Iain and I have decided to go racing in pre '82 post classic (250cc-600cc). He is going to strip down his road bike (he doesn't think he's going to crash), I'm going to assemble a new one out of parts we both have and leave my touring bike unmolested. Since I am building from scratch, I can let my imagination go a bit wild with modifications - within reason there are some rules.
What would you do to your XZ if you were going racing ??
Here are all the Mods I am considering:
Green = Done
Strikethrough=Not doing
Bright Green = Done (Maintenance Item)
1. Cylinder head
YICS removal & cap ports
YICS replacement (Malossi Boost Bottles x 2)
Relocate breathers to catch can
Iridium sparkplugs
Index sparkplugs
82-83 gaskets
Use two rear valve covers for better crankcase venting
Cut 0.5mm from cylinder surfaces
Smooth intake ports
Polish Heads
2. Cylinder
Rebore to 650cc
Powdercoat Waterpump Joints
Replace Waterpump seals
Polish external cases
3. Crankshaft – piston
Bore and Stroke to 750cc
Uprated Rods and bearings
Wiseco pistons
Harmonic balance crank
4. Balancer
Balancer removal
5. Camshaft – Chain
Replacement race cams
Twingle cam timing
Replace timing chains
6. Valve
Grind / lap valves
Set valve lash
7. Water Pump
Debadge
Set thermostat
Clean and powdercoat
New ceramic seal, bearing and oil seal
8. Radiator Hose
Replacement fan motor eg Triumph Tiger 800
Silicon hoses
Fan sensor bypass switch
Trim pointy bits off radiator shroud
Trim Vanes off Shroud
Debadge shroud
Alloy radiator grill
Alloy Overflow Bottle
Remove / replace radiator shroud with alloy
Waterless coolant
Sand and heat polish plastics
Powder coat / paint
9. Oil Pump
?
10. Oil Filter
Oil Cooler
Weld scrape hole in cover
Powdercoat black
11. Air Filter
82->83 Flapper assembly
Replace filter material with K&N or similar
Intake trumpet extensions
Pod filters
Remove Flapper / Open Air intake
UNI air filter
Blockoff flapper hose
12. Carburetor
Replacement Carb (Weber dual throat, Single slide, single downdraught)
Rejet
Polyurethane fuel lines
Fuel line magnets
In-line fuel filter
Electric fuel pump (K&N, FuelFlow or similar)
Intake restrictors
Strip, ultrasound clean and powdercoat
Replace accelerator pump diaphragm
120/120 Air jets
140/140 Main jets
13. Exhaust
Flanges welded to Y piece
Replacement exhaust (Predator, Spec2, Cycleworks, Wolf, Marving, Macs, Supertrapp, Custom)
Exhaust baffle removal
Exhaust baffle added
14. Crankcase
Semi-synthetic oil
15. Crankcase Cover
Cooling fins
Engine crash guards
Crankcase thermometer
Powdercoat crankcase covers
Debadge
16. Generator
Ricks Stator
Honda 30 Amp stator
550 -> 400 Flywheel swap (or lighten stock flywheel)
Waterproof stator connector
Drilled Flywheel bolt
Stator removal (total loss)
17. Starting Motor
Replace Nose Seal with spring-lip design
Starter Repair kit
Powdercoat
18. Starter Clutch
Longer bolts and peen
19. Clutch
Heavy duty clutch springs
EBC Heavy Duty Clutch Plates
Euro -> US -> XZ400 gearing swap
20. Transmission
Replace transmission with RD400 6-speed
21. Middle Drive Gear
Chain drive conversion
22. Shift Cam – Fork
?
23. Shift Shaft
Replacement shift lever (XZ400D Alloy)
Replace Gear Lever Rubber
Powdercoat Linkages
24. Frame
Improve Bolts (Straight through with nuts)
De-tab
Full frame replacement
Grab handle removal
Debadge
Remove main stand
Powdercoat frame & Mounts
Relocate mounting for R/R
Carve excess material off exhaust hangers
25. Fender
Shorten front and rear fenders
Discard under-seat covers
Discard Tool Box
Relocate licence plate holder
Upgrade tookit
Warrant of Fitness (Safety Cert) Holder
Registration Label Holder
Custom battery box in rear cowl for LiFe Battery
26. Side Cover
Discard Side covers
Discard Battery Box
Discard Radiator Overflow
New Radiator overflow attached to radiator
New Blowby container attached to radiator
27. Swing Arm
Bronze swingarm bushings
Powdercoat swingarm
Replace swingarm bushings
Lengthen Swingarm
28. Drive Shaft
Chain conversion
Clean and lube
29. Rear Shock
82->83 swap
82 Shock Rebuild with Nitrogen Valve, Gold Shock Insert
Replace with R1 (early model) Ducati Paso or Triumph shock with relocated mount
New shock from YSS, Wilbur, Works Performance, Progressive etc)
30. Front Fork
Additional spacers
Progressive springs
Racetech emulators
82->83 Air caps/Stanchions
Air Valve
Gaiters
Fork Brace (Tarozzi)
Full front end conversion
Blacken fork tubes between triples
Air balancer tube
Powdercoat lowers / triple tree
Polish fork tubes
New fork seals
Bel-Ray W10 fork oil
31. Steering
Tapered roller bearings
Steering Damper
Powdercoat
Raise headlight ears
Shave Badge
Add Vision badge
32. Fuel Tank
POR 15 Liner
Drill Neck
Replace filler with flush cap
Add fuel level viewing window (flush mount)
Add electric fuel sender
Replace (eg custom alloy, modified off another bike)
Re-shape - trim bottom off tank rear
Insulated lining on bottom
Debadge
New Tank Cap
Petcock Repair Kit
Fuel filter (glass)
New Fuel Line
33. Seat
Corbin seat
Carved foam
Gel Insert
Add XZ400 strap
Modify seat pan to be flush with tank
New underseat rails
Single race seat
Fill voids in cowl
Remove hinges - Replacement mounting on sub-frame
34. Front Wheel
82->83 or XZ400 slotted disk rotors
R1 Bigger diameter rotors (& Caliper swap)
Aftermarket rotors (EBC or similar)
Increase tyre size up to 110 - Trim Mudguard to fit
Virago Wheel
Wheel Balance
Speedo cable blanking cap
Powdercoat - Black rims
Upgrade Rim tube-type to tubeless (Euro, Australasia)
Replace wheel bearings
35. Front Brake – Caliper
82->83 Dual disk front brake (US Only)
82->83 Dual disk master cylinder (US Only)
Stainless Braided Brake Lines (1, 2 or 3 line kit)
Large 4-pot calipers & adapters
Sintered pads
Brembo ceramic pads
New seals and dust boots
Powdercoat
36. Rear Wheel
Increase tyre size up to 120
Powdercoat - Black Rims
Upgrade rims tube-type to tubeless (Euro, Australasia)
Replace wheel bearings
Virago Wheel
37. Handlebar – Cable
82->83 risers (US Only)
RG250 Clip-ons (cut stock risers)
Bolt-on risers and traditional handlebar
Foam / gel grips
Handlebar end mirrors
Hand protectors
Replace Ignition key with RFID sensor
38. Front Master Cylinder
Replace with aftermarket
Drill and re-tap for socket head screws
Debadge
SS Brake Lines (Goodridge)
Replace Sight glass
Powdercoat
MC Rebuild Kit
39. Stand – Footrest
82->83 swap
Swap with 400D/550D Alloy
Shave (Cut/replace) exhaust hangers
Replace brake pedal
Remove rear stand
Aftermarket rearsets (Raask)
40. Meter
Complete replacement (Digital dash etc Motogadget Mini)
Complete replacement idiot lights (custom home made)
Temp gauge relocation
41. Headlight
7" Lucas Bucket (Ammeter converted to Temp Gauge)
7" Round headlight
Headlight Mounted digital temperature gauge
Headlight mounted voltmeter
Headlight Mounted Single LED Idiot Lights
Headlight modulator
Angel Eyes
LED Conversion
42. Taillight
LED Conversion
43. Turn Signal
Stumpy Stalks
Complete replacement
44. Electrical
Ignitech replacement TCI (Programmable or non programmable)
Throttle Position Sensor (for use with Ignitech TCI-P4)
Replacement Connectors
Ultraloud Snail Horn, 136db Stebel Nautilus Horn, or similar
VW 6Volt horn
Volt meter
Cut TCI rev limiter
Toggle switch for cooling fan & indicator
Relocate r/r to outside bike (or some other place)
Replace r/r with mosfet shunt or series type (FH0012A)
LED Licence plate lights
Replace fuse box with blade type
Daytime Running Lights
AGM/LiFe Battery
Accessory outlet
Full re-wire
Motogadget m-unit, m-lock,m-button
Aftermarket coils ( Nology)
Silicon spark leads (FBG)
Navigation
45. Handlebar Switch - Lever
Drilled Lever ends
Aftermarket levers
Euro Flash to pass swap
46. Fairing
83 Fairing
83 / Sports / Shark Fairing
Aftermarket fairings
Trim windscreen
Extra length windscreen
47. Other
Hard Luggage (Shoei, Yamaha)
Pack Rack
Non-standard paint
Powdercoat
Digital/Analog clock, Radar detector, GPS
lose the stock exhaust. beef up the suspention & brakes, remove the guages, lights, most of the seat, coolant bottle, body work, center & side stand. smaller tank. drop the bars.
might also want to look at replacing those 10mm(?) bolts that hold the right side frame piece on with 12mm. frame seems to flex there.. a light thin fan maybe too..
If you think you need a fan on a race bike, you aren't going fast enough.
Quote from: roro on October 15, 2011, 04:39:21 AM
.......there are some rules.
What would you do to your XZ if you were going racing ??
:) Start with what the rules allow/specify for a race bike and go from there.
Stand back and take a long hard look at the Vision you are going to use...and then take off
everything that is
not needed...OR...can be replaced with better/lighter/modified parts ;)
Engine service and tuning are going to be needed...a dyno would be a great help here 8)
8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)
I'd also suggest some mods to yourself like stretching and strength training. It will help on the bike and in the event of a "off the bike" excursion. Don't forget to upgrade your protective gear. If your helmet is more than 5 years old, replace it.
Regardless of your riding ability you can always benefit from the advise of the pros. High performance riding classes could be a good investment. Also, there are numerous books on the subject. Keith Code has a series called A Twist of the Wrist. I'd be inclined to recommend the followup Part 2 for your purposes if you didn't want to read both. There's a DVD based on Part 2 that's very informative. I'd recommend it to street riders as well. A little instruction can go a long way to improving your skills and boosting your confidence thus allowing you to more fully enjoy the experience.
Study the rulebook and class structure of the racing organization with an eye toward being able to compete in several classes. The more track time you can get, the more fun you'll have and your racing will improve more quickly. Enter multi hour endurance races if they have them. Both of those strategies worked for me when I raced the WERA circuit in the '80s. I ran 5 to 6 classes at each event and endurance races on my RZ 350 and my teammate's TT 500.
One suggestion I disagree with is about older helmets. Their protective value doesn't deteriorate with age. If the outer shell, the inner impact absorbing material, and the retention straps aren't damaged, it's OK. The comfort liner does deteriorate, but it can be repaired. If you want a newer helmet for other reasons, do it. Replacing helmets due to age is a popular misconception that some manufacturers and riders repeat. The head protection analysis and testing experts don't support it. Reading up on the Snell and DOT head protection standards is a good idea, too.
Make sure your equipment fits you well, especially your helmet, boots, and gloves. 'Race fit' is generally a bit more snug than one would normally choose for comfort on the street because it is meant for performance and protection first, comfort second.
Better carbs would be a plus but would need serious time and effort to fit and finagle. Tuning is an obvious area of importance. The best suspension you can afford and the best tires will both help, neither of which are inexpensive. You will go through tires quickly. Careful attention to all the mechanical details like condition of cables, lever pivots, axle fasteners, safety wire, tire pressure, engine adjustments, etc.
The previous advice is good: track time, school, physical conditioning, watch videos, read, etc. You will have a steep learning curve if you want to be competitive in a short time. Hot dog street riding is not like actual racing. Be careful, this can be addictive and hazardous to your wallet.
Contact John Clemens re getting more performance from your V.
I started road racing in '64 here in California and last raced in '75, so what I know may not be of value these days, but I think there will always be some general good ideas. Build your skill, experience moments of terror, build your ego, more terror, work on skill, more terror, etc. Rinse and repeat as necessary. Try to brake later, gas it sooner, steer with your weight (not the handle bars), look as far ahead in a turn as you can see (that is the place you are aiming for), and be smooth. Smooth will get you around the track faster, with less terror, and with less exertion. It's still a real work out.
A good rider on a mediocre machine will often beat a lesser rider on a better machine. You need experience to get there. Let us know how it unfolds.
Run light oil. Fret Nut, what's wrong with countersteering?
Quotesteer with your weight (not the handle bars),
Yikes, this is really bad advice. :o No offense fret nut, but shifting your weight to steer will bring about slow, lazy arcs at best. It's a common misconception and even some racers still believe it so don't feel bad.
Since I'm on my soap box let me address the helmet replacement interval as well. I was recently on the Shoei site and they recommend 3 years, not 5. I read Bell now also recommends 3 but have not confirmed that. I realize they are trying to sell helmets but there is more to it than that.
The same mechanism that deteriorates the comfort lining also effects the energy absorbing material. Sweat and heat for instance are big factors. A visual examination will not tell you much. If you drop a helmet, it's compromised to some degree - both the shell and the expanded polystyrene lining and there is usually no obvious signs. Parking it on a turn signal stalk or mirror effects the EPS lining as does the simple fact of wearing it over many hours and years. If you've left it in a car in the summer (which can exceed 150 F) the helmet has been compromised to some degree. Also, if it's not the current SNELL rating, I wouldn't race with it but that's just me. ;)
Yes helmets can be very expensive and that's the biggest reason people resist believing they deteriorate and need to be replaced. Not necessarily with the passage of time, but with use.
Helmet deterioration - replace due to age or not?
This question has been around for years. I looked for a definitive answer about 18 months or so ago and settled on checking with a motorcycle safety colleague and head protection expert. His opinion is what I based my prior post on. I'm inclined to trust his expertise and opinions. His background and credentials go back to working with Dr. Harry Hurt and the well known "Hurt report" at USC and are impeccable. See for yourself - http://www.ci-dynamics.com/cv/CVofDThom4-2008.pdf
Of course counter steering is used to initiate a turn, :-[ it's so automatic I didn't think to mention it. What I mean is once you have your line, to steer with your weight. There was no one dragging their knees in my time of reference. ;)
Neil, I will certainly concede this is a contentious topic and there as many experts as there are opinions. I too have done research so I guess it's a matter of what you're comfortable with. Here's an interesting article on how the tests are conceived and carried out. It compares various standards and even brings into question some of the Snell ratings and methodology. Dr. Hurt, Dr. Newman and others are quoted.
http://www.westcoastweasels.com/archives/PDF/Blowing_the_Lid_Off.pdf (http://www.westcoastweasels.com/archives/PDF/Blowing_the_Lid_Off.pdf)
I may have come across as being preachy but it's out of concern. Having been in an accident resulting in a concussion and a permanent flaw in my right retina, helmet safety became a bit of a passion. I guess my point was if you plan on participating in a sport where the idea is to go really fast on a motorcycle, don't scrimp on safety gear and particularly your helmet. :)
Ian/roro - is there a web page link you can share outlining the requirements for your intended racing venue? I'd be curious to learn what mods are allowed & required, safety gear requirements etc.
Do they require catch bottles for coolant and carbs for instance? How about belly pans for engine oil containment?
Rik, I understand your concerns, don't think you were preachy, and am sorry to learn of your retina. That stinks. Fortunately, during years of racing and riding I only had one head injury, a mild concussion with no long term effects. I was unconscious on the race track and didn't get run over - whew!
Regarding using older helmets, I'll stick with what I learned from head protection expert, David Thom. The opinion he gave me was based on his impact tests of both new and old helmets. In the article you referred to, the writer concluded his two paragraphs on Dave's background and expertise by writing "In other words, he knows what he is doing."
The article is about the helmet testing Dave did for the article, helmet standards, and standard setting organizations. It doesn't address whether using an old helmet is a good or bad idea. The same writer's follow up article in the New York Times doesn't either.
There is more information about that article - I'll put that into a separate post along with the links.
The helmet article was written by Dexter Ford for Motorcyclist's June 2005 issue. Who or whatever "West Coast Weasels" is, it appears they pirated the copyrighted article and deleted any reference to its writer, photographer, and publishing magazine. All of which is illegal. Here's a link to the full article. It was posted on Team Orgeon's web site. (They are Oregon's Rider Ed program.) Coincidentally, David Thom had sent me that link a few years ago.
http://teamoregon.orst.edu/to_web/PDF/Blowing%20the%20Lid%20Off,%20Motorcyclists%206-05,%20D.%20Ford.pdf
These are the links to Snell's two responses to the Motorcyclist article:
http://www.smf.org/docs/articles/pdf/btlo_response.pdf
http://www.smf.org/docs/articles/pdf/btlo_tech_response_2.pdf
This is a Q & A about the article from Motorcyclist:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/howto/answers/122_0909_ask_the_pro/index.html
Dexter Ford's follow up article in the New Youk Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/27/automobiles/27SNELL.html?pagewanted=all
Snell's response to the NYT article:
http://www.smf.org/docs/articles/responsenyt
David Thom's testing reported in the Motorcyclist and NYT articles clearly showed lower priced helmets did as well or better than high priced ones. Your point about not scrimping on safety gear, particularly helmets doesn't fit with that data. Of course, our lives have been filled with the marketing message of higher price = better. We are all influenced by that. Certainly, most of the more expensive helmets have better fit, comfort, venting, size choice, paint jobs, etc.
Bottom line? It's a very personal choice and one that can be based on the latest and best data.
Not sure I wanna stick my nose in this helmet thing, but as a new rider with lots to live for, I did a lot of research when I chose my helmet. I think the new vs old debate is very tough, because it's not a decision that occurs in a vacuum. An 8 year old helmet that had never been so much as dropped, that fits your head well, and has good visibility, and stays put at any speed is going to be better than a brand new 800 dollar techno marvel that doesn't fit your head. I read one article that did show that an 80 dollar helmet had the highest safety ratings of any on the market, but to work properly you really needed to have a spherical shaped head. I have also read (may be linked in the thread already) how the snell and DOT testing methods did not give a good approximation of the actual benefits of the helmet. I went to a bunch of motorcycle shops, and just started putting on helmets (any that weren't black, being a new rider I wanted a hi-vis color) and wearing them for a few minutes. I found that very few fit my head well, and I think that is possibly the most crucial element in determining a helmets effectiveness. I got down to 2 models I liked best, and wore each for about an hour in the store. (Its easy to kill time in a motorcycle showroom) If everything goes according to plan, I will never drop the helmet, and I'll use it for years.
That being said, the materials in the helmet degrade and become brittle. I don't think anyone would argue otherwise. They say 3 years, whether that is true if it never leaves the shelf, or three years of use, or 3 years in the trunk of a car, I have no way of knowing. As the chemistry gets more advance, you cannot always tell by the look or feel of it to know how it will react in a crash, or how much useful life it has left. I do not expect my helmet to be a life long companion, however, even on race day, If you have a good comfortable helmet, with all risks of the day, I wouldn't put it being a few years off expiration high on the list.
In the end, the message of "don't skimp on safety" is the most important point.
John, you make an excellent point in that the proper fit is crucial to any helmet's effectiveness regardless of price.
Neil, I'm aware of the article and it's origins but thanks for including the links. My link was a bit of a synopsis from a "Harleyesque' big twin site archive (?) and as I recall they gave full credit to the Motorcyclist article on the page where it was linked from. The Motorcyclist article is also referenced in several places in the write up. Snells responses are also within there and start on page 5. I realize the article does not mention new vs. old helmet testing and that wasn't the point of my including it. It's just one article with some interesting info - some contrary to my beliefs - that I thought some may find interesting but hardly represents the entirety of helmet R&D. If there's enough interest, I can post again with several pages of links to a myriad of helmet testing articles.... anyone? No? ;D :D
Depending on where roro and Ian race, the decision of how much to spend or how old the helmet is may not be up to them. For instance, here in NJ, for track days -not racing mind you, a Snell 2000 or 2005 rating is required. New Hamshire on the other hand requires "... an undamaged (!!!), full-faced helmet with DOT, SNELL, or BSI rating...". But I don't really care to get wrapped up in a helmet or gear debate. I'd much rather hear from them on what the bike requirements will be. ;) Then we can focus on the point of the post. :) Who was the idiot that brought gear and helmets into the discussion anyway!!??
Rik - Good points & good sense of humor! :) FYI - I recall the Snell double hit against a convex anvil test standard is rooted in the car racing that Snell died doing. It was designed to simulate a driver whacking his head against the roll bar of his race car. Dexter Ford's two articles criticized the Snell standard and how it doesn't apply well to motorcycling, but didn't mention these roots.
John - "That being said, the materials in the helmet degrade and become brittle. I don't think anyone would argue otherwise."
I, among others, do think otherwise. My thought on this is based on the tests and opinion from Dave Thom that I mentioned earlier. Are there tests, research, or qualified opinions to support the "degrade & become brittle" point of view?
Rikugun, I am on my first bike, don't even have my M class yet, so I have little input on racing mods. I know one idiot who is a sucker for a debate, regardless who brought it up ;D
neil, In answer to your question, I wouldn't call the idea that plastic and polystyrene degrade a point of view, I think it would more likely fall under the law of entropy. I didn't think anyone would argue it, because its just a fact, and not the point. The point is, how quickly do they degrade, what factors can be controlled, and how will it effect the properties of the materials. Your saying it doesn't effect them at all, Snell says 5 years and lists many reasons, among them degradation of the materials. I am saying the truth is probably somewhere in between. That is my point of view. I can't site any tests or credentials, I came up with it on my own. YMMV :)
Lets assume Iain and Roro, have the best helmet money can buy and its 50 years old, freshly refurbished and custom injection molded to their heads and was permanently installed by Darth Vader's helmet installer device, moments before the death star explosion and both survived without a scratch. Let us also assume, and pray, that it will never be tested.
I wanna hear more about the bikes and the racing. ;D
The helmet debate is useless, since all helmets over 10 years old are impounded.
The rules are here http://www.mnz.co.nz/competitionrules.aspx
Most interesting are Chapter 10 (Technical) and 25 (post classic)
Don't worry about more power right now, that can come later. A slow bike makes you a faster rider as you learn to make up for it in the corners. Concentrate on suspension, brakes and tires. I replaced my stock 83 exhaust with a wolf to save the stock stuff in case of a crash. The wolf was slower, but worth it in my opinion. I was using the 83 risers which worked fine, although I now have a modified upper triple clamp so I can use regular bars on it. I ran into clearance issues with the 83 footpegs and now use the Raask rearsets, although I think they go by a different name now. Go with the 83 dual discs if at all possible with stainless lines. Upgrade the springs in the front, forkbrace would be nice and a racetech kit for the forks. If I remember right it was one for a rm 80 that was used because of the size of the forks. A good shock is going to cost some coin but worth it in the end. I would go for one that you can adjust the length to raise the back end of the bike up. I used larger US sized bolts to lock the removeable frame rail in to place. Big difference. Did the same on the engine mount bolts. Took some custom work on the long through bolts, but again a big difference, not just in rigidity, but in vibration. Remove as much weight as you can, not easy on a Vision.
Last but not least, don't try to save money by buying cheap leathers. You will pay for it. Ask me how I know.
Jeff
Quote from: roro on October 15, 2011, 04:39:21 AM
Iain and I have decided to go racing in pre '82 post classic (250cc-600cc). I'm going to assemble a new one out of parts we both have and leave my touring bike unmolested. Since I am building from scratch, I can let my imagination go a bit wild with modifications - within reason there are some rules.
What would you do to your XZ if you were going racing ??
Looks like a spare frame plus other bits in your neck of the woods at the moment. http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-418242864.htm Gotta be worth at least $60!
As for mods; go for losing anything that weighs too much (has anyone tried running these without balancers?) , Flywheel from 400 is marginally lighter, 400 clutch will give a shorter gearing. Brakes are a basketcase, suspension will ned beefing up and then get the fattest tyres on the rims you can get away with.
As for "He is going to strip down his road bike (he doesn't think he's going to crash)," Yeah, right.
Have fun
Quote from: SBVisionNZ on October 25, 2011, 04:47:02 AM
Looks like a spare frame plus other bits in your neck of the woods at the moment. http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/motorbikes/classic-vintage/auction-418242864.htm Gotta be worth at least $60!
Thanks, I've got a bid in on that one.
QuoteDon't worry about more power right now, that can come later.
If and when you seek more power, it seems to me there was a discussion regarding a crankcase breather mod that purportedly added power. It involved disconnecting from the airbox and and using a catch bottle - which you may have to do anyway? (haven't gone through the extensive list of requirements linked earlier)
Also, treedragon had created a free flow air filter and used it in conjunction with lengthened inlet "trumpets" to good effect.
That does remind me. I believe the front cam cover has a very small spigot that connects to the airbox. Replace that cam cover with a rear one which has a much larger spigot and vent them to atmosphere. It does help the power.
As far as tires go, don't go overboard on tires. You don't have enough power to require bigger ones and the bigger they are the more they weigh. The narrow rims will pinch in wider tires and mess with the handling. A 120 is plenty in the rear and a 100 does good on the front. If anyone still makes them a 100/80-18 works best on the front and makes for a much more stable platform at speed. I don't think anyone makes them anymore especially in a race compound.
Jeff
Can you explain why the front cam cover hose spigot is of different size than the rear? I'm guessing the smaller fitting has more vacuum. BDC
My impression was the majority of venting goes on with the rear. The front's placement in the airbox seems to facilitate draining of any accumulated oil back into the engine.
Quote from: jefferson on October 25, 2011, 10:39:35 PM
and vent them to atmosphere.
Ummmmmm, not really a good idea!!
Unless you use some sort of 'trap', e.g. a catch bottle, you will have oil vapour all over your engine, frame, pants, boots... and possibly the tire(s)/brake(s)...not good at all!!!
8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)
Venting to a catch can, which would be required by the sanctioning body, is still venting to atmosphere. Hopefully the motor will be in good shape and there won't be much blowby.
Jeff
So my 5th XZ was delivered last night. This one is going to be the race bike
It does need a bit of work. There are no calipers, engine, controls, electrics - just what you can see, but I do have a LOT of spare parts. I recon I can get 80% done without buying anything. The coolest thing is it came with a genuine sport fairing - first I've ever seen in real life. Missing the side vents though :-(
On the plus side the guy who sold it has a dyno, and will swap my engine scope (which I don't use) for some time on it. Woo hoo
(https://sites.google.com/site/rsimonnz/xzpictures/DSC00079e.JPG)
Next weeks job is building a work stand, and stripping that frame for painting.
Everything stripped off, and ready for prepping and painting. You can see my touring baby in the background, all strapped up so it is earthquake immune
(https://sites.google.com/site/rsimonnz/_/rsrc/1320988829893/xzpictures/Frame.jpg)
While you have the frame layed bare it would be a good time to cut off brackets and such that you won't need on a racebike. There isn't a lot of weight to be lost, but it all helps.
Jeff
I took the full fairing off mine, and its frame work and it weighed 10.7 kgs it made a huge difference to performance and pack rack that was another 1.8 kgs .
Iain
NZ
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc379/iaingeorge666/Picture.jpg
are you going to use the bike on the street in the future, or is it now a dedicated race bike? It makes a difference in what you might remove or add.
No plans to put it back on the road, the registration requirements are fairly high, but you never know. I'll leave it in as recoverable condition as I can.
Iain on the other hand will be riding his bike during the week, then stripping lights etc off for the weekends.
Nice looking pipes Ian, they look even better on the naked bike - all you need now is a matching sport fairing
So the bike is fully stripped to bare metal, and in the process of POR15 painting. I went shopping the other day for a starter clutch, came back with starter clutch, lighter XZ400 flywheel, XZ400 Gearing. and my MACS arrived the other day from USA
I stripped all the paint off it with paint stripper
Wash
Marine Clean
Wash
Metal Ready
Wash
Por 15 (2 coats)
Tie Coat
Por15 Hardnose 2 Pack Orange
What a disaster - the orange is not a cool orange but almost apricot. A huge disappointment that would no doubt get me arse raped if I rode it around dodgy parts of town with my leather pants. A quick sand and covered it in Por15 Blackcote. Blackcote is pretty cool. It's self leveling paint so no brush marks, and is fairly glossy but it does dimple, and runs easily. It dulls up when sanded, but seems pretty tough.
Some things I need for my race bike...so if you have any of these let me know
.Clutch cable
.Fork brace
.Tapered head bearings
.Stainless brake lines
.Stator
(http://sites.google.com/site/rsimonnz/xzpictures/IMG_0279.JPG)
The frame is looking good! When is the first event and will you be ready in time?
I think we've missed this season, it will be winter before the bike is done, so aiming for October
I can come up with a used clutch cable, stator, new tapered head bearings (Pyramid). I too would like a Fork Brace and Stainless Steel Brake Lines. Can post pictures if you like. BDC
I bought a vision race bike, while living in OR. seat was modified to accomodate a short legged rider. It ha most of a '83 front end and brakes. a set of Z bars mounted in a custom made crown. A custom made exhaust ( loud as hell!) and every bolt on it was safety wired.. I have pics some where. The front end is on my bike , the exhaust is on Blakes bike . I sold the seat to some one . I sent the custom crown to David Arpino,
Now my bottom is just like lucky's...
(http://sites.google.com/site/rsimonnz/_/rsrc/1328855821800/xzpictures/My%20Bum.jpg)
Steering Head bearings arrived from Bobby :-) and installed. I carefully worked out which was the upper and lower, and them put them in the wrong way round. The tapered bearing shells are thin and a bugger to get out again. Must have taken about 2 hours.
Forks are re-built with lowers/inners from an XZ400 (same as a US83), progressive springs which are standard on the 16R model 550, painted black, fitted with fork brace and gaiters off an old BSA. Just need to find some air caps as these ones are rooted all stripped and unsalvageable.
It's looking good! So is that nice red lift - what brand is that?
Quote from: Rikugun on March 04, 2012, 09:13:10 AM
It's looking good! So is that nice red lift - what brand is that?
It's a no name brand one from China.
I was going to make a table out of plywood to this design http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc210/constriktor/bike%20-%20table/work_table01.jpg (http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc210/constriktor/bike%20-%20table/work_table01.jpg)
when this came up second hand and about the same price or cheaper than the plywood, bolts, wheels etc would have been.
It raises slightly squeakily up to 820mm with a foot pump, and drops with a lever. It's just a standard large bottle jack in there so easy replacement if it fails.
If you haven't used a bike lift before, then you won't appreciate how amazing they are (generally, not this one in particular). I can work twice as long on my bikes without getting a stiff back - everything is just so very much easier - even cleaning is more fun.
I can appreciate how nice they are. I bought a very well used foot pump/hydraulic one from a shop that upgraded to pneumatic units. Yours looks similar to a Harbor (China) Freight lift one of my brothers just bought. He had been using a home built table (fixed height) but was difficult to load and unload by himself.. :(
Quote from: Rikugun on March 05, 2012, 10:47:09 AM
He had been using a home built table (fixed height) but was difficult to load and unload by himself.. :(
a decent electric winch would solve that problem...
My work table is 1" plywood 18" off the ground, 2' x 7' top surface. It has 6, 4x4 legs and some 2x4 running around the top and bottom shelf. when you use a loading ramp to put a vision on the thing, you can grab the front brake to stop hard, the table doesn't even flinch. The only draw back is the floor space intakes up, so I always keep a bike up their, also it is a two man job, so I need an assistant to put a larger bike on it.
supervision, his table was very similar to what you described. Yes, it is much safer with 2 people especially with his VFR and CBR1000 - both heavier than a V. He has an electric winch that he sometimes used but attachment points on most bikes requires lots of panel removal. Placement of the table was another issue for the required head room as well. Cycle World magazine had a decent coupon for the HF lift and that was all the excuse he needed. :)
Awesome project. Are u going to get rearsets?
lucky, and rikugun, i have an idea on making it self loading, but i have more than one thing inmind. I have 2x12x8' it is strong piece of wood, if i mak a way to park the vision on it,using tydown straps so the bike is secure from falling just infront of the table, then have a way to pick the front of that board up even with top, insert hinge pin, lift on the back of th board until level. Untie, and roll forward!
Quote from: Raj1988 on March 07, 2012, 08:16:40 PM
Awesome project. Are u going to get rearsets?
I have the 83 style pegs to put on it, but with the clipons, I have a feeling I'll need something a bit more extreme.
Raask do a set for the XZ, but they are way out of my price bracket. Someone on here made "rearsets" by direct mounting pegs to the aluminium bracket by drilling a hole and using a bolt. I presume extended the other bits with some backyard welding - I'll probably end up doing something like that.
that's down track a bit - I still haven't got a running engine and after treedragons post I may have to invest in some hot cams. this project is becoming extremely expensive.
Quotethis project is becoming extremely expensive
LOL That's why I only lasted one season! It was fun though and I don't regret a penny of it. :)
Quote from: roro on March 08, 2012, 06:21:51 PM
Someone on here made "rearsets" by direct mounting pegs to the aluminium bracket by drilling a hole and using a bolt. I presume extended the other bits with some backyard welding - I'll probably end up doing something like that.
I did that, i also extended the shifter all the way back, the rear brake i never got moved, but i rarely use it.. it's EXTREEMLY uncomfortable after a couple of hours, or several jaunts, but for racing it may work well.... i'm putting it back to normal this year. if your interested in buying my setup perhaps, send me a p.m. no rush it's not going anywhere..
Btw, i was looking at the 850's rear caliper set up, & if i could weld & had spare parts, i can see it being adapted to the Vision, & possably even linked to the fronts... something to think about..
"Vision is the gift to see, What others only dream."
That sounds like something Ron McCoy could pull off in a heart beat.
i know your right QB, and he'd woop up a set of forks and exhaust,just caus it was easy!! Ron Modify,for president!
Roro, you started this thread by asking "What would you do to your XZ if you were going racing ?? " I don't think it's been suggested yet but recently it occurred to me : add a GoPro camera! :)
On another forum I belong to some of the guys race. One in particular has an on-board camera and documents everything - track days, practices, and of course the actual races. Watching his videos has me wishing the technology were available when I raced. Other than some still pics and fading memories :( there's not much left of the experience all these years later. Not only will you have a great record of the races for posterity, it could be a great training tool too.
Quote from: roro on March 08, 2012, 06:21:51 PM
Someone on here made "rearsets" by direct mounting pegs to the aluminium bracket by drilling a hole and using a bolt. I presume extended the other bits with some backyard welding
You don't even need the aluminum bits, you can actually save a nice bit of weight by ditching them entirely and just bending up some hardware store flatstock. A hammer, a vice, and a buzzbox is all you need, I have Gixxer pegs on my bike, and they're high enough that I wonder if I might have too much ground clearance on them. Hooking up the brake linkage is a little trickier, but doable. Mine is really weak, but it gives me stoplight standing power which is all I really need it for.
Quote from: Extent on March 10, 2012, 04:55:00 AM
You don't even need the aluminum bits, you can actually save a nice bit of weight by ditching them entirely and just bending up some hardware store flatstock. A hammer, a vice, and a buzzbox is all you need, I have Gixxer pegs on my bike, and they're high enough that I wonder if I might have too much ground clearance on them. Hooking up the brake linkage is a little trickier, but doable. Mine is really weak, but it gives me stoplight standing power which is all I really need it for.
Pics por favor?
That does sound interesting - please do post some pics. :)
edit: Actually, I'd be curious to see your setup too Lucky.
Quote from: Lucky on March 10, 2012, 02:27:23 PM
Quote from: Extent on March 10, 2012, 04:55:00 AM
You don't even need the aluminum bits, you can actually save a nice bit of weight by ditching them entirely and just bending up some hardware store flatstock. A hammer, a vice, and a buzzbox is all you need, I have Gixxer pegs on my bike, and they're high enough that I wonder if I might have too much ground clearance on them. Hooking up the brake linkage is a little trickier, but doable. Mine is really weak, but it gives me stoplight standing power which is all I really need it for.
Pics por favor?
I second that.. would love to see some pics
I don't have any recent ones, but I found some of the ones I took in 06.
Here you can see a bit of the brake linkage
(http://rovmedia.dyndns.org/forum/download/file.php?id=959&t=1) (http://rovmedia.dyndns.org/forum/download/file.php?id=959&mode=view)
Shifter side is plug and play
(http://rovmedia.dyndns.org/forum/download/file.php?id=961&t=1) (http://rovmedia.dyndns.org/forum/download/file.php?id=961&mode=view)
I can try and get better pics of the mounting points if you want them, but there really isn't much special about them.
I tried fitting the TZR clipons today. My initial plan was to chop the risers and place them under the upper triple tree. Two problems with that. The first was the mounting for the ignition switch was in the way. Well I don't need no stinking ignition switch, so buzzed the mount off with my hacksaw. The second problem was that the switchgear hits the tank on full lock, and to make them clear they need to be straight out either side. Very uncomfortable.
Change to plan B - I remember reading that Treedragon mounted his clipons above the triple by lowering the bike down 36mm onto the fork inners, so did the same. This is them - no paint yet - that will be done in the weekend once I'm happy with all the positions.
I experimented with some radical bars on my race bike that had the same bar/tank interference. I extended the steering stops with temporarily tack-welded extensions to limit the turn radius. You don't need much handlebar movement once underway but I admit it was a PITA moving the thing around the garage, paddock, etc.
Not a perfect solution but I mention it only as I hate to see you lose any ground clearance. I'm sure you read Treedragon was draggin' his header pipes with regularity after that mod. Hitting immovable stuff while pitched over in a turn tends to unload the tires and exponentially increase the odds of a DNF or worse! :o
They do look good and keep the updates coming!
Nobody will agree with me, but counter steering is a bunch of bunk!! I've had people try to explain it to me and I have tried to observe it when I ride . Makes no sense at all! It popped up in the 90's in some motor cycle mag . Maybe I've been doing it all along . But i don't see it.
You're right Rick. You've been doing it all along and just didn't realize it.
When my oldest son started to ride on the streets a a bit, he came back one day telling me how he almost got creamed going up a curving hill while meeting traffic. He asked me why I hadn't told him that you had to steer opposite of the way you wanted to go. That had never crossed my mind because the boy had been riding a dirt bike on my property for quite some time. I learned this on a bicycle from my childhood days. If you've ever ran a floor buffer you know that raising or lowering the handle will move the buffer right or left and the faster the buffer speed the more pronounced the direction change. Same for a bike, counter steering with input from the handlebars or weight shifting is always going on but is not very noticeable at low speeds. If it didn't occur I think you would fall over when the bike is in a leaning turn. BDC
Quote from: Rick G on March 13, 2012, 09:47:54 PMMaybe I've been doing it all along . But i don't see it.
^^This
Here's a bike that Kieth Code made to demonstrate that weight shift won't cause a bike to turn in.
http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4snkUUolJ0&t=3s
Pause the video at 3s in and look particularly at Lorenzo and Dovizioso, it's most apparent on their machines IMO. Lorenzo is in the middle of his turn in, his bike center is aiming to the left of camera, and his front wheel is pointing straight at it. Dovi is just starting his turn in and you can clearly see the inside edge of his wheel opening up to camera (turning away from his path of travel).
Quote from: Rick G on March 13, 2012, 09:47:54 PM
Nobody will agree with m, but counter steering is a bunch of bunk!! I've had people try to explain it to me and I have tried to observe it when I ride .
I can see if I can find my Physics Thesis that talked about how it worked if you want... Yes, it exists. Yes, it works. Yes, it's the best way of turning a motorcycle. Yes, I did the math to figure it out....
Maybe it will help if you think about it as only being used in the transition into the turn (say from upright to lean, or from lean to upright) but not in the turn itself...
Counter steering puts your front wheel to the outside of the turn, causing gravity to make you fall to the inside, until you let the wheels line up again to smoothly execute the turn. If you keep counter steering you will keep falling.
I ride using a lot of body english in turns. This does nothing to steer the bike , but does allow me not to have to lean the bike as far in a given turn and still maintain the best possable tyre grip.
I learned this from watching films and photos of Mike Hailwood , Phil Read and Mike (Michelle) Duff, The hero's of my youth.
The inside foot is pointed off the peg at a 45 degree angle and aimed down at about 30 degrees . This allows the rider to detect where the road is , before grounding anything on the bike. The left buttock is on the right side of the seat, to move as much weight as possable to the inside of a turn
Steering is done with the bars( natch) . The part I cannot detect is that the statement that I am pushing on the right bar in a right turn. I am pushing on the left side in a right turn and pulling back on the right side of the bars. I have payed attention ,trying to observe the "counter steering ".
As far as Bicycles go, you turn the bars to the side that is falling. Same thing with a motorcycle.
Usually the steering input is so slight we probably don't notice it, and we do the counter steering automatically, just like on a bicycle. We can get away with all sorts of shennanigans at moderate speeds and not really endanger ourselves or others, but at the higher speeds where we close in on the limits of traction and common sense things get serious. The road gets really narrow and room for misjudgement (fudge factor) all but disappears. Hopefully we react automatically and go through the turns smoothly without having to think about the mechanics of what is happening. However, if the bike shakes it's head, wobbles, etc. we need to analyze what we are doing wrong.
The narrower tires of days gone by (like on the XZ) handled differently than the wide tires of today's modern machines. The narrower tires kept the contact patch much closer to the center of gravity of the machine, as opposed to the wide wheels that can have a contact patch inches to the inside of the center of gravity when leaning. The narrower tires allow quicker handling as is the reputation of the Vision. All this doesn't mean much if you don't get near the limits of traction or good sense. ;)
My VX , being a generation newer than the Vision, has somewhat wider wheels and tyres . That, coupled with the 5.5 longer wheel base and cruiser fork angle make it a ( by Vision standards) a slow handler. Above 80 mph in large radius sweepers the VX is steadier. Over all the Vision is a superior performer.
Yes I do grind the pipes but that is more of a "can't be bothered to move my ass" sort of thing, (I specialize in it), I grind a standard setup just as well if I trust the tires. Bumps don't help either but that shouldn't be a problem on the race track.
When instructing a new rider I generally get them to move along at a moderate clip and gently push the bars one side or the other, (dependent on the corner and with prior warnings of course). The bike will always lean the exact amount of input, it can be a saver in a sudden tightening corner.................. :o :o :o :o and we live in a land of delicious corners down here so it tends to be relevant ;D ;D
Many have said that it is their weight movement but a close observation generally shows the outside arm actually gets pulled back.
Another point of laziness for me is that I like close in short bars rather than wide because they require less leverage for the required lean.
Hey Rick,
When I read
Quote from: Rick G on March 15, 2012, 12:38:48 AMI am pushing on the left side in a right turn and pulling back on the right side of the bars.
and translate that to my experience of being heeled over in a right turn, that left bar push action for me, is when I am trying to upright the bike, widen the arc/line, or slow a bit of too quick rear tire drift.
I don't lean way off or as you say,
Quote from: Rick G on March 15, 2012, 12:38:48 AMI ride using a lot of body english in turns.
which makes me think that your potentially countering your over leaned body weight levered out off the side of the bike when you push back on the left bar in a right turn. We each have our own riding style, I wonder if you were to come in board a bit on the body lean that you would find more balance in the equation with less counter effort being put into the upside bar. This would create a more neutral feel on the bar for more subtle feedback and conserve energy as well.
I can also, say, that man thinking this through and feeling the turns and interaction as I sort it out gets me excited to get over this cold and sore throat, fix the fried regulator that should arrive on Friday, and get out carving turns on the TDM this week.
Just some thoughts to add to the mix,
Rich
Nice Vid there Extent. I like the part starting about .48 through the end where the rear starts to loosen up and he lightens the counter steer to hook it back up.
Nah, He's just steering with the throttle. All the kids are doing it now.... at least the ones with slicks, lots of HP and talent :D
I can control corner speed by the amount of weight I move to the inside of the turn. If I I find I have too much speed I move more weight to inside . If conditions warrent slowing down I move weight closer to the centre line of the bike . Throttle stays mostly the same.
I started doing the even more when my front brake became mostly unusable, due to a set of warped disc's . I found I was over cooking the turns and as the brake was dangerous , I resorted to increasing the amount of weight to the inside , so that I did not have to brake, but maintained the same speed.
Search for this vid, jake holden rider clinic musselman, 4:45 min vid of some pretty cool rider technic
Quote from: Rikugun on October 15, 2011, 12:00:09 PMKeith Code has a series called A Twist of the Wrist. I'd be inclined to recommend the followup Part 2 for your purposes if you didn't want to read both. There's a DVD based on Part 2 that's very informative. I'd recommend it to street riders as well.
I took Rikis advice and bought the
A Twist of the Wrist video - it's a bit over the top (i dont like watching two guys fisting eachother), but very very informative. Made me realise what a crap rider I am, and will make me seek out advanced training.
QuoteMade me realise what a crap rider I am,
Just look at it as having room for improvement?! LOL :) Those are advanced techniques most riders aren't aware of so don't feel bad. There's nothing wrong with seeking out training and no such thing as being "too" prepared. ;) :)
Hi Rohan
How is the race bike going? Are you up and running for the start of the season? Hope to set up one of my bikes for the 82 classics class as well.
Slowly :-(
Perhaps I'll have a bike ready by Christmas, but I keep adding new mods
I'm going off the idea of track though, I hear so many horror stories
So I w2as looking around for some Upside down forks, but gave up in the end for both cost, and the difficulty of it all especially with clearance on the tank. Largely cost - good front ends are rare as hen's teeth and upwards of 2K - it would also upset some other ideas I have.
The fork inners are kind of rusty where the pinch bolts go, but still serviceable. I already had BSA Gaiters and a Tarrozi Fork Brace but have now added Racetech gold valves and Air caps / inners off a XZ400
The progressive springs are stock on the XZ Aus/NZ XZ550 16R model. Raceteck say not to use progressives, but don't say why.
For some reason the aluminium bush at the bottom of one of these was deformed – you can see in the picture it is out of round. Perhaps I over tightened it last time. The bolt came out OK, but there was no way it was going in again without drilling it out. I swapped it out with a spare.
I was fortunate to have a friend, whose dad invented the Bell helmet camera. He wore it for practice at Willow springs and after watching it a few times my lap times dropped by days, not seconds. He wore it at Daytona as well . The boards went by like a picket fence! He was riding a Yamaha TD!B. He gave me a set of Goodyears that he was done with , they were bedded in perfectly for production racing on my Suzuki X6
The forks are together, filled with oil and on the bike. The other 1/2 litre ended up on the floor - what a mess.
Hint for getting the fork level right - the fork oil level is up to the threads on the inner when fully compressed and the springs out - a lot easier to judge than with the forks extended and trying to peer down the tube.
I have a 7" chrome headlight - new ex Taiwan. I think it looks OK but there isn't enough room in the bucket for all the wires. AAnd it takes up so much room I won't be able to fit my new gauges in. I'll have to fab/buy some new mounting ears, but installed them anyways to get an idea of looks. I know you don't use headlights for racing, but this bike will be dual purpose - assuming I end up on the track at all.
Here it is on a trial fit with some mini turn signals that I had on before the earthquake. The difference between these and the huge dumbo ears is amazing. These are Halogen off ebay, not LED, so the flasher will still work.
I've also settled on some drag bars. I tried a pair of FZR250 clipons, but they bash the tank with about 2 degrees of turn. In the end I chopped the handlebar risers off flush with the triple and mounted the converted triple from Glyn in Auckland who had hippie bars on his.
Not sure about the shortie mudguard - I think I trimmed it too much in the front. Damn I don't have a spare either.
Also dropped in a NOS radiator cowl I picked up for $10.
Another pic of the drag bars.
The idiot lights will not be going back in there - or the ignition. I have a cunning plan...
If ever there was proof that the Japanese employ child slave labour it is the XZ exhaust system. There is NO WAY an adult can get that exhaust in or out unless they have spooky dwarf hands.
The trumpet shaped stock exhausts are exceedingly heavy, hideously ugly, and very un-cafe.
I picked up a pair of Spec2 pipes a while back from the US ($100 shipping) - Can't remember his name but he was using the 550 to build a cart, and didn't neet the pipes. They are Steel pipe with stainless (or very hard alloy) canisters.
These are horribly rusted (but still solid), broken in half and a bit battered. I welded them up, gave them a clean and a trial fit. They look much better, and about 10kg lighter.
My old pipes are stainless replicas - for sale if anyone wants them. I also have a pair of NOS Macs that I won't be needing if these turn out as I hope.
Before I coat them I want to drill them and weld on O2 sensor bungs.
Perhaps they should be an inch or two shorter.
While I mull over the exhausts, My gauges arrived from Dime City Cycles. They have built in idiot lights :-) Though I'll need to do something with diodes as there is only a single turn LED
Here they are compared to the stock gauges, and some others I bought, but hated when I found they weren't real metal chrome but chromified plastic - Yuck. and that it didn't go up to the ton. $US50 + postage if anyone wants them.
Being water cooled, I need a temp gauge, and I'd like a volt meter also. No idea what to do about these. - My new gauges are 64mm, so even 52mm temp / volt gauges will look too big.
Quote from: roro on October 26, 2012, 06:04:49 PM
Slowly :-(
Perhaps I'll have a bike ready by Christmas, but I keep adding new mods
I'm going off the idea of track though, I hear so many horror stories
LOL, very easy to get caught up in making it better rather than getting it on the track, however as long as it goes it's all you need. Racing is fun if you enjoy riding fast, it's much safer than riding on the road, everything is going in the same direction at least. Ease yourself into it, get the bike going, take it to track days and rider training days to get as much practice riding on it as you can. Join the local club and get into a race, start at the back of the grid and just circle round tagging along behind someone. The excitement will bite you and you'll be away. If you haven't raced and go straight to a race meeting (as I foolishly did thinking it was easy) it gets all a bit stressful and more likely to crash.
I raced an Aprilia RS250 in clubman races in the UK for a year, it was so much fun but very expensive. It was my first time racing, friends I was with had raced in NZ, hence going straight to a race meeting but it was all new to me. Not sure how they do it here but they had a rookie class where we had to wear a orange fluro vest for our first 6 meetings I think it was so everyone else knew to give you a bit of space (well that was the theory). I raced on all the big circuits in the UK and really enjoyed it, however I ended up getting a bit of a name for falling off and having a bike held together with duct tape ;D. I'll definitely be getting in plenty of practice and training before I go out this time.
Then for some people racing just isn't for them. I meet guys in the UK that had built bikes specially for track days, that's all they did and they loved it. No pressure to be fastest, ride as much or little as you feel like and at your own pace. Then you can do that at race meetings too if you aren't affected by peer pressure!
If you do go to the track make sure you get physically fit too, it's not just about the bike. A friend told me he was thinking of doing motorcycle racing because it looks so easy, just sit there and twist the throttle. Can't be further from reality. I was exhausted after a race because there is no resting and was always moving round on bike preparing for next corner, bum hardly touches the seat. A friend we raced with in UK of rather larger stature would collapse after coming in from a race. He always need someone to help him get out of his leathers he was that tired, and these were sprint races of 6 laps so only lasted 5-6 minutes!
I still remember it very fondly and one of the reasons I want to get my bikes back out. Was lots of fun riding the little 250 round outside of fat 600s in big sweeping corners and looking down the road on its side. I know the XZ wont handle quite like that but it will be lots of fun!
I was going to build a bracket for my gauges today, but found a pair of used R1 Rotors on the Internet, and just had to fit them.
The bolt holes are identical, as is the spacing between rotors - they are dead flat. They have a larger diameter, so fitted a spacer to jig them out 25mm or so (thanks Jared). I still have to build a bush, get some bolts with an extra 4mm (the width of the adapter plate) and give it a coat of paint.
Bike looks Great.
Have you thought of Vaypors for insturments?
Quote from: roro on October 26, 2012, 06:04:49 PM
Perhaps I'll have a bike ready by Christmas, but I keep adding new mods
I'm going off the idea of track though, I hear so many horror stories
I'm glad to see you're making progress even if slow. :)
What horror stories have you heard about the track?
I can't read the digital gauges without my glasses, and I can't see the road with my glasses on. At least with analog gauges I can see which direction the needle is pointing, even if I can't read the numbers.
Usual horror stories of mangled bodies and bikes - nothing that doesn't happen on the road of course - but I am used to the road.
I'll definitely do some track days though.
Rohan
If you are going to race it in pre '82 post classic you might want to check with someone on the specification rules. I've been reading the rules for "Post Classic Road Racing" here http://mnz.co.nz/regulations/rules/general-rules (http://mnz.co.nz/regulations/rules/general-rules). You might find your bike doesn't comply with the R1 discs on it. Part of the aim of the class is in keeping with the type of bike of the period.
From the rules:
---------------------------------------------------------------
25.2.7 Modifications
Any modifications made to racing machines must be of the type and style in keeping with the period portrayed in these rules.
25.4 Pre 82 Class Specifications
25.4.4 Forks
Upside down forks are prohibited. Forks must be period items. Internal spring and valving modifications are permitted.
25.4.6 Brakes
Front and rear brakes must be manufactured in the period, or faithful replicas. Floating disk carriers are banned unless fitted as original equipment to the bike concerned. Maximum disk diameter is 300mm and maximum number of pistons per caliper is 2, unless fitted as original equipment to the bike concerned (Onus of proof is on rider or entrant of the machine).
---------------------------------------------------------------
It was your post regarding looking for upside down forks that made me start thinking about this and reading up about it. Hope this is useful, there are other classes the bike would probably fit into if it can't be run in the post classics but if the aim is to run in Pre '82 you might need to make some changes.
Thanks, I'd seen those rules, but forgot completely about them. Every time I walk in the garage I am struck with how cool it looks with the big rotors so don't really want to swap back. Fortunately I have another front wheel and can swap over in about 20 minutes to rule compliance if I need to.
The guy I bought the rotors off put a whole GSXR front end on his XZ400 - not inverted but all the pipework is thicker. I've been wondering if I could get a similarly chunky look just by putting the upper forks (between the triples) inside some 40mm alloy pipe. The gaiters and fork brace already make the front end look a lot less spindly than stock.
Quote from: roro on October 27, 2012, 08:37:40 PM
The guy I bought the rotors off put a whole GSXR front end on his XZ400 - not inverted but all the pipework is thicker. I've been wondering if I could get a similarly chunky look just by putting the upper forks (between the triples) inside some 40mm alloy pipe. The gaiters and fork brace already make the front end look a lot less spindly than stock.
Yip putting ali tube in there would work. Once upon a time on bikes they used to do that and connect the head light fittings to it.
Problem with other front ends on the XZ due its trailing axle design is they change the steering geometry. How much of a difference it makes to the feel of the steering I don't know but to get it back to standard using straight forks means changing the rack angle on the frame which I think then brings wheel too close to radiator under braking but not that sure about it. Would have been discussions on the forum about it before I'm sure.
Quote from: roro on October 27, 2012, 05:30:13 PM
I can't read the digital gauges without my glasses, and I can't see the road with my glasses on.
you and me both brother :(
Usual horror stories of mangled bodies and bikes - nothing that doesn't happen on the road of course - but I am used to the road. I'll definitely do some track days though.
I can understand the apprehension but I'd be more afraid of the track days! Some of those can get out of hand if there is insufficient oversight. :-\ First things first - have fun getting the bike how you want it! :)
If you want to go racing make the effort to attend a racing school. Once you actually learn how to ride at near full tilt boogie with a modicum of safety you will be a much better rider on the street and have fun on the track. I know this costs money but going fast without the knowledge and skill could easily cost MUCH more. :police:
I have found that most riders think they can ride fast, some think they can go racing without any thought of preparation other than obtaining the required equipment. The truth can be rather sobering at race speed, and not everyone is suited for flogging along at high speed on a crooked roadway. However, with the appropriate training and practice it is often found to be invigorating and quite fun by many, and terrifying by others.
Fascinating post Roro and great pics of your setup and workshop. Makes my bike look really like the corroded rat bike wannabe that it is. Still, when you look at your own ugly baby, you just see hidden beauty and the wonder of it all.......
Fret, your point is well taken ! When I started racing there were no schools, I watched others and started small , in the 50 cc production class . Don't laugh, I was 175 lbs then and everybody in the class was a bit large for a 50. It allowed me to progress and still stay inside my skill level.
I graduated to a 250 cc Suzuki X6 (T20) and really enjoyed it . This experience paid off in my street riding. Even many years later, when I got back into riding , I started on a CB100 Honda and worked back up through several successively larger bikes to the Vision. What amazes me is that it all came back to me. I've enjoyed comments is 3 states such as. "that old man hauls ass" I enjoy it when I find a rider who can keep up or even pass me . (Ron in Tehatchipi comes to mind, so does Don Minor, or my friend /boss in Mn, Sean . He cheated though, he rode a Yamaha R6 and had raced it at Brainerd, Blew my doors off !! LOL
So , today go to a school and don't ride over your head . I have never fallen at speed ! when I fall off its at 25 mph or even sitting still, LOL
It's never going to be a bad thing knowing how hot things are getting down in your nether regions, but if I put another gauge on the bike it will end up looking like a 747 cockpit.
Found some cool Q-SPS oil filler gauges on ebay. They have a fair range, but nothing that will fit the 82 XZ. I ordered the QOT-06 which is just the right length to tuck in behind the pickups, and cut a new thread to suit.
[edit]
This unit over here (http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=15756.msg145467#msg145467) looks like a better choice
I got the day off today, so spent it making a bracket for the new DCC gauges out of 2mm 5053 alloy. Uses the stock rubber mounts with a little 11mm ali pipe to stop them crushing. These are important as the gauges will fail with excess vibration. I didn't realise till I put some power through them, but they are backlit blue. Thankfully they are both the same colour - it would have been just my luck to have bought mismatching ones. They look a little lopsided in the pic, but they are as straight as a US president. Honest.
Still looks a bit DIY, but once it is powder coated it should be tolerable. Now I just need to decide whether to mount my LED voltmeter between the gauges or somewhere else entirely. I still have a cunning plan for the space where the idiot lights and key used to be.
These gauges only have a single flasher led - Does any know about the diodes I would need to wire it up properly?
[edit] I forgot to mention that I has to get an extension for the speedo cable - from mike's XZ I got the shortest one
Another pic - from the front
That's starting to look like a motorcycle! ;)
Quote from: neil on October 16, 2011, 08:28:49 PM
Helmet deterioration - replace due to age or not?
This question has been around for years. I looked for a definitive answer about 18 months or so ago and settled on checking with a motorcycle safety colleague and head protection expert. His opinion is what I based my prior post on. I'm inclined to trust his expertise and opinions. His background and credentials go back to working with Dr. Harry Hurt and the well known "Hurt report" at USC and are impeccable. See for yourself - http://www.ci-dynamics.com/cv/CVofDThom4-2008.pdf
If you are looking at a helmet that is 10 or more years old, might be time to get a new one, if nothing else, the sanctioning body may require a snell rating which are updated periodicity. If you've ever crashed in it, replace it.
I did a few tutorial track days which were worth every penny. They had 1/4 day of instruction with the rest to riding with an instructor. I would suggest starting with them.
So it seems I haven't touched the bike for over a month. That's not entirely true, but nothing much worth sharing.
Some of you will recall that a while ago I bought a giant pink shock off Raj. It arrived without oil, so I tool it off to a "professional" to get re-built and recharged. That was a supreme waste of money - it cost way more than I thought it would, but then it started pissing out oil before it had even been on the bike. So there's no money left for a new one. Whatever I do will have to be on the cheap cheap.
I was recently donated a very low km R1 shock. Adjustable preload, compression and rebound and looks brand new. There are heaps of these available as people seem to love replace them with $2000 Ohlins units. The R1 shock is one of those double action ones, but it's got a lot of interest on the Kawasaki Versys which has a similar setup to the XZ. Some feel the need for a heavier spring, others not so much - but springs are relatively cheap compared to entire shock units.
The length is similar size - 310mm eye to eye rather than the 317mm stock and other than the 10mm eyes (12mm on the XZ), it will drop straight in if you are game to remove the rear mudguard and move around some of the wiring. The bottom eye is mild steel, so I just drilled it with a 12mm cobalt drill in my press (250RPM, lots of lube). The top is hardened stainless and just melts the drill, so I machined up a new bushing - 40mm x 12mmID x 17mmOD in steel. Both bushes are still thicker than the XZ stock so I'm hoping they will be OK - if they break then the 12mm pins are still there for safety.
It will be a while before I can offer a ride report as the bike is in many many pieces.
This is really interesting. While everything is still exposed could you take some more pictures, especially close ups of the mounts at each end. And of course we will be interested to hear how it works.
Keep up the good work!
Sorry to hear about the pink shock fiasco - that must be frustrating for sure. :(
The R1 shock looks good in there but I guess the ride quality will determine if it ends being a viable solution. :) Is there any concern with reservoir clearance when the travel is maxed out? How accessible are the damping adjusters? +1 on the request for more pics please!
Thanks for the update and keep 'em coming :D
The only way to be sure there are no clearance issues is to drop out the spring and fully compress it. Tricky as I don't have a spring compressor. Looks like it will be fine, there is a full cm or more clearance from the reservoir to the heads.
The bottom of the shock was a mild steel bush bonded/press fit onto rubber same as the XZ. All I did here is use the drill press to drill out to 12mm, and chamfer the edges. Plenty of access to pre-load and the compression damping adjuster. I've added a few washers to keep the shock in the right spot, but this pic shows without. This is actually the top of the shock on an R1, but Versys riders say that they work fine upside down.
The top of the shock has a needle bearing cage with a 17mmOD 10mmID stainless bushing. I could not cut that - even with cobalt drills and my toughest cutting tools on the lathe. It's a push fit out, so I machined up a new bushing - 40mm x 12mmID x 17mmOD in steel. The walls are 2.5mm, so it will take a fair bit to crack that, and if it does, the unmolested 12mm bolt will provide a good safety margin.
I made the bush 40mm as that is the width of the XZ bushing. Again I've added a few washers to keep the shock in the right spot, but this pic shows without. You can see access to the rebound adjuster is at a bit of an angle, but certainly doable
I'll take the bike off the work stand later on and check the sag - that will give me a good idea whether it will be suitable or not
I've been following JohnCements thread and some discussions about the Motogadget M-unit system.
My wiring was toast anyway - much corrosion on the connectors (despite the grease, and cable almost melted through where it passed through by the R/R. Got myself an M-unit and a whole bunch of cable I can think about doing a full re-wire. All connectors will be weatherpac (only slightly dearer than OEM) crimped and soldered and the ignition key will be replaced by RFID.
Despite the simplicity of the M-Unit, It will be located way back in the seat cowl and by the time I wire the additional sensors, volt meter, marker lights, airhorn etc there is going to be a ton of cable in this beasty. I'm thinking of running it all through braided sleeve rather than wrapping but this means I have to plan it all out and get the sleeve on before attaching any ends.
Anyone have any idea what sort of braid would be best? Can I use metal and make that an earth strap?
My guess is the shock will work well, might need to change the spring rate to suit your particular weight. How about a fairing? Treedragon has done such a nice job of figuring out what can be done with the XZ you might ask him for an idea or two.
We're all looking forward to seeing your project come together.
If I do a fairing it will be more towards a Dunstall style than Treedragon's
He's done an awesome job and keeps coming up with new brilliant mods, but it's more of a modern racer look than I'm going for - I want a nod to the classic, but as hi tech as I can
On that note...
I've switched to a classic chrome round headlight (the bucket will be powder coated) but saw this on the net and found myself dribbling - is it too streetfighter do you think?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-Motorbike-7-Matt-Black-LED-Headlight-Fits-Triumph-Speed-Street-Triple-/150979216403?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2327100413&_uhb=1#ht_5397wt_1188 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Universal-Motorbike-7-Matt-Black-LED-Headlight-Fits-Triumph-Speed-Street-Triple-/150979216403?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2327100413&_uhb=1#ht_5397wt_1188)
Very interesting approach, I don't think I've seen a round light like that before. What are the wattage equivalents for hi/lo?
If it puts out good light then it should be fine. Looks a bit , um, unusual.
AU $70! Looks like you have sourced another bargain!
They don't ship outside the land of Oz from ebay, but they ship worldwide from their website www.thirdgear.com.au
If I don't like it, I can always sell it on trademe - I doubt I'll lose
Still waiting for the LED headlight light to arrive, so entertained myself by attacking the frame with an angle grinder.
Getting rid of the unnecessary crappage certainly makes the frame look cleaner.
The headlight arrived, but was disappointingly dim. I have seen fireflies brighter than that.
Then I realised my battery has been under the bench so long (over summer) it had evaporated nearly dry.
It's refilled and on charge so will update shortly. It may be toast.
Ouch, sorry to hear that. :( Was the battery on a trickle charger all that time?
Yes, I hold little hope for it.
Fortunately I have a brand new AGM battery in my spares stash - I bought one when it was on special last year.
The reason it went dry may have been because it was on the charger the entire time. I have tried several small chargers on vented lead acid motorcycle batteries including a NOCO Genius, Battery Tender and a no name brand. They all will dry a battery up in remarkably short time. They all supposedly "float" once full charge is achieved. I now only charge them overnight 2 or 3 times during the 3-4 month storage season.
When I worked at Dunton Motor sports , Arctic cat dealer we had problems with the electronic chargers , not being able to maintain battery's on the show room floor . we ended up tossing them and going back to the old style chargers.
Rikugun
I had a battery dry out on me with my Battery Tender Jr, so now I have it on a timer to only run for one
hour a day.
Dan
A timer! That's a great idea, nice tip there. :D
On a small tight road track I noticed the center stand touching on the turns heavily but so did the Mac pipes and the pegs. Front end dive is significant on the XZ so heavy braking upsets the suspension pretty easily. Take care of the peg placement and center stand as well as up the spring rate to the suspension and that's at least a good starting point.
You need to crawl off of the low side farther , this will allow you to keep the bike a bit more vertical and limit the amount of things dragging. I run the '83 shock on the 4 th notch and the damping on firm. The front end has a spacer on top of the fork spring (or use Progressives) to limit nose diving. I don't like to get too close to the edge on those old fashioned 4 inch tyres!
can hang off all you want...on a tight track the xz will leave sparks all over the track. Far more low points than on the Triumph Sprint.
A dedicated race bike would have the stands removed so that wouldn't be a concern. Not so much of an issue anyway.... Back on page five it was decided the bike probably wasn't going to be raced. :) At least Roro's, haven't heard from Iain lately.
Whether it's creating an AT type or road course racer there will always be better platforms from which to start. Sometimes it's more of what's available, what you like, or what will be a fun challenge. Often it's the struggle that's fun. :)
I'm all for it...I raced mine 6 times last year with the centerstand in place...it's a great platform to start on really. Turns in quick, good low end power, not too heavy, and cheap to fix.
QuoteI raced mine 6 times last year with the centerstand in place
I'm guessing this was not a dedicated paved course race bike?
OK your talking about a track ! Now i get it. I think i would have to remove the center stand . When i raced it was mandatory . It was in the rule book.
The battery seems to have suffered no ill effects from having boiled almost completely dry. Now that I have electricity, I thought I'd work on my rear light. Ages ago I removed the grab handles and filled the holes with CRC marine filler. Still the flashers were annoying me - even though I'd replaced them with tiny tiny ones. Integrated LEDs - thats what I need.
I happen to have a aftermarket R1 LED light in the spares stash. When the flashers go, the brake/rear light on that half turns off. - Pretty cool. So I smashed it with a big hammer and ripped its guts out. The insides are just a fraction narrower than the XZ lens.
The XZ rear light is glued together so I baked the rear light in my shop oven 80 degrees (Celsius) for about 10 minutes to soften the adhesive, and then pulled the red plastic off. I wanted to be able to return to stock later, so rather than drill mount holes I narrowed a couple of bits of Alu rod, then inserted pins (cut off pieces of blunt drill bit) so its exactly the same as a bulb. That plugs into the bulb holders with a mount screw sticking out. That holds a plate, and then the LED array bolts to that - spaced with a few washers.
All together and looking rather stock, but not.
Nice implementation on the LEDs. Will be interested to know how it goes through the WOF since it's a red lens. I picked up some of my parts the other day (yes slowly getting bikes out of storage) and was looking at the rear light wondering how to fit turn indicators. Was thinking about fitting something on the side but this look like a easier solution, well done.
Wof rules http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof/motorcycles/lighting/direction-indicator-lamps (http://vehicleinspection.nzta.govt.nz/virms/in-service-wof/motorcycles/lighting/direction-indicator-lamps) state amber OR red to the rear - this is amberish/redish in colour. Visibility angles I've not tested yet though - they are definitely less than with bulbs
I have no end of trouble with the nazis at the WoF station. Sometimes they just invent rules, like SS brake lines have to be DoT marked (which is not true). I always go armed with a list of mods and a full copy of their rules. It's illegal for them to fail for something outside the rules, and formal complaints can lead to them losing their licence - they tend to backtrack fairly quickly when faced with evidence.
Let me know if you need any parts - I have quite a stash.
QuoteIt's illegal for them to fail for something outside the rules, and formal complaints can lead to them losing their licence - they tend to backtrack fairly quickly when faced with evidence.
An informed motorist - their worst nightmare! :o :D
Today I cast my attention to the switch gear. The ones on the bike were painted by me a few years back, but despite limited use, they had not lasted well.
I was going to get quite a few bits powdercoated, but then I saw on Youtube the Eastwood powder gun http://www.eastwood.com/paints/hotcoat-powder-coating.html (http://www.eastwood.com/paints/hotcoat-powder-coating.html) and thought I'd give it a go
It's unbelievably easy. There's no spray drift, and the part is ready to go as soon as it's cool. If you haven't seen these, they are well worth a look, relatively cheap. I chose the semi-gloss black. It's very close to stock.
The only difficulty is large parts, as my bench-top toaster oven only fits parts up to the size of a chicken
Nice, good to see the results from these. I bought a powder coater when I was in the States at Christmas that doesn't need an air compressor. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004YEAYCW Haven't had time to try it yet, just picked up a used toaster over last week so I have something to cook things in when ready to paint.
Regarding maximum size, have you tried using your oven on it's side? I'm going to try mine like that so should be able to hang longer items in it. It should work that way and maybe better with the heating elements orientated on the side rather than top and bottom. I've considered getting a used wall oven off Trademe, seen a couple go for $1 but don't think the little single phase supply in my garage would cope with it. I think the home cooking ovens are over 3.5KW so need to be hard wired in or 15AMP plugs. Next garage will have more POWER!!!!
That looks really good. Is the finish is as durable (or nearly?) as a commecially done job? What did you mean by "there's no spray drift"?
@Rikigun
The powder is the exact same powder they use commercially. Prep is the key and I have the advantage there because I don't get rushed like a commercial place.
If you are spraying paint you get spray drift on everything nearby. Would you spray in the garage next to your wife's 1955 Mercedes-Benz 300SL? With powder you can. It's just powder till it's baked so you sweep it up and it's gone. You could do it in your living room and the wife would never know. There's almost no smell either.
@Kiwibum
Great idea. From the reading I've done it's best to not have the part in direct line of sight with the element as it can cause scorching, so perhaps some aluminium foil to obscure the element if doing it sideways?. I built a hanger out of bronze welding rod and can hang longer parts from both ends if I need to. It's pretty obvious that this toaster over won't stay long as many of the parts I want to do are larger than a chicken.
I have the same power issue in my garage. I see some trenching in my future.
Quote from: Rikugun on April 06, 2013, 02:03:11 PM
What did you mean by "there's no spray drift"?
Part of the powder coating process is having a static charge on the part. The paint gun puts a 15Kv positive charge on the powder as it leaves the nozzle, the part you are painting is earthed to the gun so the powder is attracted straight to the part. There is very little over spray from this. And actually it's not really painting as it is dusting polyester power on the part then heating it up to melt it on. So in essence it's a way to put a fine lay of plastic on your part :) which makes it very durable assuming the part was nice and clean rust free to start with.
I've wondered about applying this to the two chrome water pipes on the RHS crank case because all of mine are rusty and thought doing them in black might work. Would need to remove all the chrome first possibly, or get rid of the rust. It is also possible to get chrome like finishing powders. I wonder how it would go on the cylinders?
There are high temp powders available in limited colour ranges - once they have cured at 200C, they are good for up to 550C
You can powder straight over chrome if you scuff the shine off it first. (and get rid of the rust). Powder is pretty thin; if the surface isn't smooth it will show, and look like crap.
They would look great black, I was thinking of replacing them with ss braided hose, but now I might just powder them.
QuoteYou can powder straight over chrome if you scuff the shine off it first
Anyone have suggestions on how to accomplish this? Chrome tends to be pretty tough stuff. :) How "scuffed" do you think chrome would need to be to accept the finish - more or less than for paint?
Quote from: Rikugun on April 06, 2013, 07:36:24 PM
QuoteYou can powder straight over chrome if you scuff the shine off it first
Anyone have suggestions on how to accomplish this? Chrome tends to be pretty tough stuff. :) How "scuffed" do you think chrome would need to be to accept the finish - more or less than for paint?
"scuffed" the same as for paint, probably wet and dry sand paper would do it. I think basically if paint will stick, power coating will stick.
Yup, my point exactly....paint seems to be rubbish at adhering to chrome. :(
About the same as for paint. In both cases to properly scuff chrome you really have to work at it, not just wave a bit of sandpaper at it.
You have to take the shine completely off. Sandblasting does the job, but even then takes a bit of effort.
I might be able to get some time on a media blaster and should try it. I'm not working with the water tubes as someone mentioned but rather a set of engine guards I'd rather have black. As far as sandpaper is concerned, maybe go the extra expense and get some silicon carbide rather than the aluminum oxide that's usually on the store shelves.
More DIY powder...
As far as resilience goes, I messed up one part and tried to sandblast it to strip and start again. Using a medium grit and fairly new media it didn't budge it - just took off the shine a bit. I ended up using a high speed die grinder and wire brush - even then it took about 15 seconds to break through to the metal.
The parts look great Roro. I'm really impressed on how durable the finish is too. It's pretty amazing really to be able to apply such a durable coating in a home workshop.
Yes great looking parks. Good to hear the paint is so resilient. Keep up the showing us what you are doing, you're inspiring me to get back into mine.
In front of where the horn was is a plastic thing marked YAMAHA. I lost the bolt hole plugs out of this years ago as both sides have minor cracks in them. I tried to glue them up, but they are too fine.
Made a couple of replacements today out of 6061 Bar stock. So I don't lose them again the plastic is screwed and taped, and I have a couple of homemade grub screws keeping everything where it should be.
Should I leave them as is, clear coat them or make them black?
paint it purple, you fag
Iain
nz
clear so they are nice an shiny :)
Quote from: iain on April 16, 2013, 02:55:22 AM
paint it purple, you fag
At least my bike doesn't need a hook to hang my handbag
QuoteAt least my bike doesn't need a hook to hang my handbag
Can't ya just sling it over the uphill bar end? ;D :P
A while back I fitted an R1 shock. Today I got the bike off the workstand and bounced up and down on it. It may be OK if I was 60kg, but weak enough that I'd end up with tread marks on my arse. Being unemployed (yet again) I can't afford to re-spring the R1 shock so back to plan B which is to refurb a stock shock.
I've got a decent collection of about 5 x '82 shocks (no '83 shocks unfortunately). It is impossible to tell from looking which are good or bad so I'm guessing either go for a ride (difficult with the engine on the bench) or remove the spring and see if it's still damping.
I built a DIY shock spring compresser out of 10mm threaded rod and bits of 90mm x 45mm framing timber (treated). Worked OK, though doing it again I'd go for 12mm rod. This stuff curved a bit and gave me the shits - I could imagine a 10mm threaded rod snapping under stress and impaling me on my work bench like Jesus on the cross. I instructed her-indoors to listen out for blood-curdling screams, equipped myself with a cell phone, eye protection and a large towel for mopping up blood and went for it.
Seemed to go OK. The shock is 20% corroded, 80% dirty. I will powder the spring later in the week, give it a shine and put it back in service.
Is the xz400 shock the same as the '83 xz550?
Could you install a V spring on the R1 shock and get what you want?
@Pinhole
At least on my bikes the XZ400 has the same shock as a 82 Shock, XZ400D one similar to the 83 shock with a damping adjustment, but slightly different.
@ QBS
Alas, the R1 spring is a good inch smaller - Cutting springs is illegal here.
If by "smaller" you mean shorter, perhaps a 1" spacer could be beneficial. Whose authority outlaws spring cutting?
The XZ spring is too long to fit on the R1 shock body.
Spring cutting is banned by the New Zealand government - like just about every fun modification. Their unwritten agenda is to have everyone driving a Prius by the end of the decade
So the xz spring is too long. Please explain again why the R1 spring won't work. Perhaps a proper length spring from from another bike could be researched and fitted.
Spring rate is only one aspect of the situation, as the R1 and XZ have different geometry involved in working the shocks. Angles,distance from leverage pivot, etc. all effect how much spring you need. Things used to be so much simpler.
The R1 spring compresses too easily as I am short for my weight.
Yes some research and experimentation would probably get this sorted, but my current income of $0/week does not support this.
Quote from: roro on June 10, 2013, 06:15:55 AM
...I am short for my weight.
;D I like how you phrase that. ;D With your permission I may like to add that to my repertoire. ;)
roro, I wish you the best in your job hunt. Been there, done that. Zero fun.
I would not fit in well in NZ . I'm no fan of the Prius.
Frame back from the powder coaters today. They have done a great job.
That looks great!
Are those spoked wheels next to the frame going on the XZ?
Spoke wheels are on the long term plan now - on hold due to lack of funds.
They are off a Virago 700 - only 2 years came with a spoke wheel option '84 and '86 if I remember correctly. Unheard of in NZ, so I imported the wheels at great expense trusting that they would fit. Here's what I've found so far...
The front mostly fits: the axle diameter is the same. The width with the Virago speedo hub and spacer is the exact width of the Vision, but the brake rotors are too widely spaced (+3mm per side) and the retaining bolts clip the forks. I'll lathe the hub down before powder coating the hub - there is enough meat to do that safely I think. You will need the Virago speedo hub. 19" so will need a new rim and spokes. Front bearings are the same.
The rear sort of fits: the axle diameter, and the left offset is the same as the XZ (though a wider rim). The shaft drive splines are different, but the bolt pattern the same so just a straight swap from a Vision wheel. The hub is a lot wider and the only way to make fit the vision swingarm without serious modifications is to drop the final gear off the swingarm, fit it and slide it back in. That means draining the oil. You will need a Virago brake shoes and plate as these are a lot bigger than the vision. 16" so will need a new rim and spokes. The axle needs to be lathed down on one end as the wheel is wider. Not sure if rear bearings are the same or not as I've not dropped these out yet.
Both are 36 spoke so hubs are readily available in chrome steel or alloy, but they will need to be custom drilled to make the angles right, and custom spokes as well.
Once you have hubs, you can get them built for around $500 per wheel by Wheel and Spoke Services in Auck.
I've sice found there's a guy in Waiau who says he may be able to convert the vision wheels to spokes (he must have a seriously big lathe). Probably better in terms of fit and not having to import wheel first. - He would need to see some wheels before giving a price estimate.
The lathe required to turn the hubs of the XZ wouldn't need to be that big. It doesn't need to take the whole wheel and rim, just the hub, you would cut the old cast spokes and rim off. Just went outside and measured mine, the rear hub is just under 9" so it will fit in my little Boxford lathe. I've got a couple of sets of spare wheels, I might add putting spokes in a set on the list of things to do since I should be able to do it with the tools I have. It will be a long way down the list though, I would like to look at EFI first :). Garage is getting a cleaned up this weekend, so might have room to work on a bike soon.
Keep up the great project reporting roro, bike is going to look good with that frame. What did it cost to powder coat it? Have you thought about what you are going to do with the engine casing to keep it looking pretty? I've often wondered if clear powder coating the engine would work. My engines appear to have some sort of clear coat on them and I've read that just polishing the engine doesn't work that well because the aluminium on these corrode too easily.
Durr, I hadn't thought of that. I could do it on my lathe, but don't know enough engineering to be sure it's strong enough. Besides DIY wheels have to be certified, where shop ones don't.
$200 for the blasting, frame, main stand and side piece. Would have been less if there was less rust to blast off
I've played around with clear powder - it's not as good as clear coat - it has a sort of hazy plastic wrapped look to it. Clear anodising is the best, but you can't anodise most cast aluminium. POR do a clear coat PC Glisten designed for going over polished metal - I've heard mixed reports. Black powder is probably the best solution. Some bikes have that wrinkle finish I quite like.
Hadn't thought of the certification issue :(. That's a good price for getting the frame done. I read somewhere that the black powder coating was the better option for the engine. Shame as I like the shiny look of the motor. Have you looked at any commercial clear coating or just what you played with using your powder gun? Just wondering if the commercial guys have access to better clear powders.
I've never seen clear powder results from a commercial place. The powder I have is super high gloss clear - the exact same stuff from Dulux as the commercial guys use. So if there is a difference (which is quite conceivable) it is in preparation, technique, temperature control, gun spray quality etc.
It's not that the clear powder finish I produced is bad. It's still shiny, it just kinda looses that polished metal lustre and to a greater extent than spray painted clears do. To me it just looks fake, and I'd rather have black - especially on large surfaces. Your opinion may vary. Best bet would be to get a polished part cleared and see if it meets your needs
Here's an example off the interweb
I see what you mean, kind of looses it's sparkle doesn't it. Thanks for that.
Back on two wheels. Took all day as I paused to do some more powder coating - I'd missed a couple of bits.
There are things that I don't want to do now, like re-fill the transmission but need to remember to do later on. I need some of those "remove before flight" tags
It's looking good Roro. :) Everything looks so clean and new and shiny! Starting to look like a bike again rather than a collection of nice looking parts. :D
I know what you mean about the "remove before flight" tags. My worst fear is getting interupted during an oil change, not getting back to it for whatever reason, then later thumbing the starter button like the crankcase is still full of oil..... :o :(
roro, what did you finally end up doing about your rear shock dilemma?
Quote from: Rikugun on June 29, 2013, 09:28:56 AM
I know what you mean about the "remove before flight" tags. My worst fear is getting interupted during an oil change, not getting back to it for whatever reason, then later thumbing the starter button like the crankcase is still full of oil..... :o :(
I've actually done this in my younger dimmer years. ::) I rebuilt an old XL250. Starting it up and revving the engine bought my dad into the shed asking whether I had put oil back in it. Obviously I hit the kill switch pretty quick and lost the dumb smile off my face. I didn't strip it to check for damage, just filled it with oil and hoped all was well. The bike ran fine for the next couple of years I had it. I tend to double check things now after that experience and I do sometimes make tags for important things if I know it will be left for a while before completion. :)
My budget for toys (actually for anything) is currently zero. I'll look at a new spring or a new shock after I get a job - or if anyone has a good 83 or aftermarket shock to trade, tell me what parts you need in exchange.
I really like the look of the R1 shock for my bike with its joined on canister and I can't really tell how bad it will be without an engine etc installed. I've cranked up the pre-load and will leave it in place for the time being. It's an easy 5 minute swap out if it sucks and I'll have the 82 shock prettied up just in case.
Meanwhile the springs on both shocks will have to become ORANGE.
KB those old XL250's had ball bearing mains and needle bearing rod , They are very tolerant of low/no oil!
Quote from: Rick G on July 03, 2013, 02:04:01 AM
KB those old XL250's had ball bearing mains and needle bearing rod , They are very tolerant of low/no oil!
Yes, shame they didn't make the cam as bullet proof because it just ran direct on aluminium from what I remember and was very intolerant of low/no oil. I bought the bike in bits from a guy who had stripped the motor, found the camshaft guides were worn out causing his problems and couldn't afford the new head to make it all work again. I had a friend put it in a mill and fit bronze shells for the cam to run in, making a cheap fix and meant it would last longer. Just as well due to it's first start on an empty crank case, luckily everything had been smothered with oil on assembly.
Rohan. Apologies for hijacking your race thread. Now back to your normal program. Zip ties and cardboard make great "preflight tags". Also if you are really frugal (as I am) you can easily reuse zip ties by using a small flat blade screw driver to lift the little latching tang so you can pull the tie back out again. :)
Thinking about it I think I still have a stash of toe tags still from when I did search and rescue, They have a string, and a handy little evidence envelope I could use for keeping the required split pins etc that I'm not quite ready to insert
Name of deceased: XZ550
Blood Type: Castrol Power 1 GPS 4T 10W-40
Cause of death: 10 years of neglect
Kiwi , the hotrod type here still have needle bearing conversions for XL \s , cams too!
A while ago I posted that I got a single LED volt meter (Tri-colour)from http://www.sparkbright.co.uk/ (http://www.sparkbright.co.uk/)
Pretty cool but I was not loving the LED look together with my gauges.
Got a clear jeweled bezel off ebay for about $5, drilled out the bulb mounting stuff and it fits right in without any further mods. The unit is already waterproof so it's ready to go as soon as I get the dash built.
Remember discussions the other day on Tigs thread about the temperature meter, that this is just a volt meter too ? I realised with a second volt meter like this one re-calibrated I could easily have two panel lights - one for volts, one for temp. Double cool. For accurate temperature readings (like on the US83/R16 models), it would need regulated voltage but that's no really huge deal.
I contacted Andrew at Sparkbright about getting one programmed with different voltage thresholds - he is pretty responsive. Turns out that their volt meter has a built in regulator and they should be able to make me a temperature measuring version of this without too much hassle - We still have to have discussions about thresholds etc. and they can't get to it till the end of August. That's OK it will probably still be raining in a month.
I was puzzled for a min. then I remembered that you are on the bottom of the world and your seasons are reversed. I'd love to send you a box of our 113 deg. F. weather.
Thanks Rick it must have worked it was a lovely day here today. For a change.
Yeah, and the earthquakes were kind enough to leave you alone in Christchurch and shift their focus to Wellington. Good day all round. Thanks Rick.
I'm stalled for a week or so on my big-arse brake mod as the shop where I buy metal is out of 10mm plate.
Anyone who has put a 7" headlight on their bike with stock brackets would notice that it hits the plastic emblem thingy.
I cut the seams of the bracket with a hacksaw, and then MIGed the ears back on 20mm higher. I couldn't do this if I was keeping stock gauges, but I'm not so I can. My welding sucks so a fair bit of grinding was needed to make it smoothish
A quick wire brush and a powder coat (I love the ability to powder coat at home) and it's back together - but no longer touching the plastic emblem below. I like the headlight a bit higher - I think it makes the bars stick up less visually and pulls it backwards a little.
The downside is that there is no longer any room for the airhorn behind the headlight. I need a new secret place for it.
I was just looking at the pic above and noticed that it had an asymetric lens pattern. I can't power it up at the moment as I don't have a LiFe charger.
Does anyone know if that will throw a left hand drive or right hand drive pattern? I have a horrid feeling this is for the crazy US driving on the wrong side of the road and will fail inspection.
[EDIT]
I stole my concubine's battery out of her car over the weekend. The headlamp does indeed kick upwards to the left, so that's all good. No replacement necessary.
You should be able to flip it 180 if it's right hand orientated rather than left hand? I'm not sure but I think it's only car headlights that have the beam oriented for the side of the road.
Disconnect your LiFe battery and use jumper leads from your car battery to put power on the bike to test it.
Quote from: kiwibum on July 31, 2013, 06:15:54 AM
You should be able to flip it 180 if it's right hand orientated rather than left hand? I'm not sure but I think it's only car headlights that have the beam oriented for the side of the road.
Disconnect your LiFe battery and use jumper leads from your car battery to put power on the bike to test it.
I cleverly did that, actually it's rotated in the pic, but rotating 180 degrees leaves the pattern the same.
I'll have to pull my concubine's battery in the weekend. Don't want to use my posh one. I was just hoping someone would know, and save me a bit of hassle and a few dirty looks.
By the way the LED headlight earlier in this thread is for sale. I liked it, it's brighter and better but I prefer the larger 7" sizing. I'll be on the lookout for a true 7" LED that will fit in this bucket I think
I was unaware there was a bias left or right built into the lens - I would have thought aiming was responsible for that? I have seen "TOP" indicated so I'm guessing it's important in that orientation. :) ???
Does it have any SAE or DOT markings on it? Where did you source it from?
If you look at it carefully, you'll see an angle that goes up to the left and down to the right. I'm not sure how that translates when taking the reflector into consideration. I guess I'll have to try it out.
Many bike headlights are asymetric, and it's kind of a big deal here with the testing people since it's one of the few things they are bright enough to test. It screws up a lot of people importing from Europe and the US and for bikes like modern GSXs and BMWs with projector headlights it can mean $1000+ extra to get a new lens - if indeed they are available.
Mine is from Taiwan, which is a LHD country, but that's no guarantee of anything as they manufacture for worldwide markets. There are no standards markings on it.
Quote from: roro on July 31, 2013, 09:57:54 AM
... There are no standards markings on it.
Your just as likely to have trouble with the WOF inspector because it has "no standards markings on it". Or maybe it is only on the first check for road certification (when bike gets registered if it was de-registered) they look to ensure all light lenses have standards approval marks. If the registration is on hold and it's just a normal Warrant of Fitness they probably wont worry about it.
I stole my concubine's battery out of her car over the weekend. The headlamp does indeed kick upwards to the left, so that's all good. No replacement necessary, but yes the WOF guys are always bleating on about standards markings. They are a pain the arse.
I drilled my headlight for my new Multi-colour LED idiot lights. I figure I can get away with just the 3 - all clear for the RGB LEDs I'm using. Looks a bit like a Darlek, but should be OK one the Speedo and Rev are mounted
LED 1 = Volt meter
LED 2 = Water Temperature
LED 3 = Normal idiot lights - if more than one applies at once then cycle through them.
Thinking about a Macchina Arduino to do the logging, run the displays/LEDs etc. Pricey but the built in EMF suppression, protection and CAN bus may make it cheaper in the long run
Hmm. Are you still going with the very sexy speedo and tacho dials?
Off topic, I had my job "dis-established" this week. Last payday at Christmas. What joy. More time to potter on the bike? Yeah right!
Sucks that's both of us out of a job, and Iain. Good luck finding a replacement. I'll be bankrupt if I don't get one by Christmas and the bike will get sold by the bank :-(
As is always the way with mods - every change buggers up something else. When I raised the headlight to clear the horn badge properly it reduced the room available and the DCC gauges look horrible without some breathing room. I'm also not that keen on their bottom mount design. My DIY mount bracket was cool, but not ice cold.- I was already considering expensive gauge cups etc and a more traditional Triumph style dash.
My new cunning plan is to keep the tach, (but re-illuminated red) mounted off-centre and then to use a tiny digital speedo readout where the idiot lights normally go. Should look pretty good. Images will follow.
Looking good roro. Like your idea about digital speedo. Bicycle speedos that run off rare earth magnets stuck to wheel and calibrated manually are a pretty cheap option. You could ditch the tach and use a couple of shift lights for even more minimalistic look, just a thought.
What did you do to set up bar clamps, is the top clamp drilled? I like.
Not a bad point. One seldom needs to know the actual RPM - it's more a blowing up the engine thing and frankly, I have a built in shift light. Anyone who can sit on a vision at 10,000 RMP+ has more resilient balls than I do. Still I have a RPM gauge and it looks kinda racey so might as well attach it. I need a speedo/odo as it's a WOF requirement, but digital will be fine. I'm making a bracket for it now - hope the specs are right - it will be nearly flush with the upper triple. Triggering is a proximity sensor - no magnet needed :-)
Yes the top clamp is drilled, and some aftermarket adapters bolted through with some spacers in behind. - I'm not overly keen any more. It looks a bit trail bikeish and really wide so not so good for lane splitting - I keep finding myself wanting clip-ons.
Any one got any clip-ons for trade?
I had mine to 11500 , when I first got it, I didn't;t notice that much vibration , but it tried to jump out from under me when I shifted to 2nd gear!
Roro, have you thought about making some clip ons in the lathe/mill? Would be a fairly simple project wouldn't it?
I'm going to have a crack at it on the lathe (no mill unfortunately). Can you recommend a good aluminium (6061 etc) supplier in ChCh that sells small quantities?
Good idea I hadn't thought of that. Certainly one way of working around clearance issues. I don't have access to spline broaches etc so that restricts to certain designs, but otherwise I don't see why not. I'll take a look at designs on the web.
I get all my alloy, copper, brass from LittleMetals http://www.littlemetals.co.nz/ (http://www.littlemetals.co.nz/)
They are fairly expensive , but you only pay for what you carry away and a charge per cut so if you measure well you save the difference by having no wastage. Most other places only do entire sheets and lengths.
No matter what, I can't figure out where to place my Nautilus air horn on a naked version of the bike. I'll re-assess later on, but in the meantime I disassembled the stock horn, powdercoated and re-assembled, using allen head bolts where the rivets were. It sounds pathetic and girly.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on August 20, 2013, 06:31:31 AM
It sounds pathetic and girly.
Does it sound like a weak stock horn or is it more than that like the adjustment screw needs tweaking?
A girlish and pathetic sound shouldn't announce your entrance. A trump from an angels horn is more befitting the ProphetOfDoom. BDC
Not to be rude but why does a race bike have lights, mirrors, and a horn? Typically stuff is removed and simplified for the track.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
It sounds like it needs an adjustment screw but hasn't got one (or a fitting for one). After my Stebel Nautilus dual tone at 139dB, any stock horn will be weak. I can yell louder than this one.
Hellgate, if you read the posts earlier you will see that this is not intended to be a track only bike. There is more than one sort of racing :-)
roro, aquire a 6 vdc Volkswagon horn. It bolts into the stock location without modification. When 12 vdc hits it, it will certainly scream. I did this 20 years ago on my '83 and it still screams.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on August 20, 2013, 03:08:14 PM
It sounds like it needs an adjustment screw but hasn't got one (or a fitting for one).
Isn't there a tiny Phillips head screw and lock nut on the back? Also, nothing should lay against the horn or the resonance will be off and the tone will suffer.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on August 20, 2013, 03:08:14 PM
It sounds like it needs an adjustment screw but hasn't got one (or a fitting for one). After my Stebel Nautilus dual tone at 139dB, any stock horn will be weak. I can yell louder than this one.
Hellgate, if you read the posts earlier you will see that this is not intended to be a track only bike. There is more than one sort of racing :-)
Cheers! Thanks brother, :)
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2
Quote from: Rikugun on August 20, 2013, 05:03:02 PM
Isn't there a tiny Phillips head screw and lock nut on the back? Also, nothing should lay against the horn or the resonance will be off and the tone will suffer.
Oh - There! Thanks I was looking further round like it is on my other horn. Seems there is an adjustment screw missing. That does not negate my need for a loud one in the future.
I've got one with a rubber bulb on the end and no adjustment screw. BDC
I've been obsessing about LEDs since I found the LED headlight a bit too small.
But what about ANGEL EYES?
And that silver thing... Yes, the engine is in the frame. Thanks to Iain's helping hands. I know you can put the engine in on your own, but I wouldn't recommend it on a freshly coated frame. There is still some engine work do do, but that can be done in the frame.
My predator exhaust arrived from DaveXZ yesterday, after an excursion through NZ customs where they charged me tax, import levy, tax on the import levy, biosecurity levy and tax on the biosecurity levy. It's in perfect condition and after a bit of a polish hard to tell from a new one. I have to say it looks miles better than stock, and about half the weight.
Because it's a 4-2-1, there's no way to use an exhaust gas analyser on the Predators so I've ordered a couple of stainless o2 sensor bungs to be welded in before final fitment. Only issue seems to be that it seems it will sit right where the axle needs to come out dropping the exhaust to remove the rear wheel would be an enormous PITA
POD (Prophet of Doom), what sort of rear shock is that with the yellow spring?
Quote from: fret nut on September 11, 2013, 12:32:30 AM
POD (Prophet of Doom), what sort of rear shock is that with the yellow spring?
It's off a Yamaha R1
Check this thread Pg 6 for juicy details
(POD) I've got the same shock I'm putting on my bike. I noticed you have it mounted with reservoir down. Any problems ? I have the shock off of a 09 - 11.
slightly different configuration. I was going to mount mine with reservoir up (facing forward) . My concerns were clearance and the spring being strong enough.
I can get a heavier spring. But if I don't need to all the better. Have you rode the bike with that shock? Thanks,
I haven't ridden on it yet, but I do think a new spring will be in order. Its a common upgrade for the Kawasaki Versys where it's mounted upside down.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on September 10, 2013, 09:14:06 PM
Only issue seems to be that it seems it will sit right where the axle needs to come out dropping the exhaust to remove the rear wheel would be an enormous PITA
Could you remove the lower shock pin allowing the wheel to drop just a bit? A board under the centerstand would allow it to drop further yet. Removing the muffler attachment bolt might allow enough flex to help too. Not ideal I know, but better than removing parts of the exhaust. :( :)
Good suggestion Rik - It's more than just a bit. From my quick mockup the axle is about bang in the middle of the muffler. It's a BIG muffler, so there might not be enough travel even if I pull the shock pin, but regardless it looks cool so I'm sticking with it.
Did some work today on the headlight ears - I cut these out ages ago but practicing with Oxy Acetylene welding gave less than satisfactory results due to lack of skill - especially with dissimilar thicknesses. I'm enrolled at the local high school after 3pm programme which gives me 2 hours a week access to their metal shoppe including an AC/DC TIG. This is my second time ever on TIG and my first time with Alloy. I think it went OK considering.
Plan is to powder these Chrysler Hemi Orange which is the main colour theme for the bike other than black and bare metal
Bloody hell, "The Prophet" strikes again. That looks shithot to my inexperienced eye. I hope my 2nd ever tig weld looks half that good. Maybe you can train me when I get mine, not far away now.
It would seem that orange is the new black lately!
The welds look very good especially considering your experience. :) Welding is a great tool to have in your arsenal and great idea enrolling in the class.
I used to tell my daughters that they ought to take typing and welding classes, one of them did. Wish I had. BDC
It's not too late to learn a new skill. You could take a class too.
I've got some new fork inners coming. I ordered them a bit longer than stock so they should work better with the clip-ons very kindly given to me by Shep1
Here's a quick fit-up to see what it will look like
I stripped my spare forks and sent the lowers off for powder
While I'm waiting for the inners I thought I'd have a look at the switchgear...
I think I mentioned elsewhere that I'd imported a Motogadget m-unit to handle all the fusing, and relay duties (all solid state) as part of my re-wire. It also provides some groovy features like RFID locking, movement alarm, indicator fading, brake light pulsing.
The Motogadget m-unit switches low control voltages to ground - which is the exact opposite of Yamaha stock. Not much to see but here is the LH cluster re-wired to switch to ground. I'm using Motogadget m-button so I have a single cable heading back to the m-unit in the tail. I managed to fit the m-button inside the switch housing (top left in pic) and add a hazard function. The High/Low button was a SPST so I used two IN4004 Diodes to ground both turn left and right at the same time.
Some of the switches have been re-purposed to enable full m-unit functionality which you only get if you have a push button for lights.
Left Hand
Horn=Horn
Turn=Turn
High/Low beam = Hazard On/Off
Flash to Pass = Flash to Pass / High Low Beam / Lights On & Off
Right Hand
Kill=Kill
Lights Off/Park/On = Angel Eyes On, Eyes & Gauge Lights On
Start=Start
I still have to find places for the dash config and m-unit config buttons, and install a new indicator switch.
[edit] Also decided to swap the starter and horn around so if some thief finds my RFID fob, they will press "start" and get a 139db blast on the horn
So the new inners arrived. I'd ordered inners from MikesXS for a 35mm XS650 + 2" They were half the price of anywhere else.
I'd checked the diam, & length, and that the bottom bolts and bushes were the same. It never occurred to me that they would have a different ID so the XZ inners won't fit inside. Theres $200 down the drain. It's hard to do some of this stuff when it's all via email and on-line catalogs :-(
Let me know if you have an XS and want some +2" inners - going cheap.
What are "inners"? Damping rods? Stanchions?
Did you get +2" XS stanchions and now the XZ damping rods won't fit? If so, can you use XS damping rods instead? I'd bet the thread for the attachment bolt is the same on both.
I should have said fork tubes or stanchions, the term inner comes from the Yamaha parts list, but everyone else calls them other things.
Yes, I could try XS dampers, but I'd also need caps, spacers, possibly springs (I haven't measured) etc - basically an entire XS transplant. Easier to just get some new tubes.
Would those fork inners be any good for beating naughty children
:police: :police: :police:
Iain
NZ
I thought about that when the neighbours started up this morning at 8:00am
The trouble with them is they are not thin enough - they are unlikely to draw blood - the sign of a thoroughly good thrashing.
PoD, are the contacting surfaces of the XZ parts to big or too small in size to fit the new fork stanchions? I'm wondering if a bushing/spacer or some machining might remedy the situation.
Unfortunately the ID of the XS stanchions is smaller than the XZ, so my bits won't fit down the hole.
Maybe you have access to a lathe to make round parts smaller. Or maybe that would be a bad idea.
Make the hole bigger. BDC
It would need specialist tools to cut 2mm off the entire ID.
I suppose I could lathe down the damper rod, but lathing the springs smaller would be disastrous. They don't fit either.
*Sigh*
Nothing for it but to order some new tubes I think.
PODna,
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on October 21, 2013, 05:12:48 PM
It would need specialist tools to cut 2mm off the entire ID.
I suppose I could lathe down the damper rod, but lathing the springs smaller would be disastrous. They don't fit either.
*Sigh*
Nothing for it but to order some new tubes I think.
Anything I might have or could pickup here to keep your project moving? BDC
Thanks Bobby, you are a gem, but I have a full set of standard XZ parts. It's non standard ones I'm after. Your support for my projects has been amazing though I really appreciate it.
I rang ForkingByFrank.com and found the cost of replacement fork tubes from them. $269/pair & $107 Shipping, plus I will need to pay $150 Import tax. That's on top of the $200 it cost for tubes the wrong size. Argh!!! Too much for my unemployed wallet.
My backup idea is to make a pair of extended fork caps that the clip-ons can bolt to.
Hi Rohan
I have a pair of 'riser' lowbars that you might be interested in. They are off an RG250. Will be in town this week so could bring them in?
Cool, thanks Not any closeup pics I could find on the Interwebs, but from the parts list they look like they might be just the dog's bollocks.
Except going out for lunch on Thursday I've no engagements this week.
"The Oldstuff" came round today bringing with him some meat and a pair of clip-ons from a RG250.
These are alloy and well less than half the weight of the stock bars. The clamp is smaller than most clip-ons - only 20mm high, so with 5mm shaved off the bottom of the upper triple, all I lose is 15mm in fork travel which matches almost exactly the drop in the rear from using the R1 shock. I can live with that without getting longer tubes. The risers allow the bars to clear the tank and I think they look most excellent.
They were very corroded, so I was going to powder coat them but have now decided to give them a bit of a polish instead.
4 hours later and I'm still on the right hand side minus a final polish with autosol. I'll get some larger gauge bolts and dome nuts next week.
It's been a long discovery, but this is by far the easiest fit of a clip-on that I've seen. Best dozen beer I ever spent.
Always ready to share my meat with a willing recipient! Want feedback on the taste.
Going for the polished look now eh? Movie night tonight, nothing like getting a good polish on yer bar while watching a good movie...
Looks very tidy, well done.
I won't go touch the "meat" comments with a ten foot pole but will say the clip-ons look like they belong there.... ;) :D
I polished the other one yesterday and I have to say I'm very very happy with them.
Height wise they are similar to the 83 so they don't clip the tank, but a little further forward. I have them oriented so the clamp lines up with the triple which gives the bars a quite sporty angle. They are also threaded for bar end mirrors.
I'm still going to mill down the upper triple by a few mm to reduce the amount of travel lost to the clamps, but otherwise I'm done. I sat on the bike for half an hour making vroom vroom noises and found them pretty comfortable. A ride will tell for sure (That's a fair way off), but otherwise this would seem to be the definitive solution for clip-ons. If anyone wants to do the same there's a pair of RG250 clipons on ebay right now for 30 GBP
They look nice as they are but think you ought to paint clip-ons black or polish top of the forks to match. BDC
Good idea Bobby.
After about 10 hours of polishing I'm not so inclined to PC the clip-ons, although it would cover the pits in the alloy. Jap castings in the 80's left a lot to be desired - you sand out one pit and another dozen appear.
Here it is with shiny fork caps though after spending simply ages sanding out old spanner marks. The stock valve caps are pretty chunky, I thought they were brass like the valves, but turns out they are coated steel so they won't stand being bare metal. I like the look of standard tyre valve caps, and I can always get some pretty coloured ones if I wish.
Next job is to strip the whole front end AGAIN and install my newly powder coated fork lowers and lower triple. I was going to leave these as is, as I painted them with POR15 blackcoat when I did my bike last time, but they looked wrong next to the powder on the brakes and frame so decided I just had to re-do them. Once you do some parts as good as new, it makes all the other bits look twice as bad.
Are you going to remove the excess threads from the pinch bolt?
I'll get some larger gauge bolts and dome nuts next week.
Rebuilt my front end AGAIN to install my newly powder coated fork lowers and lower triple. Any recommendations on fork oil? I was using Bel-Ray last time and it was badly discoloured after less than < 500km. That can't be good.
New stainless bolts and dome nuts just for QBS, plus a quick power-up of the motogadget mini speedo.
I have used ATF for 50 years . viscosity varies by brand, from 7.5 to 10.
Profit of Doom, if your fork oil became dirty after only a few Km I think there was some dirt left inside from before the change. It can be a bit difficult to clean thoroughly in places where you can't see well. Must wash out ALL the gremlins. ;)
It wasn't dirt (I am very thorough), just a change from water clear to the colour of oil.
Talking of dirt - I powdered one of my valve colours. Despite cleaning in degreaser, then soapy water, then acetone, then pre-baking @240C for an hour, then acetone again, I still had grease bubbling out of the alloy and marring the finish. Fortunately, where it will be in the shadows so I don't think I'll bother overcoating.
Valve covers should be easy to find when the engine blows up. BDC
Is that go fast orange
Iain
NZ
It's Chrysler Hemi Orange - The same colour as the General Lee.
I'm not sure I like it as much as I thought I would. The idea was to have subtle splashes of colour here and there amongst the black and metal - this is not so subtle.
Holiday trim! Could have a few sets of covers in different colours, just right for every occasion.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on October 30, 2013, 07:44:42 AM
It's Chrysler Hemi Orange - The same colour as the General Lee.
I'm not sure I like it as much as I thought I would. The idea was to have subtle splashes of colour here and there amongst the black and metal - this is not so subtle.
It doesn't look quite right because there is no flag painted on the top. :)
Just a suggestion unless you want your race bike designed by a committee, black and yellow keyboard layout like on the front of the Owner's Manual would make for a nice accent color addition. There was a bike recently for sale that had this combo and I thought it looked good.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on October 30, 2013, 07:44:42 AM
It's Chrysler Hemi Orange - The same colour as the General Lee.
I'm not sure I like it as much as I thought I would. The idea was to have subtle splashes of colour here and there amongst the black and metal - this is not so subtle.
BDC
Pod, thank you very much for the "dome" nuts aka "acorn" nuts in the USA. I feel much better now. Is the angle that your risers are installed at going to be the final set up? Bike's is looking very good. Your grease bubble story is amazing.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on October 30, 2013, 12:57:31 AM
It wasn't dirt (I am very thorough), just a change from water clear to the colour of oil.
Talking of dirt - I powdered one of my valve colours. Despite cleaning in degreaser, then soapy water, then acetone, then pre-baking @240C for an hour, then acetone again, I still had grease bubbling out of the alloy and marring the finish. Fortunately, where it will be in the shadows so I don't think I'll bother overcoating.
What about boiling in caustic soda followed by boiling in a diluted acid followed by plenty of water followed by...
...and just in case some poor soul thinks you are serious, caustic soda will VERY quickly dissolve aluminium and create explosive hydrogen gas.
Quote from: QBS on October 30, 2013, 02:43:45 PM
Pod, thank you very much for the "dome" nuts aka "acorn" nuts in the USA. I feel much better now. Is the angle that your risers are installed at going to be the final set up? Bike's is looking very good. Your grease bubble story is amazing.
We also call them acorn nuts, but only unofficially.
These clip-ons can only pivot on the fork tubes, and changing the angle makes them move forward on the bike - the exact opposite of the adjustability of the XZ stock bars (and I think look cooler). I'll leave as-is for the meantime and see what they feel like once the bike is rolling. Aiming for December 15th
Quote from: Re-Vision on October 30, 2013, 11:17:15 AM
Just a suggestion unless you want your race bike designed by a committee, black and yellow keyboard layout like on the front of the Owner's Manual would make for a nice accent color addition. There was a bike recently for sale that had this combo and I thought it looked good.
BDC
I'm happy for all suggestions. After all I get to be the final arbiter of what happens.
I've always liked Dave's Yellow bike, but never liked the Yamaha box scheme - I had that on my first RZ and hated the colour so much I swapped it for a red/black one shortly afterwards at a great loss.
I've decided against the orange valve covers so think I will polish them out best I can. They are very corroded and have micro-cracking. More shitty Japanese casting. Where were the master swordsmen when they were hiring at the Yamaha foundry?
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on October 31, 2013, 01:03:38 AM
...and just in case some poor soul thinks you are serious, caustic soda will VERY quickly dissolve aluminium and create explosive hydrogen gas.
Oh, I didn't know that. I suppose that is using it undiluted? I worked in a milk treatment factory years ago and we used a liquid caustic for cleaning at boiling temp. Used to clean up the alloy spanners we used on pipework pretty well so I tried an old sidecover in the tub and it looked really great afterwards. Should have said a caustic solution/dilution. We would use something like 2 litres (yes thats the correct spelling in NZ) to 100 litres of water. Sorry for not explaining properly originally.
Got bored with polishing my pits, so started the last of the work on the upper triple.
Milled about 5mm off where it sits on the steering column. This is to minimise the fork push-through to mount the clip-ons and maintain as much travel as possible. I also took off the mounts for the instrument panel - won't be needing those anymore and they kinda looked stupid sticking out there.
Some goodies arrived from the United States today.
A chrome peak for my headlight and a replica taillight for a model A Ford.
Rohan the detailing on your rebuild is looking fantastic. I love the minimalist speedo and the clip-ons are looking really smart. You must be getting pretty close to ignition now? Hows it feel to be back on a 400?
Happy New year to you and yours.
Thanks. There's actually quite a bit of experimentation, fabrication and tech in there to make that happen.
Lots of new bracketry, a microcontroller to handle the idiot lights, the switchgear is all digital, the ignition switch is RFID and all relays & fuses are solid state. Still have to build a new harness to tie it all together. I'll start on that after shims are done (by Friday if all goes to plan)
and the 400 is STILL giving me gyp. Bastard thing. I'm going to have to buy a Corolla instead - I've been stuck up on the hill for a month now >:(
Merry Christmas / New Year to you also
Its no consolation, but your adventures must be heading us towards one of the longest threads on the forum. 9000 views so far
Just because I'm concentrating on the other bike, does not mean I've stopped thinking about this one.
When I pulled the carbs I found the fuel pump in less than satisfactory condition. Given the cost of rebuild kits, I decided to take a different tack and bought a small electric fuel pump. This is a FuelFlow FF015L 1-2PSI. Hand built in NZ. Self regulating.
Don't know how well it will work. Does anyone else have experience of, or thoughts about electropumps as a stock alternative ?
Looks good. I have an electric pump from an R6 that I am going to put on mine. I put one on my TDM850 and it is amazing how much easier it starts after setting for a few days.
Will the 8mm pipe size be OK or close enough to work?
Jasosm has advocated for some of the Yamaha electric pumps especially those from certain year Venture/V-Max and FJ11/12's that use 1/4" fittings and have auto shut off features. Apparently quite handy in the event of a stuck open needle valve.
Quote from: Rikugun on January 13, 2014, 11:28:15 AM
Will the 8mm pipe size be OK or close enough to work?
Jasosm has advocated for some of the Yamaha electric pumps especially those from certain year Venture/V-Max and FJ11/12's that use 1/4" fittings
8mm is a bit bigger than 1/4 inch, both are larger than the petcock. I guess they could burn out through lack of cooling fuel,otherwise the only issue I can think of would be matching hose ends.
Quote from: Rikugun on January 13, 2014, 11:28:15 AM
and have auto shut off features. Apparently quite handy in the event of a stuck open needle valve.
This is a piston pimp - I don't think it will feed fuel unless on. I could also get a crash sensor to cut fuel if the bike goes over.
Reading the installation it seems it needs to go below the float bowls. Not liking that for fitment - I've sent a querty to the company to ask if that's absolutely necessary
QuoteThis is a piston pimp - I don't think it will feed fuel unless on.
Yes, that's what I mean. If while running it doesn't sense pressure building it shuts off after some predetermined elapsed time. I think that's how it works anyway. Also yes re the pipe sizes and hose fitment, not cooling.
QuoteReading the installation it seems it needs to go below the float bowls. Not liking that for fitment - I've sent a querty to the company to ask if that's absolutely necessary
I guess they mean lower than bowl level rather than literally mount it under the bowls? What's wrong with that? Were you hoping to hide it under the rear cowling?
I don't think it has a time based shut-off or they would have mentioned it I'm sure. I can cope with the larger fittings by using 8mm hose and sleeving it at the petcock and carb ends. I am going to mount it in that gap between the coils ( and make damned sure that fuel won't leak on to the high voltage cables). This way it's out of sight and still close to the tank and carbs. Initially the catch can was going to go there, but I'll relocate that to run down the left side of the radiator. Nice, because it will mirror the radiator overflow on the other side.
I got an immediate response to my questions from fuelflow...
My bike doesn't have a return fuel line to the tank. Is this an issue? The old mechanical pump has a line from the pressure relief valve back to the input.
Shouldn't be a problem as this is a low pressure pump, not much more than the pressure of gravity.
Your instructions mention a fuel flow collision safety switch, but I can't find this on your web site. Where can I get one?
Don't worry about this additional switch. They were a big deal 10 years ago but nowadays nobody bothers with them. We do have some in stock but you would be better to spend your money on other stuff.
How important is it that the pump is below the float bowls? I was going to mount near the stock location which is above the bowls up under the tank, and given it is a motorcycle this would be needed for a tidy (hidden)installation. The bowls are in full view. If it has to be below the bowls, it's not really going to work for me I really don't want a pump out in view. Especially as the colour scheme (Yellow/black) is all wrong, and it's made of plastic.
The pump will be fine in your proposed location. Ideally they would be below the float bowls but on most bikes this is an almost impossible mounting position. We can also change the colour of the endcaps to black if you wanted us to. You would just need to send us the pump back and include a return envelope for the trip back.
It's nice when your write a company and actually get a response. :)
This weekend I had a bit of a clean, got rid of the Black Demon XZ400, and used up the room it vacated with a different kind of machine.
The garage is spotless, all my tools oiled and dusted, and I'm ready to start back on my racer which hasn't been touched since November!
Dingleberry thinks my next project should be a nice set of Alloy rearsets, but I'm open to other suggestions
If it was a 5 axis machine you could probably mill up a pretty good looking wife out of a big slab of alloy. And it wouldn't be able to talk back.
Enough pissing about, I need to get some work done on the bike while it's still warm enough not to be totally miserable.
Last time I touched them I'd done the twingle, but not set the shims, so did those by swapping out shims from my spare engines. No pics - you all know what valves and shims look like. I resisted the temptation to do a hone / valve job on the engine. It's working pretty well and that's good enough this time round.
I used new valve cover gaskets, and I curse whoever thought they were a good idea - they are impossible to line up. I ended up using a few dabs of RTV gasket cement to hold it in place on the cover, and then once it was tacky positioned the cover and torqued down.
Yamabond #3 is better than silicone.
Spent the last few weekends pimping my mill.
Now it's sporting digital readouts on all 3 axes - accurate to 5/1000th mm.
Looks ready now to cover your shiny red toolbox with chips. Good work.
Nice. Looking forward to seeing what you mill out.
I found you a project to hone your skills. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITUZeNcxy3k
That's phenomenal, and with a pint sized engine the tolerances have to be so much tighter.
If I was going to build a R10, it would have to be full sized, and a motorcycle or with wings
It seems ages since I've been in the garage, what with the stupid job, and the sub zero temperatures. A little sunshine today so I took advantage.
My levers were looking pretty grungy, so I skimmed off the powder coat with a wire brush, milled and drilled the ball ends, and gave them a bit of a sand and polish. With my first attempt on a spare lever I did some speed holes in the lever itself, but they snapped in half while polishing. Just shows how weak cast is compared to billet.
They don't look as sporty as Tig's, but they cost nothing but a little time.
Cool distinctive look for just a bit of time invested - nice.
I am glad your speed hole lever snapped. I suspected as much. Perhaps 7075 for those eh?
I got all enthusiastic about my YICS after reading this post over here http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?action=post;topic=9982.0. My bike does seem to run better with a YICS, but they keep developing leaks.
So I kinda liked the boost bottles as a replacement, but it was going to cost $120 including shipping for 2 bottles. I thought I'd have a crack at some DIY. Rather than 2 bottles I decided on a double ended design which can strap to the frame.
I did some calculations on volume, cut the pipe with 5mm extra each side, and then spun some end caps and a centre cap on my hobby lathe. Drilled some outlet holes so it doesn't explode while welding, then stuck the whole lot together and ran it through the lathe to smooth it all out. I'll order some threaded brass barbs next week and tap the holes.
Unfortunately I got a bit of chatter, and there's not enough spare material to take another cut. I'm hoping the powder will fill those grooves.
6061 Alloy, 25mm ID. 28 mm Rod. Cost total about $15 - $20 including the barbs and powder
Good to see you are back in the garage - must be getting warmer down there. Looking forward to your evaluation. As always, a great looking job.
I have been reserving my YICs position for an air horn - I shall be well miffed if you make me change my mind. Took the bike down for a warrant this morning. No problems. Then my mechanic said that mine might be the last bike warrant he ever does. He goes in to hospital on Monday for a cancer of the bladder. They reckon its because of his 40 years around petrochemicals. Sobering.
Meantime,
"Get out on the bike and enjoy it.... you never know when you might not be able to". (Prophet of Doom Mk II)
Warmer, Not really it's about 8 degrees 8)
If you are going to buy an air horn, I rate the Stebel Nautilus highly. 139db @ 1 meter - fairly loud
That's 10 degrees more than last time!
I was very keen on the Stebel Nautilus until I saw some very sad reviews about their build quality and reliability. It seems that can be improved doing this neat split build which enables you to stow the compressor under a seat our out of the weather and overcome the weak connection between the compressor and horn.
http://www.fastbikegear.co.nz/index.php?main_page=page&id=15&chapter=1
The other unit that looks like an improved design is the Marco Tornado TR2 - similar style and rating but new on the market and not reviewed yet.
A 6vdc Volkswagon horn bolts right on with no modification. Literally plug and play. 12 vdc into a 6vdc horn is loud, but it's not an air horn. May have to search a bit to get the 6vdc VW item. I did this mod 20 years ago without any problems since then. Old BMW bike trick.
A couple of people have asked for a pattern of my brembo caliper mounts. Just print this on to A4 sized sticky paper, place it on some 12mm alloy, and cut around the edges. Voila!
The milled part is 3mm. Bolts are all 8mm steel socket cap. 50mm from memory. Calipers are Brembo 4 pot gold that I found on ebay. I don't have a model number sorry.
Spent several weeks trying to locate a 6v VW horn locally without joy. Must be getting pretty rare now. All the VW enthusiasts knew it would be for a bike as soon as I asked.
I have taken POD's advice and gone for the compact Stebel Nautilus; the distributor said it came with a 2 year warranty and it will fit snugly where the YICs was. Looking forward to getting it fitted.
POD, how far off is your bike from completion now? Must be pretty close.
Have you considered pattern/replica suppliers for the horn?
http://www.jbugs.com/product/111951111H.html (http://www.jbugs.com/product/111951111H.html)
jbugs is an amazing resource, but based on purchase + freight, the locally sourced air horn was the cheaper option. I might regret that in terms of reliability, so I will still keep my eyes open for a 6 volt freebie horn on my travels.
Today I did a little powder coating for the crank bolt cover. After stripping and polishing I sprayed in black powder then wiped my finger gently over to clear the powder on the raised parts. Did the same with the copper YICS badge, but powdered red first. It will need a little tidying with gloss enamel. There's not a huge profile there and even this good took a few goes.
Not overly happy with the red - supposed to be a deep red but it's more of a brown when over dark colours it seems.
Looks great to me. Do you have a "before" pic for comparison?
What brand of powder are you using? I'm waiting on delivery of a dual-voltage Eastwood and I'll order powders later. BDC
I didn't take a before snap, but it was in pretty rough shape - the alloy was furry and took ages to get a polished look happening.
All my powders are Dulux at the moment just because they are easily available. I'm putting an order in with http://www.prismaticpowders.com/ (http://www.prismaticpowders.com/) for my next lot. They get good reviews - especially for blacks, clears and translucents
Keep the engine, throw everything else away.
That sounds like the voice of experience. Tell us about what was done to the motor(s) you used and how they performed. ;) Did you run 650, 750, or ? What about the carburetors and ignition?
A while back I discussed the XZ motor with Craig Hanson, and he said they could be bored to 650 with new sleeves and boring the cases to accept the larger sleeves, but to get to 750 you have to stroke the crank in addition to the larger bore.
Seems that there will be certification problems with my big-arse brake mod. So rather than hassle I'll put stock back on for the meantime. Trouble is I sold my good rebuilt calipers with the 400.
These are off a bike that was actually being used. 30Yr old lines with age cracks, one piston completely seized, missing copper washers, both covered in something like fork oil or semen and brake fluid the colour and texture of chocolate sauce.
Fret, I've read similar opinions regarding the search for more cubes. The version I remember said the plan was to bore the stock cylinders to 650 and get the additional 100 via a stroked crank. No mention was made replacing cylinders or boring cases to get the 650. I remember the quote, "all bore no stroke". Seem to recall the guys name was Wilcox, but could be mistaken. This was a while back. He ran a successful 750 V back in the '80s.
Eddie Willbanks
Right you are. My apologies to Mr. Willbanks for getting his name wrong.
Hi Mike, It's been long ago that hot rodded a Vision engine. It was for the dirt track so the rest of the cycle parts were not much good.
I could dig out my notes but I believe mine was about 670cc's sleeves and bore, any more would have had to come from stroke.
JT made the pistons and I used Carrello rods 1/2" longer than stock. Megacycle cams, I had Jim make me a couple different grinds.
Alittle bigger intake valves but I don't remember the size. Several hours on Gerolomy's flow bench with 40mm Delorto carbs.
The engine put out about 72 Hp at 9500 rpm.
That project was 30 years ago now.
Craig and I have been life long friends, I've known him for over 50 years now.
He just balanced my Norton crankshaft for me as it's going through alittle renovation.
Last year about this time I pulled the engine out of the Vision. It really didn't need much but I replaced the rod bearings and rings, touched up the valves.
Longer rods, interesting. So is that to lessen the side thrust of the piston skirt against the cylinder wall?
72HP on dirt! I guess that's not so much nowadays, but I remember when Harley Davidson was running the KR flat heads and winning national events, and I would guess they didn't have that much.
If my math is correct, Motoracer8s' 670cc V engine was putting out 1.76 hp per cubic inch. An impressive figure for sure.
Yes, Please do dig out your notes Motoracer8. I wasn't going to do much to the engine except a hone and new rings, but a 100+ increase in cc would be pretty cool
Quote from: fret nut on January 01, 2015, 11:49:46 PM
72HP on dirt! I guess that's not so much nowadays
Wasn't much back in the old days either. King Kenny's TZ750 put out something like 125 hp on the dirt back in 1975.
My last Jawa 500 had about 75hp and only weighed about 75kg. Now that would pull ya arms of hooking up out of a turn ;D
The longer rods give a better angle against the crankshaft and that helps mid range power. They do reduce the side thrust on the pistons some.
A friend of mine, an engineer at Aerojet, made the ignition system for it. It was similar to the std Yamaha unit but with better parts, bigger capacity output transisters to run higher output coils. The advance curve could be altered with a couple of trim pots.
It wouldn't quite pull off the turns with the Harleys, they probably were making 90 HP or more then but were 25 lbs heavier. The Vision engine would spin the tire but the Harleys put it on the ground. The long rods were an attempt to get better traction off the corners.
Ken
An extra 100cc would be expensive. I used nikasil coated aluminum liners, custom made JT pistons, you have to buy 4 at a time.
Another reason for the Carrello rods, Vision rods have no wrist pin bushings, they just copper plate the wrist pin bore. More power over heats the wrist pins.
A Vision with a rattily top end are most likely loose wrist pins.
$1000 to $1500 for another 100cc's for a flexi flier like a Vision is probably money not well spent.
Hmmm, may have to wait till I win the lottery. That's about the amount I have left in my wife's very restrictive bike budget - I have to spend it or I won't get it again next year - a bit like a government department, but I do have other essentials to buy.
And then there is the cost of the 40mm Delorto carbs, increased road tax for going over 650cc and another year without getting your beloved project on the road. Yeah, Nah. - Go have some fun on your bike!
As an aside, I notice on the Learner Approved Motorcycle lists for NZ and Australia, all the British 650's of the same vintage as the XZ550 are approved for learners. But our not-so-tame XZ 550's aren't. The approved power to weight ratio for a learner is 0.15 (150kw/1000kg) whereas the XZ550 comes in at 0.22. (48kw/212kg) The XZ400 is approved for learners.
I just looked it up, and the '72 new alloy XR750 was making 70 - 79 horse power, and by 2008 they were making estimated 100HP.
I remember when Kenny Roberts ran his TZ750 flat tracker and it just wasn't fair to put a 2 stroke road race motor on the dirt. From what I understand he didn't like riding it but some people will do just about anything to mess with other folk's minds. With that much horse power on the dirt it's like riding on marbles. Tweaky quick two stroke power is hard enough to ride on pavement, must have been more than a handful on dirt.
The black XZ400 is a gift that keeps giving...
These calipers came off that bike. The glorious PO had painted the inside of the cylinder - that was never going to work so well - the paint had turned into a gooey mess, taking a full 3-4 hours to extract it a tiny bit at a time. Whew!
Lots of outgassing on these calipers - they need a really thorough pre-bake before PC or you will end up having to do them again - like I did.
Done now and all ready for reassembly.
Those calipers are begging for some personalization. Maybe some tuning forks or what about the respected visionary's handle "prophet"
Quote from: dingleberry on January 04, 2015, 04:39:51 AM
Those calipers are begging for some personalization. Maybe some tuning forks or what about the respected visionary's handle "prophet"
I'll see what I think down track a bit - it's a toss up between being retro-cool and a complete tosser.
Has anyone here tried the Brembo Carbon Ceramic Brake Pads ? They are available for the XZ and not that much more per pair than regular ones. (and half the weight)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-XZ550-RJ-RK-82-83-Brembo-Carbon-Ceramic-Front-Brake-Pads-/131186816051?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item1e8b57f433&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-XZ550-RJ-RK-82-83-Brembo-Carbon-Ceramic-Front-Brake-Pads-/131186816051?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item1e8b57f433&vxp=mtr)
Well, no matter how the work they say BREMBO on them!
From the advertisement description they sound safe enough. In the 70s I had a small race bike fitted with some metallic linings and they were extremely aggressive once they got hot and before that they were rather unpredictable. These Brembo bits sound more civilized.
They do sound worth the extra $5. I'm going to risk it - and perhaps get some brembo logo stickers for the calipers just to please Dingleberry - I think it's nearly justified if I have BREMBO pads :-)
If one remembers back when Roberts rode that TZ at San Jose, that so called 125 HP all went up in wheel spin. Powerful? you bet, but if you can't get it on the ground what good is it.
That's why multi cylinder engines have really never been successful on a dirt track. Look whats getting the job done now, a Kawasaki twin. Less weight manageable power.
You may remember that when Roberts stepped off that TZ, he said they don't pay me enough to ride that thing.
KR at the Indy Mile revisited - 2009
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs)
footage from a spectator at one of the turns - KR solo run starts at 1:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs)
Has the dirt tracker seed been planted yet POD? ;D
Hell no - that looks way too dangerous
Hey here's a link you might like for alloy mudguards and a whole host of other tasty bits. They ship worldwide.
http://www.discovolantemoto.co.uk/
Remember NZPost have an address there as well as USA so may be cheaper postage from our end.
So the Brembo pads arrived in just 6 days from the UK. +1 for ordering from BikeTorqueRacing.co.uk and +1 for Royal mail
I guess most calipers don't show the back of the pad, but ours do and red pads with a big B would have been cool
Disappointingly they look just like any other brake pad.
I'm surprised Brembo didn't include stickers in the packaging.
I wanted to put the radiator on today, but the cooling fins are pretty manky - even after some fettling with a thin screwdriver. Decided to hide it behind some alloy grill - and just because I can, cut the louvres off the shroud.
Still needs a sand and some paint.
Ahh! Brembo pads for the original Yammie calipers! I didn't know they made them. Very cool
I found them at http://www.biketorqueracing.co.uk. Is the quoted price on the website for a pair or for each pad?
GBP 17.50 Per pair. Plus postage
Including exchange fees etc it came to $NZ101 for 2 pairs landed compared to $NZ95 for pyramid, but had to wait an extra week.
I like the clean look of the rad grill. Have a pic of the backside to show attachment method?
Mostly I think it will just sandwich in place and be held up by the bottom lip.
I was just going to use some foam for clearance and a couple of zip ties for safety. That's what the commercial ones seem to do.
Do you think it needs more? I suppose I could bolt the mesh to the shroud, but I would worry that the backs of the bolts would vibrate against the rad and eventually penetrate
I thought rather than paint I'd have a go at the old trick of wafting a flame over the surface of black plastic to bring back the black colour and gloss.
Sanded with 1000 grit, then used my propane burner. It doesn't take long - about 1-2 seconds so keep that flame moving. Went over it again when cooled to catch any bits I missed.
I'd never tried it before but it works perfectly. Here it is on the bike.
It looks really good POD. Do you think a heat gun would be sufficient in lieu of a flame? I think I recall one of my brother's trying that on plastic auto bumper covers and the like. I'll have him update me on how it worked - and long it lasted.
Sorry I missed your last query regarding attachment - did you end up using a bit of foam around the perimeter as a backer? I don't see zip ties so I guess they weren't needed.
I've seen heat guns used on youtube though not done it myself. Much the same thing I think. I'd practice with a spare first.
I put a little foam along the radiator edges - makes it a really tight fit. I didn't worry about zip ties - it's not going anywhere
That's a new trick I have learnt, thanks. Better than black shoe nugget! Looks really good. Won't be long now....open road here he comes!
What colour should I do my wheels?
I've stripped the paint off the XZ400 wheels I got off the Dingleberry. I can't decide what colour
Black, Gold, Orange Metallic, Purple ? I don't know
Also the pattern
Polished spokes and rims (stock), Polished spokes only, No polished bits, Different coloured centre
Any thoughts?
By the way... the rear stripped easily in one go, but the front has been a right bastard to get all the paint off. I noticed that the rear is marked Asahi (The Pentax people?) but the front is not. I wonder if they were outsourced to different places.
BLACK all over. Unless you are painting front guard black then just polish rim.
I think polished edges (sides?) of the rims looks clean. Also if you keep the color off the rim edges it can't chip when changing tyres.
I decided on black rims for a chunkier look. The "spokes" were badly corrosion damaged so i sanded that and the lathe marks off to a near mirror shine. The rest is satin black - same as the frame and forks.
One wheel down, one to go.
That looks great POD, the big oven is paying off. BDC
That looks really good. How durable is the finish in regards to tire irons?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powder_coating BDC
Quote from: Rikugun on May 09, 2015, 08:40:14 AM
That looks really good. How durable is the finish in regards to tire irons?
Powdered rims will mark if you get metal to powder rubbing action. Standard practice is to slip a bit of nylon between them like a cut open milk bottle.
Powder is pretty robust though - many modern bikes and cars have powdered wheels rim to rim
or use one of these...
http://www.nomartirechanger.com/Default.asp (http://www.nomartirechanger.com/Default.asp)
I can't use my oversized R1 Rotors due to the bloody government.
However R16 models have dual unslotted disks the same size as US 83. I'm going to drill these, but can't decide on a pattern. I'm leaning towards "Turbo Syndicator" Any thoughts? Anyone ever drilled a disk before?
Having been mesmerised by your previous avatar, I'd rather go for the Apocalyptic Gyration.
We used to drill discs to make them lighter, then found they worked much better than undrilled discs in the wet weather. I would go for the lightest one.
Drilling stainless discs is a real chore unless you have a CNC mill, as it is rather tough to drill.
I like the sound of the purple squish mitten myself. Did you get a rotary table for your mill or will you do them at night school?
Hi Rohan. I know this is about 12 months late, however, did you fit the fuel pump to this bike? I must have missed that part of the thread for some reason, and just read about it now thinking it was what you were working on, until I noticed the date. In case it makes any difference, I pulled the pump off my 550, the one I visited you on in 2007. My 400s didn't have pumps so I didn't see the need for it on the 550, removed it and never had any problems with out one. May be it lets you get the last bit of fuel when on reserve but I couldn't find a need for one.
Hope that helps. Nice work your doing on the race bike. Steve.
Wow was it really 8 years ago?
Nice to see you back on here Steve. Do you still have your 550s? - you need to post your status.
Thanks for the comment. I have to say that everything takes so much longer than I plan for, so no I haven't done much with the pump except give it a try. I'd noticed the XZ00 lack of pump also and I've tried my 550 without. Like you I didn't notice any real difference so I know what you mean.
I'm keen on the electric pump for 5 reasons.
1. The float bowl of the Weber sits a lot higher and I think gravity feed will be more of an issue
2. My tank is (probably) going to sit a bit lower
3. I figure this will help starting after sitting for a while - especially if the float bowls/lines have evaporated dry
4. I like the high-tech whirr of the pump when you power on
5. It's on my list of possible mods - so I *have* to do it
@Dingleberry I don't have a rotary table. I was going to do it the old school way with marking instruments (compass, scribe, protractor etc) and a rusty codpiece as a centre punch. That rather counts out the Apocolyptic Gyration, but The Squished Kitten should be easy enough. Patience enough for drilling hundreds of holes in stainless - that will be the hard part.
It's only 72 holes plus 72 centre drill holes plus 72 pilot holes plus 72 incremental holes...
How much will a new set of nice drill bits cost? Beware the bits breaking off in the final hole you are drilling too ::)
http://www.allamericanwheel.com/rotors.html for rotor blanks. Easier to drill mount holes than hundreds of holes.
What about turning down R1 rotors to acceptable size or will the drill pattern exclude this option?
I think it's a good idea to plan for the holes to over lap swept areas of other holes. This sweeps the brake pads clear of water or anything else that might get splashed on them. It also helps cool the pads.
Cast iron is much easier to drill and also has a much higher coefficient of friction, which means they are much more efficient for braking, though they will rust if left sitting in the elements.
Quote from: dingleberry on May 14, 2015, 09:16:15 PM
It's only 72 holes plus 72 centre drill holes plus 72 pilot holes plus 72 incremental holes...
Times two rotors
Oh that's only 576 holes. How many holes will a $28 cobalt drill do into a thick stainless rotor? Even if I do go slow and use lots of fluid?
@FretNut, do you have any idea where I could get cast iron discs of this size??
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on May 14, 2015, 07:08:33 AM
Wow was it really 8 years ago?
Nice to see you back on here Steve. Do you still have your 550s? - you need to post your status.
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Time flies, and yes still have all my 550s, have just recently moved them to their final resting place (for me anyway, have decide I wont be moving them again, they are heavy pigs to hump round when not working and have flat tires). Might get to work on them in the next couple of years, have bought a place in Tauranga (currently in Rotorua) that has lots of workshop space so I've collected the bikes I had stored round the country side and can finally have them under one shed again.
After spending a couple of days moving them to the new workshop I'm not as excited as I once was about them unfortunately. Partly due to being reminded just how heavy they are, having wrist problems which will make bike rides more painful than it used to be, and getting interested in building a cyclekart http://www.cyclekartclub.com/ (http://www.cyclekartclub.com/). Having said that I'm sure I'll be keen as soon as I ride the XZ again, my working one has been in storage for 5 years and haven't ridden a motorbike in that time.
Unfortunately the new property has to be renovated to make it liveable and has priority over toys :(
Good point about the Weber being higher, however as long as the float valve is below the petcock inlet on the tank it should be OK. My understanding is your not actually going to race this thing now, so high sustained bowl draining revs on really long right hand corners wont be a problem ;D.
XZ400 rotors are already slotted from what I can remember so you could always fit a set of them. Also like the suggestion of turning down the R1 units.
Hiya Steve.
Nice to hear that you are moving to in Tauranga where the climate is a bit more agreeable. I have moved out of Auckland, down to Whanganui (Notice the "h" - very PC) - Half the rainfall of Auckland and fabulous housing at a fraction of Auckland prices - in fact some of the most affordable in NZ. Great riding so far, but like you I am about to put the XZ away till the chores are done and my workshop is sorted.
Great to have you back on the forum again. I hope that the tornado was nowhere near you....
Cheers, John.
Heres a link to a pdf of EBC catalog you may find interesting/handy reference
http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=8&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CEgQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bikerbrackets.com%2FBikerBrackets%2FEBC%25202004%2520Brake%2520Cat.pdf&ei=Q9RVVaivCYi1mAWS1oHIBQ&usg=AFQjCNFAKt0xnjHgjqmZXA2JncfQfEHHxw&sig2=j4y7HAUg_h2qODAEJTOzWg&bvm=bv.93564037,d.dGY
Quote from: pinholenz on May 15, 2015, 07:06:51 AM
Hiya Steve.
Nice to hear that you are moving to in Tauranga where the climate is a bit more agreeable. I have moved out of Auckland, down to Whanganui (Notice the "h" - very PC) - Half the rainfall of Auckland and fabulous housing at a fraction of Auckland prices - in fact some of the most affordable in NZ. Great riding so far, but like you I am about to put the XZ away till the chores are done and my workshop is sorted.
Great to have you back on the forum again. I hope that the tornado was nowhere near you....
Cheers, John.
Hi John. I originate from Wanganui (that's how we spelt it when I was there ;D), the Para Para to Raetihi is one of my favourite rides. Wanganui IS the most affordable housing in NZ, I found this out over Xmas while researching land prices looking at places we might move too. Really surprised me as I expected it to be the bottom end of the South Is. Glad we have chosen Tauranga over Wanganui, have bought an old factory there so will have lots of workshop space this time round, tired of working out of a single garage. Good move getting out of Auckland, hope you managed to cash in on the house prices before it all slides down again.
Rohan, apologies for crashing your thread.
Cast iron discs are available here in California custom made for about $100 per each last I heard. If you would like to inquire more in depth I can dig out the contact info. The shop that makes them is a brake specialty shop that does a lot of regular vehicle stuff as well as competition vehicles of many sorts.
I've decided on EBC rotors. Good drill bits are so expensive that I think this will end up cheaper, and less chance of a mis-fit than with customs. EBC rotors are stainless of sorts, so shouldn't rust away sitting in my shed, but apparently 20% higher friction than OEM, so meets my goal of every change increasing performance
We shall see - pics in a couple of weeks.
You have to love Amazon & DHL. Bought Monday night, arrived Thursday lunchtime (in New Zealand).
I decided against the wave profile MD2011C. The standard pattern I got EBC MD2011 has dropped the spiral in favour of a symmetric pattern. Lighter than stock but there's not much in it. There are definitely lighter rotors available.
Stopping power remains to be seen - they claim 20% better and I'm pairing with Brembo Carbon Ceramic pads, new seals all round, Goodridge S/S lines
I took my wheels (just the wheels - not the whole bike) to Budget MC to get the tyres swapped over. The mechanic took one look at them and said
"Yamaha XZ550 - haven't seen one of those for years"
That seems pretty amazing that wheels from a relatively obscure vintage model were so recognizable. Cool! :)
As far as I know the only other bike that uses this wheel design is the 650 Seca Turbo. Another rare bike, but memorable if you ever considered one. The 650 has a 19" front wheel.
Don't forget the 400 Seca.
And I came across an XJ900 at my local wreckers the other day. The wheels were instantly recognizable as from the same design stable - shaft drive too. Quite a beast.
Wheels back from the MC shoppe. Bridgestone Battleax BT45 110/90/18F and 120/90/18R
Looks great. Even the cat approves!
They do look good and considerably better than mine at the moment. Nice job :)
Last day of my holiday *sigh*. The handbrake is at work, so I got to potter in the shed.
Finished my new radiator overflow bottle
You do all that on your machines? And alloy weld too? How did you thread the lid, lathe? Nice job. I'm going to use an old beer can for my race bike.
Quote from: dingleberry on June 14, 2015, 05:26:24 PM
You do all that on your machines? And alloy weld too? How did you thread the lid, lathe? Nice job. I'm going to use an old beer can for my race bike.
All done on the lathe except the dimpled top which I did on the mill. Threading on the lathe is pretty straight forward - I can show you if you like. I had to build a thread cutting tool for the inside pipe out of some steel bar stock and the back end of an old 10mm drill bit. For the cap I could use the cutting tool that came with my carbide tool set.
For the lugs and inlet/outlet hoses I brazed them on - too difficult for my level of alloy welding.
I like the beer can idea but you are still going to need to weld/braze it, and doing can thicknesses will be on the tricky side.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on June 11, 2015, 01:23:30 AM
Wheels back from the MC shoppe. Bridgestone Battleax BT45 110/90/18F and 120/90/18R
POD why you choose size of front tire 110?
Quote from: Jirik on July 02, 2015, 09:00:45 AM
POD why you choose size of front tire 110?
I've not seen anyone else on RoV using this wide in the front before.
When I first got this bike with 90/90F and 120/90R rubber I found it a bit tippy. Moving from 90/90F to 100/90F was a big help in this regard.
Now that I'm modding it a bit - putting on a slightly shorter R1 Shock, and pushing the forks through about 30mm I've shortened the wheelbase. I expect this to speed up the bike's ability to fall into a turn. This is not something I really want, so I figured the 110 might slow things down a little
If I'm wrong I'll just change the front back to 100, but the 110 came to me for almost nothing - might as well give it a shot. Not very mathematical I'm afraid.
On an aesthetic note, the larger front tyre looks much more aggressive now - especially on the black rims and drilled rotors. I'll keep that look if I can.
Thank you for answer.
Yes, black rims with this tyres look awesome. I'm going to change my tyres for first time and I have not any experiences with different sizes. Now she has 90/90 and 110/90 tyres and I like to order 90/90 and 120/90.
Such a narrow front tire to be mated with such a wide rear tire. :o
It'll start to look like a Harley!
Carbs re-built thanks to a new accelerator pump diaphragm from re-vision. All the other seals replaced.
I was going to plate the moving parts, but decided they don't look too bad as they are. I'll worry about that again later if I decide not to use the Weber.
Bloody rough mate....you didn't file the casting marks out :police:
Looks nice.
Looks absolutely fabulous. Beautiful job. Must be getting close now.....
As always, very nice work. They almost look too good to put gas in.... 8)
Keeping my drilled theme going at the back of the bike, my new brake tension bar arrived from Joker Machine today. I'd have made one, but don't have a lot of use for a pile of leftover 8mm 6061 plate. I will have to fab some mounting bolts.
10mm longer than stock(shouldn't cause any issues). 130g vs 315g for the stock bar.
Looks nice.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on August 08, 2015, 03:58:30 AM
130g vs 315g for the stock bar.
I'll bet there is a lot of weight that can be lost from the XZ by making these little changes. It would be nice to have a bike that is 20Kg lighter to push round the workshop.
Sexy looking brake stay - wouldn't mind seeing a pic when it's installed too.
The exhaust hangars are over 1KG each ! As an experiment I drilled some holes and halved the weight.
Wow! That looks really nice. How crash resistant do you expect it is? ;)
Looking very sharp. What will you coat the ali with to stop it oxidising?
Quote from: fret nut on August 22, 2015, 02:00:32 AMWow! That looks really nice. How crash resistant do you expect it is? ;)
Crash resistant?
It's about the last thing that would hit the ground - still, it seems sturdy enough.
I'll be powdering before it goes on the bike, but I've got the other side to do first - that's completely different
Wow, I had to go look at the originals to see what they started as. I see you retained the heel rest feature. I've found them to be useful now and again.
Be careful there O Prophetic One, weight reduction can become dangerously addictive.
One could end up drilling holes in holes. :o
Quote from: dingleberry on August 23, 2015, 07:51:45 PM
Be careful there O Prophetic One, weight reduction can become dangerously addictive.
If I was going to get addicted by weight loss, I would have given up pies and lager years ago :-X
Hi there POD,
I seem to recall that you put Triumph gaitors on your front forks. Is that right? Any issues? Were they the T100/T120 size?
Thanks
You can see them in my sig. Not sure about the size, they are a pattern part and were in the bike shop (Budget MC Spares) labelled Triumph/BSA/Norton/cafe racer gaiters. They were cheapish - about $15 or so.
They fit nicely but only for 2 reasons:
1. I have a Tarozzi fork brace for an RZ350 which has a high dust cap. The gaiter sits higher than if it was on the fork lower. It also clips in place over the lip on the fork brace.
2. I have 40mm of fork pushed through the trippple tree. Before I did that it came just up to the lower trippple but rode down a bit with use
They would probably fit a regular fork with a little stretching, but you will need to clamp top and bottom.
That's helpful thanks - I'll do some measuring and have a look around. I hadn't realised that you had dropped the front end that much. Looks like I will need something a bit longer. Good price though!
Another day in paradise. First day of spring Yay!
Just visited the local wreckers (took a fork leg with me), had a look through a big box of old gaiters, & found something suitable.
That looks like a good fit.
At rest, (without any weight on the forks, I reckon I need gaitors at least 180mm/7 inches long.
Your gaitors look longer than that. Have you any idea how long they were?
Thanks
Quote from: pinholenz on August 31, 2015, 05:48:33 PM
That's helpful thanks - I'll do some measuring and have a look around. I hadn't realised that you had dropped the front end that much. Looks like I will need something a bit longer. Good price though!
Another day in paradise. First day of spring Yay!
Sorry, that was with the original clip-ons. Currently I'm running 22mm push through, but had milled down the upper triple about 5mm, so only 17mm on the lower triple. Gaiters are 145mm at rest.
Sorry Pin didn't measure their length before fitting.
Thanks for the measurements. I figure 35mmx55mm x180mm-200mm will give me an optimum length with a standard setup. The closest I have found so far are these, but the lower skirt is not as pretty as those on Cvincers forks.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/1-Pair-Black-Motorcycle-Fork-Rubber-Gaiters-Boots-Gaitor-Size-240mm-x-35mm-For-CQR/32249130265.html?spm=2114.01020208.0.648.xCRpRp
I guess I'll keep looking!
3 pics today - all hot off the mill.
The water pump was a pretty gnarly legacy from the PO. There was no saving that so I so shaved all the lettering off with about 1.5mm to spare. Before and after pics. I'm still mulling over whether to have black side covers or not so did'nt finish this off till I can make up my mind.
Since I was buzzing off letters I took off the YAMAHAHA logo and replaced with one of the Vision badges I got off Ron.
And some more speed holes. I am addicted to putting holes in everything. I am powerless over my addiction. I believe that a greater power will direct me to where to put speed holes.
Hehe! Love it!
I have another Vision side cover if you need any more name plates - and a donor bike if your water pump suddenly springs a leak. Meantime, did that cancerous clutch cover clean up or do you need another?
Getting close to unveiling - looking good.
Thanks Pinhole, I think the rest of the bike will be badgeless - that's the plan so far. I can't think why the water pump would spring a leak, there's a good 1.5mm of material left. There's no cleaning the clutch cover, but it should PC OK I think.
Not so close - if you look at the badge pic you might notice there is no engine/radiator in there - again!
You can make that pump even lighter by removing the stub off the back of the pump that hangs down. It's only there for looks. Another thing would be to get an aluminum brake arm from an older Yamaha motocrosser and then drill holes it it. Mucho lighter.
Quote from: jefferson on September 13, 2015, 10:16:37 AM
You can make that pump even lighter by removing the stub off the back of the pump that hangs down. It's only there for looks. Another thing would be to get an aluminum brake arm from an older Yamaha motocrosser and then drill holes it it. Mucho lighter.
Good tip, Thanks. Do you have have a motorcross model in mind? Hard to get parts here so I'd have to get online somewhere
It has been so long I don't remember where or how I got mine. It seems to me that it was an early mono shock Yamaha. I think I took the stock one to a junk yard and started scrounging till I found one that was the right length and fit the splines. I also drilled the barrel that the actuating rod goes through. I think the motocrossers also had aluminum adjusters that I got a couple of.
Damn! I hadn't noticed that. Nice to see all those s/s hex bolts though.
I am just putting my front end together today and I'm non-plussed about which cable guides are for what. The two in question are the guide on the LH triple clamp and the guide(?) on the headlight bracket just near it. Any clues as to which cables go through these? (I should have taken photos, but I dont think the PO had them set up properly in any case.)
OK, So anyone who can find me an alloy arm that fits will get a prize - I don't think there are any wreckers left down here.
@Pinholenz
The guide on the LH lower triple is for the speedo cable, the curly guide on the RH headlight stay is for the brake line and the throttle cable, though I could never get them to stay in there and just zip tied them.
Detailed cable routing pics on pg224-227 of the (11J) service manual or pg490-494 of the (11U) Service Manual EN,FR,DE
Brill. Thanks for the reference - that will solve a couple of other queries as well.
On the topic of weight, I've always been surprised at how heavy our wheels are.!
I would kind of like to machine the center lip off that is there just to hold the wheel weights. Wouldn't be a lot, but every bit helps and it is at the outer edge of the wheel where it would make the most difference. Have to use stick on weights then.
Yes, a great reason to go alloy rim/spokes. This is not a well trodden path though.
Wheel mods like machining wouldn't be allowed here - they would need to be certed, and it probably wouldn't get that without a registered engineer signoff. Same with brakes which is why I've gone back to stock.
Installed my YICS replacement today. I was going to use my homemade dual chamber bottle, but then I found these - Twin Malossi Boost bottles.
Streuth! They sure are an improvement on the YIC's plastic chrome affair. Very curious and not a little classy!
Originally I had put bezels in the headlight for the idiot lights, but decided they looked more like a stripper's nipples than indicator lamps. Great in the right place, but not so much on the headlight.
This is plan B - screws into a re-tapped mirror mount.
My interest is piqued. Have you tried out the Malossi boost bottles yet? Are they roughly 250cc each or more?
I haven't measured them. Definitely larger than the 70ml yics though. Perhaps 100ml? but spring loaded so they self adjust.
I haven't tried them out yet - there's a full re-wire to do first :-( and the exhaust and air box stuff.
On the plus side the engines back where it's supposed to be.
So this weekend I'm planning on starting my re-wire. Would you guys like:
- Agonising details in another thread
- Pics and a few comments along the way
- Pics only but not till it's finished
- Shut the *&% up we are bored with this thread
"Gory" details in another thread
Keep this thread and provide pictures as you go. BDC
bdc+1
This is as good a place as any, and more appropriate than most, for your "great unveiling". Now that the tension has been created . . . . let's see it! ;)
Me too!
Quote from: fret nut on October 16, 2015, 12:55:40 AM
This is as good a place as any, and more appropriate than most, for your "great unveiling". Now that the tension has been created . . . . let's see it! ;)
"Great Unveiling" were Pinholenz's words, not mine. Actually every time I go into the shed my finish date gets further away. This weekend I started building a mounting box for the shorai battery & starter relay in the rear cowl but ran out of Argon half way through :-(
Made a start on the wiring diagram for the Prophesy of Doom.
(https://iltzug-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mBwKRQRAKZsSI7xiqZf61F9Wkaq9afO2SOQeIsY4Fo_HfJyMW437EEBZy4UM1NkZLsMrqcZTPfHmuSfHWWcrq60vRhubxnV9g3IKTVcaVGRhPTNJ8HX7PnFs9kubaql4EGYfnPna6joABONYkiXOQlWl3GgMVpKLBCUmX3rQ18O_6tpDw3BmvreBZq5PDHuorXGTLnY_z7vfxi0VPGG6bsQ?width=660&height=460&cropmode=none)
Nice work POD. Video camera? 185 on the speedo? Prophesy? Typo? What's with the throttle position sensor? Are you planning injection in the future? Why all the questions?
That is the beginning of a wiring diagram that I can actually understand.... I am also beginning to see why I ride a trusty rusty and not a super modified or a showroom restored bike.
In West Auckland they say "House finished. Man dead!" I trust that the same won't apply to this thread...
Off to the Feilding Steam day on Saturday. First ride out with the Wanganui Classic Motorcycle Club. Lets see if my ego can cope with being shamed with 1. Not riding a BEAR. 2. Not having a beautifully restored bike worth 10 to 30x more than my humble Japanese classic.
I got a tiny Replay HD 1080p lipstick cam last year and have only used it once so it's going on the bike. It has a hardwire function and will record the last 8 hours on a rolling basis.
185 might be a bit optimistic. Fastest I've been on an XZ is about 170kmh but I was younger and stupider and lighter and had a MoT cop trying to catch me.
The latest rage is to name your bike and it's a must if you want it on Bike EXIF. Mine is tentatively called the "Prophesy of Doom" it has a better ring to it than "that piece of &^% up in the shed"
No current plans for injection, I would but for the $1500 or so in parts and would need a dyno I think to get it set up properly. The TPS is to work with my Ignitech TCIP4. It supports 3D ignition advance curves based on throttle position or vacuum. I think vacuum would be better and easier, but I happen to have a SV1000 TPS in the cupboard already. The ignitech guys sent me a 3D curve for the XZ, so I don't have to do anything except flash it on to the unit.
@pinholenz
I don't know why the Japanese manufacturers make their diagrams so obscure but they are a pain in the arse and don't translate well to the actual wiring on the bike which have colour changes, dead-ends, loopbacks, hidden diodes and strange wire diameter choices. Perhaps it's to do with their squiggly writing and overdoses of sake. British manuals are a lot clearer generally.
I can't die after this, I still have another two vehicles planned. I have already bought new O/S pistons rings, gaskets and valves for a full engine rebuild for the next one.
Hard to say what the reaction will be. I tried to join the Classic Japanese Motorcycle Group here in Christchurch. They told me to piss off because my motorcycle was too modern. On the other hand I've had great reactions from hard core Brit biker types.
One thing I never planned initially was Navigation. Found one of these on Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1411369083/beeline-smart-navigation-for-bicycles-made-simple?ref=category). It's a GPS compass that shows you the direction and distance of your target (that is programmed on your cell phone). Designed for bicycles, but shockproof and rainproof so should the fine on the moto.
I love a bit of cool tech
(http://road.cc/sites/default/files/styles/main_width/public/beeline-5.jpg?itok=TCGL5qRy)
Fabricated a small battery box for the Shorai and starter relay- all nicely vibration isolated of course. Show here without the padding, or retaining strap. It only just fits without hitting the seat, and only because I have blanking plates where the taillight bulbs used to be after my LED Retrofit.
I thought there would be room for the motogadget m-unit - but I can't make it fit nicely. I'll need to make a separate box for that.
Battery in the boot/trunk trick, nice. But now where are you going to fit the amp for the stereo? Is that an alloy piece of mudguard you have made underneath box?
Quote from: dingleberry on December 01, 2015, 03:39:36 AM
Battery in the boot/trunk trick, nice. But now where are you going to fit the amp for the stereo? Is that an alloy piece of mudguard you have made underneath box?
Haha - My twingled V at 10,000RPM is all the music I need.
Alloy, yes - no horrid plastic on this baby. It's trimmed really short - flush with the tail-light
Today I thought I'd mount my Shindengen FH0012A R/R in its groovy now location. I've tapped some mounting holes in the flat bit of the frame between the sidecovers.
I have to say it... my life is plagued by half-assed retards and their shonky DIY electrics. This is NOT what a crimped and soldered connector should look like. And this was by a professional mechanic on his own bike. Sheesh.
Tail tidy
The mounting holes for Nology Profire coils are not the same as stock. I cut some strips of 4mm plate, drilled 3 holes and spaced them out from the frame with some alu tube.
Seems to do the trick.
(https://jvrfjq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mCigpGqENHGO-Flo1jKOqjFUZLW6iHhG_0KYdHSKWuwMikgNF-6IAHXC_kuBYwSVkJOqMZjTJIcmfVucquIpROFJIpXmn_zl5--gY9R4ne89nq-mV3NGE14vyMR6ICm5A0sOx1AhWNt6aA4WCUKxENtzbzXPGa8JdjPm0bFrCPAQDhwPHMs7UyJgD7LeO6TzM6rp5N2HsvD96IijS_-pobg?width=495&height=660&cropmode=none)
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on February 09, 2016, 01:59:16 AM
Tail tidy
Nice number plate, didn't realise they did custom plates for bikes here. What am I going to put on my one, now you have used that one?!
Mine is just a vinyl cut fake one. Not that anyone here is going to look it up and burgle my bike, but I think good practice not to put such things on the Internet if you can avoid it.
Yes you can get custom bike plates personalisedplates.co.nz up to 5 long. At $969 I can think of lots of better things to buy for my bike. xz55o (oh, not zero) is available if you want it.
Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on February 21, 2016, 06:16:29 AM
Mine is just a vinyl cut fake one. Not that anyone here is going to look it up and burgle my bike, but I think good practice not to put such things on the Internet if you can avoid it.
Yes you can get custom bike plates personalisedplates.co.nz up to 5 long. At $969 I can think of lots of better things to buy for my bike. xz55o (oh, not zero) is available if you want it.
Yes the price is a bit steep, think I'd rather put the money towards EFI :)
Hi POD,
Just back from a tour of the north of the South Island that included a pleasurable day at the Nelson Classic Motorcycle Museum and another at Peter Jacksons WW1 Aircraft display in Blenheim. Amazing what unlimited financial resources can put together! Felt several earthquakes while I was there. Did you suffer any damage in the last shake in your area?
Quote from: pinholenz on February 28, 2016, 02:38:42 PM
Hi POD,
Just back from a tour of the north of the South Island that included a pleasurable day at the Nelson Classic Motorcycle Museum and another at Peter Jacksons WW1 Aircraft display in Blenheim. Amazing what unlimited financial resources can put together! Felt several earthquakes while I was there. Did you suffer any damage in the last shake in your area?
Perhaps the Nelson Classic Motorcycle Museum would be a good place for Re-Vision's museum project? I've not been there myself.
No damage - a silver lining to having everything packed away in boxes and camping out with relatives for 6 months.
Nice try POD. But NZ is a much farther distance from Texas than Alabama (Barber Motorsports Museum). ;D
Sadly the New Zealand Classic Motorcycle Museum has just announced that it is due to be mothballed next month because of the ill health of its owner.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/76971134/sturgess-to-close-his-300motorcycle-nelson-collection
Hopefully the excellent website will be maintained. In case it doesn't, take time to have a look.
http://www.nzclassicmotorcycles.co.nz/
I got reacquainted with John Britten's masterpiece while I was at the museum - valued at $1 million. In case our American cousins don't know what all the fuss was about, have a look at the naked version of the bike to appreciate its "frameless" design.
http://www.new-zealand-pictures.com/2015/05/britten-motorcycle-naked/
"masterpiece" is certainly the appropriate term, but it falls short of doing Johns' creation anything close to justice. Thankfully, The Barber also has an example.
Would Britten's "creative and engineering genius" be better?
Absolutely!
There is a campervan based on an old truck of some sort at the Geraldine Transport Museum that showcases John Britten's talents. Was really sad to hear about the Nelson Classic bike museum closing. My wife and kids have been but I have not :'(
May have to do a special trip before it's all over if I'm not too late already.
Dingleberry, their site says now closed to the public due to health issues. You can still see some of it on the site, as there are some nice pics to ogle. :o
Maybe you could start a movement to make the collection a national park or monument or something. ;)
I was getting a small amount of coolant seeping out the weephole so that means a faulty ceramic seal.
Haynes recommends against servicing your own waterpump, but it seems pretty easy with the correct tool, which I don't have.
Quickly spun this out of Delrin, and bashed it with a hammer instead of a hydraulic press. Seemed to go OK.
(https://j8kuiw-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mK5RHUeqHSJ4USBYg6R_r6TL7i_9AY3OT853q4nVOrj7gELMQjGdKHHXfutBpEgbPpbuI3XDUxgRWsQ2PpAI40OGLqnAibO8T0JDYpkeDmGPckusLW17ithmg-VhiMjGJHdOEOMCUjLOHU92Sxe5FhOJRGcUQvIl7WYrEQDCIlkTSsDPVFQu01ojc5Jw5mdYhyFGRa521U5xL1SLh3v-Haw?width=735&height=980&cropmode=none)
Here's the right side with the clutch done, waterpump overhauled and the cover powdercoated in wrinkle black.
The pic doesn't show it so much, but the black case makes the jugs look really really big - and who doesn't like that?
(https://iskuiw-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mYW0kYMAsCONxQtf4StA-3vssOzsL9186JclpFv6plukeTLXxOQO3pRNeL7b8VcE1EdrUsZ5x9EA3QFGReOwUhyKT_px3I3z5W1EvgVeqpIcY-_Wu-7kCHtLujltu8JSH3NPmQfyz6kWDQJIytw74pbe17-3uAVvc0ZKExqNzH9v_o0NkoKm3-00ZPLpFJiETrfvjaC4jXmDkTJvXAqCiqw?width=980&height=735&cropmode=none)
Looking VERY tasty!
Big Jugs mmmm. Something about them reminds me of the cybermen from Doctor Who.
Given the choice of doing wiring, or fiddling with the tank, I chose the latter.
I'd stripped this tank a while ago so I could repair the significant dentage on either side, and the top.
Today I used a pneumatic dent puller to get it back to normal. If you haven't used one of these before they are brilliant. Push a trigger and it spot welds itself, pulls, then twists itself off.. Less then an hour and it's nearly factory smooth.
Then I got carried away and hacked off the swoops at the rear. Not welded back up yet, but I think it's going to look OK
(https://jltgaq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mFkcV8tnbN6rbU7oY4qukZt_6JoS5b9k32K06_yMsob1Axi-dooQy5fqwaKRLXZEOpQ0p-fzIt_djqLRFnvfApUbzWaTlScFDePFse4kS1VcwvkZbAbyjPTujIjohYAW2hHVTTcPNFxSPm-E7UL8SiPPsjv8a_KbFaGcID3Pj0QAvST_QoD5NZoZQCPQt4GO2-_qVf8CDwJyUGgj_pjrwAw?width=480&height=640&cropmode=none)
(https://ivtgaq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4muEgNWNtkMBzvNMW8TPDDwg8oqF4dIIL84bAmjohV5c_tGA68B8Ca6Rmln_ZmRtl6aS1Ke78bPChgIUa4bVWTE2NeUQ4QKEohgncDhGr5cCDl139Hn_vq9QJ7iR8tweFxP6D1xiSHv6gHZpAZ4enfJWl3kJqQAOh1ZV9HQxTtFWFAT7qrzmxrRnG7lxhrNhVLp3lROCl_cZSgm0AUqqL69A?width=480&height=640&cropmode=none)
(https://iltgaq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mkeqzMuwas_7-15s_hhHu7k8FxAjw6GYQrKLfu7J77t_lxfW7owVP-asLrr3n_uzdmcHO72Qget0ebcQrNv7Fk3PiAS-IqZ7kFxqINkYxzB4s3evOnQo8h6G_ch1BgIGeXrV5ScOA2V43M71Np1Bmm6ACabkksl_nrWZ5BsYcHNqlYlDFQ8FPe1vtIwy-uG4oXUsEV-qLLPaitQ4okMvfnA?width=640&height=480&cropmode=none)
Looked online at pneumatic dent pullers - saw nothing like you described. What is this magic beast?
I was using a Wielander + Schill AP95
Video on Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2-KkwuLD3s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2-KkwuLD3s)
OK that's very cool. Want to get my hands on one of those. I'll try my hire shop.....
QuoteThen I got carried away and hacked off the swoops at the rear. Not welded back up yet, but I think it's going to look OK
be thinking about continue the new body line across the seat lower edge as well?
Dang. If you weren't across the ocean I'd say we need to combine forces to build a couple awesome bikes. I think you've finally motivated me to take the plunge and cut my tank too I'll see if I can do it Monday.
Quote from: Blake on May 21, 2016, 05:53:06 PM
Dang. If you weren't across the ocean I'd say we need to combine forces to build a couple awesome bikes. I think you've finally motivated me to take the plunge and cut my tank too I'll see if I can do it Monday.
Yeah, wouldn't that be fun. Your early posts were part of the inspiration for me ripping into my bike, so I guess we are even at the moment, though I am growing increasingly jealous of your USD forks. :'(
If you are going to do it yourself here are some more details.
I took the cut to the point of the tank. That's not quite a straight line though to the tail piece but I didn't want a flat piece at the end. I will drop the front mounts about 10mm to compensate and line it all up. You can see i had to cut in under the petcock mount and re-angle it for the new line. I've bent up replacement pieces so the tank will have angles down to the seam same as the original for a "factory" look. Same gauge also for ease of welding.
The idea with the seat is to re-form it with plastic welding so there is a dead straight line along from the tank to the base of the rear cowl where it kicks up. The seat hinge mounts are all gone from the frame (no side covers to hide behind), so I'll have to make up a new hidden hinge system for it.
(https://h1tgaq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mmIneKQGUrvaKWZ2W_rIMzMLnvQIn0Slv_Z46RVrLfO_grrOdnfyz44zBTScUcyla0v_xsJTjqqBB4w5ewoXcFBNk3Ux6P6VCD-RWuJen_QrUG3AKKNqHodc9hKVW51vkMPBIqYAcRMiUuMTkAjSs_a_JQaVu-wMTFQviNCwREA49Z_JDj3usAqce_Pj9UQY8gF3W3UBwYfgrSyTYfLGWEA?width=480&height=640&cropmode=none)
(https://h4jdxa-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mllMQ4FZ1LaObdujseubvi1K0KtrrajrTiaVCohv5yFR-UjZIhTXvvYeN5rqgkm1FEsiA06d29kIc2MZyhbHdbTEBFyWaPDKPonhXXc1knM7UB93BJFsC1a4T2pZGpnosULNzzBHY8s70ZPgu0KybwJtu13eHAu-M3SLrN1FOYbTEf5N8wQso7xG8WAuKDRgrtoLjQN3lKuHihTFtGSHX8w?width=1078&height=808&cropmode=none)
I know it'll be more effort, but have you thought of ditching the stock petcock, getting a universal one with a npt bung, and making the fuel outlet down in the bottom of the front dip? That's where I'm going to put mine, as (1) it draws fuel from the lowest point (essentially increasing the capacity of the tank) and (2) since it's at the lowest point, water won't get a chance to pool there and rust, as till constantly be pulling it out of the tank. Just a thought. I figure since you're already welding a new section on, you might as well fix the cause of the rusty tank.
Quote from: Blake on May 23, 2016, 03:19:31 PM
I know it'll be more effort, but have you thought of ditching the stock petcock,
A good thought, couldn't see how I could mount nicely on the pointy bit though.
I was thinking of a balance tube on the pointy bits. There's fuel on the right side that will never get used otherwise and it can be used for water evacuation (though the best solution for that is keeping the tank full (no condensation). It also gives any crud somewhere to settle other than my carbs.
A vacuumless petcock would be better with the electric pump though - I'll have to give this some thought
Something like this:. http://www.throttleaddiction.com/1-4-npt-petcock-90-deg-chrome/
Get a npt bung like this:
http://www.jegs.com/i/ARP/070/800-8202/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710559777&CAGPSPN=pla&CAAGID=15769068431&CATCI=aud-194671897271:pla-192430938071&gclid=CjwKEAjw1Iq6BRDY_tK-9OjdmBESJABlzoY7KtR5xuClYDY1r3xkW6uPjrrO0en7H4asTyqC307sEBoCYJHw_wcB
Drill a hole at the bottom point on the inside sheet metal, weld in the bung, and attach petcock. That's my plan at least. Since it's on the Inside metal it doesn't have to look 100% perfect since the seam and outside parts will cover up most of it. For my efi though I'll be pullling fuel from one point, and returning to the other side since the fuel pressure regulator is a return style. I'm hoping that keeps any water mixed up so it'll pass through quickly.
Sorry, no pictures of mine right not. I'm at my dad's right now and we're finishing the dry wall in the garage.
Quote from: Blake on May 23, 2016, 04:34:47 PM
Something like this:. http://www.throttleaddiction.com/1-4-npt-petcock-90-deg-chrome/
Get a npt bung like this:
Not NPT of course - that's a USA only thing, but yeah that would work, except I'd loose my reserve. You've got no idea how many times that would have left me stranded. I've been looking for a good cheap capacitive fuel sender, to wire into my micro but no luck so far.
It would be great for a balance tube though with some quick-disconnect fittings. I'll do that if I can find a couple of bungs & fittings before the weekend. Otherwise it's welding time baby and I'll stick to plan A
As a thought, all the EFI bikes I've seen have the return pipe outlet right at the top of the tank. I would imagine for cooling since the pressure should easily overcome the weight of the fuel in the tank. An issue for you do you think?
Having that extra bit of fuel in one side of the tank when the other side has run dry is certainly a good aspect to retain.
Got both the outside pieces tacked in place. I need to get these finished and fully welded in place before I do anything with the inside pieces. That way any heat distortion can be corrected while I can still get tools in there.
(https://jfrfjq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mvMcKy9_zgmqrSzBkHvOdrQNsDAQsAvwg_MAj1DWkgetUv00D7_En3y70xG2fOSJxckQuzkhlBHjgvcaOULADkfXPcnPIScjId0FxpTOWQn4aKemMx7XnnKIxR0axSoFyye0-tDp9uO6taoYPCZbmYubgRNINg-PX3QR4Ej1Q0CFh3-kTpOUGA9WzqM5L4d_0d1KewaudLs-iG-XfRaVXNw?width=480&height=640&cropmode=none)
(https://g1r7dg-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4m22bhwPU14r3X3jnCISyMnezCzS5HhQc_2P132zNKOJiODqn-4rNG4UV6cK1vLghW6RdAr2C3_5z2slcqp7gPaNrl6USu3jG1uZTGWBl6VLEIGlCV_Ivp2mpI53kOYmulfQpHoNKjynYaO1pWMaX9dNQ-b2HLVE5wyfcC4vQia4y8UkifyNmEAt9FSx-RENaISJiDoRLVgXm05-1hNTgYSQ?width=640&height=480&cropmode=none)
Hiya POD,
Thought you might be interested in the discussion over on the General list, "Introducing Myself". Discussion there is about putting a GPZ front end on to an XZ. I have just seen that there is a GPZ front end for sale in Christchurch. I think it is a 2 or 3 pot caliper???.
Cheers
I'd love a set of USD forks, but you can't change brakes without certification. This time round I'm trying to do it entirely within the allowable mods, or at least close enough so I wouldn't get caught.
Good, I wouldn't want to throw a distraction in your direction. Hows the project doing?
Quote from: pinholenz on July 01, 2016, 06:05:58 AM
Good, I wouldn't want to throw a distraction in your direction. Hows the project doing?
I keep getting distracted :-)
Today I traveled the hour or so to my bike to finish the tank welding, but ended up powder coating my shock spring instead. This is just sitting in place - last chance to comment on the colour before it gets put back together next week.
(https://jlrfjq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4m0N1XRpZa2JYc6aoWOwiMob1la13W48zqZ4MknxX6TsyC9mb3doNl3hXls2eenbzYEA0XPplKnD3LmlnJE7ZGLgtbutwUh-g6TLUxEbVfylgoh4TOXQZCtnHidsh3NJav2FLr0x3L1Ngs3NMY8ResFla562EaZRoTIHXdbjzScR9152PydlZId7M2VDH6tgob0iEqyKcseSg6AVJxo2b4xw?width=480&height=640&cropmode=none)
Shock spring looks great as do the expansion chambers (AKA YICS)
Our friend in Germany is now offering his modified Stainless Steel Yics and has gone into production.
http://fivefivezero.bplaced.net/wiki/index.php?title=Datei:YICS_Edelstahl.jpg
Is that colour[GO FAST RED] you powder coated them..????
Iain
NZ
The pink spring looks OK I guess ;) but what's up with those YICS thingies? Have you gone into how and what they are all about? Admittedly I'm too lazy to go through 24 pages of the build post to look for myself.
Looks like an orange colour on my monitor......
You guys need to colour calibrate your monitors. It's red - about the same colour as fresh blood, which is handy since it won't show up splatters when I drive my death machine into those wire barriers they put on motorways these days.
Don't know if you guys noticed, but there's a dirty great reservoir hanging off that shock. It's a stock xz550 82 shock rebuilt with an FJ spring (12.5mm) which is about 15% springyer, new seals, the oil/gas separator removed, and the body tapped for the reservoir which has a bladder in it.
The YICS thingies are Malozzi boost bottles. When pushing fuel/air mix into a fixed chamber you hardly get any in because the pressure in the chamber fights against the pressure from the air velocity. These expand / contract as pressure changes so they fill with atomised fuel/air mixture much more effectively, and introduce more swirl. They also have a slightly higher capacity which is closer to modern boost bottle theory of half the capacity.
Well that's the theory anyway. If all they do is go in and out and look a bit steampunk, then I can live with that.
You must be mistaken. Everyone knows that '82 shocks can not be rebuilt
Quote from: QBS on July 09, 2016, 07:33:07 PM
You must be mistaken. Everyone knows that '82 shocks can not be rebuilt
Well I don't want to contradict "Everyone" but everyone is wrong.
The only thing non rebuildable about the stock shock is the very common lack of a nitrogen valve (easily fixed) and lack of skill with the people doing it (not so easily fixed). Even the welded up variants can be done by suitably competent people.
Don't you just love the challenge of "it can't be done!"
Blood Red looks better than orange BTW
Quote from: pinholenz on July 10, 2016, 04:32:33 AM
Don't you just love the challenge of "it can't be done!"
Blood Red looks better than orange BTW
Thanks
Actually the whole thing is a challenge. I started ripping into my my bike with no experience other than oil changes. One thing I've learned is that ANYTHING can be done, but yes it can be hard finding out how.
HERE (http://www.racetech.com/page/title/SPNV%20Installation) is some info about a charging bolt from racetech
Thanks for thew link. Interesting.
I should probably add that just because you can rebuild a shock, doesn't necessarily mean that you should.
The damping is primitive compared to modern shocks and the racetech guys told me that adding modern valving (like the race tech gold valve) to the shock requires a shaft replacement and so a total cost of 3/4 of a brand new Ohlins shock.
That has been my thinking all along on this. The original problem was how to counter the shaft drive tendency of rear end rise on acceleration and to a lesser extent drop on deceleration. The solution for Yamaha was stiff springing and damping and short travel. It worked okay with slight improvement in the '83 US model which added variable damping. Improvement in shocks since then has been substantial. When the original shock wears out, and most already have, get a suitable replacement and move on.
QuoteI should probably add that just because you can rebuild a shock, doesn't necessarily mean that you should.
Good to know and thanks for the informative racetech link.
Today I installed new eye bushes (from yambits.co.uk) and got the spring fixed in place. I just got sockets of the correct size and squeezed them in my bench vice. No hydraulic press needed.
Other than mounting the reservoir I'm pretty happy
QuoteOther than mounting the reservoir I'm pretty happy
With the stock body work that could be a challenge finding it a home. :(
Most of my stock bodywork has gone into the bin - guess I'll be allright then :-)
Oh, in that case you have some options! :)
My poor bike has been neglected, and is covered in dust. This is not the way to get it finished...
Today I replaced my transmission and oil drain plugs with magnetic versions (M14 x 1.5). They cost less direct from China (aliexpress.com) than a replacement crush washer from a local store. They are alloy so a few more grams saved.
I also drilled and re-tapped the radiator shroud connecting bolts out to M6 so it can better handle the weight of the overflowing bottle.
(https://hfqw6w-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mJWQVqZONDWOi5FUgclGAjiiTw3fOq-pldzAI0eXBI9qURdV3OPo5xYoiR8vukpkHZ5drmyuFI0rdr9rfAD2JQGYtfjccw-pkVAvepq2dsUqgPrkznXkLRYzwxzhkRMoZVkmEioK0Q4NT-102n-v_GW8mJ71yzaLWBDtyE42-h-3INR1Wxbw4h5iDdFwPX5LDqHW83pGqbbwLa8YdNhZq0g?width=640&height=640&cropmode=none)
Originally I was going to eliminate the rad overflow bottle entirely as I am using waterless coolant, but decided to keep one, largely through fears of air bubbles stalling the water pump.
I was not so happy about the fixings on version 1 overflow so re-worked with new cans. Overflow on the right, crankcase catch can on the right.
Had to drop off my shroud and replace it with some 8mm alloy plate on the side of the radiator. I'll have to come up with another plan for the rad grill.
(https://jlr7dg-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4m71pY_4NwYQPzyDjYUjfe285TMlDGHODABJa1P71_IKP5oJxuZD5c1uoRZLM0VgSf0ZKFX2tnIweyg4CtFu2oBQ3XZaRK04Q1ELspS61zTjoepSIuosUBkXbu-u9FER7nn-UjPRE7R3ttnI58lQKZBO7phtMTSyXFr0zOQjXFY0NMYGHKOxsuKZ8HnsP8G1TfUreaj549_B_j2fDZzUcHZg?width=735&height=980&cropmode=none)
(https://i1tgaq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mhot4UtwAJLWLuw_Mchb1PD80vv17_dvTqS5Wi4xVq_TZM6t04KO_DaXxuTl2Rn60TLnsd73ehf5uMFJwPHmr-14xCz6tOGXGLRiREl4HzQt5VjBo_x4kXB-3UvhiREUjEn5vqcDVOgR8E7B0Sh3YEUjWte6uCJ3zmF592H_ToDDbJ_g0JKbAbBPH6rtEKLyEpV381D5iHXLGV7qXDG9ffQ?width=735&height=980&cropmode=none)
Oh Prophet of Doom, what is that hub in the second pic?
The catch cans add a snazzy appearance, and hopefully they will never come into contact with the road surface.
Quote from: fret nut on January 08, 2017, 12:51:13 AM
Oh Prophet of Doom, what is that hub in the second pic?
That's off a Yamaha Virago XV750C. I thought it might fit on the XZ. But not so straight forward. Axle is the same, the disk rotors are further apart by about 10mm. Shaving them off would need a bigger lathe than I have, and i think the calipers would clip the spokes. The rear fits even worse :-(
I should add that the reason I didn't progress with the XV hubs is that wheel mods like machining are forbidden here. A full wheel swap on the other hand is perfectly OK weird huh?
The Ignitech TCIP4 takes a Throttle Position sensor so that there will be more ignition advance when the throttle is partially open than when fully opened. It is supposed to make very noticeable improvements in roll-on throttle performance out of corners. The TPS I am using is a Febi Bilstein Part # 26373 off a BMW.
To attach the TPS, I made a brass adapter. This replaces the nut on the rear butterfly and locks up with a grub screw. The TBS is suspended by a small plate that bolts to a modified stock bracket that allows the TPS to be rotated.
It all seems to work OK, but I would do it differently if I did it again. It's all a bit too tight for easily working on the carbs.
(https://hfr0lw-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4miooIrS-ASgd9cVjOau4z2sOYRZ5Re3le30c8gq6vTrgQnpAZXuJjjHEOHzoWgcy-BFSvV9IjW7I5XT_xYrk7Dl0tdYkDQcKKZGPggMsoeqMh_50bvlxEOEK58UNRjYP4W_BLlyj57x5x93mQd_gViaplJI86wGsdbHWQ6hY_f0v459cz3MAyO58XwlCxp8ZhIGDaU2mPCvvrVXglJLG6NA?width=735&height=980&cropmode=none)
(https://h1r7dg-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mUWYJMDcSt6hvoGr_XN-zxVfdFu05EWdeQew_LlyTLF3oQhhwrjvUmUO4adp9BTQjQuZbiy8MVRLBPcYwOBnsjtym44iZl4vA-hfzNryMkLuz1qtNwqCY9no2iYsWWMLmM4TVhGM6aGDSnWSara-SfrA3SRVIapTHZ9iq9As7hWimTawshvIdAcLK7oqfaWQHHZh9hnOwzuNEskuu98d8yw?width=735&height=980&cropmode=none)
(https://jftgaq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mYbklSLPtkWahBwpIC8Bp7zIHmc5jqnvMTax6hgNgiL87CWiK49vholqhWh7BgWo5l-S5LLFvxWInDsHuZbyucDNc-qC09iI_EwEKRlj2H2P3k-HgrDX7peM66_xnbcaOdMhDn227naTlf9Aw38WtV8zG5-vQkOdWXvw0IvmnjHxp4gsOP_5TTMi0Ax88NmVlmytdylCiUy9jPAOPomjPDQ?width=735&height=980&cropmode=none)
I am so in love with Motogadget.com that I want to marry them and have their babies. These are the amazing new m-blaze pin indicators. A fairly hefty €39.00 but worth every € if you ask me.
Very very tiny, and very very very bright.
(https://i1r7dg-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4m5Ua0bfA3GUqnjBUnC4O2_DUW1Tju3zYRZeOnVR6EoKE5EnPezz6jb9r83SauWjq9AEYk6GaJuzMx9h2CkhShg3KT0hBiTwdAnUGqq3rzJX4YLqIak1vOc1foNJjKQiiUteuLNqPELIBxDzRJrFXzBltuSEwT_6F-_4J8kn57mmyXFAR8nVdsPaSgClGGZEQCOXyEm5CKcF1gqQFS5iPBHw?width=980&height=735&cropmode=none)
(https://jfr7dg-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mvB2K4lPXzTuGrQUSNCDt0b857kzU4Mld7jCzQ-kAb-cPMeZXPOmsOHObHAEVv8oEAZCDczY-HtqfKTNTB9Vl2Gtx6n3mzuB9Jmq7ymJoV8BGo-Ey7bYE8hCZP_qyZIKsjErmkXalGztZsZQYQ0UGo_2d5YxGzSzJiYsMEzQaKaUQFpJ1r-TCqt1uXCW1YMEV2xEwsjywgYwQzpd7T51j-w?width=980&height=735&cropmode=none)
They are so small,,i like them
Iain
NZ
Their so small and bright that I can't tell if their a turn signal or a running light. I love the way you have repurposed the Vision medallion onto the horn cover.
Quote from: QBS on January 24, 2017, 12:40:40 AM
Their so small and bright that I can't tell if their a turn signal or a running light. I love the way you have repurposed the Vision medallion onto the horn cover.
The motogadget m-unit will allow them to be running lights AND turn signals. There's a setting to choose the % illumination as a running light. You can also choose a fade-in / fade-out effect. I've re-purposed one of my switches to be a hazard switch and turn all four indicators on and off together.
The badge was a little tricky. I had to buzz the YAMAHA off with my milling machine to make a nice flat surface first. Because it's curved there's only just enough material there to do it. It fits well though. Another pic from before the engine went in...
(https://g4jq0g-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mEWcbKgrWrNAA5WdyeH85MW_zDUoCfbG-lpZZmbGGj9BxPv_y-4jKbhTkqmVn018hFZOwj-Vk4L8ziMWYUzjhlwMpAqKWO6YmO0mhVE7qk2176xu7pUmS1oJyz5wC6OSd23HUeH0BscvIh2YvgXfD30sBgenz8Ehm7De9BIIiEPbsZ-lFL5mgxSC-R9ZPhH1OGDEzB5dgdM1PE25jLY3ytw?width=734&height=979&cropmode=none)
Looking good! Glad to see the reflectors still on the radiator. I just replaced mine with yellow ones from China. Seems that on nearly every XZ I see, the originals have been lost.
Can you explain how the crankcase oil mist collector works? Presumably this will be connected to the valve train covers and the traditional air filter housing connection eliminated.
Quote from: pinholenz on January 29, 2017, 02:22:54 PM
Looking good! Glad to see the reflectors still on the radiator. I just replaced mine with yellow ones from China. Seems that on nearly every XZ I see, the originals have been lost.
They are near perfect originals. Mine were missing. Can't remember who I got them off.
Quote from: pinholenz on January 29, 2017, 02:22:54 PM
Can you explain how the crankcase oil mist collector works? Presumably this will be connected to the valve train covers and the traditional air filter housing connection eliminated.
That's right. The two hoses go into the collector through the two right angle connectors you can see. There's a tube that runs up the inside from the bottom to near the top which is a vent to atmosphere - stops the catch can from pressurising.
Since I replaced the gauges, I've been looking for a temp gauge that would suit. Everything I found was too big and clunky.
I bought one of these mini 37mm gauges off Aliexpress (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/EPMAN-Micro-Digital-Water-Temperature-Gauge-Auto-gauge-37mm-Supplied-with-Sensor-Kit-Black-EP-DGT8102BK/1370322562.html?spm=2114.01010208.3.10.kLprRG&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_1_10065_10068_10000032_119_10000025_10000029_430_10000028_10060_10062_10056_10055_10000062_10054_301_10059_10099_10000022_10000012_10103_10000015_10102_10096_10000018_10000019_10000056_10000059_10052_10053_10107_10050_10106_10051_10000053_10000007_10000050_10084_10083_10000047_10080_10082_10081_10110_10111_10112_10113_10114_10115_10037_10033_10000041_10000044_10078_10079_10077_10000038_429_10073_10000035_10121,searchweb201603_1,afswitch_2,single_sort_1_default&btsid=c66ca101-bfec-4f3d-9eec-c3d70a15f3f1) for less than $20. At 72mm long it is way too long to insert into the headlight bucket, but I had a cunning plan.
I pulled it apart and separated the two circuit boards, putting a ribbon cable between the two. Then I chopped the back off the case and clamped it on to the headlight shell using the existing thread. I also sanded the top cap to make it a bit narrower. The circuit boards I potted to make them waterproof.
(https://i1tzug-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mohvxlJSFjGZlpZE498hsGu8a4t5F6e7-mp2jcqg70AycMJY40CdoQfhJMFtX2eJbgThgdon8qkQKU74rNGugCaCbbQHbjt606Sskc-ktecVyN4N1yeuErurGQCpWIWjB5NsTB4B1etlnhG3GToDk0CM06A9oSqz23MqcOcsvm2jUzl8OlTEzin7o4V0D4DnfJfia__dxPeogwTeQD8khHg?width=980&height=735&cropmode=none)
Well done. Cunning, indeed.
I'm between jobs at present so have a little time to do some wiring. The main part of the loom is done. This is the m-unit lit up as I test out some of the ends before trimming
Everything is sheathed in Techflex Flexo-PET I was going to use fibreglass braid, but WAY too expensive.
(https://hfrfjq-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mBWnOsqWXKLLOKuJkE52BXqiXCowb4omz9VhAepmqG2IeUSCP0vVc6raySOrLW4pjFhSaRluiSCxBcyMvH8Wx7fzMDgC-U9JyCjVUn_SokoULNUZfSuJkLXIA0SlrV7ksLuZFzyCeVguMA8Dt8SJ_Fk9nGUYfQOeUWpGQ_FnyuvAGlEsOicM1U9O7Ph7qNjTKlLr_GkpsVAwHWNyM5GTVYA?width=980&height=735&cropmode=none)
(https://jlqw6w-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mEqCVs3CWCFfLsDkQhoCEDzvFRsT2h1QOl-SJ0vtg7L8r3MB4b9xz2G4iYbBKvVyZuqiUPG2_DyHzBVzxPRZuf4ZHR1EHhGIxb94Q3-baMfDxX3w4wwvi-QXugU1f1wD2PYxOctLQcaqetY6OIcVNjYqw3IdcieoiwQa-Rm97r83I58qXkp4AuZ3Q5dJkR_xkVoe0ABaawyBLt020glNheQ?width=735&height=980&cropmode=none)
I needed to find somewhere for the speedo config button. Since I have bar-end mirrors I have a useless mirror mount. Drilled and tapped (M12 Fine) to fit a waterproof switch and drilled in an exit hole for the wires.
(https://h8kuiw-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mDYEGn1BtBhEwutI46qioVz7mAvHWGdrGiVzBboWOS48S-9-bwV5YcrZvlYXIsqN05IHKzo4ud1WznF2amWwmLHRcQjXQQYTnS7ZSYs_qO1tGK5Key37wJeuHqvbBPMgG7eEalpl5t5aMvSYDQJlz4z5QmzCkTCDqAz1-ybKqc3ArpUMv-Z-S4iZLmtoCmjgA9pOk9X_ouGh85e4FWwBg1Q?width=735&height=980&cropmode=none)
That's a good use of an otherwise abandoned mounting location. A tidy installation indeed. :)
This is a Futaba T123 Thermo Radiator cap. Measured in Celcius only so may not suit visionaries in Burma and Liberia who still use Degrees F. A perfect fit for the XZ, but obviously without the stock radiator shroud. Measures about 3 or 4 degrees hot.
(https://i1sqga-ch3301.files.1drv.com/y4mgcNAsIRL1vcNmmjmfkSes0PXlLx_oIKTQvdRf-B522glYytwBlIFMi-EDD3nSsLDMhJmMMKMeWXg0CGBsevdpQAH_hEPJthZl3_IKnsQi-uR4buE6E0QlViYuUMFqdPZyZaPi-GJJaYTbCSibIfFAJhCfgLzmee1HO6_UuEKs4JgiI1mh2GXr68shzyZJw2dF0b5I8UPR0i9LcM2ab5TmA?width=735&height=980&cropmode=none)
QuoteMeasures about 3 or 4 degrees hot.
What did you compare it to? Oh, and is that 3 or 4 degrees F? :P
Quote from: Rikugun on June 20, 2017, 12:35:40 PM
What did you compare it to? Oh, and is that 3 or 4 degrees F? :P
I stuck it in boiling water and it went to just under 105. Degrees C of course - I'm no Liberian.
Hi POD,
Back in June 2013 you were messing around with your monoshock and took the spring off to test whether the damper was still working. How did you test that? Just pressing the piston down on the concrete floor and seeing how resistant it was?
Thanks
Yes, that was pretty much it.
Without the spring it flops in and out against my bodyweight without resistance if it's dried out, or will take about 2 seconds when the damping is working
Brilliant. I will start making a spring compressor this week, as illustrated by you (thanks) with the 12mm threaded rod as you suggest. Being a non-engineer, I will probably just clean it up and repaint the spring if the damper is OK. Its off an XZ400 and I am unsure of its year or history apart from the frame number. 14X 151354
As far as I can see, you are the only person in the history of this forum to rebuild an '82 XZ monoshock. I can find what you did, but not how you did it. Is that something that I have missed?
Cheers
I did my own bushes and powder coated the spring, but it wasn't me that added the gas nipple and reservoir. It was originally the big pink shock (http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=12950.msg122043#msg122043) I bought off Raj and it was done that way when I got it. I then had it rebuilt by a local suspension guy (who disappeared after the earthquakes) because it was leaking.
If you want yours done give Robert Taylor/Kiwi Suspension Solutions Ltd a call <sales@kss.net.nz>
Assuming the shaft is okay allow around $300 to $350 all up. That's a new seal head assembly, piston ring, gas charge nipple, dividing gas piston o ring and piston ring, oil, gas, labour. They can do the welded up shocks as well as the removable cap types.
Today I wired up the Motogadget RFID m-Lock.
This replaces the ignition key, just a swipe of my fob,phone or ID card to turn it on or off. Nice.
More tech is better. Do you have a cloaking device or anti gravity yet? ;)
No, but I'll have navigation. Does that count?
Very clean install - looks good.
Some bracket fabrikation this week before I go back to work after the summer holls (with temps around the 30-35 mark).
- K&N electric fuel pump
- Ignitech TCIP4
Great link PoD. Interesting read. I notice too that in Chapter 8 (Safety Gear) Section .2m the
"MNZ strongly recommends, on advice from manufacturers, that you do not use a helmet for more than three years.
Make sure your helmet is not dropped, or subjected to abuse in any way. If this happens have it re-examined by a qualified person or replace it"
Translated to weekend riders, then the imponding by track officials of any helmet over 10 years old, sounds common sense.
Time for me to to get a new hat! Thanks for the reminder.
A secret chamber in the front of the airbox - aluminium sealed with RTV. This is a resting place for some of the massive waterproof connectors.
Being the first day over 10 degrees in about a decade, I spend the day in the garage.
Built some new mounts for the stock seat pad, and took a bevel off the bottom to match the line of the tank.
Drilled a hole in the tank for the fuel sight glass.
Best I pick up my welding skills before I try to stick them together.
From www.billetproofdesigns.com $40
If that doesn't work out well the hole could be used as a place to mount a fuel level sensor. Or not.
I've hardly touched the bike recently. Found a bit of spare time so recovered my seat in fine italian leather
I don't see any number plates, or does the bike get a nice fairing?
No, no fairing it will be completely nekkid. It does have a plate though...
Well, please excuse me for misunderstanding the title of this discussion. (Going Racing) as I was referring to the plates that usually carry your racing number, one in the front and one on each side. Your bike looks directed toward the street rather than the track (racers don't have license plates and tail lights). Aside from my misunderstanding, the discussion has been a good one. Thanks.
I believe POD's thinking has "evolved" since this project was began.
I agree, Art, and POD is not the only one to have a project dictate an 'alternative direction' of it's own accord. :-[
Quote from: fret not on March 17, 2019, 02:11:29 AM
Well, please excuse me for misunderstanding the title of this discussion. (Going Racing) as I was referring to the plates that usually carry your racing number, one in the front and one on each side. Your bike looks directed toward the street rather than the track (racers don't have license plates and tail lights). Aside from my misunderstanding, the discussion has been a good one. Thanks.
Sorry for the confusion. We decided to go racing, and I was going to build a whole other race bike. Then mine got smashed to bits in an earthquake and I only wanted to build one. Decided to do a sort of hybrid road racer, that would be good for the occasional track day. All the road equipment can be removed in about 10 minutes.
Mostly though I'll use this for geriatric hooliganising around town - if I ever get it finished - it seems to go on forever.