quality materials, quality workmanship.
i would allow that the odd 1/2 thousandth more open will do no harm, but i will stand by my earlier assertion that it will lower performance and increase noise. i'll also say that delibertately increased clearance will cause valve train components to wear out more quickly not more slowly due to impact loadings not designed into the components. as a general rule the engineers that design and specify this stuff know their business and do a very good job. the problems come in when the beancounters nix a design element as too costly and the further compromises enter in. there are some stellar examples of this thinking in the vision-charging system, starter shaft seals, starter clutch fastener system, carbs(maybe). and then you have the good ideas that go wrong carbs(probably), tank styling(rust pockets anyone?)
Rick,
Don't rush out and put any money on the "old BMW's" not having any valve problems, man they've got no shortage of valve woes! I have an 84 R100rs and the valves gap on the exhaust are continually tigthtening up. Their are all kinds of fixes different seat material (Stellite) different grinds (three angle). This problem really reared its head with the change from leaded fuel to unleaded. With exhaust valves its has a lot to do with heat transfer.
Cheers Ken S.
i agree. i thought about and should have said pre-unleaded fuel. the lead was a great lubricator. also a really good poison.
I just had my valves done this year. They have never been ajusted. They were also tight. Three in the front cylinder and one in the rear.
I sent it to a dealer here because I didn't have the valve tool.
Do you guys have the Yamaha tool? Do you need it?
I hear that it is a real pain in the butt to do the valves on the V, is it?
JV
Don't believe all the propaganda on Beemers. The valves on a V are not a 15 min job and you do need the tool.
In my experience, one only needs the tool if any of the shims need to be swapped out. The tool is not necessary simply to check the clearances.
Of course, if you're going to open things up that far, and discover that you'll need to swap one (or more) of the shims, you'll be disappointed that you have to order, and wait for, the tool.
I bought one a year ago via my local Yamaha dealer. They were still available then. Don't know about now...
Greg
I'll be doing the valves on mine sometime soon, anyone tell me what the clearance is?
My little mistrusty steed is an 82 XZ550R.
All the valve clearances I have done before only require a spanner and a screwdriver (once the rocker covers are off).
Is that the deal with these?
The clearances are set using shims. You will need the special tool to change the shims if you need to adjust. It fits on the hex on the cam and pushes the shim bucket down so you can get the shim out. You will need a manual to figure the shims you will need. The tool may still be available from Yamaha.
I discovered that the chart in my Yamaha manual was incorrect. I produced an Excel spreadsheet with corrected values for my own use, and have placed a copy in my Mac.com file sharing area:
http://homepage.mac.com/gbranche/FileSharing.html
Download the "XZ550ValveShimChart.XLS" file.
Greg
I was able to make a valve shim tool from the picture in the manual, also made a valve spring tool that worked really well
Well at least the Vision is much easier to adjust than any other shim and bucket type valve system that I've seen. Usually you have to remove the cams!
Thanks Greg for the nice charts!
Travis, any chance of more details or pics of your homemade tools??
I believe the valve clearance chart in the Haynes manual is correct. I may check Greg's chart to my Haynes and Yamaha manuals just to be sure. Thanks for doing the spreadsheet work for us Greg!
As for easy valve adjustment, a while back someone posted that the next time they did it they would seriously consider pulling the engine for easier access.
Check Lucky's site for instructions on making a valve shim tool. He's got a good plan for using a 22mm 6 point wrench and a grinder to make one. Address is //www.xz550.com/art.html look for the diagram in the third row from the top, second picture from the left. Click on it and it enlarges to full size. Drawings are not to exact scale but the critical measurements are there.
I think the tool is available from Yamaha again. It was discontinued for a time but there was another post in the forum last fall about it. Guess it's time to go back and refresh my memory.
H2o
QuoteDrawings are not to exact scale but the critical measurements are there
you don't like my artwork Drippy? lol ;)
just playin..
Sorry Lucky - the artwork is fantastic! You should see the poor job I do with that sort of thing :D Guess I could have meen more diplomatic about how I said it. Just being the typical lawyer for a minute. ::)
I just had a look at the cutaway picture from lucky's site (excellent site, thanks Lucky)
now I see how difficult the valve clearance will be to adjust.
needless to say i will not be checking the valves this weekend.
I think my time can be much better used elsewhere on the bike.
Thanks guys.
Can anyone tell me what the thickness of a 200 numbered pad is. Is it 2mm? I think I'll be making my own shims up.
Be careful making your own shims. My understanding is that they are treated/hardend metal. Using standard steels will cause increased wear, possible damage to the cam lobes, along with all the other problems this brings. Good luck.
Mark
They are also 'close tolerance fit' in the buckets. There have been tales of old 900 Kawasakis spitting the shims through the cam covers at high revs. Be forewarned before you try a barnyard approach.
QuoteI believe the valve clearance chart in the Haynes manual is correct. ?I may check Greg's chart to my Haynes and Yamaha manuals just to be sure. ?Thanks for doing the spreadsheet work for us Greg!
When I produced the spreadsheet, I didn't have access to the Haynes manual. I was looking at the charts in the Yamaha XZ550RK manual, and the baselines didn't match what the text of the manual was saying. That's why I did the spreadsheet.
Once I get confirmation that the numbers in the spreadsheet are correct from one of you smarter-than-I guys, I'll produce a PDF version, for those folks that don't have access to Excel.
Greg
Anybody priced that tool?? I assume it's more than a 22mm wrench?
The way I see it is that the text is wrong and the chart is right. Text says if the clearance is 0.32 and the installed is 250, install a 270. This would give a clearance of 0.12, specs are 0.16-0.20. The chart says to use a 265 which would be correct, would give a clearance of 0.17, in tolerance.
Here's my rationale:
The text of the Yamaha service manual states that the intake valve clearance should be 0.11~0.15mm, and the exhaust valve clearance should be 0.16~0.20mm (page 2-4, XZ 550 RK Service Manual, LIT-11616-XZ-55). The charts on page 2-7 state that the intake clearance should be 0.16~0.20mm, and the exhaust clearance should be 0.21~0.25mm. The charts are structured with those values as the baselines. Obviously, either the text on page 2-4 is incorrect, or the charts on page 2-7 are incorrect.
The example provided on page 2-6 provides a clue (to me) as to which values are correct. The example says that the intake valve (emphasis mine) installed pad is a #250, and that the measured clearance is 0.32mm. Therefore the new pad should be a #270. If I use the published chart, it tells me that the proper replacement shim is a #265. Let's do the math. The difference between a #270 and a #250 is 0.20mm. Reducing the measured clearance of 0.32mm by 0.20mm leaves a clearance of 0.12mm, which is within the stated 0.11~0.15mm allowance for the intake valve. If I used a #265 shim, the final clearance would be 0.32 - (265-250) = 0.17mm which is outside the allowable range.
So, I chose to believe the values embedded in the text of the service manual, rather than the chart. I assumed that the chart was copied and pasted in from some other service manual, and the editor of the service manual failed to notice the slight differences in measurements. That's why I produced my own, corrected, chart.
I'll be the first to admit that my logic may be wrong. If I can get confirmation as to the actual, correct, valve clearance specifications, I can rebuild the chart accordingly. (That's why I built it in a spreadsheet - let the computer do the recalculations automatically.) I have noted, however, that the charts in the Haynes manual match the ones that I produced, including the intake and exhaust clearance specs.
Greg
Camtool Part Number: 35-3470
Brand: K&L
Name: VALVE SHIM TOOL:YAM XZ550
http://www.klsupply.com to find a dealer
Quote from: silicon_toad2000 on May 27, 2004, 01:51:23 AM
Can anyone tell me what the thickness of a 200 numbered pad is. Is it 2mm? I think I'll be making my own shims up.
I would advise you to abandon the idea of making your own shims, unless you have access to precision machine tools and the proper alloy to make them from. You also will have to properly heat treat them. The chance for failure is too high to risk, IMHO. The Vision may be old, but it's still pretty high tech - beware of shade tree fixes to something as finely engineered as a motorcycle valve train. 'Course, if you have the equipment and the capability to do the job, go for it - I bet you'll be the first to get away with it! ;D Absolutely no offense intended.
Anyone wanting to try and make a valve shim tool from lucky's site, I suggest looking for a old toolkit from a enduro bike. most have a short handle 6 point axle nut wrench. It is much closer to the size you need and not near as hard a metal to work with. Kevin C. :)
yeah, i gave up on the idea of making my own shims.
wow this is an old post, it took me a while to remeber making those comments.
valves arent very high on my priority list st the moment.