Several weeks ago I went riding with a couple of old friends with cruisers through some local canyons. One had a Honda VTX 1800 and the other a Kawasaki Vulcan 800. I had my RJ. Throughout the day we would swap bikes every so often. On the straights the VTX provided an amazing launch and never seemed to run out of power – at least not that I was man enough to consume.
The big lesson of the day for me was that these cruisers don't handle very well in the twisties. For curvy canyon riding, you're really are forced into a leisurely ride. Neither of these bike could carve through curvy roads anywhere near pace of my RJ. On the RJ, these cruisers were long gone out of my rear-view mirror in a matter of seconds. And the handling of both these cruisers (especially the VTX) was so monolithic it just wasn't very fun for me; "are you done riding my RJ yet?"
Some of these cruisers are true eye candy and I've had my eye on a few especially nice looking ones with some cool paint schemes, but they're not longer on my list of potential next bikes. Like my buddy who owns the VTX mentioned "there's a lot to be said for a light mid sized V-twin for zipping through the canyons."
So buyer beware, before investing in a new or additional ride, do more than just ride it down the street and back. If at all possible take it out for a few hours. My buddy spent $14k on his VTX and if it were me, I'd be totally depressed. Aside from being able to launch it down a straight road at amazing speed, for me these cruisers are missing the fun factor of quick handling in addition to comfort (both of which the RJ does a competent job). And if you're like me and refuse to own another street bike with a chain it's either a sport tourer, adventure bike, or a Vision. I live close to several canyons (one just 5 minutes away) and there's no funner way to unwind than to take a couple of hours to experience - especially if you have the right bike.
MC designs are mission specific. Crop dusters don't make good fighter interceptors and P51 Mustangs are terrible crop dusters.
Each rider should define his or her mission and ride the bike that they feel best accomplishes that mission. My MC mission is sport touring. One of the best bikes available (new or used) to accomplish that mission is my xz550 RK.
My AC mission is sport flying but I can't afford a P51. BDC
im too tall for my a-10 dream.....
A10 is so ugly it's more like a nightmare. BDC
you know , a lot of people (most) say that.. i think that its a very pretty jet. the way its not like the rest. it stands out , and not to mention its performance and reliability
I'm a big fan of the Warthog!
One of our former ROV contributors is Jet av8r. He logged a lot of A-10 hours. His Vision electrics web site is fantastic!
H2O
Quote from: Re-Vision on October 30, 2010, 03:07:51 AM
A10 is so ugly it's more like a nightmare. BDC
A-10 is a nightmare for those on the receiving end of it. :-) 8)
QuoteA-10 is a nightmare for those on the receiving end of it
And this is why:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sALiuWg_I1k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sALiuWg_I1k)
if only i could fly one..............................
here we go : )
I've said it before and I'll say it again, assumming your V is fixed up to where you feel can depend on it (these are 28 year old bikes) the Vision is just a great "do it all" mid size bike. I know if I was able to blow 7-10,000 bucks the new bike would, it more extreme situations, brake a bit better, probably go faster as it probably would have a 600-900cc engine-gee it better be faster, etc,etc. BUT since I don't ride to the very edge, and I don't plan to take the V on a cross country two up trip, there really isn't any great advantage to putting out all that money for a new or newer bike-The Vision more then does what I need it to do-as least that's the way I see it.
My son-in-law recently bought a used 2008 900 Vulcan, very nice, only 2000 miles on it, appears he got a nice deal. We had a nice fall ride up in Northeast NE about two weeks ago, didn't appear he had any particular great edge in power and on about the only mile of twisty we even went on that afternoon (these roads don't exist in too many places here in the mid lands), he was scaping his pegs on turns that I'm sure a better rider on the V could have gone even faster on then I went as my "survivial reactions" are pretty high (that's an expression from "A twist of the Wrist" book 2) .
Best mid size sport touring bike that BMW did not make!
I just have to agree re: the versatility of the XZ550 as a sports tourer although my emphasis is more on the sport side of things.
I am in the position where I get to ride all the latest and greatest Ducati on a regular basis and to a lesser extend many of the other breeds as well as part of work. I've been riding continuously for a bit over forty years generally on the biggest and fastest, had an 83 XZ in 1984 for a year (until I got my hands on a new 650 Turbo), however it made an impression and now........... well what's that winking at you in the sidebar, no don't answer that......
With a few changes, additions, and removal of excess here and there the XZ550 handles extremely well, no power as such but agility by the bucketful as we all know!
Yesterday I got to do a comparison run on a new Ducati 848 and a 1198 over the local hills, wonderful bikes, tons of power and excellent handling...... so with you all being psychic you can guess which bike I prefer................ the XZ. For two reasons really, relaxed riding even under extreme pressure and not too much power, true a little more would be nice but it means you can keep it tapped out to the limit if so inclined and play the gears for the most part, no concerns about snapping the throttle open and losing the rear, just pure controllable drive. In my opinion the larger wheels and skinny tires are way more preferable than today's fat race tires. This is a country of corners and bulk horsepower tends to hinder rather than help, so the ability to just get up and go shows the tail pipe to many a bike and that accounts for much here and yet the XZ's can keep up a respectable pace all day where there is the room to do that.
Cheap to run too, on a modern big bore bike I get around 2-3000k out of a rear tire, for the same money I get 3 rear tires on the XZ and 14-18,000K for the same fun factor. You could say I'm a fan ;D
Treedragon, thank you very much for comparative report. Most interesting, and you'll never see it in any MC magazine.
Quote from: don_vanecek on November 01, 2010, 09:58:17 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, assuming your V is fixed up to where you feel can depend on it (these are 28 year old bikes) the Vision is just a great "do it all" mid size bike...Best mid size sport touring bike that BMW did not make!
:) I agree 100%. I've owned 'The Mistress' for 5, coming on 6 years now...and its a continuing love story 8) I really don't need anything else in my stable...
8) .......TIGER....... 8)
Quote from: don_vanecek on November 01, 2010, 09:58:17 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, assumming your V is fixed up to where you feel can depend on it (these are 28 year old bikes) the Vision is just a great "do it all" mid size bike.
* * *
Best mid size sport touring bike that BMW did not make!
You got that right. ;D ;D
Perhaps the finest tribute to the design philosophy of the Vision is Honda's new (to the US) NT700. Take a look at its specs at http://powersports.honda.com/2010/nt700v.aspx
Like the Deauville version available in the rest of the world for the last decade, and like the Vision, this is a narrow-angle V-twin, shaft-drive, mid-size sport tourer with a half fairing. Other than the fuel injection and radial tires, there is virtually nothing on the 2010 bike (for which the acquisition cost would drain your pocketbook to the tune of $10 g's minimum, list) that the Vision didn't have back in '82-'83. The Vision was, well, visionary, 2 decades ahead of everybody else. And in many ways, the Vision, despite its lower displacement, is a superior sport-touring bike, lighter, more agile, and more kick-in-the-pants, torquey _fun_ at typical canyon-carving speeds.
That's a nice bike, has anyone looked to see if the fuel injection would work on the Vee? BDC
man, that honda has some ground clearance. almost like a dual-sport
And for myself who has very little in the way of twisty roads, a well tuned Vision at highway speeds is almost like having an electric motor between the legs, and it will go for mile after mile-your own body will be the limiting factor, not the V.
;) I've been thinking about another bike, something really sporty...but...when I really think about what I've done with my Vision in just this past year, commuting, highway miles, mountain passes and really tight canyon corners...I can't think of why I need another bike ;D ;D ;D Nope, I'm sticking with this bike for the foreseeable future.
I still want another bike, But being a rider of vision, I CANNOt find one that will do it all with the same aplomb that the Vision displays. To top it, maintainance on the new bikes are $$$. I have ridden a few "super" sports and can't say i like them as much on the streets... maybe a ducati but again !!!
The SV would be a nice choice but that would violate rule #1 - Its too common
Quote from: Mike Jacobs on November 01, 2010, 06:24:04 PM
Perhaps the finest tribute to the design philosophy of the Vision is Honda's new (to the US) NT700. Take a look at its specs at http://powersports.honda.com/2010/nt700v.aspx
Like the Deauville version available in the rest of the world for the last decade, and like the Vision, this is a narrow-angle V-twin, shaft-drive, mid-size sport tourer with a half fairing. Other than the fuel injection and radial tires, there is virtually nothing on the 2010 bike (for which the acquisition cost would drain your pocketbook to the tune of $10 g's minimum, list) that the Vision didn't have back in '82-'83. The Vision was, well, visionary, 2 decades ahead of everybody else. And in many ways, the Vision, despite its lower displacement, is a superior sport-touring bike, lighter, more agile, and more kick-in-the-pants, torquey _fun_ at typical canyon-carving speeds.
my borther test rode a Dullville hoping it was the holy grail... nope, he's gonna stick with his Vision. The NT does have a nicer seat ;)
Quote from: Night Vision on November 03, 2010, 08:56:42 PM
my borther test rode a Dullville hoping it was the holy grail... nope, he's gonna stick with his Vision. The NT does have a nicer seat ;)
This is an interesting comment. If you compare NT700v's touted features and product positioning against the old RK marketing materials, they have a lot in common. The NT700v does seem like the new version of the RK. Is it possible to forward your brother's comments? I'm interested to hear his concerns.
In looking at the NT700v, the biggest concern that caught my eye was the fact that the motor serves as part of the frame, sending vibration to the rider via handlebars and foot pegs. I don't notice any vibration from my RJ.
And then there is the price tag. Is it really worth the $10k opportunity cost compared to the Vision? $10k seemed steep to me. Although adjusting for inflation the price is probably quite close to the 1983 MSRP of $3k
he test rode with his wife 'cuz they ride together alot...
he said it wasn't smooth ... I had an 83 shadow 700 VTwin so I can attest to that... that's a buzzzzzzzzyyyy lump
he got alot of wind / buffeting from the fairing / screen... even though it's adjustable
the deal breaker for him was that when he went to put his foot down at a stop, she had to move her feet off the pegs because of lack of room between the front and rear pegs... that and the saddlebags dug into her legs... BUT,, they dug the seat :D
as always... YMMV
Vfan, the V also uses its engine as a "stressed member" of the chassis. A trait it shares with Vincent.
A well designed and balanced motor should run smoothly. There is no substitute for smooth. ;)
Has anyone here ridden an inline four engine before? how does it compare to the vision's V-twin?
I rode a 04 Katana for a few weeks at the end of the summer. It was FAST, but sorta like a Car. VEry smoothly gets to 120-130Kmph... you dont really feel much, so the fun factor is way lower and there is almost no torque at lower rpm, so you cant pull away at idle :P like you can with a V
It is also Buzzy... Literally like it wants to vibrate your fingers off... very high frequency vibes while highway riding...
I have had quite a few over the years, the last one was an FZR1000 from new, breathed on a bit and capable over over 300kph. Very nice bike, handled like a dream particularly at speed, had more than adequate grunt at most revs although the bulk power was towards the upper rev range. I did around 280,000k on it...............
However I prefer the XZ550.
The inline fours tend to be smooth (at least all the ones I owned), bland even, generally good handlingl but don't have a detectable soul...........
The XZ has soul............ AND can be punted around the corners as well or quicker than many big fours and I for one don't feel quite so inclined to push the speed envelope these days particularly as I get this distinct feeling walking would become more than a hobby otherwise :police:
For me it comes down to the relationship between the ride experience and the bike/rider connection, not so much what the bike "will do".
My bike really really likes me, it helps I'm sure......................
I'm not asking because I'm considering one (like I could xD ) I'm just wondering, but that's interesting that you both say they are monotonus
Quote from: spectre on November 07, 2010, 09:11:57 AM
I'm not asking because I'm considering one (like I could xD ) I'm just wondering, but that's interesting that you both say they are monotonus
Yeah... that's my Honors English student...
i'm so proud...
And Dad's say they DON'T embarrass their sons!!! yeah Right!!
I just gotta jump in here ;D ;D I've had singles, twins of the parallel and V kind, triples, in-line fours, V fours and was lucky enough to even have an in-line 6. (Helps working in dealerships) Each of these bikes has their own personality, part of which comes from the engine; it's sound from the exhaust, it's mechanical noise, power delivery, smoothness or lack of. That is only one part of what gives each machine it's personality. Sometimes I crave the feeling of sitting astride a big bore in-line four. The neck jerking acceleration, the need to judiciously apply the throttle, the sweet sound of a 4 into 1 pipe! Some have been incredibly smooth, others it didn't really matter! However, I currently prefer the water cooled, shaft drive, nimble handling, fuel sipping, fairly powerful, FUN and simple Vision. I don't want the hassle of lubing and adjusting a chain, at any price. I don't want to be buying really expensive tires twice a season. I don't want the extra weight of a larger bike. What the Vision offers is a really nice package.
Tires now that's a point
FZR1000 - between 27 and 30 cents (NZ) per kilometer in the 90's
XZ550 - 1.08 cents (NZ) per kilometer today
FZR1000 - chain $356 (NZ) every 15,000k on average
XZ550 - ummmm I will report when I have the figures
At work I am tootling around on Ducati Streetfighter, well "tootling" is possibly not quite the right word. However front tire costs maybe not so bad(?) as it seems to hoist skywards with pleasant repeatability however the rear I'm thinking more than offsets this minor quirk. A VERY fun bike to ride, it just seems to fit when you hop on it, invites immediate irresponsibility not at all helped by great gobs of tire shredding horsepower available at a whims notice, (I don't have to pay for these you see). I have been expressly forbidden from pushing the boundaries over hill and dale :( :( which is sad really because how am I to enhance it's reputation for point and shoot meanness with added handling...................... ::) ::) However I can report that it is very willing through the corners and by extension would be a real hoot launching it through the twisties. Long distant rideabilty............ forget it, no wind protection at all. In total a VERY nice bike as long as you don't want to cover long distances at any sort of speed.
I have done a lot more k's on the Ducati 848 and 1198S and I have to say the 848 hit's the sweet spot, 138hp and excellent handling. The 1198 very similar with added brute!!!! And brakes have I mentioned brakes........... when I rode the 1198 for the first time I had just got off the XZ (not noted for brakes.....) and as luck would have it I had the traditional little old lady launching out of her driveway so with instinct at it's best I applied an XZ handfull !!!!
The bike stopped,
on one wheel,
and I thought I was destined for the moon.
So on good authority I can say the 1198 has superb brakes :o :o :o :o :o
I would like to say they would be nice on the XZ but the noodle thick front forks would fold.
And still, at the end of the day, I hop on my bike and go aaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh that's better (with minor mutterings about horsepower)
Seems like a Wee Strom 650 would be the modern day equivalent of the XZ55, you guys ever try one?
I disagree that in-line 4's are bland or monotonous - save the early GS550's. I had the opportunity to ride many different bikes from the Vision's era. Being a fan of bikes in general, to me they all had something to offer from the lowliest single to the CBX or KZ1300 six cylinders.
My first ride on an '81 GS1100E left me with shaking hands from adrenalin. The power delivery was exponential the further the throttle was turned. It was like a rheostat. I couldn't believe it was legal to market such a beast and unleash it on public roads. I would no sooner compare that to a Vision than I would a Harley XLCH, FZR or 250 Rebel! ;D
If I had the resources, my stable of bikes would be varied and deep. Unfortunately, that's not the case but I do have an '82 GPz550 and the Vision. Same year and displacement but very different personalities. The early KZ's and (later the Zephyr) were very "torquey" for half litre 4's. No so much the GP's. The power was shifted up in the rpm range. Great for racing but not nearly as fun on the street as the Vision's power delivery. The Vision will gladly pull out of turns even if you've been a little lazy with your gear selection. While not terrific in fast sweepers, it is very nimble and fun to ride. When it's not broken down, ( :o) I will more than likely take that out for a ride rather than the Kawi.
Quote from: Rikugun on November 11, 2010, 09:35:57 AM
I disagree that in-line 4's are bland or monotonous - save the early GS550's.
Aw, now, my newest baby resembles that remark. ;)
A 1978 GS550 is the latest (albeit oldest) addition to my stable and, for now, my favorite. Ridden as a commuter at, say, below 6000 rpm, it is smooth, quiet, feels light (for a 4-cyl), very stable on the highway but easy to flick, whether around town or on tight, technical twisties (not as easy as the Vision, but my XZ550 is laid up at the moment awaiting its rear-brake-rod-bolt transplant). And if you crank it over 6000 rpm, a whole different beast appears - it's no liter-bike killer by any means, but in its day, it outperformed all the other 550's.
QuoteI had the opportunity to ride many different bikes from the Vision's era. Being a fan of bikes in general, to me they all had something to offer from the lowliest single to the CBX or KZ1300 six cylinders.
Now that's more like it, Rikugun. There's a ride out there for everybody. Ride your own ride. Nothing wrong with a little bench racing and comparative analysis though.
QuoteIf I had the resources, my stable of bikes would be varied and deep.
Woo hoo! Agreed... ;D
I'm trying my hardest to fulfill that vision, personally... ::)
QuoteUnfortunately, that's not the case but I do have an '82 GPz550 and the Vision. Same year and displacement but very different personalities. The early KZ's and (later the Zephyr) were very "torquey" for half litre 4's. No so much the GP's. The power was shifted up in the rpm range. Great for racing but not nearly as fun on the street as the Vision's power delivery. The Vision will gladly pull out of turns even if you've been a little lazy with your gear selection. While not terrific in fast sweepers, it is very nimble and fun to ride. When it's not broken down, ( :o) I will more than likely take that out for a ride rather than the Kawi.
Great comparison-test report, sir. I test-rode a couple of '82 and '83 GPz550's when I first started looking to expand my one-bike stable (the Guzzi was my first re-entry bike, in 2006) and adding more variety, although focus on mid-size streetbikes still seems to be a "sweet spot" for me as to all 5 of them I have so far. I had also owned a 1971 CB500 four back in the day, and (even accounting for age-dimmed, rose-colored memory glasses) I found it hard to believe the Kawi 550s I rode in 2008 had even more displacement and horsepressure than the old Honda midsize 4 - it sure didn't feel like it. Maybe the GPz's I rode were wheezy and out of tune, but it felt like I had to crank their throttles way up to get any response at all, at low or mid revs. Not what I consider tractable in a daily rider. Sweet handling bike though, and I still might add one someday... ;)
My vision is my first bike but I do look and wonder about other bikes.When I go riding with the crew here I absolutely love riding with my vision.Or anytime I go out for that matter.I don't know any different and that is probably what has my curiosity up about other bikes but also offers contentment from my vision.The vision was the first bike I looked at and I snatched it up right away.And because of that I have met some of the best people this world has to offer.How could you ask for anymore?
"Seems like a Wee Strom 650 would be the modern day equivalent of the XZ55, you guys ever try one?"
I rode one to South America a couple of years ago. Check out my trip here if you want www.motobrothers.com
I still own it. I have a 650 and a 1000 V-strom right now. I believe the 650 to be the best all round bike I have ever owned. Put a light shaft drive on it and it would be awesome. If you ride alone and want to do gravel the 650 is the one. If you ride two up all the time the 1000 is a better bike.
I like NWrider have owned every engine configuration at some point.
I right now have a single SR500, multiple twins Vision,Ducati,CX650E, 2 V-stroms and a 4 cyl FJR1300. Plus my dirt bikes. They all have they're charm but I'll take a big twin any day!
I spend good amount of time checking out your website earlier this year while i was bored in class and dreaming of my next big ride. I never made the connection to you..
NICE!
Cool Raj! Howd you stumble onto it?
Always interesting to see how people find it without knowing about it.
Its easy when you have 3 hr lectures which involve listening to professor expound the various intricacies of venture capitalism.... I think someone on ADVrider posted a link to your site.
I rode an SV650 on my track (FAST course) at Shannonville a few years back -What an awesome machine for the track. But it doesn't do what the our Visions do. The riding position for one is to radical , no shaft, the fairing does not provide the same coverage,the footpeg to seat relationship is to tight. Of course these are all items that compare to the Vision as I ride it -as a daily to work machine & a cross Canada tourer.
My 2bits, Cheers Ken S.
Must be a tourer at heart, all my motorcycles starting with the CB160 became long distance rigs.
The XZ550 has some great features, but for long trips, the alternator frying became just too high a reliability issue for me.
I have the same desires to take my RJ on some interstate rides but I too have become timid to do so because of my stator frying.
Based on my experience with the stator that burned out a couple of years ago I believe that this is a heat problem. High priority on my "to do" list next year is to install an oil cooler per Lucky's instructions. I also have a belief that if I clean my connectors at the beginning of each season that I'll dramatically reduce the chance of a R/R failure or some other type of electrical failure. In short, I still have aspirations of taking the RJ on some extended rides. Time will tell if I actually do. Meantime, I've had quite a lot of fun on commute and day trips.
Kent
Its a bit of a PITA but there are ways to work around, mitigate risks
A well maintained bike will fry stators less often. (Kenny, Tiger, Lucky, Brian and others) will attest to that. (H2O's was an R/R problem)
It happened to me on my first over 1000k trip on day 3. My hard solderd connectors and mechanical ignorance cost me $300 for a used stator that had to be hunted down.
(To be fair they did spend close to 4 hrs with soldering and gasketing)
Before that i rode 600kms on the battery after unplugging the headlight. Spent money on a motel the previous night and stuck the battery on a tender overnight!!!
Now i am older and wiser. I would have done a stator swap on my spare engine just for practice before i left. And heeded the senior visionary's advice to take a spare stator, replaced the soldered connections and take the appropriate tools and gasket. It can be done on the roadside by leaning the bike over on its right (don't do this with a full gas tank).
The way i see it, most of us newer visionaries picked their bikes up because they were affordable. Like they say, there is alway a trade off. Older bikes, next to nothing initial cost is equated by higer probablity of brakedown.. I have made my peace with it.
On the upside, every time I had a mechanical issue on the road, I've met some of the nicest people so for me its worth it !!!
Maybe you could have pretend break-downs as a way to meet girls, just a thought. BDC
Girls don't stop to help fix bikes...
QuoteGirls don't stop to help fix bikes...
You're more likely to get Bubba and his '67 F100. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, unless you start hearing the dueling banjo music. :o
In my experience, it's the scariest tattooed up harley riders that stop and ask if they can help. I've even been offered a ride home from a fully patched gang member. Guys on modern sports bikes never ask.
Although I have no experience with any other bikes I really enjoy my vision.I want to travel all across Canada on a bike.I can retire in a little over 10 years with a full pension and am working toward being mortgage free which will allow me to do this.Hopefully my buddy(Tiger)will tag along as well as some others and roam free.