Riders Of Vision

Hey guys, I've had a good hunt through the threads and just wanted to check whether there is anything else I should consider regarding a recurring problem.

After my bike had sat for a while as a POR-15'd my tank, the first ride I took it on it felt dreadfully underpowered. It wasn't missing or bogging, just felt like it it was trying  to draw air through a stack of pillows. In first gear up a moderate hill it was close to stalling. The bike sounded more like a traditional 4-stroke, it was hard to get the revs up anywhere near the screamy level we all know and love and the exhaust note had definately become more muted.

I'd had the airbox off at the time and figured there may have been a bit of an issue so I checked and found that I had neglected to reconnect the tubes that go from the cylinder heads to the airbox. I reconnected these and the problem seemed to disappear, but returned again a couple of times intermittently. It now seems to be here to stay.

The bike had been sold to me with no air filter installed  >:( and after sifting through the possibilities I'm thinking that the carb is probably clogged. My other theory is that it is running on one cylinder.

So far I have:

Checked fuel flow from tank
Checked all tubes around airbox/carb/Yics
Checked spark plug caps and ignition wires under RH cover

Next I will:

Replace plugs and check for decent spark...maybe in the other order.
Remove gas cap and check tank is venting
Clean carbs
Spray some WD-40 and look for vacuum leaks.

Other notes:

I now have an air filter compliments of Roro, this hasn't made anything better or worse.
I replaced the petcock on my tank around the same time. I have never had an original on there, only a standard yamaha one with an on/off/reserve. Therefore it isn't vacuum operated as far as I'm aware. Would I benefit from an original?
Where is the tube from the top of the airbox meant to go? Mine is cut off about 1 inch. I originally though it was just a vent but have now released that if I suck on it the flapper opens....so this should be attached to something somewhere?
Around the same time of these issues I have also replaced the headlight, indicators, speedo, changed the oil and had the starter apart a couple of times but I can't think how this may have contributed.

Any further thoughts would be appreciated.

Your biggest problem seems to be your flapper.  This should attach to the front carb - see the Intake and Carburetor Modification Kit (https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B5rMo73UpmHbSFBZREhZcGpVMHM) documentation for a pic
If it doesn't flap open you will get not much air - that won't help matters.  If you can't figure out where to plug it, you may not have an updated carb top. and both carb tops will look identical.

You can check both cyls are firing by wetting a finger and tapping it on the exhaust header.

The aftermarket petcock is good as it stops a jammed float valve from dumping the contents of your fuel tank onto the garage floor.  I don't think it would affect running, though make sure the hose from the manifold is capped off - air leaks there will severely impact running.

Thanks Roro!

I located a stray tube that comes off a top right hand port of the Carb (haven't been able to download that diagram youlinked yet) but it appears this is the tube to the flapper. There is also a port on the top left hand side of the Carb with nothing coming from it...would this have originally led to the petcock?

I tried your finger on the header trick after a short ride. Front headers were hot, back were warm at best. Confirmed only one cylinder was firing by pulling the rear spark plug cap off. It made no difference.Time to get the manual out again!

The front manifold has 2 outlets - one blocked off, one to the fuel pump
The rear manifold has 1 outlet - to the petcock.

When syncing, you normally connect to the blanked off, and the petcock outlets, and set the petcock to PRIME.
If you have the petcock hose dangling and not sealed, you will run very poorly.

Sorry for the bad link.  Try this...
XZ550 (11J) Intake and Carburetor Modification Kit 1982 Models (https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B5rMo73UpmHbSFBZREhZcGpVMHM)

Roro can you take a picture of the one going to the fuel pump for me? I think mine is connected wrong.

Doc, the two on the front, one on the back thing may not be written in stone. If they've been removed and replaced front to back (I think that's possible?) then it will be backwards. Also, I think some replacement manifolds may both have come with only one vacuum port each? As long as it goes to one of the ports on the rubber manifolds you'll be OK.  :)

My engine is on the bench with no carbs - some good pics in Haynes though.

Good point about some being backwards - it seems mine was wrong.  On closer inspection of the parts diagrams the factory config is petcock and fuel pump off the double front manifold and the single rear is capped.  I doubt any of the possible combinations would make a substantial difference.  Sorry if I caused concern.

On my rebuild I think I'll use two front manifolds so I can just plug the sync tool in without removing anything.  I'll use some long capped hose so I won't burn fingers on the hot engine.

Photos of 83'carb

Great pics, thanks cvincer

I had the same problem with my bike running on just one cylinder for no apparent reason after I started working on it. I concluded that it was a faulty spark cap after I had replaced the spark plugs, HT Leads and checked out the coils. (If you want some cheap Iridium plugs, PM me, I have some extras.  I also have a spare coil if you need one - postage only.) I got my new NGK spark plug caps from Repco. About $32 for the pair I think.

My guess is that the spark is the problem. But just make sure that the float valve isn't jammed on the rear carb preventing any fuel from getting in. Try opening the drain cap on the rear carb with the tank in place and valve on reserve (or PRI if you have replaced the petcock). It should keep draining freely of course.

And its worth leaving the battery on charge overnight just to make sure that isn't playing silly buggers.

Cheers

Quote from: roro on June 18, 2013, 08:18:12 PM
On my rebuild I think I'll use two front manifolds so I can just plug the sync tool in without removing anything. I'll use some long capped hose so I won't burn fingers on the hot engine.

I did something similar. I installed a "T" fitting in the petcock vacuum hose and capped off the third leg. To sync the carbs, just uncap and use that "remote" port and run the bike normally with the petcock "ON". The cap is easier to get to. Also, it always bothered me to carefully sync the carbs then plug the petcock into one cylinder. This way, the carbs are sync'd with the petcock influence accounted for.

Yes, it's overkill.  :-[  Later tests revealed it makes no never mind but it is easier to get to and you don't burn your fingers. :P

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I went to check for a spark and I seem to have lost my electrics  >:(
When I hit the starter button I could only hear a click, then the neutral/oil/highbeam lights started flicking on and off. I had a fiddle around the ignition area etc and couldn't find anything loose. I pulled out the instrument bulbs and they were still lit but only a tiny tiny bit. After a while they went out and I couldnt get them back. I recharged the battery but it hasn't helped. Any idea what would show as very weak power? A loose connection? Battery connection is fine, fuses seem ok. I have a multimeter but I'm a bit of a novice with it. The bike just weathered a pretty serious storm down here in wellington. I think it was the only bike on the street to stay upright. It's possible that water got in to something.

A fully charged battery should show approx. 12.6 volts DC at its' terminals with the key off.  Your multimeter should be able to test for that.  Put it in VDC mode and touch the leads to the battery terminals and see what you got.  Connection polarity isn't an issue for this test.  If you're low on voltage charge the battery up and try to start again.  A good charging system should show approx. 13.2 volts DC for this test with the engine running.  Anything less is indicative of a failed stator.

Glad to hear that you survived the worst storm since the Wahine disaster. Reports up here were that you had 15 metre waves and 200 kph winds and that the power outages have been pretty serious for a lot of people. If the battery is charging OK and your multimeter shows 12.2 to 12.6 volts at the battery terminals, start checking upstream if the lights are dim. I would start with you main fuse and make sure its not corroded, then trace the black earth wire to the frame/starter to make sure its not loose/rusty.

OT, I was at a photography Conference this weekend in Auckland. One of our keynote speakers was Ingvar Keene who, with another beginner rider, did a 2 year world trip on his motorbike. Mostly photographed portraits during his trip. Thought you might be interested in a fellow traveller of the less explored highways.
http://www.ingvarkenne.com/ingvarkenne_personal.html

Cheers

Quote from: QBS on June 24, 2013, 12:55:42 AM
A fully charged battery should show approx. 12.6 volts DC at its' terminals with the key off.  Your multimeter should be able to test for that.  Put it in VDC mode and touch the leads to the battery terminals and see what you got.  Connection polarity isn't an issue for this test.  If you're low on voltage charge the battery up and try to start again.  A good charging system should show approx. 13.2 volts DC for this test with the engine running.  Anything less is indicative of a failed stator.

Digital meters will just show negative volts (eg -12.3) if you get the polarity wrong.  Connection polarity can be an issue if you have an old fashioned analog meter - the gauges only work one way, and will burn out on higher reversed voltages.  It's generally good practice to identify your polarities and use them correctly.  There are plenty of multimeter tutorials on youtube.

Check the electrolyte levels before charging.

Yeah it was a pretty gnarly couple of days. The coast took a hiding. I have a friend who lives near the beach and she found a 6 inch seahorse in her back yard...Lots of power lines down, I was lucky not to walk into one at waist height in the dark.

A scooter on my street had its seat blown off so I wouldn't be surprised if something on my bike has come a little loose.

Thanks for the tips on the multi metering, I'll try that when I get home. I did notice that there is a single black wire under the RH side cover that isn't connected to anything. It has a single connector on the end so it hasn't come out of one of the multi-block connectors. Can't find anything for it to plug in to. When Pinholez mentions the "black earth wire that runs to the frame/starter", this is not the black wire that leads to the terminal on the starter, correct? The earth for the starter is the frame itself? I haven't bumped into the earth/frame contact point yet, could someone point me in the right direction?

Cheers

A frame ground point is under the gas tank at the spark coil mounting point on the frame.  Use the multimeter to find out what the black wire might do.  + or _ key off, key on.

QuoteUse the multimeter to find out what the black wire might do.  + or _ key off, key on

I'm fairly certain all black wires are ground on the Vision. If it's a factory wire in the factory position it may be ground for the left rear turn signal. There should be a dark green that runs adjacent to it.

Is it the rev limiter! Disconnect the yellow/black wire from the TCI and see if that is the problem.

I have no speedo on the bike at the moment so I don't think the rev limiter is the problem

Generally the Rev limiter wire can be cut as a matter of course to prevent problems of it malfunctioning. Its the black and yellow wire coming out of the TCI unit. It is related to the tacho rather than the speedo and when it is operating prevents the engine from screaming its head off in the case of say, an accident where  the throttle has jammed open. The rev limiter cuts the spark to one cylinder in an effort  to reduce engine damage. Most XZ riders just chop it off and tape up the wire to make sure that it doesn't affect their engine performance.

2 steps forward, 1 step back.

I charged my battery and put the multimeter to it, 13.0 volts. Before I reconnected it I gave the terminals and the battery leads a good brush with a file and that seemed to solve the electrical problem.

I fired the bike up and it started screaming on both cylinders. I wiggled some wires and realized the HT lead that plugs in to the spark plug cap was loose. Problem solved.

However as it was running along nicely I noticed some smoke from down below and found some oil leaking from the LH engine cover where the starter clutch is accessed. It was dripping on to the hot exhaust headers. After I'd inspected my starter clutch I'd used liquid gasket sealer as the old gasket was toast. Is this an acceptable method or do I need to be using a proper gasket in here?

Anyway, I figured I'd check to see if the hex bolts holding the engine cover were tight and I ended up ripping the engine threads out of one of the bolt holes. Gutted. Im completely inexperienced with helicoil but I'm assuming this is the direction I need to go. Is it reasonably DIY or would I be better off just getting a shop to do it?

Churs.

Sorry to hear about the stripped bolt hole. Don't feel bad, you're not the first. Not everyone has a natural sense of torque.  ;) That comes with experience which by your own admission you lack. Personally I'd don't think the helicoil project is one you should attempt. Get a professional to do it.

To your other question - yes, I'd advise using a gasket on the cover.  :) Tiger may still sell these and they are still available commercially if I'm not mistaken.

Glad to hear that you are not so low on power now! But....

The Stator side covers are still available in New Zealand. I got one about a year ago from a now defunct Yamaha dealer on the North Shore. I would try Maidstone Yamaha in Upper Hutt first. He seems to be your nearest dealer and should be able to get it in.  http://www.maidstoneyamaha.com/

Good luck with the helicoil job. Damn...

About $20 for the gasket from Yamaha but you still need to seal off the stator wires I've found.

If you have a stripped screw, it will be the crankcase that needs repair, not the cover right?
I've had no joy with helicoils, and you would only really use them if you need to retain the same bolt size like a spark plug.  They are installed by re-tapping at a larger size, then inserting the coil so you may just be able to tap out to the next size and get a bigger bolt.  It would depend on which one.  Tapping is DIY, but would advise some practice first.

Alternatively brazing the hole full with something like Ideal720 HTS2000 and re-drill re-tapp.  , or welding, though I'd avoid that due to warpage. This takes a bit of experience

Quote from: Rikugun on June 26, 2013, 07:39:20 AM
Tiger may still sell these...

Yes, I still do, thank you... 8) $10.00 U S D + actual postage.

Re the stripped screw...They should be Allen head socket head screws, not hex head!!

There are several different lengths of screws used to hold the left side engine cover in place...all M6 - (1.0 thread pitch)...from the screw next to (right of) the oil filler hole M6 x 55 and going right (clock wise) M6 x 40 (this one should have a copper washer on it), M6 x 25, M6 x 25, M6 x 25, M6 x 35, M6 x 35, M6 x 35, M6 x 25 and M6 x 25.

LEFT SIDE COVER SCREWS 101   8)...Make a sketch of the left side cover on some cardboard and punch holes were the screws go, then mark the screw sizes beside each hole...you can then insert each screw in to the corresponding hole in your template...which means that you can put the right size screw back in the right hole...(I made mine out of 1/4" white plastic with a gasket traced on and screw sizes marked accordingly in black marker pen)... I also tell you this for another reason ;) You may find that you can insert another longer screw in to the hole that is stripped and pick up on a couple of threads that are still good before you try some kind of repair...or...run an M6 - 1.0 bottoming tap (flat end, not pointed) in to the hole and cut a couple of new threads to catch on to... :-\  ;)

just my 2 cents worth... ;D

                           

I thought Allen was the Euro term and Hex was the more American way of saying it? Wikipedia agrees they are both the same thing, and also suggests they can be called Unbrako  or Inbus keys...but thats neither here nor there.

I like your idea of trying a longer bolt Tiger. The thread I stripped was the furtherest one to the right from memory, the one closest to the gear shifter. I do my breaking and home and my interneting at work at the moment so I can't confirm what size it is. Could be worth a shot though.

I'll try my local Yamaha guys for a gasket first but it's nice to know there are some floating around.

While I'm here....I've never noticed my fan spinning, but then again I've never been on a ride thats lasted more than about 10 minutes. Should the fan be running often? I'm assuming I can disconnect the fan at it's main harness point and jump my battery to it to check it's working? I have removed my temperature gauge for now but I understand the fan runs off the thermostat which is located on RHS of the engine somewhere?

Just to clarify...Wikipedia is wrong!!!

Allen Socket head cap screws...you insert an Allen key in to the head to loosen/tighten...normally 12.9 grade.

Hex head cap screws... you use a wrench/spanner, socket, etc to loosen/tighten...Normally 8.8 or 10.9 grade

They are two different animals, believe me, I sell hardware (amongst other things) to industry, transport, automotive, motorcycle shops, etc, for a living... ;)

The fan is fused...the fuse holder/fuse (10 amp) is in the headlight bucket. Worth checking.

Remove the gas tank and you will see were the fan and electrical hook up is...you can then check to see if it works... 8)

                     

Tiger makes a very good point about the importance of correct fastener length on this cover or any other assembly for that matter. As a general rule of thumb there is often a visual cue built it. When all the screws are inserted but not yet tightened, they will all have the same reveal. This tells you they are all where they belong. If one screw head seems closer to the case and another is further away than the others, swap them and and it will be right. This example is simplistic of course and in some cases there are 3 or 4 different length screws requiring more juggling around until they all have the same reveal but you can see the concept.  :) Using a template to ensure they go in the way they came out is good assuming the last person who installed the cover put the screws in where they belong.  :o  ;)

The take away here should be the correct length and torque, not which strength/style fastener is used or what they are called. The lowly Phillips head screw can be used and still achieve the very low torque requirement for this application.  Hex head cap screws were probably used as they aren't prone to stripping the head as readily as a Phillips screw. It may have also have been a marketing decision as much as anything else.  ;)

Haha i see. Does that mean I can loosen my Allen bolts with an appropriately sized Hex bolt?

When the bolt came out it had about 7mm of thread with it so I do think it was probably a bit short. I'll blame the PO, mine went back in the way they came out  :D

Rik, thanks for passing on the excellent tip regarding the achievement of similar reveals, so as to determine what goes where.  You didn't say it, but I'm sure you meant that this tip should be employed without the unthreaded piece of the assembly in place.

As an aside, many years ago when I replaced my first stator, I used the procedure outlined in the Haynes manual and traced a template for the engine cover attachment screw locations on a thin sheet of cardboard.  I used the new engine cover gasket that I had bought for the repair as the guide.  The factory gasket turned out to be in such good shape that I have never used the replacement I bought and still have it and the template I made to this day.

I wouldn't hesitate to use a carefully made home produced card board gasket in this location.

Quote from: QBS on June 27, 2013, 06:16:19 PM
You didn't say it, but I'm sure you meant that this tip should be employed without the unthreaded piece of the assembly in place.

If you mean put the cover on the bench and start dropping screws into holes to check reveal then no, that's not a good idea. It's not always the features of the cover alone that dictate screw length. Holes with locating dowels often take a longer screw. Since they don't engage til further into the hole, their installed reveal is still the same as the shorter neighboring screws.  Examine all the screws and holes prior to assembly and pay attention to the clues.

Lay the screws out, install the gasket and cover as you normally would then insert the screws based on your visual inspection. With rare exceptions, all the screws should have the same reveal prior to tightening.  Usually you'll get it right the first go round especially after having done this kind of work for a while.

If it's a brand new engine or one that's known not to have been apart, take the time to make a template if you wish. Even so, come assembly time it makes sense to check your work and template accuracy with a quick visual inspection prior to tightening them. If a screw seems long, probe the hole with a dental pick and mark the length with your thumb nail. Compare the hole depth to the screw. If on the other hand a screw head is nearly touching the case before you've tightened it, it may be too short leaving inadequate thread engagement to carry the required torque load without stripping the aluminum engine case threads.  It's no real trick but rather taking your time and using common sense.  :)

Unfortunately the bolt was the correct length, I'll need to get it retapped. Also...

I'm back to one cylinder again  >:(

Tightening the HT lead to the plug cap was not what corrected the issue and unfortunately the problem is back. I can rule out cap, lead and coil. I swapped the questionable coil into the place of the functioning one and got sparks. No sparks at all when it is plugged into its original connector.

My bike is completely without instrumentation so the yellow/black cutout wire shouldn't be the problem.
Can anyone think of ways to track down the issue. It seems like a loose connection somewhere. I have a multimeter but I'm not very experienced with it.

Cheers

Not sure I'm following you correctly, I can see where you've proved the coil is functioning on the good cylinder but it appears that you could still have a poor connection between the coils' HT lead and cap. Rather than testing possible bad components on a known good circuit, try replacing possible bad components with parts from the working cylinder (coil,HT lead,cap, and spark plug).

Quote
"Tightening the HT lead to the plug cap was not what corrected the issue and unfortunately the problem is back. I can rule out cap, lead and coil. I swapped the questionable coil into the place of the functioning one and got sparks. No sparks at all when it is plugged into its original connector." Unquote

BDC

Sorry, to clear up any confusion : I pulled the suspect coil with the lead and cap in place and connected it to the
other electrical connecter that the other coil was plugged in to. I then tested it with a spare plug grounded on to the engine cylinder. When the coil/lead/cap is connected to the front cylinder electrical connection I can get a spark. When the coil/lead/cap is connected to its original connection (rear cylinder) I get no spark. To me this suggests a problem further down the line.

I have had a situation where the plug seems to fire OK when not under compression and then fails to fire in the cylinder. They are a pain to get at, but have you swapped/replaced the plugs? (My offer of a set of Iridium plugs still stands). Cheers

Although not usually a problem on these bikes, it may be a bad pick-up coil aka trigger coil. There is one for the front and one for the rear cylinder connected to a bracket that resides within the alternator cover. There may be some diagnostic tests outlined in the manual. I wouldn't rule out damaged wires or connections  between the triggers and the ignition module either. There may be a rubbed/chafed wire under the engine cover if those wires weren't routed carefully during a stator swap.

EDIT: I'm unclear as to which cylinder is affected by the rev limiter? Is it the rear? If so, I'd still cut or remove the rev limiter wire at the TCI just to eliminate that as a possibility. I'm guessing if any part of that wire - even with no gages installed- was grounded it would make the TCI unhappy. As a first step maybe unplug the connector at the TCI and test the rev limiter wire for continuity to ground. This is all conjecture BTW as I have no knowledge of how the rev limiter circuit functions.  :-[  :P  :)

Try checking for continuity between two-pin connector (R/W) going to rear coil and 6-pin connector on TCI (R/W) as well as the gray wire running between the same connectors. If these two wires have continuity and the gray wire is not grounded then suspect TCI and and pick-up coils as mentioned by Rikugan.     BDC

Today I disconnected the Y/B wire, no change. I also checked for continuity between the grey and R/W wires and this was fine. My Haynes manual suggests checking for resistance on the pickup coil wires at the TCI connection.It says to connect one lead of the ohmmeter to the black wire and the other to the red , then the white wire. With the ohmeter selector switch in position Rx10 you should get a reading between 99 and 121 ohms or the pickup coil assembly must be replaced. My multimeter didn't have anything marked Rx10 but under the "ohms" Latin logo thing at a value of 200 (from memory) I got readings of 113 & 115 on the two different wires. Then I figured I'd give the TCI connections a clean. I removed the unit and noticed that it had previously been glued back together. Cleaning the connections didn't help but I'm now suspicious of a TCI that's had some DIY work done on it. Is there any way to test the functionality of the TCI without another bike? Do I need to post it off to Roro ;)

Try the link to Leathers  site , he did extensive work with TCI boxes.

Assuming 1 cylinder is firing,  my solution (if you don't have a spare TCI) to deciding if it's the TCI, or pick up sensor, is below.

You just need a couple of bits of wire to connect the 4 prong connector to the TCI.

Obviously have both spark plugs out of the engine when you do this.

Thanks cvincer, very practical diagnostic test.  :)

tig5 - just for clarification, the trigger coils I referenced are called sensors in the drawing supplied by cvincer. I'd guess it's more common for the TCI to go bad and if you had a spare, swapping them is easy to do. Short of that, cvincer's test should do the trick to isolate the problem as being either the rear cylinder's trigger coil or the circuitry in the TCI responsible for the rear cylinder. Just  don't try to run the engine with the triggers coils crossed.   :o  :D

Happy to test your TCI on my XZ if you want to post the it to me. I also have a spare TCI that I recovered from an XZ400. I understand that the XZ400 TCI has a slightly different power band but otherwise works OK. I will be testing this in the weekend to see what happens. If its OK, I am also happy to post it to you for testing. See my PM with contact details etc. Cheers.

Thanks guys, I'll try the test this afternoon and report back. Thanks for your contact details John, I'll possibly be in touch!

So...

I made the assumption that the yellow and red wires were the ones I was meant to switch and the black wire was to stay in its original place?

By crossing the yellow and red wires over the result stayed the same. Front plug sparked, rear plug didn't. According to cvincers doc that would imply my TCI is boned?
I peeled off the glue the PO had put on the unit and took it apart. There is evidence of a little solder work from one of the 6 pin pins but nothing appeared loose. There is also some melting of the outer plastic case where the 2 metal brackets that are screwed to the circuit board slot into the case.
I understand the TCI's are a bit hard to come by. Anyone got one for sale?

This is the link to the TCI information page that Rik G refers to. Meaningless stuff to me but to an electronics repair person I guess this is saying that parts can be replaced and TCI's repaired. Know anyone like that down Wellywood way?

http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/TCIRebuild/TCI_Rebuild.html

for eletrical stuff like that i would go to advance electrical done on petone foreshore.   they have always been pretty good when i have dealt with them.   

Hi Tig5,
I have just tested my XZ400 TCI unit on the 550 and it works fine. If you would like me to post it to you so that you can check if your TCI is the source of your problem, Text, Phone or PM with your details and I will get it in to the post for you. All the best.

HA I didnt know that he was in NZ. That might make shipping a bit pricey, take up pinholenz on his offer for sure.

I have experienced failure on two different TCI boxes.  In both cases the bike would start and idle as normal.  In both cases, when the tach reached 2k rpm the engine would loose one cylinder.  I think it was the back one but I'm not certain.  The engine would rev beyond 2k, but just on one cylinder.  Then, as soon as the tach dropped back to 2k, the lost cylinder would return and the bike would idle as normal.

So...

I replaced the TCI and took the bike for a couple of short rides and everything appeared to be running great. I then took the bike for some slightly longer rides (only 10-15 minutes worth) and started experiencing cut-out of the rear cylinder again. If I stopped the bike and left it for 10 minutes it would start up again fine and ride well for another 10-15 minutes then the problem would return.

However it also seemed like the battery was beginning to flatten on me. It became a bit more difficult to start. I hooked my multimeter up to the terminals. It showed about 12.9v which then dropped to about 12.6v with the engine running and didn't really change with an increase of revs. Does this mean my stator is cooked? If my stator is fried would that result in a drop in voltage and the cut-out symptoms I'm experiencing? My other thought is that it could be the HT lead which is now a bit shorter and virtually sits on top of the cylinder head. I'm wondering if it is heating up and failing.

if you havent already check the plug from the stator to the reg.   i changed mine and it worked great for a while (but then put a connector strip in and now its not as good.  but thats more user error i suspect.

Run through Electrex's Stator / Regulator Fault Finding Chart (https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B5rMo73UpmHbbjlyMXNJNVpDZWM)

Just off idle, a good charging system should show at least 13.2 vdc.  To me 12.6 vdc indicates a failed stator.

Thanks for the diagram Roro.

Where it asks: Count the # of DIFFERENT coloured wires coming from the RR not including the yellow, I followed the path of 4 or less because I included the 3 white wires. Was this a mistake?

Anyway, at idle with the multimeter black wire connected to battery + and the multimeter red wire connected to RR wire RED, I get a reading of about -0.08v at idle.

When I connect the red multimeter lead to battery - and the black multimeter lead to RR wire BLACK I get a reading of 4.7v at idle.

The flow chart suggest I have a bad connection from negative lead from RR to battery -

I checked connections including ground wire to engine case and didnt find any problems. The "Best Solution" suggested was to "connect RR ground straight to battery - with an extra lead. I connected RR wire BLACK straight to battery - and this didn't seem to change any readings.

Battery reads 13.0v with key off and 12.7v at idle and through rev range.

It sounds like you have either screwed up wiring or a defunct charging system.  Have you checked output directly from the stator while the motor is running?  If you have the proper output then you have a failed Regulator Rectifier.  If the stator output is good you still may have a failed RR unit.  Follow the diagnostic sequence for the charging system.

QuoteBattery reads 13.0v with key off and 12.7v at idle and through rev range.

That's the most important part of the entire post right there. I agree with fret testing stator output seems like a practical next step.  ;) Some would argue continuity test the stator windings but a dynamic ac voltage test will cut to the chase.  ;) If the readings are not up to snuff you'll have your answer. You can then go back and figure out if the stator is shorted or open (more likely) but either way it's dead.  :P

Go to the bottom of page 2 on the chart where it says "Switch the multimeter AC-Voltage (Range at least to 100 Vac)....."and start there. Disconnect the stator harness from the R/R and probe the stator wires there as outlined in the test procedure. If the plug connector or wires or corroded or melted that's bad.  :(

The flow chart is great but it presupposes you have knowledge of the equipment used and the tests being outlined and a good grasp on theory. Then it methodically takes you by the hand step by step. If you have the tools, knowledge and understanding you know the short cuts to quickly get the answer so the chart becomes unnecessary. If you are a beginner the flow chart can be overwhelming.

The "counting wires" part is trying to ascertain if you have an excitable field or permanent magnet alternator type - yours is the magnet type. The tests that yielded negative .08 and 4.7 at idle - to be honest I don't know what you were doing there... ???  :o  :) It sounds like you may have confused the R/R diode test with a running voltage test? Did any smoke escape from the meter!?  :D

I tested the white stator wires with my multimeter on VAC 200 mode. All 3 wires showed between 4.5 and 5.5, so I guess it's fried  :'(

Any kiwis have a spare?

hey tig.   i may have one.  but i have no idea of the condtion.   its not in a bike at the moment (so havent tested it) and dont know if theres a way to test it? 

failing that roro may have one i think i read.   

I have a R/R, but no stator sorry.

4.5, 5.5 VAC out of the stator seems very unusual.  Are you sure it isn't 45, 55?

ah. sorry roro.  got my wires crossed.   :-[

55 to 60 vac is fairly normal for a vision , the fact that there is a differance between legs concerns me.

To be a complete test checking all three phases there should be three values. Consider the wires A, B and C. Test sequence is:
red lead to A, black lead to B
red lead to A, black lead to C
red lead to B, black lead to C

The values should be the same (or very close) at the same RPM. Did you read the manual that came with the multi-meter? If not, do so and retest. Let us know what you get. I just want to make sure you are using the correct scale and interpreting the values correctly.  :) Having said that, given the voltage at the battery when running and revving, these low values very well may be valid and the stator is fried.

Identical readings on all all 3 phases would be nice... But IMHO not essential. One of the things that I noticed when I got my bike is that the previous service mechanic had disconnected one phase from my stator. I am told that this was regarded as a possible solution for the  R/R overheating by the it having to shunt too much voltage to the frame....?

Uneven voltage from the stator (at identical revs) indicates a problem with the stator, but not that it is completely fried  - yet ... especially if you are getting in the region of 50VAC.

I suggest you also do the diode test for the R/R as outlined in the Electrosport pdf.

http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/pdf/diode-testing-guide.pdf