Since I'm laid up with electrical problems for a couple days I figured I might as well work on some things I wanted to try, like rewiring the gauges and making a fairing, or else I'ld never get to them. So here I present the progress thread for my fairing. When I get finished I'll probably throw it up on a proper page on my site with all these pictures, but for now this will do.
I did end up going with the foam core, and I'm glad, it soo easy to work with. It's a bit of a pain to lay down, but once it's cured up it's the easiest thing to form in the world.
I've just got it half hung with tape right now, because I didn't make a bracket to hold it up, planning on making a bracket after I get a shape down, but I might have done that differently if I started over again.
I've just got clearances cut in it, so it will go to full lock left and right and shouldn't hit if the suspention bottoms out. I've got the front fork loaded as much as my pathetic little 150 Lb body can manage, and tied it that way with an extension cord. Then I cut a section of pippet the length of where the I can see the fork rides up to (a little cleaner than the rest, I need new seals, I've already bought them) which is about 1" from the bottom tripple clamp. I used that to make sure that everything is out of the way of the fender.
I'm off to start carving. I'll post more pictures as things happen.
-edit-
doh! forgot the pictures.
(http://pixelatedreality.com/Vision/RawFormFront.jpg)
(http://pixelatedreality.com/Vision/RawFormSide.jpg)
(http://pixelatedreality.com/Vision/RawFormBack.jpg)
(http://pixelatedreality.com/Vision/RawFormFrontLow.jpg)
And here would be the results of tonight's labor. Need to fill in the pitts with some more foam, and start bringing the sides lower to meet towards the underside.
(http://pixelatedreality.com/Vision/Carving1.jpg)
:o Are u nutts? that foam will for 1 get destroyed wen riding down the road, or evan if u bump it with ur knee, as well as how are u gonna mount a head light, plus, alot of paint will deterierate that... My sugjestion is that u use that as a mold and make a fiberglass one... Jus my opinion, but hey might as well try lol
I did say this was just the core :P. I plan on eventually doing it in carbon fiber, once I get something that I'm entirely sure of, I'm hoping one layer of CF and two layers of matting will be strong enough since it's not a load bearing structure. $42 a yard is a bit too much to experiment with. The first one will be with some medium weight material I have.
Thats a nasty yeast infection (haha).
But really it looks pretty good. I think carbon fibre could be hard to work with, you might want to try fibre glass first. You'll really have people guessing with that F1 faring.
I am really impressed. Now there's a man who's not affraid to try something new! Looking forward following your progress,
Louis
First pic- this is your brain
Second pic- this is your brain on Vision
lol
Seriously though thats really looking good.
Love your creativity and courage. Way to go!
Looks great, good idea! I was thinking of doing something similar (you beat me to it) but using fiberglass strips over a mould. Have you thought about mounting it yet? That is what I am thinking about now.
;DLoad bearing structure? You sound like an Architect! ;D
The first pictures look like a sheep having a really bad hair day. I've thought about making my own fairing, but I hadn't thought to use foam to shape it.
QuoteLoad bearing structure? You sound like an Architect! ;D
Heh, took that right out of a 10 page article I read on composite materials. They were making a wing cap for a car, did it out of 6 layers of matte and a foam inner section. I'm hoping the el-cheapo CF material will still be much stronger than standard cloth, and still offer alot of weight savings.
The CF I'm looking at is not the pre-impregnated stuff that they make F1 cars out of, because that requires vaccume bagging and an autoclave to form, it's just a half carbon fiberglass weave. Although I'ld use an epoxy resin rather than polyvinyl.
I haven't thought about how to mount it, I'm going to wait till I get a shape down and a fiberglass shell to experiment with that. I'm not particularly looking forward to it. Need to figure out how to do it with stock mount points, and clear the forks, and keep it as light as possible doing as little welding as possible. I really need to get a welder, and I could borrow one, it's just not convenient. I'll probably start with a light frame for the inside of the fiberglass to give it attatchment points and to hold things like headlights and guages, then I'll figure out how to hold that to the frame.
I don't want the mount to be too complex so it's reletively easy to take it off for maintanance or if you want to run the bike naked you don't have to take all day to get the thing off.
Have you seen the mounting system for the typ. full fairing? ?I thought is was a really good idea, I was thinking of building off of that idea. What spray foam did you use?
No I haven't, if you've got pictures of how it mounts to the frame I'ld love to see them.
I don't remember the brand off the top of my head, but I got it at both Lowes hardware and The Home Depot. Yellow cans for regular and black cans for extra expanding foam. It's for sealing windows and doors and cracks and pipes and stuff. It's cutable, sandable, and paintable. I used I think 9 cans of regular and 2 cans of extra expanding for what you see in the first pictures. The extra expanding is much better and I would have had to use alot less if I had started with it.
WOW......... at last some, soee inventiveness is always good... at least for me ;D
love your work mate, love your work
I'm almost done with the top 3/4. The underside is turning out to be a pain, I might do it a little different way. I picked up a headlight from a Honda F4, mirrors from a CBR900RR, and generic low profile side markers.
Unfortunatly the headlight aims a bit high, so there is defenatly some adjusting I'm going to have to do.
(http://pixelatedreality.com/Vision/CarvedFormFront.jpg)
(http://pixelatedreality.com/Vision/CarvedFormBack.jpg)
(http://pixelatedreality.com/Vision/CarvedFormSide.jpg)
And a little mini victory dance for me getting this far I hooked the headlight up... woooo..:P
(http://pixelatedreality.com/Vision/CarvedFormSideLit.jpg)
Now I've got to wait till tomorrow morning (or this morning as it were) to fill it up with oil and see if the stator fixed the problem *hopes really hard*
The prospect of getting it streetable again will force me to finish my guages tonight for sure tho
Hey good job there. I love the look of that headlight on the Vision...
Looks cool. Can you see the mirror past the handle bars?
That fairing is looking great! I wasn't sure where you were headed when it looked like a big popcorn ball. Guess the secret is to start out with a blob of foam and carve away everything that doesn't look like a fairing. Are you going to use a stock windshield from a current sportbike or custom bend one to top it off?
If I tried something like this, it would never get even on both sides and would definitely sit cockeyed. Never was much of an artist so I applaud your effort & talent.
H2O
wow... definately starting to look good.. i just put on a fairing from what i believe was a 92-96 gsxr600.. fairing looks pretty good on it, although its a race fairing, but was thinking of putting sides on too when i can get around to confirming thats the bike it came from. but i will say im impressed. i for one, have very little artistic talant and have to agree with H20 that mine would definately come out cock-eyed.
please keep up updated. and also...could you let me know how you have it mounted? (when you get around to it) right now i have the gixxr fairing mounted to the two bolt holes located on the frame, to each side of the lower steering stem. ive never seen an 83 fairing mount, so i wasnt sure how even that is mounted, but id definately love to see what you come up with.
great work!
Blake
A long time ago, a young Vision owner asked Extent:
"Oh master of expanded and solidified mater, how could you create such a masterpiece, an awe-inspiring work of art?"
Extent paused for a minute. Then he simply replied:
"You know, the fairing was always in there. All I did was chip away a few pieces of foam."
Keep up the good work,
Louis
Though it may be hard to find, you may want to consider using an '83 fairing mount. Also, you might want to consider making the lower section a little wider for better leg/wind protection. Using bar end mirrors might open up some additional styling options.
What you are doing is great, and a welcome addition to the already high level of creativity found here on the Form.
Cheers.
Lookin' great!! (glad to see that my garage is not the only one that looks that way!!)
I don't know about the mirrors. The foam is strong enough to hold the screws holding them in, but not sturdy enough to let me adjust them on the mold. I've got some '83 risers coming, so the bars will sit a little lower, I still think I'll probably move the mirrors up to the top to get them closer to stock height.
I'm going to try forming my own screen out of Lexan. If I get a decent one I might send it in to Humbler and have his contact make me a real one ;D
I'ld love to make it mount to a stock bracket, that would take a lot of work out of my hands. But unfortunatly unless I could find one for practically free I can't explore that right now. I'm down to working with materials that I already have, so I don't have to buy anything more.
The sides used to be quite a bit wider, but I ended up having to shave a bit more than I wanted off to get it symetrical. I probably won't widen it any for this version, once I get a test one glassed and on the road I'll see what tweaks need to be done and work from there.
that is starting to look good.
as for mounting, i am sure that will come in a dream or ,maybe after some real pencil tiem, but i would say just look at a few different bikes, see how those fairings mount up and then make your own.
i gave a bit of thought to making lowers for my Vetter, but have added that to my list of "maybe later" projects. i just dont have the time to work on it yet.
good luck, keep us posted
very cool, a Brilliant idea.
that foam is a blast to work with, good for making halloween props too ;)
I'm glad to know that I'm a member of the cluttered garage club. ;)
heh, now I definately feel much better about my garage being a little less than tidy. I ended up moving my drums back inside because of the humidity here in redsox land.
I also liked the "your brain on a vision" quote.
keep up the good work!
-Ron
Thought I'ld throw out an update. If the pictures look hideous..... it's because they are ;) I'm learning as I go along but things are kind of coming together. I need to do a little more build up on the front, and I still have to create the lower quarter. It's dificult to get the matt to stick upsidown, so things are going to get kind of creative. Once I've got all the parts framed out and I can take them off as complete pieces and have them retain their shape then I'll grind down some of the highest points and stretch a fresh layer of cloth over it to create a smoother base to do the final layup that will be the outsie surface.
I've got a fairing stay rigged up for it, since I really needed it before I could get back to the glasswork. I don't have any good pictures of it alone, but it just reaches around the forks an screws in to the two mount points on the neck. I think I'm going to see about bracing it from lower on the frame thru the radiator mount bolts or something, but it holds the bodywork and the headlight up right now, so I'm not going to over complicate it.
(http://www.pixelatedreality.com/Vision/1stLayUpFront.jpg)
(http://www.pixelatedreality.com/Vision/1stLayUpSide.jpg)
Man, not only do you deserve a medal for being able to make the thing look like something, you deserve a second one because it looks like an actual modern fairing!
Keep up the good work, summer is just around the corner!
(Somewhere, I'm sure. Not in Ottawa)
Louis
Looks great. I am in the process of fabricating a fairing also. The fiberglass is great to work with, but I found that the dust from the sanding is a pain. It itches... but it is well worth it.
That's looking awesome!! I assume that you wrapped the foam in aluminum foil before the fiberglass?
Yup, tho Ive peeled quite a bit of it off already. The foil in those is over the actual headlight. I did about 2 layers of glass matt over most of the thing before I cut it into parts and pulled it off the foam, but it just wasn't going to work without the mount. I needed something so I could have the parts mount in exactly the same place every time, really the only way to get it even and symetrical and stuff, so I did a quick bracket and got everything centered up and firm. Now that I've got the skeleton/shell thing I cut out the worst bits and am trying to get it to meet with the headlight correctly. It was just a little flatter on the front than the shape I had originally.
I think what I'll have to do is "finish" just the head of it (which I'll be able to do off the bike after a couple more little adjustments) then I'll have to make the sides meet up to the bottom of it for a smooth fit, then I'll be able to finish the buld up on the lower quarter and the under engine portion.
For dealing with the dust what I've been doing is just wearing a sweatshirt with the sleeves tucked into my workshop gloves and the hood pulled over my hair, then I put a hat on over the hood to hold it in place. Add safty glasses and a resperator and you're set! I haven't done any sanding, just a lot of cutting with the dremel, but once that dust gets in the air it can really mess up you're eyes, heh..
I laid down aluminum foil, and then a layer of duct tape (I am from the south ;D) over the foil, and it peeled off very nicely. Where I did not use the duct tape, the foil stuck to the fiberglass.
I've been making slow headway and I'm hoping to be completely done with the top 1/4 fairing in about a week. I've the most work left on the lower half of the top 1/4, and a bit left to do to shape the scoops right and make them symetrical. Here it is primered and waiting for the next round of bondo and sanding.
(http://levanthia.com/Vision/QuarterProgress01.jpg)
And here it is with the headlight in place again. I was holding it in place with my hand so as you can see it slipped out a little bit, it dosen't actually fit that bad when it's in right...
(http://levanthia.com/Vision/QuarterProgressWithLight01.jpg)
I also started a little work on the front fender, which I had completely forgotten about when I was doing my original plans, but is such a nice small and reletively simple piece I wanted to start it now and use it as a test for making the final negetive mold. Plus when I get it done I can put it on the bike right away ;D
(http://levanthia.com/Vision/FenderShell.jpg)
This I shaped together by taping cardboard to the stock fender. Once the second layer of glass is cured I can get to fleshing it out the rest of the way. I also heard in a couple of places that fiberglass rear huggers and undertails didn't fare too well against the riggors of road use, that they chipped way too easily. So This one I'll use to see how bad it is really. For the final piece it might be best for the second and final layers of the lay up to be aramid for the impact protection I'm thinking.
(http://levanthia.com/Vision/FenderShellMounted.jpg)
Duct tape is big up north too, ever heard of Red Green?
If the women don't find you handsome, at least let them find you handy!
The fairing project is looking great! Anxious to see the final product. Thanks for keeping us informed & giving general instructions.
H2O
Awesome work! I doubt I could ever do something like that!!.
That said, my son said it "looks like Shrek's nostrals.." lol
--Lucky
Extent, have you worked out the mounting for the fairing yet?
not a final part, but I've got one that holds it in the right place for building it, and when I finish the 1/4 I'm going to do one that holds just that in place so I can road test it. I don't think I'll get around to a final version of the mount untill I've got all the pieces done.
Looks cool, the 83 faring is mounted to the bike using what almost could pass for electrical conduit that is crushed on the ends (sort of like into a "u" shape) to fit around the bike frame.
Extent-Unable to open pic of your project from forum on my pc system. If you have time, please send me pic via e-mail to wayned8@iwon.com-Tks Wayne
Red Green is a hoot!
Got some more work done on painting the prototype. As soon as I get the surface perfectly polished smooth I can make a female mold and get ready to make an actual part, wheeeee!!
Here's the fender and quarter fairing primered
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=41)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=38)
And coated with a flat black. This mold is going to be clear coated for a perfectly smooth non porous surface. The test part I'll paint flat black with yellow stenciling. The final carbon fiber piece will be painted with automotive paint and cleared.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=40)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=39)
And here is a look at things to come. This is the 2nd clear coat after a round of wet sanding. This stuff dries nice and fast so I just may finish this part tomorrow night.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=37)
check your links, can't see the pics...
*doh* wrong settings on my forum. links fixed.
You know, I think some Vision owners might eventually ask you to make them copies of these parts...
Louis
Extent, I have used mic stands for painting my bike also!! My amp is an endtable, and my mixer is a table in my bedroom!! Every so often I dust off the Les Paul....... one day I will play all of the time again.
I still think it looks like Shrek's nose ;D ;D
this better?
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=46)
Maybe I'll have to do a green one as well ;D
The thought had crossed my mind Lou, but I'm going to wait till I've got the thing closer to being finished before trying to guage interest. If I'm going to make more than one or two (for myself) I'll have to look into getting some tooling gel.
I must be going crazy, I'm not even near being done with this and I'm already starting to think about making a second design.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/files/krazy_207.gif)
It looks good, (minus the ears! :o) I have been working out my own design also, I just recieved my Vetter fairing mount kit, & I am going to work off of that. I had one of the small fairings that attached to the headlamp assembly, and mounting was always a problem for me, so I am going to start with the mounting, and build around that.
Keep the ears - they look like a great place to mount the mirrors!
I like it even though I agree with Lucky's observation that it does have a resemble Shrek's nose a bit. May be just a function of photo angles & the way it is currently sitting. Looking forward to seeing a finished prototype mounted on your V!
H2O
Hey man, from the very beggining I have kept my fingers crossed!!!! Although I am pesymist and I thought u would not manage.....
I like all you showed us, as a former RC model maker, I realise that such projects are very time consuming and from time to time u may feel like sending it all to hell without finishing....
But.... much as I like the final product.... much as I appreciate your effort.... much as I respect your taste..... :(
I just can't see these fairing on this bike. It would look awesome on some modern machine, but it is too "curved" and "rounded" for the old "square Vision".......
PS. an idea....
maybe u should have used an axle and chop it a little bit instead of using a sanding paper when doing final refinishing???? ::) ;)
Working on a new bracket to hold the 1/4 fairing in place, I've got the side pieces mocked up for the most part (one on the right of the bike I did backwards ::) but I'll correct it when I do it w/ rod or replace it with just a flat piece of steel) There'll be two cros braces along the front to keep it from shifting that'll also act as mounting places for the headlight and the dash/guages.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=233)
Since I had that up and I've got the materials test piece done for the 1/4 fairing I clamped it up so it would sit in place.
Gaaaarr! I'm an ogre! :P
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=231)
And a 3/4 angle shot
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=234)
I've been riding with that fender for about 2 weeks now and no chips or other major problems with it yet. *fingers crossed*
The whole thing is positioned differently than I made it originally, so the side pieces from my original carving aren't right anymore, but I taped up the one so the "shoulders" match up the way they will. The front "scoop" area won't stick out as much, and the rear portions will extend further to match up with the boundries of the tank and frame.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=232)
Very well done, you will have every biker scratching their head wondering what they just saw. The fender is high style.
I've got the mount about 90% done I think. It wobbles around a little bit but that should go away once I get the bottom bracing on the headlight in.
Now just for alot more pics
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=244)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=242)
The guages are just taped in place right now, as I'm sure you could see.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=243)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=241)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=240)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=239)
Well I'm feeling really good about this right now. Finally got to a point where I'll say the mount and 1/4 fairing are "done". I'm going to try to pull a couple hundred mile shake down run tomorrow and give it a good road test. I may have to add one more set of braces to dampen vibrations at the front, but I'm not quite sure yet. I also think I'll add one mount at the chin of the fairing, but I don't think that's a critical piece so I'm going to leave it out for now. If all goes well then it's back to prototyping in foam ;D
I'll try to get some daylight pics tomorrow if I can.
As always we start with a front shot. The little brackets holding up the turn signals are for just until I can get around to making reflectors and lenses for the nostrils
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=255)
Sideshot shows the bracing to the bike's frame. The radiator shroud won't fit without modification and I'm reluctant to do that since it would look hideous when running the bike naked with a hacked up shroud. So I'm just going to integrate a shroud into the design for the lower portion of the fairing. Also note the horn thrown in sideways, I was too lazy to take the whole thing off to drill a hole to put it in facing forwards, so it just ended up there ::)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=252)
Here's the top of the headlight, showing how it's mounted up. With the headlight in this way it can be loosened up and tilted up and down with the side supports removed. As it is I'm already running at the absolute lowest adjustment for the headlight, so having that physical adjustment in the stay was important for this stage
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=253)
Here is from the front left of the bike, you can see how the piece that mounts below the head of the tank wraps all the way around as a single piece, you can also see just how tilted up the headlight is ( I blame it on not having the headlight when I did the original carving for the front *doh* ) The wide thin piece holds up the guages.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=254)
And finally peering down into the stay from the rear. Not too much too see here except a better angle of the mount for the guages. That random blue wire is just for my voltage meter
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=251)
though you did a wonderful job, the final product doesn't match to the line of the Vision..... just looks stupid.... my opinion...
hey nice work! take a look at this site for fun; eurospares.com this guy must be related to you... there's great info, I like the artical on hydroforming exhaust pieces. Dave
You know Humber, i've got to give you credit for having balls! all this guys hard work & all you have to say is nice job, looks stupid...
well, while you do have a right to express your opinion, you might want to take a course on 'Tact'. Nice to see you can cut someone down one minuet & beg for help with Ebay shipping the next....
--Lucky
Heh, I have seen far too many web forums where all anyone does is pile on "good job"s for absolutly anything that comes along, and that bothers me more than anything else. Many times people will say good things even if they don't mean them, but it's not often you find someone who says bad things without meaning it ;) If people aren't interested I'ld rather have people say so, so I can save myself the time of doing mini writeups as I go along, rather than getting page after page of disinterested pats on the back (not that I'm claiming that's what's happening here.)
Humbler, Your buddie who does the windscreens, can he make slight modifications to existing designs or does the form that's sent in have to be exactly what you need. For instance adding a double bubble to a standard screen...
Lucky, I had a bit of an idea for the guages project as I was putting things together. What about putting some of them down where the idiot lights are not, to make some more room in the main cluster. Things like the battery guage and most notification lights and stuff, the less critical indicators while riding?
Test ride went well, defenatly have to add more bracing, while it's not shaking around so much to be dangerous, it does make it look like I've got a headlight strobe ::). I have no idea where these braces need to be put, so it's going to take a fair bit of experimenting again. I really wish the forks were a little wider so I could come up right up the middle between them for the bracing.
And the daylight pictures
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=258)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=257)
It looks so very odd without the whole thing on. I shaded the area that the rest of the front fairing may cover, it's pretty hard trying to come up with a layout that shows off the V of the engine but dosen't look too spindly. Also notice the Ogre Snot (tm) replacement YICS there snuggled between the cylinders.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=256)
i like it as a sport fairing, & the fender. all along the bottom looks tough to do.
on the guages, I was thinking about how it would look completely eliminating the guage cluster & putting everything right on the fairing dash...
Clearances for the exhaust and controlls have always been my biggest worry, the whole bottom may just get the chop and I may instead follow what the factory full fairing did for the bottom, still not sure yet. One thing I am sure of is I much prefer working with composite materials than with metal, at least without having a welder.
How much room is there on/behind the dash? Would you still want to go all digital or keep some analog guages in there? I really like not having the guages mounted to the handlebars, even when running naked (lol) I think the bike looks really mean when it's "headless" too bad running without a headlight is illegal (don't get caught out at night!)
That's definitely a different look! ?I can get an idea of what it would look like without the lowers - kind of a bulbous protrusion. ?The lowers will really help the appearance.
Interesting engine case guard - did you fabricate it?
H2O
Nope, it was on the bike when I bought it, I thought it was the standard engine guard until I saw some of them on ebay. Personally I prefer this one.
I am doing something similar on one of my project bikes, If you are going with the full-on fairing, you might want to consider making an additional mounting point where the current case guards attach to the engine. That is where I was thinking of having my bottom attachment point. It would act as a stabilizer.
Had to make a bit of a change, the main bracket just wasn't cutting it, and no amount of bracing would cure the shaking/wobble brought on by on-road forces, 3/16" flatstock just isn't enough. With the square tubing welded in place almost all of the flex is gone, and you can now pick up the front end of the bike just from the stay without it flexing.
My welds are crappy because I haven't welded since highschool, and this was my first time MIGing, but it holds up to the stress test, so it's good enough for the time being. I'm going to have to pick up some CO2 and ditch this fluxcore wire tho, convenient as it is...
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=261)
how much weight do you rekon will be added to the front end of the bike when all is said and done?
Extent Argon is the right gas to use & you wont believe the difference , just stay out of the wind & make sure everything is shmick clean. Keep the gasless wire for any welding outdoors Ian
This portion is heavily overbuilt, so it's getting quite a bit heavier than I want it to, at a random guess I'ld say maybe 7 pounds or so for the plastics and mirrors, and probably nearer to 10 for the bracket, I've no guess what the headlight weighs. Design goal for the skins will be for the whole thing (top and bottom together) to come near to 10 pounds in carbon. I hope to cut the weight of the stay down over half what it is now with a full redesign now that I can do welding, but that's a project I'm saving for the final piece, If I can't get the weight down well enough I may try cutting it out of Aluminum, but the costs of experimenting with that are more than I want to get into at this point.
I was wondering where those replacement yics came frome and how well they work. looks pretty sick man! (i mean the whole fairing project);-)
I just threw that together in about 10 minutes one day after working on some of the glassing. I tried to repair my YICS a couple times but never managed it right, so instead I just made a solid 1 piece one out of fiberglass. It's ugly, and not made to any particular tolerances (and I put the mount tab on the wrong side :-[), but it works. One of these days I'll replace it with a nicer looking one, see if I can maybe make them easier to create.
Some other people have been working with CO2 canisters as replacements, and some other ideas in metal. Those are sure to be easier to deal with than something like this. It's been recently discussed I'm pretty sure.
Alright I'm trying to keep updates a little further apart, more content .. less spam. I'm back working full swing on this sucker right now. I was completely unsatisfied with how the sides were looking so I started from scratch on them. Tried to sketch out a new design that complimented the bikes lines a little better and still matched up with what I have already done for the 1/4 fairing. I don't think I was too sucessfull with that, but I think it looks a lot better than what I had before.
New techniques, new materials. The spray foam worked fine for the first try, but it's not particularly stiff so it doesen't hold it's shape very well. It also takes a long time to get layerd up thick enough to be of any use. This time around I got some 2 part polyurethane expanding foam from TAP plastics. Mix equal parts of A and B and it expands to about 30 times the volume. This foam is much stiffer so even thinner parts don't flex the way the insulating foam does, much better for working with.
Since I wasn't buying premade sheets of the foam I poured my own, it was going to be easier to work with sheets and blocks than to try and pour something from the bike. I lined the inside of a carboard box with poly wrap and poured the foam in there, making sure to fill the entire bottom. Here is a pic of the last bit of foam from the cans.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=294)
You're supposed to be able to glue the foam together with 3M super 70 spray glue but I foun it got lost in the pores and didn't stick fast enough. Instead I used a hot melt glue gun. For attatching distant parts together where I didn't have a foam bridge I used dowels cut up and glued in place, much how you'ld make a FG speaker pod. Then as it started piecing together I'ld trim the spaces and fill them with other bits of foam, gluing it all up as I went. Here is the inside of the left side foam plug.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=295)
To fill larger gaps I cut pieces of foam down and glued them in place, for smaller gaps bondo works beautifully. Since I'm going to try and use this piece for the plug and I really don't want to do any finishing on the surface of the mold I covered the surface of the foam with a scraping of bondo to fill the pores of the foam and give an even surface for a quick primer and paint. The bondo has a little flex in it so even with the plug bending a little it won't crack or fall off. I haven't sanded any of it down yet, since it's too late to use the power sander :-/ I'm going to try and keep myself from getting caught up in perfecting the surface, I've given up on getting a show quality finish to the whole deal (who would have thought that your first project wouldn't be absolutely perfect :P) instead focusing on just getting this sucker done and applying the experience on the next one.
And of course here's the random pictures of it stuck on the bike.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=297)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=296)
This travesty of Vision lives on! Despite a newfound interest in Lotus 7 replicas and an increasing urge to start work on the digital guages project in earnest I've been slowly picking away at this. In the time since my last post I have managed to finish surfacing the plug, damage the plug, attempt a half hearted repair of the plug and then continue to make the mold anyway. I was going to try and clean up the surface of the inside of the plug before making the part but it just sat for a long time and I decided to just push on and just spend my effort fixing the surface of the final part, since I'm never going to use the mold again anyway.
Here is the first part, freshly pulled from the mold (yay)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=646)
I've been having problems trapping air bubbles in the fiberglass in both the mold and in the part. It makes it a real pain to get a nice surface since they all turn into craters :-\. I was thinking about trying a roller, but I'm sure that I'm making a much more fundamental error than that, tools can't make up for technique. I've been using a diamond cutting wheel with a Dremel to do the cutting, circular blades just ground down far too quickly in the composite, but the cutting wheel has been working perfectly.
For the final layup I used 3 layers of 1.5oz CSM, then just pieces of cardboard box cut for the core, and then a final layer of 1.5oz CSM. It's reasonably stiff, might have been able to use one less layer of CSM or not use the core, but that's stuff for future experiments.
Here I have the part trimmed and hung with temporary mounts. I've got a lot of work to make all the edges meet up smooth with the other parts of the fairing and the bike, but I'm going to wait untill I have the mounting system completely finalized before cleaning that up.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=642)
The proportions look really odd from this angle
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=643)
I'm going to make a new mount for the front fairing that runs all of it's support up between the forks and has mounting points for the sides running straight back from the headstock so I can avoid long loops of metal so far forward on the bike and try and minimise the effects of the added weight on the balance of the bike. I want to do all my designing for the bracket in CAD rather than the guess-and-chop method I've been using so far. So I need to model in the headstock and top portion of the forks to check for clearances and so I can play with different structures to try and optimize it structurally as much as possible. For now all of the other mounts are welded onto the engine guard.
Here are some more pictures with the flash cleaned off and an exploritory primer coat
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=644)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=645)
Now, aside from finishing this piece and all else I've mentioned above I've got to come up with a way to duplicate this part as a mirror image. I'm going to try cutting slices that match the inside profile of the mold and use those as a skeleton to fill in the foam for the second plug carving. The new plug also gets a layer of glass on it to keep it from being damaged in my garage while it waits to be finished.
You know extent, I really enjoy following your progress on this long term project. Mostly the fact that we can, with your detailed account, watch the learning curve go up. And the project take shape (litterally).
Now, if you keep adding pieces to this, you'll need to head out to the Salt Flats and get a shot at Vision top speed record! ;)
Lou
Extent, just curious, what Lotus 7 replicas are out there? Is the Caterham still being made? I drove a Series 2 super 7 for 9 seasons back in the 80s. What a car. Mine had a Ford 116E for power. Not that is was so fast but the fun factor was off the scale. Right now the car is worth maybe twice what I sold it for LOL.
Caterham is still around, they bought the rights back from Lotus and continued development on the Series 3 7. (http://www.caterham.co.uk/) They've got some crazy ones in their lineup, with the biggest having 260hp and a 0-60 of only 3.1 seconds.
There are a lot of replicas around too, Dax, Westfield, Tiger. But of course that would be too easy, and I plan on scratchbuilding a modified chasis and building up from there :p
Well i'm impressed, but you guys allways impress me..
Awesome job!
I thought the digital guages had fallen off the scope. i'll have to go find my pics of them.
--Lucky
not that i have any first hand exp with it, but you were mentioning joint matching the plugs to the fairing,.
i have seen on a few other projects , a weatherstrip/expanded soft foam type joint in those places, used to match the joint ,but also to kepp vibration from carrying up through the lowers to the uppers. this will keep mirrors from shaking off as well as help to blend all the joints. can get this type weatherstrip almost anywhere, and it isnt much. depending on how you taper or attach it , it may lower the amount of "perfect " joints that have to be made.
i think it comes in 1 inch,1.5 inch and two inch wide rolls.
Heh, my projects never die Lucky, they just sleep for long periods of time :p I've got big plans for the digital dash, I just know if I start on too many things I don't have the slightest hope of finishing any of them.
Thanks for the tip Kia, I hadn't thought about trying to dampen vibration at the joints, that would make life easier in a couple of places, I'll have to see what the local Lowes has.
i think you would most likely be better off in an auto trim shop,, lowes would have home stripping but you are going to need somethin a bit tougher . i would say that jc whitney.com is the place,, can get flat, 1/4 rd,1/2 rd,3/4 rd ,and full round, it will depend on project budget and time, but it is cheap,, i redid entire pontoon boat (modified worker platform from 1956) and all the trim with different types of the stuff from there. it isnt really that expensive, and it does a heck of a job on vibration, squeaks and sealing from water transfer. most likely the best way to go.
So I've been picking about in SolidWorks to replace that rat's nest of steel with a proper fairing stay and I thought I'ld put up my initial diagrams incase anyone had any thoughts.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=660)
Here is the part in place with the proxy objects I used to check for interference.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=663)
The fork is 16ga sheet cut and welded, and the bracket arms are 1/2" square tube. I thought of using solid rod for those like most stock stays seem to be made of, but I have 1/2" square tube :P and I have no good way to acurately bend rod.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=661)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=662)
The whole thing comes out to about 2.1 pounds. I did FEA tests with 500lb of force applied to the headlight proxy, maximum deflection horisontally is about .1" and vertically and straight on it's closer to .03"
Only major bit missing is the bracket to mount the guage cluster. Turn signal mounts will have to be special untill I figure out for good where they go, and the wings for the mirrors have to be custom fit since the 1/4 fairing isn't perfectly symetrical. I'll probably just leave them as bolt on parts to this so it can be more of a "generic F4 headlight mount" and when I do another fairing I don't have to redesign the core of it.
Extent, do you know that there are 2 threaded bolt holes on the frame, on either side of the steering tube for the original fairing frame bracket?.. can you use those?
Oh I forgot about that, I am using the stock bolt holes, but they hold a bracket across the front of the steering tube with tabs on it to match up to the bolt holes on the base of the stay. I never liked fiddleing with the bolts in the original location, so I thought a two piece design would be just slightly more convenient for the countless times I'm sure to have to remove this thing.
Hey Extent,
Just curious but whats the thickness of your main bracket(forks?). Just curious because when i had the gsxr 600 fairing on my bike (see avatar) from lock to lock there wasnt much more than maybe 1/4" (if i remember correctly.) are you going to have to modify your fork stops so you can have enough space in the middle to place that bracket?
reason i ask is because i had to take off my fairing because i was simply using 1/8" x 1" steel strip reinforced with some 1/8" square solid steel strips to help stiffen it up.
Also, what are you doing with all of the wires that are there infront of the fork (used to be in the headlight bucket?) mainly what are you doing to keep those out of water/rain? (thats another problem i had that simply didnt have time to figure out).
Great work though! makes me want to go weld up a similar bracket and get my fairing/clipons/new gauges back on.
Blake
When I made my current one I "measured" the clearance and found that there wasn't room for anything between the forks. At the Cali ROV meet Ron told me to measure again and lo and behold there was space :D . The number I'm currently working with is 1.5" total. I've got a 3/4" square tube up through the center right out for extra bracing, and I roughly measured the distance between the forkleg and that tubing to get that number.
The fork is 3cm wide, which should allow for .4cm (just over .1") clearance on each side. I'm going to do a cardboard mockup to check my numbers before commiting it to steel. I didn't feel like taking the whole front end apart to get my measurements for the cad simulation so i'm only about 80% confident in my numbers.
Right now all of the wiring harness is just kind of hanging out in the open uncovered :-[ This new bracket should give me something that I can wire tie the bundle up to along the bottom leg of the fork and then make a nice cover for the top and fit a plate on the under side of the 1/4 fairing to cover the bottom.
i will say what many are thinking,,, hurry as much as possible,, this thing is starting to look really good!
keep it safe , make it your way , and start thinking of a price, i think you are going to be making a few more!!
If nothing else, may end up with my bike in your yard getting a custom hand laid lower set for the fairing i have now , lol
The best laid plans....
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=756)
That's right, it didn't fit. Not even close. I had something that fit perfect between the forklegs, but I completely forgot to take into account the keylock and brakelines and bracket *doh!* Well that's why I wanted to prototype it in cardboard first.
So some hasty redesigning that took all the rest of the day and I once again completely blew through the timeline I had figured for this segment. Since properly modeling out all the bits that I would need to for a virtual simulation would take forever for me to do I settled for taking realworld measurements as best I could as I went along and coming up with a "close enough" draft. Here is the results of that process.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=748)
And for reference here is what the old system looked like when it was stripped down.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=757)
Forgive the crappy camera phone pics, it's just so much more convenient to use to take snaps as I go along :P
I regenerated the plans from the new model and marked out the side pieces on the 16ga sheet steel. I cut it out using both a cordless sawz-all and a sabre saw with a metal blade. This ended up being a real pain and needed a lot of cleanup and pounding back flat after it was done. I'm not quite sure what would have been a better way of do it, maybe an air nibbler. If I was going to do it again I'ld defenatly look around and see what it might cost to get laser or water-jetted for something with these long thinish parts.
The sides I cut as long as possible and bent into shape, rather than welding along every possible seam. I had the top two bolt holes off by about 2mm so I drilled them out and put a new section over top of it, that's why there's the second plate there. Here it is tacked up.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=755)
Here is what I did to bolt it to the headstock.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=752)
It worked resonably well, but the 16ga still flexes a bit more than I wanted it to horisontally. I tried bracing it across with some of the roundstock I had handy, and I plan to cut off the "extra" bits which are above the crossbar, but I'm not quite sure how to make it stiffer. It seemed fine enough on the test ride, but I don't know how much it's really moving about.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=754)
In this case the roundstock was originally just temporary to hold it in place, but I decided to keep it. These hold the headlight in place very securely.
At this point I nearly took the tip of my finger off with the bench grinder, which put me off for yet another week with only about 1 hour of work left to do, grrr. Note to others: when grinding the flash off thin pieces of metal make extra certain that the platform is adjusted as close to the wheel as it can go!
Here's the completed assembly in place, with all the fairing brackets in place as well.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=753)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=751)
The mirror brackets hold the guages in place as well. There is a third point on the fairing that is held down right under the nose.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=750)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=749)
It clears everything just about perfectly, juuuust enough room right where it's needed. Even with the welds ground down it touches just barely at full right lock, but I'm willing to accept that, my tankbag gets more in the way.
It defenatly looks like there is a lot more room for weight savings, now that I've seen this thing in the real world, it's probably heavier than the ~3lb estimate that I had from the CAD work, but I attribute that to the last minute redesign :-\ I think there's room to bring the whole headlight back about 2 inches and bring the weight bias further inside (which would be really good) but I really think that'll have to be for my next project, I'll just have to chalk it up to experience this time around. As it is it holds the headlight in exactly the same position as my original tangle of metal, and I'm pretty happy about that at least.
I still have to put the horn and turn signals somewhere, and then tie up the wiring harness, but most of that will have to wait untill after my test ride tomorrow, the weather is just too good to pass up.
You go guy!! I nominate you for status "Vnary Extraordinare".
Awsome ! Awesome!
What a great job you are doing,I have done this sort of project when I decided to put the Hannigan SS on my 82.(1983) Hannigan did not make a bracket to attach their fairing to the bike.
I figured I could make one easy enough... in a raised garden shed with a buzz box. My first attempt was a failure as the bracket broke after a couple of hundred B.C.'s frost heaves! Managed to get back to my R&D facility before anything else let loose. I had not heard of a CAD program a this stage of the game. No computer either.
I determined I would purchace a Vetter Quicksilver mount which would fit on the V, after o bit of modification I was able to fit the fairing to the bike.
Now it's 24 years later, still riding Visions & will put the same fairing on my 81 XV 920 rh. Should be a bit easier with a Mig/ tube bender & shop.
Can't wait to see the finished product.
Cheers Ken S
Ok, so quick update. Of course it wasn't good enough, and the headstock mount flexed quite a bit and after a couple of bumps in the road I ended up with a fairing resting on my front fender, not good for steering :-\ So I chucked it and made a new one that fit closer to the headstock out of thicker material. Once I had it together it was apparent that a lot of the vertical movement was actually coming from it pivoting against the bolts, and not the bar flexing. It just has too much leverage too far up and moving it closer to the frame tube didn't help any. So I quick made up a top piece that would wrap up over the spine of the bike and bolt on to hold it in place and this finally did it.
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=762)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=761)
It's finally stiff in all directions now, I had it out all day Monday running errands and it was working great. Finally I can try to get back to making forward progress on the project :p
I also took the opportunity to weigh the parts. It came out to 14.2 lbs (ouch) for the whole quarter fairing. Of that 3.8 lbs is metal bits, the rest is the headlight, FG, mirrors etc.
Man, where are the very first pictures of this project? Can you re-post them?
Were there any ones specifically you wanted? They were all on my old domain which is gone and dead.
Alright, so I'm calling it quits on this one. It's been a long almost 2 (!) years and I've learned alot. I've been growing more and more dissatisfied with what I have, the poor design and the poor shape, things being off center etc, etc, etc. So I'm taking all I've learned and going back to square 1 and going back to a completely new design and a lot of testing in CAD. But that is a journey for another day (and a new thread) I want to dedicate some time to some of the other things I've been wanting to work on like replacing the exhaust system, doing some dyno time, making a new set of electronic guages from scratch, and a couple other things that we'll just call "top secret" (lol) for now :P
But! I couldn't stand to just leave the rough edges of what I have now quite so rough so I wanted to do something to finish off the top that would make it a little easier for me to hide some of the wiring and stuff, so back with the foam!
click images for larger view
(http://levanthia.com/forum/files/thumbs/t_newfoamcore_348.jpg) (http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=1013)
I've been using 2 part Polyurethane Foam instead of the foam-in-a-bottle. It's much stiffer and a load easier to work with.
Did the lay up right on the bike
(http://levanthia.com/forum/files/thumbs/t_layup_330.jpg) (http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=1014)
Pulled all the foam out of it and reinforced the seam between the old and new on the inside of the fairing. I'm just rushing the whole thing so the surface is bad and wavy, slap on a bunch of body filler, cut it down with a rasp, sand and prime...
(http://levanthia.com/forum/files/thumbs/t_primered_117.jpg) (http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=1012)
The rasp works great for getting things mostly flat, it's not perfect but it's about as good as the rest of it so I'm not going to fret over it too much. I can always go back later and smooth things more.
And that's about it. I've already destroyed my molds and original plugs so the prototype markings come off for good. I'm not happy with everything (of course) so I'm not going to go with the yellow and black paint scheme I had planned on, but I'm just going to stick with flat black for everything (kind of a shame, I like the silver paint, but it's just getting rattier and rattier)
the Extent stensil is coming off, I still have another coat of black to shoot and I was just playing with masking
(http://levanthia.com/forum/files/thumbs/t_finalfront_113.jpg) (http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=1017)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/files/thumbs/t_final34_577.jpg) (http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=1018)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/files/thumbs/t_finalside_844.jpg) (http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=1015)
(http://levanthia.com/forum/files/thumbs/t_finalrear_202.jpg) (http://levanthia.com/forum/download.php?id=1016)
And so with a triumphant "meh" I pronounce this project over! :p
I don't care what you say. You're a better man than me. Considering what you started with (a vison of what could be), I think you did great! Can't wait to hear about the other projects you're dreaming up. Cheers.
Hey Extent,
If i ever get another Vision to play with, i'd be interested in mounting this fairing if it's just gathering dust somewhere...