I didn't want to hijack XSwheels bridgestone thread with a bunch of questions and answers taking away from his question.
thread here: http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=11886.0
Anyway, I have been seeing all the advertising about putting nitrogen in your tires and how much better it is supposed to be but I see a few flaws in that theory.
First, air is about 78% nitrogen, the rest is oxygen and CO2..and a few others. So, why is nitrogen so much better. Yes, the space shuttle and 747's use it as well as race cars, but why my car or motorcycle?
Second, I just bought some new skins for my car and the dealer wanted $4.00 per tire to use nitrogen (which would also "extend" the warranty. BS?? Well, if I wanted nitrogen, that meant that whenever I top off my tires, I'd have to go to smeone who could put nitrogen in them instead of air and I couldn't use my compressor.
OK, so, I have new tires on my car or MC and I'm going to use nitrogen, but isn't the "dead space" or the space that occupies air in teh tire already "air"? So, is the stealer going to flush that air out then add "100% pure nitrogen", or am I just going to end up with about 78% nitrogen like I would have in the first place?
I just don't see the benefit. Sounds like witchcraft to me.
David
Sounds like 100% bull shit. Your tire dealer is looking to add just a hair less than $16.00 profit to the transaction. The latest and greatest consumer scam.
Hmm. I dont know bout that.. they use nitrogen in shocks and racing tires, because it doesnt have the tendency to heat up as much as air, AND it doesnt out-gas through the sidewalls, which, air does. I think its based on solid science from what Ive read from people and places that have nothing to gain by saying it.
Or, maybe it IS voodoo.. racers spend a lot of money figuring stuff like that out,,but we dont ride/drive like they do. So the Idea that they "test" things for regularly driven cars/bikes, is a bit like voodoo, too.
My feelings are, for consumer tires, when they are put on the rim, there is a couple cubic feet of deadspace which contains plain ol air. So, in order to really give you 100% nitrogen, there has to be some way for them to purge out the air. Otherwise, you still have less than 100% "pure" nitrogen. Besides, I don't drive my car 200+ MPH.
Also, isn't nitrogen less dense than air? So it would be more inclined to diffuse through the sidewalls and rubber?
And, just because someone puts something on or in a race car, does that mean you should trust it? Does Viagra make my car corner harder? Drive straighter?
David
or you could put helium in the tire for less rolling resistance, save fuel, lol :)
Im just telling you what I read.. I believe thats called regurgitation, it wasnt a seminal thought.
Nitrigen is used in aviation tires because it's dry. In aviation corrosion is a huge concern. Compressed air has a certain amount of moisture which is corrosive to the rims they use, usually aluminum or magnesium. It also may be more stable to temperature fluctuation but I'm not sure about that. I think I'd agree with funk regarding permeating through a rubber tire slower than "air". Maybe because nitrogen is a larger (albeit lighter) molecule than O2?
Nitrogen filled tires run more temperature stable and it is drier than standard compressed air. They also hold pressure over time better. All true. However, it is not really worth it if you have to pay extra to have them filled with it. It is a "new" profit center for tire dealers. I had new tires put on mom's car last year. (Yokohama Avid TRZs) They filled them with nitrogen @ no extra charge. The tires are still right at their suggested PSI, 8 months later - through some big temperature fluctuations.
However, the 10 ply (load range E) tires (also Yokohamas but these are Geolandars) on my F250 also hold pressure quite well. I put 80PSI in them last fall when I put the camper on the truck and they are still @ 80. Those have never had pure nitrogen in them. The Michelins I used to have on it also held pressure quite well. So, based on my experience, with heavy duty tires - like those on 3/4 or 1 ton pickups - filling them with nitrogen serves no purpose beyond lining the dealer's pockets.
H2O
I dont think its worth paying for, either, even if everything they say is true!! But for free,, I would probably do that.
I had to laugh the otehr day when I passed a Shell station that was advertising "Nitrogenated" gasoline with "100% Nitrogen added for extra performance". Oh, c'mon now. Whats all this crap about nitrogen?
Nitrous maybe but.... ugh.
David
HAHAHAHA Marketing!! AND with NEW nitrogenated lemon scent!!!! Its been "simonized" with nitrogen. Woooo hoooo.. I cant wait to get some nitrogen for myself.. sounds special, like something that isnt everywhere in the world,, almost. LOL...
Synthetic oil causes leaks because its a smaller molecule and also is incompatible with dino oil.
Also, dyna beads totally work.
QuoteI had to laugh the otehr day when I passed a Shell station that was advertising "Nitrogenated" gasoline with "100% Nitrogen added for extra performance".
Well, it's true in a sense. They used nitrogen based fertilizer to grow the corn that they made into alcohol that they added to what they are calling gasoline.
I worked in R&D when our company was developing gas mixing valves for Calor Permea.
They used compressed air through membrane tubes, Nitrogen is known as a slow gas and at a certain pressure and flow Oxygen and CO2 would permeate through the tube side walls and nitrogen would go straight through. I think this is why it is used in tyres and why it doesn't drop in pressure, I think the heat thing is true and its also an inert gas so it will not degrade rubber like oxygen.
yah, but it is the outside of the tire that degrades. If only they could design a tube filled with nitrogen to go around the tire and protect it. I'm sensing a slipper slope to nowhere here.
One detail that will determine my choice... I have an air compressor, in fact, 2, but I dont happen to have a nitrogen compressor...
Quote from: funkamongus on May 02, 2010, 08:26:43 PM
One detail that will determine my choice... I have an air compressor, in fact, 2, but I dont happen to have a nitrogen compressor...
Yeah, thats one of my points. Would I have to go to the tire shop to top off my tires every time the pressure gets a little low?
You can get nitrogenated blood too. Just dive too deep and come up too quick. Don't think its a good thing though. :o
David
Right, the bends..
Pretty Simple this Nitrogen argument , first off nitrogen is an inert gas and does not contribute to combustion, where as air has oxygen which contributes to combustion. Second nitrogen runs cooler than air which leads to increased tire life.
This is a factor mostly in Aircraft tires, if for instance we are at a location with no nitrogen we can obtain special one off permission to use air.
If I were a constant long distance rider ie Ironbut rider I would be using nitrogen, at the present time the only nitrogen charge on the Vision is the 200 psi. in the Fox shock.
Cheers Ken S.
Oooh nice, you tightened up your rear!! HAHAHAHA
Man, I gotta tell you, Ive said so many things to guys on this site I would never have thought.. Remember that REALLY nice vision package that was getting sold? I just had to say. "Hey, nice package, dude.." Just feels and sounds wrong,, thats all...
My vote is for Fact !
;) Ken S.
Yeah, Im voting "fact", too...However, I still wont use it, strictly because I dont have any I can use for free... Maybe in the future as I have a dirt bike I need a nitro shot for now and then...
Hey Funk, put a dryer on your compressor. They have them for removing moisture for spraying finishes at Grizzly Tools, and probably Harbor Fright too.
I have one on the larger compressor.. Got it for painting but havent painted yet! YET.
it seems to me that this is an argument better left to preference...lol some people do it this way , others that way : )
Kinda, but not really.. I think its more about economy and efficiency. Id prefer nitrogen, as it clearly has better characteristics, but I wont pay for it from elsewhere, and I dont have it here!!
Funk, your air is about 75% (or something like that) nitrogen isn't it? Just use your dryer on your compressor and take the moisture out and you should be fine.
yeah... Ive been using wet air all my life!! Its worked so far! Im not at all concerned about it! And yes, 7o something % in my scuba tanks, and thats just "air". AH, here we go, 78.084 percent at sea level. If I get a tank for charging my dirt bike shocks, then I would get a nipple for tires. My forks are air, too, both on the Vision (arent they?) and the Virago (are for sure). But, Im not going out of my way... Thats a good question about the air already in the tire, David. I wonder how they account for that. hmmmmmm..
Speaking of nipples, I wore suspenders the other day and they just about beat mine off at highway speed. BDC
HAHAHAHA,, ever go boogie board surfing?? we had little cheap styrofoam ones when I was young,, they would rub em right off.. in the salt water all stinging!! OUCH.
wow.... lol nipple talk . hilarious : )
Quote from: Re-Vision on May 06, 2010, 12:21:58 PM
Speaking of nipples, I wore suspenders the other day and they just about beat mine off at highway speed. BDC
LOL! That was good. I needed a good laugh!
David
off to breathe some nitrogenated air.....