Hello.so,the problem is,that i cant run my bike normaly.when i accelerate throttle engine just want to stop.anyway, in N or in gears.to get some speed i need to shake throttle forward backwards for atleast some movements. and i really dont know what could be the problem.i cleaned my carbs,new spark plugs,new inline filter.everithing should run fine.but it isn't >:( it is impossible to drive normaly,because to get atleast some speed it takes soo long time,and if i try to accelerate faster,engine just loose power,and want to turn off
hope u can give me some advice.
please sorry for my bad english :angel:
Hello, Guerrero, where are you? What is your native language? I'm guessing Spanish.
There are many possible problems, leaking air at the intake boots, failed fuel pump, plugged fuel line, weak battery, leaking vacuum hose, or other problem.
some better understanding of your symptoms will help to diagnose your problem.
Partially blocked secondary/power circuits in one or both carbs? Sorry to say, but sounds like your carbs just aren't clean enough to get the job done.
My battery is almost new.just changed vacuum tube to petcock.last year,i discovered that my bike did not have air flapp,so i bought it and put on.
Main problem is,that when i try to accelerate it like loose power,and start to brake with engine.( the feel is like this)and if i keep trying accelerate steady for long time,bike just stops.my carbs where cleaned at servise last year.but unfortunately this problem did not disappear.and one more strange thing,that instead of some 5 L per 100km of fuel,myne is eating some 8 or 9 l of fuel.
Im from Baltic,Latvia.sorry,again if hard to understand my language
My poor grasp of Spanish will not help.
You are doing well with describing your problem.
The carburetors are very sensitive to any residue or foreign matter in them and must be thoroughly cleaned with all passages cleared with compressed air, and a good in line fuel filter installed to keep any foreign matter out of the carburetors. Only when the carburetors are clean can they be adjusted properly so the bike can operate normally. There are a lot of passages and holes in the carburetors and some are difficult or impossible to see but they must flow fuel and air or they don't work.
thank you,i understand.i just ordered and got from ebay,i think from U.S.A golden inline filter.and my carbs were cleaned not just by hand but with ultra sound.so they are realy clean) atleast,should be
Sorry your carbs have plugged passage ways and or air leaks. Even with ultra sonic cleaning (which I believe is a waste of time and I don't use it ) Cleaning Vision carbs is not easy . Some have better luck than others.
ok,and if it is like that,what should i do?is it possible to repair,not changing to new carbs?
Quote from: Guerrero on May 05, 2013, 01:35:11 AM
last year,i discovered that my bike did not have air flapp,so i bought it and put on....when i try to accelerate it like loose power,...if i keep trying accelerate steady for long time,bike just stops....instead of some 5 L per 100km of fuel,myne is eating some 8 or 9 l of fuel.
Did your troubles begin right after installing the flapper?
no.trouble was before.and carbs i cleaned before i installed flap.and actually i hoped that problem is because i didnot had it installed.and now it would work,but unfortunately - no :-[
Rick G is a mechanic specializing in carburetors, so read what he said about having plugged passages in your carburetors. They need to be cleared with compressed air, and some of the passages are very small, so blow air both directions in each passage when possible. Continue trying to clear the passages until they are clear and pass fuel and air freely.
From your description you are not getting enough fuel into the motor.
ok,thank you.i will try that.but why my fuel usage is so big?about 8-9 L per 100 km.i think it is 30mpg US
Are both your cylinders firing? The RPM limiter may be failed and cutting off the rear cylinder.
im sorry what does firing means?u mean working properly? :-[ dunno about RPM limiter,but on neutral and in gears rpm gos till maximum.and with that is no problems,only it takes time while it gos up there.because i cant just open throttle and fly.it will start to ,dont know how to say, gag or something
Quoteim sorry what does firing means?u mean working properly?
Yes. :)
Admittedly it's difficult to understand your symptoms accurately due to the language barrier but Walt's suggestion seems like it might fit. Plus you don't need to remove the carbs to try it! ;)
On the right side of the bike is an ignition module with two sets of wires going to it. The yellow and black wire can be cut to disable a feature that sometimes causes running problems.
so i just need to cut them off?yealow and black?hmm very interesting idea :)ok,i will get to my vision in a few days only,but it will be first thing,to try.thank's for advice.hope it will help :-\ and if i cut them and everithing is running good,should i just leave it like that? and if there is no change,i should probably connect tehm again?
Guerrero...
Do not cut the wire!!! Remove the back cover from the gauges (speedo/tac) and disconnect the wire from there...wrap the end in electrical tape and put the cover back on.
I do believe that Rick G is on the right path... the carbs are still not completely clean and will need futher work and must be synced, once reinstalled... 8)
8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)
Tiger, why not cut the wire? Is it just personal preference to do the extra work of dismantling the gages? If it's a fundamental distaste for cutting the harness one might remove that wire from the multi plug and see if the symptoms go away. Still easier than pulling the carbs or dismantling the gages.
It is easier to disconnect it at the TCI module. I prefer not to cut for 2 reasons, you may not have the right wire and it is more difficult to repair. Also, if another wire in the same run should break, you have a spare if you don't cut the Y/b.
QuoteIt is easier to disconnect it at the TCI module
I agree. I also used the simplest explanation and remedy since the OP has a limited grasp of the Queens English. It also relies on little skill and only a knife or wire cutter.
Quoteyou may not have the right wire and it is more difficult to repair
measure twice, cut once :P
QuoteAlso, if another wire in the same run should break, you have a spare if you don't cut the Y/b.
I have no argument for this one as it has the potential to be of service
if the proposed scenario should arise and the same connector type was in play and was within reach. ;)
so anyway,the idea is to disconnect at first those 2 wires,and chek everithing?right? :)ill try
No, one wire - not two. It's a yellow wire with a band or stripe of black.
Hi Guerrero,
Just to confirm again what has been said in case the conversation has become blurred. You only need to disconnect one wire to disable the rev. limiter. It is the yellow wire with the black stripe.
Has the bike been running properly prior to this problem?
When you cleaned the carbs, did you remove every single jet and valve? If this is your first or second cleaning, it is easy to overlook some jets. It takes patience and a good light. I didn't REALLY do a thorough cleaning until my 5th or 6th attempt.
Have you tried riding the bike with the petcock valve set to the PRI (horizontal) position? If it runs better this way then the fuel pump supply is a problem.
All the best
Quote from: Rikugun on May 07, 2013, 06:42:11 PM
Tiger, why not cut the wire?
To that I answer, "why would you just cut a wire when there is no need to"...purely because you can?? Sorry but this is the lazy way...
If you do it from behind the gauge pack, its clean, simple, tidy...and can be reconnected if the owner sees fit 8) This method may take a wee while longer but also requires minimum skill as you put it...
Rather than use the persons lack of 'Queens English'...(which I do not speak, nor did I and I came to Canada from England at aged 42!!)...a simple explanation that the recipient can grasp would be better rather than easier don't you think??
As a salesman I have to work with immigrants on technical and nontechnical issues on a weekly basis...some have very limited command of the English language, however, it is ALWAYS waaaaay better than my command of their native tongue ;D :D :D :D... ;)
8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)
about the wire,i understood,just one,the yellow/black. :)
carbs was cleaning not me personaly,but in repair service.so ofcourse i dont know the quality of work,but as i know that master,and he was working with my uncle,who is 5 times world champ on motorcross ;) ( i dont say that,because i want to brag,or somet5hing,please understand me.just because i think he know what to do;) ) But,unfortunately he could not find the problem with my bike,hehe.
yes,ofc i tried petcock on all 3 positions,and there were no changes.so i hope,the fuel pump,is not the prob.
in two days i will get to bike,and try take out the wire.iw wont help :'(will need to try clean carbs.
but still,i want to ask question again-is it possible that this problem somehow is connected with that it eats a lot of fuel?
thanks anyway
Tiger, thank you for your response. Cutting the wire wouldn't be my first choice but neither would the procedure you prefer. There are other ways that are neat, tidy and reversible and more efficient. I've explained why I suggested the method I did and no one that knows me would say I'm lazy so I won't take offense. ;)
I used the term "Queens English" to mean what I understand it to mean and that is grammatically correct english that is plain, to the point, and free of slang. No disrespect was meant to you or the OP. Given Guerrero's self admitted "bad english" I felt the simplest description and fix was prudent. I lack your experience in working with language barriers but made an effort despite my deficiency. :-[
The symptoms are vague so it could be anything. So far, fueling and ignition have been suggested as potential culprits - pretty basic stuff. I didn't propose either but agree with the assessment thus far. I've often said 99% of Vision issues are carb related and that may very well be the case here. Still, given what we know right now, Walt's suggestion is just as valid and faster to check. It just makes good diagnostic sense to eliminate that as a possibility first. :)
Based on the passion and length of your response I would almost guess you had a bone to pick? Maybe I'm reading into it too much but I think there is a little something there. I'm not sure if you felt challenged or offended but I assure you neither was my intent. I've known you to be a great Visionary and by all accounts a good man. I have not read one negative comment about you (actually quite the contrary) and all of my dealings with you have been top notch. So if I've unintentionally offended I apologize. On the other hand, if you are just being thorough and I've misinterpreted your meaning then I'm confident you will forgive me for that as well. ;D
Rikugun...Certainly no offence meant or taken :angel: Each to their own regarding 'fixes'... ;)
8) ....... TIGER ....... 8)
Quote from: Guerrero on May 09, 2013, 12:13:23 AM
but still,i want to ask question again-is it possible that this problem somehow is connected with that it eats a lot of fuel?
thanks anyway
Yes, most probably.
Poorly performing carbs will definitely affect fuel consumption but it sounds to me as if you have not done enough kilometres yet to get a good indication of what your consumption might be. A well tuned xz550 seems to use between 5 and 6 litres per 100 kilometres depending on riding conditions/load etc. I currently average about 5.3 l/100km
There are a couple of other things to check though, especially in hot weather. - These made my gas consumption very high.
1. Weeping seams in the gas tank. As the tank rusted from the inside, my fuel weeped through the bottom seams and evaporated without me knowing. Leaving the bike in the sun in warm weather built pressure up in the tank and I didn't notice the fuel that I lost. A temporary fix was draining the tank and applying Permatex to the outsides of the seams. (This is a two part epoxy putty that you mix together and push in to the affected areas. Cheap and worked great, but ugly!)
2. Slight leaking from the carb drain valves. These are next to the bowl overflow tubes on the left side of the bike. A worn or broken "o"ring will cause wetness around this part of the carb. It should be fairly obvious. Overflowing fuel from the carb down the drain pipe will be either the sticking/incorrect height/damaged floats or the carb drain valves not seating properly.
However, your fuel consumption is probably less of a priority than getting the bike running well. Assuming there is no major mechanical problems such as a broken piston ring or burnt valve, it would be worthwhile running some upper cylinder lubricant in your petrol to remove gum from piston rings and valve stems. I think the Americans use something called "Seafoam"
Is this bike new to you? Or has it been running well and the loss of power is a new problem?
2.
yeah.well,my bke is using about 8 and 9 maybe even 10 litlres per 100km.with full tank it should go about 300km.but i have run flat,when i was not watching inside tank,for so many times in about 150km.so obviously it is too much.and i am not going with full throttle open,because it is even not impossible right now,with these problems.bike i have from begining of last summer.about a month everithing was good,and i actually dont know,at what moment,but te problem just started.
That's exactly what happened to me when I discovered the tank leak. Ran out of gas on the motorway in peak traffic. Not pretty. I refill now at the 250km mark. If I leave it longer I have to go over to reserve. Good luck with this. The nice thing about bike problems is that they are mechanical and not emotional. There is always a logical answer!
Guerrero, is it possible you have a 'reduced effect' lower power model of the XZ550? Lower compression engine is less efficient and can use more fuel. The vehicle Identification Number (VIN) will have the information.
Hmm,interesting.i hope not.vin-11u-051602
I just took off side cover of those wires.what is the meaning of yelow/green wire?behind the mentioned yelow black.because it was unplugged :)i plugged it now,but my batterie died,and i wait now for it to recharge.maybe that wire is somehow the problem?
I think the lower power "reduced effect" models have VIN starting with 11V-
Oh my God!i plugged that wire.and it seems,that everithing runs good now.not sure yet.need to repair clutch string.but atleast did little circle in backyard,and now there seems the problem to disapear.niw i need to adjust ignition,sometimes bike shoots.
Hehe! here's hoping.
From the wiring diagram on Roro's resource (1982 USA Models):
http://rsimonnz.googlepages.com/uswiring82.JPG
- it looks like the green/yellow wire feeds one of the coils out of the TCI Unit. If this was disconnected then you would have lost spark to one cylinder and been running on less than half power.
Good luck!!
As silly it could sound.but yes.just did longer test drive.it seeks everithing works properly ;D yeeyy.about fuel usage cant tell yet.that will see later.only now one problem.it takes heck of a long time to start.doesnt matter cold or warm.but i just killed battery,because of that.and had to push bike home from gas station:):):) about kilometr,quite a hard and heavy thing.what could be the problem?because i charged batery for sure.do i need to buy new one?ore some other ideas?
Quote from: Walt_M. on May 07, 2013, 08:08:49 AM
Are both your cylinders firing? The RPM limiter may be failed and cutting off the rear cylinder.
Wasn't the rev limiter but appears running on one cylinder was the problem - thanks for the advice Walt! :) Lucky thing Guerrero checked at the TCI connector else he may have been going round and round for a bit trying to find the source of the problem. ;)
When you start from cold, try giving the throttle one or two twists to get some gas down the carbs. (One flick works for me), then put the enrichening circuit (choke) on full. There are a dozen things that can lead to hard starting;
low battery, weak starter, dead stator/dead rectifier/weak battery, air leaks in carbs, poor float adjustment, carbs not synced, air jets mixed up in carb, blocked idle circuits in carbs, poor valve clearances, incorrect/oily spark plugs, poor plug gaps, tired resistor caps, broken spark plug leads, weak coils and so on.
However, each time I cleaned my carbs, the starting improved.!
Yeah,thanks i first tried to unplug at that end of wires,not as sugested at box infront:)
Well,im charging my battery now.will see.and probobly will buy new one.
Oh,and one stupid question-what is the easy,home, way to chek starter?is it working properly?and with what should i start to find the starting problem?(i mean the easiest ways first,what that i can do at home)
Guererro, it appears you are making good progress. The battery must be well charged or the ignition will fail to fire. Making the starter turn the engine over for a long time can cause the battery to lose charge, this makes the ignition more difficult to fire. It is good to have a strong healthy battery.
Yes.i know about that.i charged my battery full.and started my bike,but still it was kind of hardbor.it to start.i dont know exactly,but about 20 to 30 sec probably to start.i checked spark plgus,they seems to be good.now i dont know,do i need to buy new battery,or the problem is somwhere else.and what battery should i buy?what capacity and what size it should be?(height,depth etc)
Xz550 is like a girl,she needs everithing to be on high level:):) my dodge gc last year,when his battery was dead,ithink could start from 12 v finger battery.just hard half turn of the engine,and ready:) with Vision,it is so difficult :laugh:
Before racing off and buying a new battery, I suggest that you use some good battery jump leads to start the bike from a 12 volt car battery with your existing battery in place. Does it start any easier?. If it does, maybe it is time for a new battery. If it doesn't, the problem is elsewhere.
Don't have the car running though!
nah.atually the car is running pretty good.will try that
To clarify the point, DO NOT RUN THE MOTOR OF THE CAR when boosting (jumping) the battery of the XZ. It can damage the electronics of the bike.
ofcourse.im not as stupid as you could think ) i understand some things in cars. but still,if i will choose to buy new battery,what capacity should be it?the size,as i found,i guess should be 5 5/16 x 3 1/2 x 6 9/16 .but how many apm/hr? 14?
Huh! I didn't know that. When I am boosting my car from another car, I have often run the donor engine to get enough power. Whenever I have had to boost a a bike battery it has been from a spare car battery that wasn't fitted. Just lucky not to have done damage I guess. More stuff to remember!
for older cars it is fine.u can run both cars,and there wont be any damage.but with more power comes more responsobility.newer cars,have more electricity things.so you can just damage brains of car
Quote from: pinholenz on May 13, 2013, 07:12:16 AM
Huh! I didn't know that. When I am boosting my car from another car, I have often run the donor engine to get enough power. Whenever I have had to boost a a bike battery it has been from a spare car battery that wasn't fitted. Just lucky not to have done damage I guess. More stuff to remember!
From one car to another car they will presumbly both have large (amp/hr) battery that can withstand the charging
current (voltage isn't the issue) from the donor car's alternator. Jumping a bike on the other hand, you would not run the car to avoid a high amp rate charge from the car's alternator that may damage the bikes smaller battery.
Agreed. That would be like trying to charge a handful of AA batteries with your laptops charger. They will charge really really fast, and then... explode.
Believe me, I tried. Blew up my 100$ RC tank with a 14 volt IBM charger.
Hello again.finally got to my bike.tried to start with a car battery,and indeed took much less time.just some few turns.well,that is good.anyway my battery is some 2-3 years old.so im gonna buy new one.so,can you please tell me what exactly capacity and everithing should be in battery?
Thanks for all help :angel:
Generally a 14 Amp/hour battery is regarded as a minimum. Other contributors to this forum have used lighter and smaller gel and lithium ion batteries with great success and swear by the reliability and long life of these units.
Pinhole is right 14amp hour
Yuasa YB14L-A2 or equivalent
Make sure the +ve -ve are in the right place. There is not enough cable to cross over.
ok.thank you.hmm found so many YB14L-A2 .but different companies,i guess.price from 40 to 80 usd :o ofc course i would like to buy more expencive one,but will it be better?
When it comes to batteries, more expensive is generally better. But the cost benefits of lighter weight, reliability, long life and ability to cope with extreme demands do eventually get smaller.
A lot depends on personal circumstances, the expectations of your ride and your personal attitude. For me I want maximum fun and at minimum cost; for others they want to have the very best, regardless of cost and effort. I suspect that most people who take on an XZ550 fall somewhere in the middle of those extremes - with some very notable exceptions.
yeah.i just now understood,that the price difference was just of different shops-same battery but different cost. :)hope,will be good ::)
No brainer. ??? Good luck.
I have bought the following brands with no complaints Yuasa, GS, Motobatt, Shorai but there are many many others.
People tend to either love or hate the brand that they bought, but no-one buys so many batteries that they can make a decent comparison.
There are three main battery types in increasing cost and desirability... Within each type, more expensive may be better, but that won't always be the case - shop around and prices vary a lot for the same item.
Normal Lead acid - Standard OEM - Can leak if bike dropped, requires regular topping up
Sealed Lead Acid / Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) / Gel - Safer, Maintenance Free, Higher Cold cranking amperes (CCA)
Lithium Iron - Smaller, Lighter, Higher CCA, Longer life, May require special charger
Bought new battery.put it on-cold without turning acceerator,without choke from half turn it started ::) yeyyy
Hmm.but still have some little problems with power-till about 4.5k rmp it kind of looses :-\
That is about the rpm range where the famous "stumble" kicks in. Does it drive through this and is OK at higher revs?
Yes.after about 4-4.5 k it gos up to maximum like adevil :) but till that :'(especially at first gear. Is it possible to do something about that?because problem is not only that it goes slow at low rmp,but itkind of jumps.full power/half of it
You are not going to like this - Its the carbs!! Its the carbs!! Its the carbs!!
Blocked idle circuit, and/or air leaks into the carbs, and/or accelerator pump settings, and/or carb sync, and /or flapper vacuum. - the list goes on. Each time you thoroughly clean the carbs it will improve a bit until eventually it doesn't cause you as much grief. Good luck
:(sounds bad...oh well...will have to try fix this all.thanks for the info
So.just cleaned my carbs.changed some vacuume tubes.little bit.better.but still has problem with acceleration.so what should he my next step?how can i sync?although carbs were synced,and i did not changed anithing now
Hi Guerrero,
If you have done a REALLY REALLY full and proper carb clean then you will have had to have changed things, including the carb sync.
Before you strip the carbs out again, with the bike running, squirt carb cleaner at all the joints around the carb boots and each end of the butterfly shafts. Any change in RPM indicates an air leak and has to be sorted. Do the same with each vacuum outlet joint.
With the carbs out, every plug and every jet and each emulsion tube has to come out, including those jets buried deep in the body and the low speed air mixture screws. Strip the accelerator pump and check that it is not got a hole in it and it is delivering to each nozzle. If not strip out the nozzles and check the ball underneath is moving freely. Check that the nozzles are aimed correctly between the carb throat and the accelerator butterfly.
Squirt carb cleaner down every hole 2 or 3 times. Then blow them out with an airline before reassembling Check float heights and check wear in the float valve jacket and "o" ring. Replace any broken or worn "O" rings throughout the carb. If there is any rust sludge in the float bowls, install an in-line filter. (I put rare earth magnets in my float bowls to catch any rust - I have a crappy tank)
Every internal part of the carbs has to be pristine clean with no air leaks. Then you can start tuning and syncing the carbs.
Good luck.
Hello .im back:) tried different things,and now finaly disconnected the wire you talked about-rmp limiter.from front,under speedo.and it seems it really helped.i could drive on first gear even without problems,without power loose.question is-what does it mean?what should i do?what exactly do rpm limiter means?(the rounds can go higher that allowed,or what? And can i just drive with disconnected that wire?
That's good news. For most Vision owners, disconnecting the rev. limiter is a standard procedure. Mine was already done when I got my bike. A bit like the kick stand switch , it is a fail safe mechanism. Apparently if detects if the engine over-revs and cuts power to prevent engine damage. However the mechanism can become faulty and power can be lost during normal operation - hence most owners just disconnect the wire to prevent the risk of problems.
You do not need to do anything apart from covering the wire ends with insulation tape to prevent any accidental connections with other wires. It seems most owners would disconnect the yellow/black wire from near the TCI unit because of the easier access than at the back of the speedo. Either end is fine. Hope that the ride is more enjoyable now.
All the best
Quotethe rounds can go higher that allowed,or what? And can i just drive with disconnected that wire?
Yes, the engine now has the potential to over-rev under some circumstances where it may not have before. You can still ride it (and many do) but you must exercise a bit more care now.
I had mine to 11500 with no p problem . The rev limiter cuts the spark intermittently on the front cyl. At 12000. Unless you plan to rev it higher than that , you will not notice a difference!
Quote from: Rick G on June 03, 2013, 04:01:39 AM
I had mine to 11500 with no p problem . The rev limiter cuts the spark intermittently on the front cyl. At 12000. Unless you plan to rev it higher than that , you will not notice a difference!
That's a good point in that the advertised redline does not include the engineered safety factor. Of course as the valve springs age and fatigue, the safety factor diminishes. Also, it's not always the
planned over-revving that is destructive but rather the
unplanned over-revving. You know, like the unintentional missed shift at 12k. The resultant smiley faces left in the piston crowns by the valves will be nothing to laugh about! :o :( :D
Hello again.
So,finaly got new carburetor kit.installed everithing.and now atleast the rmp on neutral are not jumping up and down.and bike is even drivable.but still,i cant get constant speed,because if i dont change throttle,the power is loosing.and not all time when i accelerate it is rewing up.carb has been cleaned once again with ultra sound.
Do you have some ideas,what next should i do? or maybe i can take a little video with my bike,and show to you?
the thing is,my master who repaired ,is really good,but he saw bike like this,for first time,and have no close ideas,how to get it run nicely.maybe you can give me some more advice?it would be just great :angel:
I've never heard of a vision kissing the piston crowns with the valves . The springs are getting older , that's true but this bike had the stoutest valve train I've ever seen on a bike. I suspect that the design team at Cosworth over engineered the thing, too bad Yamaha didn't build it in the original 780 cc configuration. I wish I could get a hold of the fellow who was racing the Vision tracker , he would be able to educate us on that .
You want to say,that my vision has piston crowns kissing with the valves?sounds not so good,and what should i do then?
unfortunately ifor now,my bike is like a disaster :(everywhere are some problems.just want to get it ridin normaly.
And btw,i still got fuel usage problem.it is just too high.
just found out,that there should be carb vent hoses ??? ofc i dont have them.hm.are they necessary?i understand where they connect to carbs,but where exactly do other end goes to?
The two hoses should come from the front and rear carbs and run down the backside of the engine into the drain hole in the frame. BDC
These vent hoses are new to me as well. My bike came without them and to my mind they are unnecessary to the bike's performance. (I am sure they have a function, but I can't think why they need those pipes)
High mileage could mean that the tank is weeping petrol through the seams. Carefully check for any wetness around the edges of the tank on a hot day, especially at the low points where tanks are a bit more prone to rust. Easily fixed with some petrol tank putty. Not pretty, but you will get back on the road until you can do the job when you have time.
There is a tendency on the forum for prophets of doom to predict everything that COULD go wrong in their desire to help diagnose what IS wrong. Don't be despondent! Just work through and test their theories rather than assume the worst. Start with the basics, Fuel and Electrics, then Compression, before you start pulling anything apart.
Quote from: pinholenz on August 13, 2013, 07:53:01 AM
..... to my mind they are unnecessary to the bike's performance. (I am sure they have a function, but I can't think why they need those pipes)
Not that this
WILL happen but, under the right circumstances rider and bike moving through the air can cause vortices and low pressure areas that can alter air flow around the carbs. I think
one of the reasons they are routed behind the engine is to ensure they are in a relative calm air space. The vents provide atmospheric pressure to the bowls for proper operation.
Quote from: pinholenz on August 13, 2013, 07:53:01 AM
There is a tendency on the forum for prophets of doom to predict everything that COULD go wrong.......
Wow, "Prophet of Doom"...That would make an awesome screen name. :) Is it too late to change mine!? :P :laugh:
tank is not leaking,that is for sure.have checked that allready.and the gas is not disapearing while bike is just standing in garage :)
I understand that i need to check everithing,but dont know from where to start.i asume,that carbs are now in best shape,there could be.if everithing has been changed,and cleaned properly. :(
maybe there in the best condition , but when amateurs repair carbs , their not always as successful as they need to be.
"Wow, "Prophet of Doom"...That would make an awesome screen name. :) Is it too late to change mine!? "
Never too late. ;)
i dont think that master,who worked with 5 times world champ on motorcycle with sidecar for like 10 + years is an amateur.so..
°just he is not familiar with bikes like this.thats why i am asking help here in forum...i thought that for it is made.
Guerrero, did you disconnect the rev limiter wire?
yes I think it would help if you took a video as it hard to visualize your problem otherwise. that is why the forum is here I'm sure people will help you as much as they can, but it is difficult to diagnose problems just using words
hehe,prophetofdoom :)
yeah,now when carbs are done,i will try to dc that wire again,forgot about that,and will see what happens next,and hope in these days will take a video,thanks
ok.here are few videos.quality of filming is soo bad,and it is really hard to understand something here,but sorry,i dont have some Go Pro.just my pfone,in front pocket
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RH1avdG1H0&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAGonypHRN0&feature=youtu.be
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g_7Wp5yBZc&feature=youtu.be
will try to explain in short-first gear,not going more that 5k rpm,about 20-25 km/h,after all other gears go till 5k,then try to stuck,sometimes looses acceleration at all,but when,and if i manage to get higher than 5,5 / 6k rpm,it flies pretty good.
and has problems to keep constant speed from zero till these 5k rpm,( like loosing power,and closing throttle)
that is the most nearest,what i can explain =)
btw i dc the rpm limiter.cant tell any difference.
to air flapp has been added 1coin.
Sounds as though you have no power rather than losing power. I'm no mechanic but I wonder if both cylinders are firing? BDC
yeap.both.and spark plugs are good,in right color
It doesn't matter if you are a world champion mechanic , the Vision carbs are like no other . They are more like a Weber car carbs than motorcycle carbs There are a lot of tricks to Vision carbs . Some Visionaries have had good luck doing their own carbs some have not.
Your bike is running on one cylinder , cut the rev limiter wire and report back to us.
When you start it from cold use your hand to see if the front header pipes and the rear cylinder "Y" pipe get hot at about the same rate.
After a short ride use a spray bottle and spray water on the front header pipes and the rear "Y" pipe. Does the water sizzle/steam the same for the front and rear cylinders?
if I noticed correctly, in the first video it seems as the acceleration is jumpy. in most of my experiences this means there is some sort of vacuum leak... I didn't notice you saying anything about doing the carb cleaner check for vacuum leaks.
as for not being able to get above 5,000 rpm it sounds like you are indeed only running off of one cylinder. I had this problem after I rebuilt my engine and (I don't even want to admit this) I mixed up the intake and exhaust cams. doh! I doubt that yours are mixed up, but there could be other problems that have the same effect such as faulty tci, spark plug wires, plugs themselves, coils.....etc.
i disconnected rev limiter-no change,as i said.probobly it is tci,i dont know,anyway need to get today to electrican,and will tell about that too...oh,im kind of sick of this all...i know that this is good bike,but so many problems with it :( :'(
if i touch pipes,both are warm.maybe just one cylinder turns on/off all the time?when it is under load?
OK your bike starts well so I'd eliminate pilots and vacuum leaks for the time being, and probably TCI
It really does look like a rev limiter kicking in early. Double check that you did disconnect it (Really, they fail a LOT), Try firing up your bike at night taking it up to 5k and see if you can see any sparks. You can get shorting to engine or frame from bad insulation on the HT leads sparking to the engine that shows only at high RPMs
This will show OK on the spark plugs as you cease getting ignition over a certain RPM, they will just be a little wet. You can also check this by taking it up to 5k and sniffing your pipe, if you stop getting ignition at 5k but your fuel is OK it will make your eyes water
Other possibility I can think of is your main circuits are still blocked, but the others are nice and clean.
Hmm.well as you said i disconnected that wire,but from front.it was easier for me(behind speedo)only if it is the right wire?yelow,with black stripe.about in the middle of dash board?i just gave bike to electrician,want to change all wires,because they have not been changed,since birth,and one day my battery was dead,in 15 km.somwhere i guess it went short. After it will be done,ill try what you sayd about sparks.
And still getting about 10-12 l per 100 km:(:(:( kind of expensive
ok.i took out air filter and it started to run much better.so my mechanic sayed,that probobly need to change stock ( i dont know how on english it will be,but in carbs 4 things,that i guess let through fuel,or something,any way-the size is 127.5) and need to change to 122 or even 120.then with some adjustments everithing should be good.
Any thought about that?
bike really runs much much better with out air filter( but filter is not the problem,because it is allmost new,so not dirti)
Is there a vacuum operated door where air enters the airbox and is it functioning properly?
no.mine is manual,without vacuum.
You have the 1st setup Yamaha used . They did an update and provided a kit to use the vacuum operated flapper . Contact Sunburnedaz, he has some spare air box tops, with the vacuum operated flapper. I have some spare carb tops with the vacuum fitting to operate the flapper. i might even have the instruction sheet on how to install them.
There was a field fix , which consisted of epoxying a nickel to the top of the flapper door . this caused the door to close sooner , providing a richer mixture in part of the RPM range.
i allready did epox flapper door some time ago.but that didnt solve problem.now,when i am without air filter,it runs better,cant tell yet about fuel usage
just tried at night,was going through all rpm,no sparks anywhere. :-\
yah,and i really start to think that one cilinder is utrning off at some moment about 5k rpm.but it is only when under load,or in gears.because on N it runs smooth. any ideas,why one cilinder,(i guess the front one) is coughing?
°that probobly would solve the fuel usage problem,runing on 1 cilinder kind of hard for 310 kg+
so,afer ride,and when pipes start to cool down,when left pipe is still very hot,the right one is allready absolutly cold.this means the front cylinder is not working properly,right?
what possibly i can do with it? :-\
tested spar plug wires,pfound,as i thought front cylynder wire,is damaged.engine can run only on front cylinder,but under load,turns off.will change both wires(hope can find one) then will see
Contact Tiger, very long time member of this Forum, for high quality replacement spark plug wires.
Check/replace your spark plug caps also - they are known to fail. Be aware of the difference between USA spec which uses plain caps and resistor plugs, and Euro/Australasian spec which uses resistor caps and non-resistor plugs.
When buying spark leads, get true copper wire. The carbon leads sold in automotive stores are not good on the XZ.
ProphetofDoom? Nah mate. You are BeaconofHope!
I bought my plug wires at the local lawn mower shop . They don't tolerate carbon core wires either.
Ok,changed spark plug wires/caps and can say-it's alive!!!!
really,only seems now,have to change i guess,its called jets? because with air filter dont have high.but without flies like a monster,hurray =)
only now my generator is dead..... :-\ :'(
Check out the stator, as it may have failed. Also check out the regulator / rectifier as it is possible it also has failed. If you need to replace the regulator / rectifier use a later model MOSFET type, it will be much more reliable and operate at much lower temperature than the original silicon gate reg / rec unit.
yes,i ment stator=) when i saw it about month ago,it wasreally dark brown.but i hope i will be able just to rewind? it ,not to buy new.
but how can i check regulator/rectifier?what should i do with it?
k.pfound diagram on how to check everithing.first step didnt get well,it showed less than 0.2 v.
question is-where is ground on r/r? =) it has 3 yelow black wires coming from stator,and then 2 red/black going in to one,to very begining of +,and 2 green/black wires going in to one black,going somwhere.if we asume that 2 green/black wires is the ground,i checked the second step(red mm wire to - battery,and black mm wire to this 2green/black in to black) and it showed more than 0.2v -about 0.3-0.4 jumping.
Best
solution : connect the RR ground straight
up to the battery(-) with an extra lead. Fix
the problem and return to START --from diagram
so should i just connect right from 2green/black to battery negative,and just leav it like that?or just to check?
connected extra wire straight to battery from rr ground,but was no changes.
what should i do next?still rr problem,or stator?
just for you to see,how big of a mess is in my wiring
with blue mark those are the wires about which i was talking from R/R going 2 reb/black and 2 green/black
but with purple -what are those? brown with no edn,coming somwere from back,and this connector with 3 wires
what are they for?
The wires in the blue circled area are 1. Red is +12 Volts from battery 2.Black is -12 Volts from battery (Gnd,earth) 3.Brown is switched +12 Volts from ignition switch. Your RR unit may be drawing current all the time rather than only when the +12 Volts is applied with ignition switch .
The wires in purple circle would go to Flasher Cancelling Unit on bikes that have that circuitry. BDC
ok.thanks.but main problem is,that generator is not charging while running bike =(
Recommend that you wire RR unit Brown wire correctly (Probably to one of the red/black wires). I don't know if your stator is putting out an AC current or not. Find someone to help you measure stator output. If no output Voltage, replace stator. BDC
ok.checked more some things-it seems my R/r is dead.because battery is not charging,instead there comes AC power-about 25v
next question,how much of AC chould come from stator? i have about 6-10 v AC when testing on 2 from 3 wires.
what rr should i buy? i understood that mofset,but exactly from xz 550? on ebay,how to know if it is mofset? or maybe some one can offer me some?
MOSFET RR unit that is easiest to fit is from a Honda CBR600RR 2006 and later. It has 2 'pig tails' just like the XZ RR unit, so the only work to make it fit is change the connectors on the wires.
You can tell which is a MOSFET unit as the manufacturer's (Shindengen) number on the units starts with FH instead of SH. FH means it is MOSFET, SH means it is silicon rectifier type. FH008AA is a good one, but they all will work as long as you can connect the wires. Many MOSFET units have socket type connection where the wires plug into the body of the RR unit, for these you need to make a wire plug to connect them to the wire harness of your XZ.
Search this site for discussions of MOSFET conversion, there is a lot of information and links to other sites with more information.
A properly functioning Vision stator should put out 50 to 55 VAC. Measure across any two stator leads in succession.
Hi Guerrero, I think we have been having the same problem!
My problem started intermittently. The bike would run on one cylinder sometimes, usually after I'd been riding it for more than 10-15 minutes.
I also had trouble starting my bike so I would use up a lot of the power. I was having to recharge my battery a lot. I then noticed that even when the bike did start ok, the battery would go flat after 3 or 4 rides, so even when it was rideable it was not charging, and going flat.
It took me a while but I finally realized that the bike would only fire on both cylinders with a FRESHLY CHARGED battery. After about 10-15 minutes I would lose spark to rear cylinder. If I stopped bike and left it and then started it again it would ride ok for another 5 minutes then the rear cylinder would cut out.
I thought something was loose or overheating and replaced spark plug caps and wires etc but it wasn't until I noticed the charging problem that I figured the 2 problems might be related.
When I connected my multimeter to the battery and started the bike, the voltage would drop from 13.0v to 12.65 or lower. I had a spare stator and put this in, started bike and it read about 15v. However after about 15 minutes of riding the problem returned! I need to test the reg/rect diode but after checking/replacing everything else I have a feeling this is the issue!
Let us know how you get along!
yeah.seems this problem is deep.
as i said,i tested 3 wires from stator,and they dont show 50vac,only about 6-10 vac.as i understand it is bad.and at my battery there dont come any DC,only about 25 AC.
and the strangest thing is that,3 wires coming from stator grounds,even it should not be like that!!i can't understand where hey are shortening,or something to frame.
and one more problem,that other 3 wires coming out from stator-ground or something,they are little broken,and at the entrance at stator without wire sealing.today will try to fix that,and maybe even rewind stator
next,probobly stupid question-from which bike,except allready honda cbr i can take RR unit? what i need to know,what should be the same? =) hard to find,if u dont know,what are you looking for :)
It appears that you need a new stator and RR unit. Unless you are familiar with rewinding high current windings, I would suggest that it would be much simpler to buy a new stator. BDC
yes,i allready today at morning gave stator to for rewinding.i better wont do that my self.+ all three negative wires coming from the stator case were kind of broken,but man who will rewind,will change them too.so about stator no worries,and it will be cheaper,than buy new one) from 60 to 100 usd.
is it possible,then to put on new stator,and check how everithing works?i mean,if RR really is dead,wont it kill stator again?only for like few secs,to check is it working or not?so i dont need to wait till i get somwhere RR unit
I suppose its possible that your R/R unit is still good and you could check the charging Voltage quickly before damage occurs to stator. I'd look for a new R/R unit before risking damage to new wired stator. JMO BDC
P.S. Still think brown wire should be used.
iff ill get new rr,ill try to connect brown,just first i need to get RR.no one is answering me,how to know,which will fit vision?ok,i know,that honda cbr 600,any more ideas? or are they all in about same price range?
Read this:
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=14447.msg132053#msg132053
BDC
ok,thank you.now i atleast know,what i need.but what prices are in canada,or in usa?because at my place rr for fz1,for example, is 600usd..it is like too much,no?
is this,what i need? - http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-R1-YZFR1-YZF-YFM550-YFM700-GRIZZLY-FZ1000-FZ-VOLTAGE-RECTIFIER-REGULATOR-/321143619267?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AFZ1%7CYear%3A2008&hash=item4ac5a6bec3&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/MOSFET-REGULATOR-RECTIFIER-YAMAHA-XVS13-V-Star-Tourer-2007-08-/350849959635?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item51b04986d3&vxp=mtr
or a little cheaper option- http://www.ebay.com/itm/REGULATOR-RECTIFIER-HONDA-CBR600RR-CBR-600RR-2007-2008-2009-2010-2011-2012-/290964418950?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACBR%7CYear%3A2007&hash=item43bed4b186&vxp=mtr ?
This one is the correct type
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2007-CBR-600rr-voltage-regulator-rectifier-/281152425630?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4175fd8e9e&vxp=mtr
Sometimes they are available for $40 or a bit more, but you have to search for them, and there are lots that have very high prices but they are no better than the lower price ones. It is important that you get the correct one. If buying a RR unit from eBay send a question to the seller to verify the number stamped on the unit starts with FH, NOT SH. The SH ones will work if they are good but they are not MOSFET.
Many regulator rectifiers will function for your bike but the MOSFET units will run cooler and last much longer.
thank you,for help. :)
Here is another one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/07-08-09-10-11-12-Honda-CBR600RR-Rectifier-Voltage-Regulator-OEM-/181205590448?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a30b1e1b0&vxp=mtr
nice,now only need to get info from both,do they shipp to my country;) and how much can it cost.as i looked,to other RR,but shipping price is about the same...55-60 usd
Lots of r/r units for sale on aliexpress.com (direct from china)
Good prices and they tend to ship worldwide
thanks,will have a look
just got and put on my stator.but now for sure have to change r/r,because no charging is happening.
i would love to buy from ebay..but to pay half of price only for shipping.dont really know,what to do..and could not find,or just bad in looking for at aliexpress.com
but if ill put non mosfet unit?from for example cbr 1000 rr? will it be bad?new,but not oem
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Voltage-Regulator-Rectifier-For-HONDA-VFR800-VTR1000-CB900F-CBR1100XX-VTX1800C-/281150603105?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AHonda%7CYear%3A2007&hash=item4175e1bf61&vxp=mtr
this shown as fh???but it is not the right one,?
ok,or is this will be the right one?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/REGULATOR-RECTIFIER-HONDA-CBR1000RR-CBR1000-RR-2006-2007-/290964418972?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AHonda%7CModel%3ACBR%7CYear%3A2007&hash=item43bed4b19c&vxp=mtr
or this http://www.ebay.com/itm/St-Voltage-Regulator-Rectifier-For-Honda-CBR600-900-CBR954-CR1100XX-96-05-NSS250-/181196327422?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Make%3AHonda%7CModel%3ACBR%7CYear%3A2006&hash=item2a302489fe&vxp=mtr
then ill take it
im realy sorry,that i write so much garbage,but want to make everithing right
I think any of those would work but it will not be direct replacement. The mounting holes may not align and the wiring will need to be customized to your bike. For those you listed the three yellows will need to be joined to your three AC (stator) output wires. The green goes to the battery negative post and red to the battery positive post.
They seem to be aftermarket, not OEM so I don't know what the quality will be.
ok.thank you for information.ill try this one for now.when will be able to buy proper one,for big money,will do that
wiring is not the problem,i do not have original connector for three wires anyway.
finaly got my stator rewind and mew r/r mosfet unit installed.plus changed tail lights to led,and turn signals and sashboard light are waiting for install.
but problem is,that to my battery still is coming about 25 AC power.what coudl be the problem?any ideas?from stator wires has been changed with new insulation.
and finaly came to,that i want to change as much wires i can.with what should i start?what i am gonna need?
Oem stators were not that special , after market are no worse and maybe better.
Need to know what's wrong with your wiring and what wiring are you talking about. Spark plug wiring, harness, battery and starter wiring?
Quote from: Guerrero on October 12, 2013, 12:59:25 PM
and finaly came to,that i want to change as much wires i can.with what should i start?what i am gonna need?
BDC
Guerrero, if you are having 25V AC are you measuring at the battery? This is a strange result. If that is so I think your regulator is bad.
How is your regulator wired into your system? Can you describe which wires are connected to which other wires? And which wires connect to the battery?
wiring i was thinking about is-battery wires,and everithing around fuses.as well,to change fuses and fuse box.about that question is-why on photos many of you have 4 or more fuses?i have only 2 originals
spark plugs and caps i allready changed.
i dont actually know about r/r,i hope it should be good...although ordered from china..wires are 3 yelow,and 2 red,2 green.and conected as it should be-yelow to white stator wires,2 reds to 1 red going to fuse,and 2 green to 1 black.
Was your stator rewound by someone who knows how to do the rewinding and how to test it? I would purchase a new one before attempting to rewind an old stator. Wiring seldom causes troubles, it's the connections to terminals that present problems. Repair terminals and you will fix most of your electrical problems associated with wiring. BDC
Thanks about wiring.
Well man who was rewinding is well known,for his jobs.every one with any electro motors or stators or something go to him so he does that good.
I hope you get it sorted. I think we are having the same problem so I'll be interested to see what the issue is. I have ordered a new R/R, just waiting for it to arrive. I've tried a new stator, new plugs and leads and a new TCI, still having the same problem.
and still i am back with this posts main problem- mid range power lose.have tried many different coins on flapper to glue on,but still nothing,cant get smooth throttle till max rpm.it just looses on about 5k,and just after kickdown (or i dont know,how it is right on english) turns in,it only gets higher than 6k rpm...i am sick of this allready...there is no vacuum leacs,everithing seems to work fine.but still this hole in rpm
want to change jets to 120 pilot air jets,and 122.5/127.5 main jets,i understand,that should be correct,in rebuild kit i had 130/135
oh,and what weight should i put on air flap?i mean,at what rpm it only should start to open?
The weight I've seen suggested is 2 US nickels. They are about 5 grams each.
I went back through this thread - and noticed you said your serial number was 11U-051602.
I believe you have a german low power model – even though the model designation is 11V these have a serial 11U-050101 onwards. There are two main differences between a 11U and 11V. Cams and Jetting. You can verify if your bike really is an 11V by measuring the inlet cam lobe height - 35.399mm on the 50 Horsepower 11V, 36.80mm on the 64 horsepower 11U, or checking the throttle valve - 125 on an 11V, 120 on an 11U
The rebuild kit jets will be wrong for an 11V - Jetting should be
Main Jet 130/135
Air Jet 130/130
Since you are working on your bike, I'd suggest converting it to an 11U. Someone here is bound to have a set of cams.
The 11V will run only marginally better than the 45 horsepower XZ400 - the difference between that and a 64 horsepower 11U is enormous.
Only if you change the cam I'd suggest going to 120/120 air jets. The larger jets were based on those that came with vacuum actuated flapper kit which you don't have. (Even then, I believe they are wrong and should be 135/135, but there is disagreement about this by some - the documentation is poor in this area). Iain and I both run 120/120 air jets with the vacuum flapper.
If you are still getting a bog after all this, pay some attention to emulsion tube cleanliness, accelerator pump cleanliness and direction, you may even need to back off the accelerator pump actuator rod a little.
Before any changes, look down the carburetor throats and make sure your accelerator jets have not lost their nozzle.
i have the accelerator nozzle for sure.that should not be the problem.
hmm.ok,i will check that cam lobe height and butterfly
and while i have not checked it yet,is it hard to convert it to u11? what will i need? the camshaft and carb?
thanks,again
oh those germans :)dont they have anything else to do,than lower piece of art? :-\
will be able to check if it is one of those,only on monday..if it will be like that,i guess i am going to cry :laugh:(nah,just hard..)
If it's just cams and jetting, then not so hard to convert. That's all that is listed in the comparison of the two models 11U and 11V.
The only way to be 100% sure of all the differences would be to go through the parts fiches line by line. You will find them in this thread, also a comparison of the two models 11U and 11V from the German XZ site
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=12221.0 (http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=12221.0)
On the plus side, if you think your bike runs well at wide open throttle, then you would be really pleased after adding 14 horsepower
oh,well jets is no problem.only cams i think,i guess it will cost me a lot,especially shipping =( but you said something about throttle valve? 120 or 125 ,is not it butterfly?or am i wrong,sorry language barrier and everithing.
but yeah,will check,do i really have kid's version,and then will do that =)
Yes throttle valve=butterfly, but butterfly is not the official technical term.
They may have the number 120 or 125 written on them.
yes,i understand that butterly is not off term =) just for me to understand what is what.ok then.thank you.will have a look.and write back.
We'll have to add "Guru of 11U" to "Powder-Coater Extraordinaire" and "Master Brake Builder" whenever addressing POD. :)
Amen to that, Rik.
So dear friends :)you can congratz me.i have got a Deutch Demo version :laugh: hurray.
so changed air jets to 120.mains to 122.5 and 127.5,and put 10 grams of something on to flapper.
now,should i order from ebay(but i must be sure,that they are not demo version as well) or some one from ROV can help me with Camshaft?
ebay like these? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-YAMAHA-XZ550-VISION-REAR-EXHAUST-CAM-SHAFT-/271089128577?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f1e2bd481&vxp=mtr
or,any other opptions?
°
worst thing shipping- item price 20$, shipping 45 $...
Is anyone sure that the "learner version " actually had differant cams? I sent a set of Vision cams to Humber in Poland to upgrade his German version of the low power XZ550 . He could detect no difference between the cams I sent and the cams in the bike . The cams i sent came from a North American '82 . There are no 50 HP vision here.
just that i checked cams,and they were 35.4 mm as said on diagrams(demo version)and for normal version it is 36.8mm
Quote from: Guerrero on October 21, 2013, 08:16:12 AM
So dear friends :)you can congratz me.i have got a Deutch Demo version :laugh: hurray.
so changed air jets to 120.mains to 122.5 and 127.5,and put 10 grams of something on to flapper.
now,should i order from ebay(but i must be sure,that they are not demo version as well) or some one from ROV can help me with Camshaft?
I am pleased you have found a probable cause for your poor performance; diagnosing is always the hardest part.
I'm sorry I do not have any spare cams to send you - my spare engine had them removed on the rear cylinder for some unknown reason.
I'd suggest you go the "The Swap Shop" on this forum. There are a few people offering parts recently such as VisionSeattle, NtmrMoon so give them a Private Message. They may not read this post. I'd also suggest a Wanted: Cams request in a separate thread - All the other 550 models have the same cams, so you do not need to worry much about the model.
Perhaps PM Humber as well; seems he has a spare set of cams.
Be careful when buying in a foreign language. The Ebay listing you posted was for ONE cam, you need four. I think you would be best with four off the same bike.
Humber sold all of his stuff to a friend , so he may be able to refer you. On this side of the Atlantic, Sunburnedaz can help you . I sold almost all my stuff to him . H20 lawyer has lots of stuff too.
ok.thanks guyz.will look for it :)
oh,so i need four of them? not just a pair? =) ok will know
I have a set. BDC
Made a deal with Re-Vision.thanks to him.now when i will get those cams,i will see,how things changes :)
Just got that set of cams.thanks again to Re-Vision.
hope will get to put them on in these days :)
but for my problem,only now i took a look at this - http://www.xz550.de/tp3/fileadmin/xz-tipps/xz-50-oder-64ps-die%20unterschiede.pdf
and understood about drossel klappe=) only now.
will it be big problem,if i will run with 64hp cams,and jets,but with 50 carbs?(i understand that it is not a good idea..)
do i need to change then the carbs lower body part and butterfly?how much it again can cost?...
No-one on this forum except you has a low power model - they may better answer this question (whether it will make a difference keeping the 50PS carb bottom) on the German forum. Sprechen Sie Deutsch?
The butterfly size is based on the size of the hole it fits, so yes, you will need a new bottom for each. Someone here is bound to have a set. I think I have a spare single you can have for free + postage cost (from New Zealand)
ok.thanks.will try to get some info on .de sprechen,aber shcleht.also im schule fuhr sieben jahre gelernt...
oh well.got info from .de they say,that i have to change carbs for sure,otherwise it wont work.
so it seem i need carbs lower part,and rubber intakes,some one have any offers? :)
work update:
finaly changed cams.yet,could not start,because of not charged battery.tomorow will start it and put to winter sleep.tired of this...
still looking for carbs bot and rubber intake to change.
p.s. now have set of camshafts from xz550 german low power model =) if outside there is some one,who want to get them,pm me ;)
Quote from: Guerrero on November 21, 2013, 11:03:54 AM
work update:
finaly changed cams.yet,could not start,because of not charged battery.tomorow will start it and put to winter sleep.tired of this...
still looking for carbs bot and rubber intake to change.
p.s. now have set of camshafts from xz550 german low power model =) if outside there is some one,who want to get them,pm me ;)
I thought Bobby offered you a set at a very reasonable price ? And I found you a set from wreckers at a dearer price but not outrageous. If you are waiting for a free set, you might be in for a long wait.
schwierig zu verstehen :-[
no,i am not waiting for a free set.just the set that offered bobby was with water damage.and i dont know ,will i be able to clean it...
Give goodpartsnz@gmail.com an email. He has a couple of xz400s (same size as 550 but you will need new jets) he is dismantling and he is used to shipping internationally. Good bloke.
Jets i allready have the right one and new. If it is same as 400,then good.yhanks i will write to them.and maybe i can try to vlean with ultra sound those from Bobby. I just really dont know
so i wrote to goodpartsnz@gmail.com.and he answered me positivly.that is good.no just want to check once again for sure, 400 and 550 carbs(82) are the same?except the jets(and german low power version 550 is different?) if so,then i am ordering
i read thread about differences between 400and 550,but could not understand completly are they the same or not.=)
and what about rubber intakes,is there then no diference too?
I can't say that I've sat down and measured every piece of a 400 and 550, but I have run 400 carbs on a 550 with nothing but a jet change, and adding a fuel pump (and the associated mounting hardware). Emulsion tubes/gasket were different as well but don't recall if I swapped them over.
The 550 Manifold rubbers are different front/rear because the front has a vacuum connection for the fuel pump. The 400s are both the same as the 550 rear because the 400 doesn't have a fuel pump. Not a huge deal, but if using 400 manifolds it means you will need to bypass the fuel pump to sync the carbs, or add an extra vacuum port - you can get screw in brass ones from bike shops. At least one of my 400s had 550 manifolds fitted, so yours may as well.
There may be other differences. To be sure your best bet is to go through the fiches for the 14x and the 11u and see which part numbers are different. It's quite a job since the numbers don't correspond.
Fiches are in this thread
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=12221 (http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=12221)
How does the 400 get by without a fuel pump? Are the tanks shaped differently?
Tanks are the same, but the engine is slightly shorter
Hi.i am back with more and more questions.finaly got carbs,dirty but still,as seller said from 550=) Brutusbistro.his name is Jon.any way,got them yesterday,but the thing is,that on throttle valve it says not 120,and not even 125(as on german low power model),but it says 130.how?and why?and doest that mean,that these are wrong carbs?
really hope,on your help
Sounds like you have carbs off a US Model 83. They are different again - don't get them in Oceania or Europe.
Great...i am lucky again...what should i do now?i am getting sick of paying so much money for wrong items.even when i asked for 82 year...
Ok.finaly got my V running.not quite smooth.but atleast running.
But my temperature gauge is dead now...what could be the problem?thermostat?how to know where is the problem,and what i have to change?
If the temperature gauge does not respond it could be a problem with the sender switch, OR a loose wire, OR a malfunctioning gauge.
I'm glad your bike is running now.
ok,so what would be the right order to check everything? what should i start with?
There are testing procedures in Haynes
Guyzz,i need help!extra..
So,the bike theoretically is running,But!! I just bought new battery,charged it,put it in.but it takes ages to start bike..and even when it starts it dies ,so fully i can start with some 3-4 time.after i took it to test ride,and in 1 km when i was braking from high speed/rpm it died.and i could not start again,because there was not enough juice in battery...
i know,i need to find out what is going with my charging sistem-charging but only till 13.9v.
But what should i do,to make it start good.
before starting,i put to prime,wait a little bit,then full choke and no hands,only start button :) but it takes really long and hard to start..
any help would be great.
Really it has come the time,when i need V for everyday running..
oh and,carbs are i think as clean as they can be,just from Re-vision.
And i used starter rebuild kit last year,since then bike has maybe some 200-300 km maximum.
I dont want to burn me new battery..I am really despaired now.I dont know what to do,to make V work properly..Still carbs need some adjujstments ,because now there is no kick in after 6k.need to figure this one out too
ok,update of the situation.
I became mad,that Vi is not running,and dismanteled it =D i mean,i took off left cover and stator.And what i pfoun was,that stator itself is in great condition,(last year rewund(about 300km only)But.the 3 main wires are damaged,i can see wires itself ,no insulation,like it would been cut.was it some metal peace or something,i dunno.
Need to figure out what to do with this situation
Any coments would be nice
The XZ400 I was working on had the stator re-done and they had used shrink wrap and insulating tape. Neither of these will survive the temperatures inside the engine. You have to use fibreglass sleeve. It's about $4/metre
FIberglass,ok.but how and with what i will close the ends of fiberglase tube?so the oil wont come in?
Can i first isolate each wire with heatshrink and then fiberglass?
You don't need to seal it as such, but you can use high temp heatshrink.
Look for PTFE shrink tube. Once shrunk it's good for 250Deg C
yes,but now after better examination atleast one 1 wires has been cut more than should be,i mean 1/3 of little wires are cut.I guess i need to change the whole wires anyway
ok,so the problem for now is,that while battery is atleast in medium shape it starts good,but badly keeps the rpm in neutral.litle bit jumping from 1,5-2k .
And how would normaly rpm's jump?i mean maybe for Vision there is some special way?mine is like almost all the time good to maximum then slowly down,stops at 3k rpm,and then slowly coming down to idle.
I checked the YICS for internal and external,and there was no leaks,not that i could find.But can there be som where else some vacuum leak?or what could be the problem?
People please,i need to get with this,because at the moment i am in the middle-can i repair and make V work,or should i sell it..personally me,i want to make it work,but i cant see the end for it for now..
any help would be great
Are you sure that the carbs are well synchronized? The slow drop to idle that you describe is an indicator of bad synchronization.
I do not know this,because i was not doing that my self,i dont have the clocks,and am not good at this.
Darn.Now when bike is cold it starts good.i charged battery,everithing was great.did a test run,till gas station.Filled tank.To start was little harder.but i made it.Came home.left for about 10min.Offered my wife some ride.and nothing!!COuld not start,till the battery was dead.How come??
The charging is not the best,with light's on voltmeter is showing 13,5.I ordered battery wire set from Tiger.waiting for it.
But how come i could not start again???
edited:so last try i thought the battery was dead(i mean discharged)V stood for about 1hour ,i gues it got cool enough to start from 2 turns.
how and why? =)
New leads won't hurt, but just randomly buying parts is not the best way to get your bike running well
If you don't have synched carbs you are asking for trouble.
Do a search on $4 manometer
And go through the electrex fault finding chart to diagnose your charging system
i guess for carb sync i dont need just a manometr..i have never done it..maybe i will try my self.
Yes,i know,that putting in just parts wont help,i noticed that about 3 years ago,,when i started this whole disaster..i am trying my best,unfortunately no one lives near by me,who would understand Vision.
Just did whole electric test.and everithing seems to be good.
I am not sure if this helps, but when my Vision visited at the local repair shop they tried to adjust the mixture to right. That was impossible because of the flooding. They said that simple test for that is to adjust mixture screws totally shut, if the bike don't shut down something is wrong. In my case that happened. After their attemp to adjust the mixture there was no idle at all and the bike was terrible to ride and hard to start. When I took my bike there the idle was good and I did think that my carbs are totally fine.
Another thing was, that after repairing my carbs (Keyster kit) the bike wasn't idling as good as it should been. I thinked that I had air leak. I systemically did check every place where it might be and the only places were airbox. I am still missing original seal from the air box cover. Also the screws weren't holding it down proberly. So i took Plastic padding and put it to both pieces, the upper part and lower part so that when putting it together it kind of seal the whole box. Then I let it dry and after that put it back together. I also replaced the orginal screws with bolts and nuts to get it tighten air tight. That helped a lot and after it the bike did idle much smoother and started better.
will try something.but interesting,that when cold now it starts great,but when getting in normal working temperature it is a lot harder to start..
And how old is your battery? Did you also make a load test battery? Maybe is really dead.
My guesses is that when starting at cold fine but not when warm :
- battery dead
- not charging enough (regulator or stator broken or both)
- something wrong with the ground wire
- valves not adjusted right
If there is even a doubt that battery is not in good shape buy a new battery. After that start with checking the ground, is the wire ok and the contacts to motor and to battery are clean. Then check the voltage when bike is running, is that ok with idle and with higher rpms to be sure that stator and R/R is ok. If the problem is still there maybe it is the valve clearances which are too tight.
As i mentioned before my battery is completly new.like 2 weeks.I did all tests for electricity.And i found no problems,only strange fact that my battery is charging maximum 13,9v. As for V people might say is too low,but for any other normal bike is enough.Even in test it says,that if it is more than 13,5 then just put away tools,everithing is fine.Stator has been rewund.anr works great.R/r is new.
Ordered now from Tiger battery wire set.IN a week will be on a bike.then well see,has it changed anithing...
Ok, how about the spark plugs, spark plug covers and the spark plug wires? Are they alright and new or original? Have you checked the valve clearances? Maybe answers to my questions are somewhere in the earlier pages, sorry not to read every page before writing...
same.spark plugs brand new(i have changed a lot of them in last year.)new wires and covers aswell.
Have no idea about valve clearance.Upgraded from low power version some time ago.I actually dont know about valve clearance.
Tomorrow will try something again with sync.maybe will be able to make better.
Ok, I also changed low power cams to normal versions and the valve clearances were too tight on the intake on both cylinders.
oh.ok will remember that.and try to do something with it
13.5 vdc is proper at idle or any other time. It's not wrong. Easy cold start and hard hot start, to me, would generally indicate that some adjustment in the carb is rich. Most gasoline internal combustion engines like a rich mixture to start from cold. Not so much when hot. That's why carbureted gasoline engines have some type of mixture enriching device incorporated into their carburetors.
Quote from: QBS on July 31, 2014, 01:30:51 PM
13.5 vdc is proper at idle or any other time. It's not wrong. Easy cold start and hard hot start, to me, would generally indicate that some adjustment in the carb is rich. Most gasoline internal combustion engines like a rich mixture to start from cold. Not so much when hot. That's why carbureted gasoline engines have some type of mixture enriching device incorporated into their carburetors.
well,i was thinking about that too,because carbs have not been adjusted till end,because when riding now i cant reach max rpm-1gear some 6-7k; 2-7k ;3 -8k rpm.Need to adjust that,and then i will see.
Because really even when the battery is sucked out (after when i could not start it hot)cold starts from 1-2 rounds
Guerrero, did you change the rubber fittings under the carburetors? I noticed that they are different in low power version, please see pictures in topic "Help - 'simple' exchange of camshafts possible?".
the rubber intakes?yes,ofcourse.they are different,i know about that,and i got new ones,well not new,bot the right one's for normal version.
If your bike won't rev out then the carb is rich which can be caused by missing vent lines off the carbs. The vent lines need to be in place and routed as they were from the factory. They should terminate in the hollow frame space under the battery. There is a hole there that they go through. Check and see.
I can see where pinched hoses would cause fueling issues - bowls slow to fill/lean perhaps? But I would not have thought missing vent hoses would be necessarily detrimental. What process is at play?
well today again.run for some 30min to work.everithing run perfect.but almost at the end somehow engine died,and while hot,could not start.drained battery.left to cool for 20min,and started from half turn :D will change jets to half size smaller.lets see how that goes.
p.s. but actually after i upgraded to full power version the stumble what i got ,and why i started this thread has gone completly.runs smooth.today even could rev up to some 8k (did not need to do more) and the power increase is quite nice. so i am happy with atleast that.
I guess,if i will be able to complete the problems with hot starting,then my V is ready to go for full time job =)
p.s.s. i think that handlebar mirrors and drl i put on looks quite nice.and leds are draining much less voltage.actually voltmeter is not showing any voltage drop,when i turn drl on.that is nice.tail lights aswell with led bulbs.
The issue with the vent hoses is at speed there is higher pressure under the tank where the open vents are. If the vent hoses are run to the area they are supposed to be then they get atmospheric pressure and thus don't run rich. Higher pressure in the bowls will act on the fuel and give you a richer mixture.
I thought the vent hoses ran to the enricher / choke circuit. I'll have to have another look when the weather is better
The vent hoses run off the top of the carbs at the rear left corner, on the 83's anyway. I am pretty sure the 82's do also. It takes a fairly long hose to reach the spot they need to go to.
i found only 1 hose running to that hole.if i am right?the hole before the absorber?between battery and tci.
I'm not sure what you are calling an absorber, but the hole is in the top of the frame section between the battery and tci. There should be a separate hose from each carb going into the hole unless they were y'd together into one
i am not sure how it is called on english,but i gues motorcycle absorber(in google at pfotos it shows the right thing,what i ment) =) ok,will look closer at that.as i can see,only one tube is going in to that hole from top.But i am not sure where is it starting,from one carb or both.
Didn't know that about the vent tubes. Makes sense but more tubes floating around sure will clutter things up.
Guerro, my bike isnt too happy starting from hot either. I suspect that it is valve clearances as has already been mentioned. I'm looking to get them sorted before next season so I can eliminate one more variable.
I am glad to hear that you are now running without a stumble. What did you do between the two posts to get rid of that?
Quote from: jefferson on August 01, 2014, 09:30:55 AM
The issue with the vent hoses is at speed there is higher pressure under the tank where the open vents are. If the vent hoses are run to the area they are supposed to be then they get atmospheric pressure and thus don't run rich. Higher pressure in the bowls will act on the fuel and give you a richer mixture.
I thought that's where you were going with that which would explain why they route them to a "calm air" place.
I am thinking that alot of the hot start problems are due to the heat soaking of the carb. and thus the fuel. Then you also have the air underneath the tank that is hot from sitting above the engine. What you have is hot thin air that doesn't send a good signal to the carb and the carb is full of really hot fuel. Probably not a very good recipe for firing up. If there is a breeze blowing I would think that pointing the bike into the wind when you park it would help with removing the hot air when it is parked.
pinholenz-i just upgraded to full power and the stumble disappeared.
It would not be a problem if V would start harder when hot,if coming from shop or something=) as Bike is getting cool really fast,if compaired to car.But biggest problem,than in a traffic if V dies,and the lights go green,and i am sitting in a middle of the road.and cant do a thing.darn.
There are several things you've done to fix the hot starting problems - eliminating the YICS and replacing the cracked rubber intake manifolds, etc. I did the same things and they helped, but replacing the throttle shaft seals eliminated the symptoms completely.
that is interesting theory.need to have a look at that
Rigubun,but could you explain me please,how it works,and how it would help?
Again let me stress getting my bike to the point it is now required a bit of time, trial and error and going through the electrical, fuel and cooling systems several times. Hugely important is clean fresh fuel exiting a clean tank to clean carbs. A fuel filter is added as extra protection, NOT because it is needed outright.
I started with a good top end i.e pistons, rings, cylinder walls, and valves all in serviceable condition and valve lash in spec. Not knowing the health of the top end doesn't guarantee success or failure but without these basic elements in place, you are wasting your time.
The last thing I did was change the throttle shaft seals. It was not a magic bullet but rather the last piece of the puzzle in my case. The original seals are hard and leaking air. You can not adjust the carbs or re-jet to tune the problem away. The vacuum leak they provide is variable and temperature sensitive.
I can not explain the entire process in this post but do encourage you to search the forum and you will find quite a bit of information on the subject. The process is easy for some and challenging for others. For some it is beyond their abilities and must be entrusted to a competent mechanic.
Depending on many factors some bikes can run OK with the old seals but many do not. Some owners are often chasing gremlins that may be simply worn seals. More often the case is multiple problems making accurate diagnosis and repair difficult.
Nice post Rikugun - and all quite true.
You neglected to say that getting those screws off the throttle valve is a complete arse and you will probably end up drilling them out, The seals are available from Yamaha for about $6 each I think. There's a part number on the forums somewhere on the forums, and one of John's excellent videos.
I'd also check pilot screw for correct adjustment and carb sync, as these are major adjustment fault areas. One would hope Guerrero did the lash when he replaced his cams.
I purposely left specifics out of my post. There are too many variables and steps to cover and I'd end up droning on for several pages.
Good point Rikugun, can't have you droning on. Asking "what's wrong with my bike" is a bit like asking "how big is my tockley" No-one can say except by going round and seeing for themselves.
There comes a time when a man has to read the manuals.
When did the analogy "how long is a piece of string?" become redundant? :o
Dear fellows!!!! Guyzz,i have wonderfull news!
My V now is completly working(fingers cross,i hope nothing is going to go wrong)
What i did,was put inside smaller jets,some of you will say,that it is wrong,but atleast it works. so jets are 115/120 instead of 120/125
About valve clearance-when i upgraded cams the adjustements were already made,and the gap was adjusted,so it should not be the problem.
So now,i dont have any stumble.And V starts as cold,as hot equally,0,5-2 turns.
NOw only problem is that my petcock is wet,i cant say that it leaks a lot of fuel,but it is all wet=) but i ordered repair kit(all rubber thing) i hope it will cure the leaks.
One problem,that my clutch lever was completly dead,and i could not do anything about that,so i took at local shop only option what i had,from some old yamaha.(something choppery) now works good,only the clutch lever now is silver..but in time when i will be again good with money(as now i am copletly sucked out becuase of 2 thing-my V :) and my boy,who is now 1,5 month!!!!) so maybe i will change both levers,or atleast maybe i will by same for the right side.I thing that this silver lever looks pretty good.
p.s. I am soo happy now,finaly! 3 years,and now she runs.!!! :angel: 8) :D :)
yeyy me..rode for 2 days.and my engine died.it just stucked(i dont know how it is called right in english)starter can not turn it.Took off left cover,tried to turn engine with me hands,but could do only half a turn..
i am completely broken-hearted..
There is a mechanical reason for this, somewhere. You must look at the oil for evidence of metallic particles and hope there are none.
When you try to rotate the engine by hand does it offer resistance, like dragging, or does it have free movement and abruptly stops like a piston is bumping valves?
half turn is medium power,as it was before,when everithing seemed allright.it does 1" puff",i guess compression or something.But i can make only half turn to one or the other side.then it stops,and i cant move it any further.
Got it to shop.Dont have time for myself.even somwhere deep inside me,i dont want to do anything..just disappointed a bit..thought that finally everithing is good.
BTW., bought from ebay repair kit for petcock for 16 usd.changed everithing.now have no leaks or anithing.looks good.just dont know,how long will it be like that.
Has your starter clutch had the reattachment upgrade done on it?
That would be the starter clutch with it's three bolts ;)
i understand.well,i guess now i will have to do that.I hope that there has not been done any major damage.
Why i did not "upgrade" clutchy thing?-because i could not take off the flywheel my self.Had no tools for that.could only take the big bolt off.
But now have dilemma-to buy H Africa or Yama TDM =),so i would have riding bike,that should not have unexpected problems.and so i can work with V.
just need to go and rob some bank ;)
Honda Africa Twin? We can only dream of those bikes, I have never seen one or any for sale. The Trans Alp is about the most similar and they are very rare here.
TDM 850 has 5 speed transmission while the TDM 900 has 6 speed.
We have a lot of dominators/transalp/africas.
Africa indeed is the best.But kind of expensive-starting from 5k usd. Transalp about the same price,but he is weak,especially for 2 people.Dominator is a lot cheaper.But still not so powerfull.
Yeah i would love to take tdm 900,6 speed,and no carbs.but the price is high too.where tdm850 is only 2-3k usd.
Dear Visioniers.
My situation update of dead engine:
I am in big pain with it.
The front cylinder is kaputt.The piston kissed valves and 2 of them broke.Cant tell why,it seems that timing gone wrong or something.I cant tell for sure.
Now the question is,is it possible to get new valves and piston and rings?(is it worth of getting new ones)Or can i get only used?
I need for front cylinder piston,4 valves,rings and upper and lower gasket for both cylinders(want to open and check the rear one too)
How much can it all cost me?
Please,i would really appreciate any info about this.new and/or used parts.
Gaskets i think anyway should be new.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KR-Motorcycle-engine-complete-gasket-set-for-YAMAHA-XZ-550-S-11U-82-84-/171289106237?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27e1a0573d&vxp=mtr these are the right one?
Hope on your help guys.
The kindest advice I could give is to use the money you will spend on parts and start saving for a newer bike that doesn't need so much work. I'm not sure if you own a car but if not, that would be a more practical choice. If you choose wisely, cost of operation can be lower on a car.
What so you think he should get? A Moskvich? The same will happen to a car if the cam timing is maladjusted. But cars are a lot harder to work on with budget equipment.
XZ parts are not too rare - there are new and used pistons and rings on ebay now.
I have dodge grand caravan.any way i need to buy one more car,but what to do with V?no one will buy it...i have spent a lot of money in to it...ofcourse i would like to buy newer bike,but that is not so easy..
So you say,that pistons and valves i can get new?ok.and gasket set,is that the right one,i linked in prewious post?
I'd recommend buying a complete engine if possible. I have an engine I'm thinking about tearing down if you should want used parts. BDC
complete engine..it will cost me a fortune,i guess.And the shipping cost?i am afraid,that it will be too expensive..
New pistons and rings and valves are not available from Yamaha, though valve seals and guides are. Everything else you need can be found new or used on Ebay.
You are in for some major expense - and a very steep learning curve. Don't discount importing a whole running engine. It might be cheaper from Germany than the USA
Yes that's a correct gasket set.
just that i thought,where is guarantees,if i buy a running engine,that it wont blow in like 5 miles? darn.this is so hard..
Need to figure this out
No Guarantees that if you do the work yourself it won't blow up in 5 miles ether.
Thats why i wonr do it my self.i would like to sell the V.but i think it is impossible..who need this old crap..
It's probably broken because you mis-set the cam timing. No need to get angry at the bike for that. A more modern bike would be just as broken, and just as expensive to fix.
Rather than lose any more money, might be time to move on to something else. My experiences over the years has taught me to not trust anyone doing engine work. I only buy new engines or known good motors from old cars. Still got screwed by VW in 1968 with a new engine. BDC
I want to move on too.just dont know,what to do with this one.bought it for 1k usd.and spend on it 2k usd.And now this...
Ooowww! :'( :o :( That is a painful education. Maybe you can sell XZ parts to regain most of your investment. I think it would take a long time to part out a XZ. So close to the achievement of having a running vision, yet so far. it could happen.
yes,it is really painful.3 years.3k usd,and ...no actual joy.even,i really like V visually and everithing.but this is too hard.
problem is,for me it will be impossible to sell V.Maybe only in parts for Germany.but i am not sure..
well,i am working now with xz550.de and it seems maybe i will be able to get spair parts from Germany ,because from USA of course the prices are much better,but the shipping to me is like 3 times the price of item..
And in you country aren't any XZ for sale? In Czech Republic are only 2-3 times a year. Last year I bought one whole spare bike about 300 USD. But she is non running, some parts are home-repaired and not good :-\. Germany or Poland are certainty.
In my country there is only 1 more Vision.In whole three baltic countries there are no more V.So it is really hard
Yes I know, that is hard. I also have another unique bike in my country, but I bought two at once and now I have problems with registration.
I 'd like you help with front cylinder, but on my spare bike are welded exhausts holders on cylinder head. It probably worked, but looks not nice. If will xz550.de fails, we could to agree.
today got battery wire set from Tiger.There was some postage problem,i guess,because it took almost month to get to me,it should be 5-10 days.But wires are here.
I mean they are fantastic!! Same thicknes as mine but WOW.=) now only need to get my cylinder working,so i can change those wires
One month International postage is normal from Canada. I think they have to wait for ice to melt before anything gets out of the country.
Hello bikers :D
I am back with my problems.actually,now i have some money,and in a few days will buy a cylinder set from germany.so shipping costs are much more welcome for me,than from US.I Will make a deal with Harald from xz550.de .maybe some of you know him.
And i need gaskets for cylinders.
Do some of you know anithing about this set on ebay?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/KR-Motorcycle-engine-complete-gasket-set-for-YAMAHA-XZ-550-S-11U-82-84-/171289106237?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27e1a0573d&vxp=mtr
I cant understand is this set for one cylinder or both?or do i just need to ask the seller?
Have a nice weekend You all!Tom
Looks to me like you have two of everything Tom. BDC
Is that Harald Pfeiffer? He is a good fellow to deal with.
Ok great thanks. :)
I Do not know Haralds surname.But probobly he is that man.Really helpfull.
So i hope in this winter i will get my V running again :)
Hello friends.
Some time have not wrote anithing.
So here is some little update of my situation.
Have to say huge "thank You' to Harald Pfeiffer.Who helped me alot.I got whole cylinder set ,and as it later turned out that i need more, so i got camshaft chains set and chain guide set.and that everithing from one engine.As Harald said,the engine was about 20k or 30k km,so it is really little.the whole thing really looks great.
At the moment everithing is getting done,just i have one small problem,i had to change both chains and both sets of guides.But Unfortunately Harald had only one "banana" , as he called that part.I was O.k, with that,because i hoped,that i wont need to change both of them,because at that moment only one cylinder was distmantled.But as it turned out,i need second one too.
So at the moment i am thinking what to do,and where to get only that one small part.Ebay,is not an option,because as i seen,there are selling only whole sets,and the shipping costs and everything are huge for so small items.So i guess,i need to find in Germany,or around.
Btw i bought complete engine gasket set from Poland,for 109 usd,i guess,from ebay.And i can say,that the set is really good.It has all details.all O rings,all gaskets,the 4 metal rings for exaust,and the green little metallic/plastic thing.wich i cant remember are for what :) but the set is good.So if some one ever need one,i guess maybe for people in the America that is not an option because of shipping and everithing,but from Europa -great.
So my idea was,that i will be able to get my back from shop till X-mass,the weather now got much warmer in last week-from about 0 celsius to 8°.So ridable conditions.but now i have to find the one missing part.
Just sharing my situation.And again, thanks to Harald Pfeiffer.And if some one ever need to do some buisness,i advise him completly.Great Man.
Cheers,Happy upcoming hollydays!
Tom, send a picture of the part you need and if I have it, I'll send it to you for the cost of postage. BDC
The part is like this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-CAM-CHAIN-GUIDE-XZ550-VISION-11H-12252-00-/330629657302?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4cfb1032d6&vxp=mtr with the metal thing on the end.
I've got it and it looks good. Hopefully postage will be cheaper than buying it from Poland. Tell me what the price has to be under and I'll ship it tomorrow if I can save you money. BDC
Good evening!
I am back! :)
After spending huge amount of money on parts and work.it seems that now it must be done.Just one more thing left.Jets!!
Aaand i do not have them.I got new jets from Carb kit that i bought few years ago,but they somehow got away from me :)And most interesting part is i am not able to get them anywhere in my country,it seems.little bit strange but oh well,(ok,i have not tried official dealer yet)
Wanted to know is it possible to somehow order from states or somewhere just 122,5 and 127,5?? and how much can it cost?
Good day to every one!,Tom
You can order online from Jetsrus.com. Much cheaper than Yamaha dealers !
Great thank You.
Hey guyz.wanted to be sure.starter clutch is the thing that lets the starter to turn engine,and not the oppiosite?and it has springs and those 3 bolts that are always loosing right??.if so,thenmy starter clutch is going to end.Maybe some one have any offers for me?would be nice.
Tom
Yes. The symptom of starter clutch attachment failure is a ticking noise at idle that disappears above 2500 rpm. This is a factory defect. No V fails to exhibit this failure. The noise usually begins around 12-15 k miles As time passes the tick becomes louder and more knock like but still disappears above 2500 rpm. As the fatal end nears, the knock becomes very loud and resembles a really bad rod or main bearing. It gets so bad that you are sure that a rod is fixin to see daylight. But, the noise still disappears above 2500 rpm.
IMHO this problem is what led to the discarding of so many Vs with less that 30,000 miles on their odometers. The mechanics of the day heard the sound and, not being familiar with the V, diagnosed a bad bearing, which if true, could only be repaired by a complete and expensive engine tear down. The owners decided to throw the bikes away instead of pouring $ into them. Thus, leading to another of the V curses.
The inexpensive and relatively easy reattachment repair is permanent. Overall, a sad turn of events.
that is a sad story.in my case thee problem why i want to change starter clutch is,that at starting the V it turns,turns, the engine,and at some moments like slips,with big clanck.(the odometr jumps to 2-3krpms) cant tell that i have some problems with it while the engine is running.i guess no.but the thing i do not like,that the starting is kind of slipping.
ok i read posts about metallic clunk and everithing.Well even the battery is dead(was not mine battery,.just had to try to start bike)it was connected to charger and the clunk was still there.The gears are all fine.But the clutch it self is in really bad condition,because previous owner already tried to somehow repair it by him self,and i guess made it even worse.drilled some new holes for those 3 screws and something like that.
So main question is,is it possible to get starter clutch in working condition?how much can it cost?or should i just weld it permanently? how bad it is after?please explain that to me :)
Welding a very bad plan. Best option is a complete alternator rotor and and starter clutch replacement with good used parts. Replacement starter clutches might still be available dealer new.
Unless your clutch is actually cracked a replacement will not help. If you can't replace the screws and get it nice and tight, then perhaps consider drilling out a size larger and tapping
Also check that all the little bits are there - there should be 3 springs, pins and rollers
alright.will try to put bigger screws inside.and if what,replacement just springs rollers and pins are possible,right?
Guerrero, you must make a close visual inspection of your starter clutch. First, check for any cracks. If it is cracked it is broken and needs to be replaced. Second, check the condition of the rollers and the surfaces they work against for any ripples or uneven surface wear. The contact surfaces must be smooth. The springs might become worn and break, but if they are all in good condition can be used again.
The starter clutch is available from a Yamaha dealer, it fits V-Max and other models.
You can get springs, rollers and pins as a kit on ebay
Slightly off topic: Sometimes my starter clutch slips. Perhaps weak springs? What causes this slippage?
I would think that weak springs, poor contact of rollers, and slow turnover of engine are the only things that would let the clutch slip. BDC
I saw something on the XS forum about taking the shine off of the area where the roller makes contact. I would say it gives the roller something to bite into.
What happened?please advice!finaly rode my bike.everithnig was nice.went home,and wanted to change power cables that i got from tiger.i did that,and now when ingition is on the oil lamp(red one)is not coming on,aand i have no charging.what happened?cant find any loose wire:(:(:(
Have you checked fuses? BDC
:) heh,that is the thing,i have not thought of,yet.:) will have a look tomorrow.thanks for idea
Hopefully you did not mix up the plugs that go to the Rectifier/Regulator and the TCI ignition box. They look and fit the same, but will KILL your ignition box if installed wrong. :police:
You probably bumped a wire loose somewhere. Maybe a wire is corroded and broken under the plastic insulating cover, just at the end by a terminal where you can not see it well.
well i did not disconnect/reconnect any other wire,than 2 power cables,that i was changing.So no mix up :) hope,i can find just some loose connection.strange thing is,that oil lamp is not coming up,but Neutral is working
Make certain that oil pressure light bulb is good and check that oil pressure switch wires have good connections. BDC
Funny.i was in a hurry yesterday,when changing those power cables.today opened everithing,and the positive cable from r/r under the tci unit was disconnected:) so just pluged that in.and now everithing works smooth:):) thanks everu one.and be carefull when doing electronics,so little mistake,totally.unharmfull,but so much nerves and panic :laugh:
I'm glad you got it sorted out and all is well. :)
Hello every one.I am back! :)
Finally had time to work with bike.
At last carbs are done,with stock jetting.nicelly sinced,and now it runs smooth.
Have one little problem left,and cant figure out,what is the problem-
Bought a new battery-yuasa company.So when engine is cold it starts from half turn.and every one are satisfied:)But as soon as the engine gets hot,it is almost impossible to start the bike.and the by that i mean,not that starter turns for long time,and nothing is going on,BUT,it seems like the battery has not enough power,like it would be quite empty.Just as engine gets cold/er starts from half turn.
Any ideas?Maybe problems with starter?and as it gets hot it is harder to turn?
Have a great day,Tom
What is the starters' history?
2 or 3 years ago used starter's repair kit from ebay,because the coils went dead(got too short)So changed everything that came in the kit-coils,rubbers,and i do not know how to call them in english-metallic kind of bearings,in which the starter it self and little gears are turning.I have not made a lot km from that time because of all my other troubles.But i do not know,what is going on in the starter at the moment.Have idea,to take it off and check
With engine hot, connect a 12v auto battery directly to the starter motor. +lead to the starter motor power point, - lead to the Vision engine, bike in neutral. See what happens and let us know. If the starter motor is in good condition the engine should crank fast.
ok,thanks.will try
So,now i have come to something-even that i rebuilt starter few years ago,it seems that the main the rotor it self,or maybe main bearings are worn out.I have not yet opened the starter,just removed it.
So,when the engine gets hot and i need to start it,starter axle is changing the angle and shortening the battery and everything.Good that i pfound out it just now,so i hope i can save my newly bought Yuasa batt,.
One more question,how much voltage would be good from stator at 5k rpm??i got about 90v between each wires.Some say 50 is good,some say 150. At idle i got about 30-35v.And i have actually some charging problems at the moment.Because i have tried new chinese r/r-it gave me somewhere 13,4 at 5k.Put on cbr900 r/r and got without lights on 13.7-13.8,with lights 13,6-7 i Guess i need more
Little update of situation,if some one is interested.
Engine still runs great:)
Problem is still there,i cant start engine while hot.Tried different batteryes,and only "hells machine"-soviet launch system that gives 15v can start the engine.
I do not want to say any bad word about Tiger,NO.,but his wire set of power leads was a dissapointment...i put them on.and the negative wire connector just came off,it was held in place just by rubber kembrik(the rubber thing that closes the connection place)so the connector just came off.there where no marks of solder or anything.too bad,40 usd thrown in to trash.but you know,how they say-"the poorman pays twice" so.after i put back negative lead from some honda.And changed battery to starter relay wire too.everithing looks nice now.Soldered the R.R unit,and now without light i get up to 13.9 V chargin.Wich is nice.
Now still need to understand why starter has problems to start.(the engine is turning freely,so not a problem of that.)
Oh and had to change gears in the starter motor,because the bearing(not bearing but ring things that are in those gears)were worn out.Changed them and the big gear around them.and now the motor is turning good.
Have a good day,comments are Welcome ,Tom
Quote from: Guerrero on June 03, 2015, 12:36:43 PM
Little update of situation,if some one is interested.
Engine still runs great:)
Problem is still there,i cant start engine while hot.Tried different batteryes,and only "hells machine"-soviet launch system that gives 15v can start the engine.
I do not want to say any bad word about Tiger,NO.,but his wire set of power leads was a dissapointment...i put them on.and the negative wire connector just came off,it was held in place just by rubber kembrik(the rubber thing that closes the connection place)so the connector just came off.there where no marks of solder or anything.too bad,40 usd thrown in to trash.
The measure of a manufacturer is not just the quality of their product, but how they handle things when they go wrong (which they inevitably do from time to time). Did you bother to talk to Tiger about this issue?
no,i did not.this happened today.I bought the wire set little less than year ago.I do not see any reason for talking to Tiger.As i said.i have nothing against him.I do not say,that he is bad,or that he makes bad wire sets.No.Just thing happened with me.its a pitty
At the moment i am more interested,does really nobody have any ideas,or solution about my starting problem?
I have a theory,maybe thermo sensor or switch is faulty?because bike runs quite in red line,when the fan kick's in.Maybe some how the switch does not let engine to crank,while hot?
There's no thermo switch.
You can easily isolate - there are only a few items in the circuit
jumper leads straight to starter
a starter relay click
12V at starter relay
etc
it seems that starter motor is bad. :( any ideas how much can cost starter motor?and maybe there are any other model match???
Pull the starter motor apart (again) and run the tests in haynes. You may be able to clean up the copper and possibly new brushes from a rebuild kit (ebay)
copper has been already cleaned.and everithing including brushes that came with repair kit i already installed 2 years ago.Since then i have not ride a lot.
In the planetary reduction gear box, make certain that the centers of the posts that the outer/planetary gears ride on are directly across from each other through the center of the center/sun gear post. If the outer gears are even one tooth out of place the starter will not turn as freely as it needs to.
ok,thanks.will check that.
Personally I would check:
- battery is ok
- regulator works fine when running
- spark plugs are ok
- mixture and idling are correctly adjusted
- valves are correctly adjusted
Check that choke cable works fine so that when you put if off the choke really goes off from the carburetors. This may cause that engine starts good in cold but not at all when hot.
Check also that idling and mixture are correctly adjusted. Start engine and then start to turn mixture screw until the rpms stop rising and then take a little bit back. Same for the both carburetors. Be patient when turning, wait a moment after turning. At this stage don´t mind if the rpms are too high or too low. When the mixture is correctly adjusted adjust just the idling for the correct rpms.
Valves are also quite common reason with starting problems when motor is hot. If they are too tight adjusted they don´t close but stay open when the motor is hot. And when the motor is cooled they work fine.
As i said.Battery is 1 month old.Have tried 4 batteries with this problem.R?R is working good.Charging sistem goes up to 14.0v now.plugs are good.Mixture and everithing about carbs are smooth.Just synced.As i said,problems is not that engine cant start,even that starter motor is turning(like it would just overfloating with fuel) No.the oproblem is that starter motor just is not turning the engine when it gets hot.Just like half turn and stops,half turn and stops.Like not enough power.And starter motor gets very hot of that really fast,And btw drains battery with this.
I figured out,that i just have to change the starter.Because everithing has been changed and adjusted as ist should be.It is not that i am working by meself.Last 2 weeks or even more like 4 mechanics(and really good ones).and electrycian are working on it :)So everithing is set up as good as it can be for bike 30 years old.But starter motor has come to an end
Poor performance when hot may indicate a bad commutator and/or armature winding(s). "Replacing parts does not a rebuild make"
The commutator needs to be cut smooth and the insulation undercut a bit. You can also do ohm checks from segment to segment to look for bad windings.
you mean commutator of starter motor,right?so called anker?
It is hadr to tell what is the problem.The repair kit has been used on motor.The commutator has been checked on big stand for electromotors.
My guess is that,the starter motor some was broken fizikally,the part where gearbox sits.the one "ear" where bolt goes was broken.And then reweld.and possibly some how changed geometry.so when engine gets hot and it gets harder to turn it,startger motor some how fails?
worst thing is that because this bike is so rare,there is no chance of experimenting..
I could just take starter motor from different bike and try it out.But where will i get it? :)
Does any other starter motor fit Vision?or no?
Guerrero, have you measured what comes to starter from the solenoid? Is the solenoid original? I did have also badly corroded lead also from the solenoid to the starter.
No other bike has the same motor.
There are two for sale on ebay right now
I am aware of those on ebay.
My leads should not be the problem,as i tried to jump start strait to themotor.but the result is the same
Cant figure out what could cause the problem.the engine itself is turning freely with compression and good.cold and hot.but starter motor feels like when is hot,get shortening somwhere.but as i sayd with launcher 15v i can start it even hot.not always but often:)
Ankor's axle and the end bushing have 1 hundred of milimetr difference.can that make a problem?