Riders Of Vision

Hi friends!

For 10 years I've imagined a street tracker build on a XZ550 so I finally pulled it together an bought a specimen and started chopping away. Its funny no one has tried it that I know of since the Vision must be one of the most suitable starting material. OK, here it goes, progress so far involves losing the center stand, misc. brackets, rear end, lowering the front shock mount, proper handlebar mounts. The big thing now is the tank. The volume of  small tracker tank will probably be eaten up by the tunnel so I'm leaning towards a chopped stock tank for a slightly wider look. Hold on for project updates.



Per
Sweden

 That's cool!!  Did you start with a running Bike?

Welcome to the site and thanks for posting pics of your project build.  :) Around these parts most Yamaha builds like this revolve around the 650 twin. It's conventional forks, rear suspension, chain drive, and air cooled engine apparently are desirable. Or maybe the engine design looks close enough to the old Triumphs some used to use as a stating point?

Anyway, I'm very curious to see your dream (or should I say vision  ;)) take shape. To your mind, what features of the Vision make it an ideal stating point? Good luck and keep the progress reports coming!  :)

Hi guys.

Thanks for your interest in the project. I'm sure this project wouldn't be possible without all the knowledge in this forum. Tons of crucial info. The bike was not running but turning over so I took a chance since the price was right and there was half a bike in parts to go along. The XS650 feels so done and I just love the high tech look of the engine, and mono shock is a dream, it just smells race. Presumably it was the first water cooled Japanese bike without cooling fins (?) I like to call it a art project and the road is the goal on this one.

per, welcome to the group!  Are you aware of the Memphis Shade V dirt tracker from several years ago?

That' what I'm talking about! Didn't know that one. There's more hard core Vision racing at http://www.riderfiles.com/coopers-vision/


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Well, thank you very much per for that wonderful link.  Eddie Wilbanks describing his V build up...outstanding!  Must Read for V lovers.

There are a lot of modified visions - quite a few badass racers and some godawful choppers.  Trackers are few and far between.
Not my pics...

Now we're talking! That's some nice pictures and good inspiration. I like the way they seem to solve sufficient length of the rear exhaust pipe.

Have a search on this forum for treedragon's exhaust.  It does a big curve where the main stand used to be.

Note the carb treatment on the memphis shades bike

I'm so glad I started this tread, now all sorts of cool things pop ups. Thanks! Today I bring you a pair of glass blasted lower fork legs stripped of the fender mounts. This is a dual disk bike but I'm loosing one disk. The bike's gonna be so much light that I'm guessing one disk, though smaller than a single disk bike, will do the job. The mock up of my killer Acrapovic muffler is suggesting it might be to large.. and the its the question of positioning the seat. I've seen the exhaust under the engine and that's cool but I think my take is cooler :)

Quote from: per_w_aberg on December 02, 2013, 05:08:30 AM
This is a dual disk bike but I'm loosing one disk. The bike's gonna be so much light that I'm guessing one disk, though smaller than a single disk bike, will do the job.

If you find it's not quite enough, a multi piston caliper could be fitted.

Dual piston caliper is certainly an option, we'll see. My new motor stand turned out better than expected an would be a good advice to anyone planning to free the motor. My guess is there's no other motorcycle witch it could be any easier. I simply rolled my bike next to the engine an lifted it on the engine with minimal effort. The air filters has plenty of room even though i cut the rear tank mount and no rubber padding int the front mounts making it aprox 1.5" lower. I aiming for the lowest possible tank fit. The exhaust will fit between the cylinder and the frame, that's a nice bonus. Being around enduro bikes is inspiring when it comes to creative exhaust routing.

More mockup. There are some nice lines in tank/swingarm and ducktail/frame tubes that's going to be killer. The tank needs serious chopping, a 3/4 vision tank would be nice. I'm having the rear frame rebuild by a bike shop. It just so happens that Unique Custom Cycles, UCC, is close to where i live. Can the weld? Just look below!

Maybe I forgot to mention that this is going a street bike, with licence to make trouble.

About air filters, I read bad things about loosing the air box for small foam/K/N filters. It seems there's problem getting the bike to run right. I thought that was a problem with vacum/SU carbs. Has anyone had success with small air filters and proper jeting? 

All carbs will require jetting changes when changing to pod filters. Besides jet changes, vacuum (CV) carbs may also require special attention e.g. enlarging the slide hole and/or changing the spring.

From what I've read on this forum, many have found Vision carbs don't work well with pod filters. The design doesn't seem to cope well with signal loss during abrupt throttle changes. The stock air box flapper may help "soften" those changes - much like the secondary's air door on a "quadrajunk" automotive carb. With proper tuning and airbox flapper, the Vision carb works moderately well. Without the airbox and flapper, the accelerator pump alone can't supply sufficient fuel during signal loss. Just my 2 cents.

If someone reading this thread has found success with pod filters hopefully they will post their findings.  :)

Thanks, yes it sounds like challange allright. It might be fun to try some modifications. I got a spare carb to try on.

So what kind of carbs are these on the Memphis Shades racer?


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Keihin FCR carbs make some very nearly down draft units that could be adapted to the XZ.  They come as stock equipment on some hot street rockets and are available as aftermarket additions, if you have the money.

I've looked at Kehini and they certainly look good. The range is plentiful and availability is good  for parts,  used and new carbs. The jetting knowledge is at hand. What can go wrong? Anyone with a tip on carbs for from some bike to use?

Today's adventure was cleaning up the front wheel. The spare disk mounts made my eyes sore. No my hands are sore instead.

That is one method of staying warm while working on your XZ.  All that elbow grease will make you stronger too. ;)

That's true. My time is abundant, money are not and the lack of tools is going to give me elite fitness by spring.

The gas tank question. Replacing the tank.

I picked up a Yamaha Dragstar 650 gas tank that has the right shape and a tunnel wide enough to fit with some adjustment. I also tried a SX750 gas tank that's got a tunnel wide enough. The XS tank is rather popular on different builds. Now none of them fits the bill, The 650 one is to wide and the XS is funny looking to me. Gas tanks with wide enough tunnel for the XZ is rare so perhaps these findings is of use to somebody. I'm back to square one with chopping the original tank I think.

Not many people I recall have different tank shapes

Chimera made a tank out of fibreglass
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=8027.0 (http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=8027.0)

Dingleberry beat up on a GS550 tank
http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=14851.msg136225#msg136225 (http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=14851.msg136225#msg136225)

Jared on Kiwibiker used a tank off a different style GS but didn't say what
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/142215-Cafe-Racer-XZ550 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/142215-Cafe-Racer-XZ550)

Unless you want to  communicate  to the NZ boys who have adapted Weber to the vision, stay with the stock setup  Pods do not work , unless the are inside the stock air box, with a functioning flapper door ( preferably the vacuum operated one)   I have a VX 800 Suzuki , which has  34 mm  constant velocity carbs, the front one is a down draft type  and could be adapted to the XZ550. The rear is a side draught type and so you would need  two fronts. If you need a pic I can provide one.

Rick if, as you say, it might be possible to adapt two front VX800 carbs onto a V, how really feasible do you think it could be?  What size are those carbs?  I would think that a CV design would solve a lot of problems and really improve driveability.  Your additional thoughts please.

Good links on the gas tanks, thanks. The frame is back from UCC. These guys are the shit! Simple design and killer welds. The thought it funny that lots of Japanese bikes use 1 inch tube for the frame, as do this one. The continued with that size. Moving the front shock mount down will make the spring clear the seat/tank. I'm 6.3 feet tall so I guess I'll reach the ground :) Maybe I'll just have to give the bike to my wife.. 

Yep i tried the pod filter thing too and was very disappointed with performance, in fact was lucky it even fired up. Wanted to get rid of that bulky black box myself. I was thinking if i could construct a butterfly valve to go between pod and carb to replace the flapper. Or maybe like the R1's you could put a butterfly valve in the exhaust chamber.

Whats the deal with the flaps? Never heard of another bike that used them. Are they there to compensate for badly designed carbs?

Do a google - air box flappers are on many sportsbikes made in the last 30 years

The vision sounds brilliant with POD filters but making it work well would be more complex than just ripping the airbox out

Quote from: per_w_aberg on December 13, 2013, 02:42:35 PM
Whats the deal with the flaps? Never heard of another bike that used them. Are they there to compensate for badly designed carbs?

Sadly, yes.  :(  ;)

I wouldn't say that the carbs are badly designed.  Rather, just misapplied.

Perhaps. Maybe the carbs are better suited to applications where RPMs don't vary much - like a trash pump or lawn mower.  :)  :) LOL, just kidding. They're great, really. No they're not.  ???  :)

Damn! Been reading up on air boxes and they have come a long way. They are now tuned resonators with variable resonance frequency adding potentially 10-15% more power. The flaps are there to aid low rpm. Even the exhaust systems are now variable (Triumph 675) with a butterfly valve aiding to low rpm power. It's in the neighborhood of acoustic speakers. Running without a well designed air box might be just like running speaker drivers without the box! Since my project is primary a design project to keep me busy i discard the air box problem for now certain that it will at least look good, start, and work at full throttle :)

Excellent dialog.  Thank you all.

Rikugun, normally you are a little more reasoned in your discussions than this.
What exactly is it that makes these carbs badly designed opposed to set up poorly?

Please excuse my butting in.

Quote from: ProphetOfDoom on December 14, 2013, 07:10:33 PMWhat exactly is it that makes these carbs badly designed opposed to set up poorly?

If the carbs are difficult to clean, hard to keep clean and tuned, then they are either a misapplication or poorly designed for motorcycle use. Thousands of Visions coming to an early end due to carb problems testify to this.

BDC

Took time of the carb debate and chopped and beet the original tank. The design choices is  hard work. I feel it strongly when a bike looks proportional good but what exactly is it that's does it? If the balance of a bike is not OK it doesn't matter how well done the details are, on the contrary, the effort is wasted in my eyes.  I'm going to challenge myself on this question for a while and try not to get tangled up in construction details. This is how fare i got. One of my favorite trackers are this Mule one.

That's a good choice focusing on the aesthetics for now.  An important factor in any project is to create something pleasing to the builders eye. That is a sharp HD BTW.

POD - I think Bobby summed it up pretty well - the evidence is all over this forum going back to day one. Thanks BDC  :D

If you want specifics I feel these carbs have way too many passageways to accomplish what other carbs from this period can do far better with considerably simpler designs. A myriad of passages and cross drillings make the various circuits sluggish. Without an accel pump this bike would be un-ridable. Even then a factory bandaid fix of vacuum flapper and little filter thingy were required to elevate fueling to marginally acceptable. At their best, Vision carbs are far from "crisp" fueling devices. With neglect, this design is inherently prone to clogging. Cleaning (compared to other designs) can be a nightmare. Manufacturing costs I would imagine were considerably higher than traditional Japanese carbs of the day. Once the V was done Yamaha never brought the carbs back for further development on other models. Comparing them to Webers is an insult to Webers. Need I go on!?  :D  :D

Having said all that I accept the inherent flaws (carbs and otherwise) this model has. I'll always stick up for them when called upon but on this forum we all know the truth - they can be challenging. The struggle working through problems is a big part of their charm for me. Not only is successfully sorting the bike immensely satisfying, once sorted it is capable, versatile and fun to ride. It never fails to put a smile on my face and that's all that matters really.   :)

Thanks for the honest opinions on carbs. The day i get to them I think of going for CV carbs. Looks like a safe bet, simple construction and easy to set up, or? Since I'm building new exhaust It would seem a manifold for single/double side/top draft carbs is something that could just happen.

I brought it up particularly because many people seem to expect the carbs to be perfect after 30 years of neglect without bothering to even replace seals and o-rings, without bothering to use the factory required calibration equipment and then call crap when it doesn't work properly.

It's a serious question for me because I have Glyns old Weber IDF and manifold sitting on my bench.  So far I'm not impressed by the Webers build quality, but mine are made in Spain and apparently Italian ones are far better.  They were also just as gunked up with perished rubber as any Mikuni I've seen, though a bit easier to clean due to the simpler design.  They seem to have pretty much identical circuits, including an accelerator pump, though more simply laid out due to the larger size and a shared float bowl.

Glyn reported stumble free running, but at a lower performance level.  I want the bike to have higher performance than stock, not worse, so I have to decide whether to put time into the Weber to try and make them go better or put some time into Mikunis.  Either way will require a FULL rebuild.  If I go the Mikuni route I'd like to go with Pods as I love the sound. I understand how a flapper reduces induction noise, I don't understand why the Mikuni would need one to meter properly where a Weber can do without it.

I'm getting ahead of myself - I have a head to rebuild, and not even on the bike I want to be working on :-(.



I can't make sense of the often quoted reasoning that the flapper improves velocity at low RPM

Just remembered my old BMW boxer with CV carbs. These bikes are very sensitive to carb sync. I tried fiddling with it myself when the bike ran like crap but couldn't get it right. A pro with the right equipment got it running 100% better. I cant see why this isn't equally important on any multi carbed engine, like the Vision. Syncing carbs i feel is sometimes neglected and it takes some gear to do it right.

every one seems to think that some other carb will be better. They find a bike that has been siting for who knows how long and expect it to run fine  after dumping some carb cleaner in the tank . I've said this many times in the past , someone has gotten much of the good out of the bike , your going to have to put the good back! That includes the  a proper rebuild of the carb system.

10-4 Rick! I'm lagging for Christmas but on a trip out to my build shed today i spotted the paper that's been laying on the bench the last weeks. Spot on! Mary Christmas Y'all

We've got progress! The tank is ready; A giant leap for a man! This build has got me in contact with hidden resources in my small town. A seasoned tank builder with skills has hacked the Yamaha tank from previous post. Behold a custom built vision tank. Why bother you ask? Because I can! What else, yes my killer back light. It's got back/break/#plate light. I aimed for a accelerometer triggered break light that triggers by deceleration preferably even from releasing the throttle, no hand or feet needed. Though a sweet idea I would have to turn to the dark side of electronics. It's not expensive but a fair bite to chew design wise. Let me know when you've got your ready. I'm using proper 9-36V regulator for the leds. Tending the shaft drive rubber thing with pine based soft soap was a success but the recommended glycerol didn't ad anything. When will the fun ever stop?

That tank looks badass.
I use CRC 808 silicon spray on the newly cleaned rubber.  It works amazingly well.  Apparently soaking in ATF or even linseed oil is good for the same thing also.  Sometimes I use a little carb cleaner (briefly) first to scour the top dried out surface off the rubber.

What is your solution for holding the rear of the tank to the frame?  And where does the fuel petcock fit?

I look forward to seeing the completed bike and all it's custom features, like the tail / brake light / license light and plate holder.

Thanks POD. Your my mod god here so I'm glad to have you by my side. I like to throw in a warning on silicon. Parts contaminated with silicon are very hard to get cleaned an repainted. I've heard enough horror stories of paint jobs disasters for this reason. That's why I stay away from S anywhere when ever possible. For the tank back mount its just a pin through a hole in a welded on sturdy ear that i will enlarge to fit a rubber bushing. The pic might be confusing since  I moved the shock mount to below the frame bracket. There's thin padding on the frame to. I trust the guy, he's been building lots of tanks. 10 points for spotting the missing petcock, there is none. I'm going green on this one. Well the truth is I don't know where to put it yet in relationship to the carbs so we'll do that later. The tank is actually slightly to high in the front for the lines to flow but there's now only about 15mm space between the filler hole and the tunnel so the design is stretched to the limit.

Later

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/01/30/2aha8yje.jpg)
I finaly  got my workspace sorted :)

Good reminder on silicone and paint. I do try to be careful - I don't paint much but the same warning applies to powder.  No disasters so far.

BTW Did you realise that you can add up to 7 Images per post.  You don't need to chop them up and paste them together.

If not 2 petcocks then a crossover may be needed based on the tank shape? Tank looks good but I see a lot of splash back when refueling with so little clearance at the neck.

Per, your bike is starting to look pretty good!  Like your avatar, no?

There seems to be as many ways to mount a fiber glass seat as there are builders. I wrapped my mind around it and came up with this idea. The thing is I want a sealed compartment for electronics under the seat and have got some pans to be welded in. I think I got something. I taped plastic tubes cut in half on the sub frame, fitted the seat in position and filled the gap with fiber glass filler. It won't win any contests I guess but it will easy removable and stay in place. Inspired by this I also made a bracket and filled some mounting nuts in there. Now i don't have to drill holes in the seat :)

Fret nut: In a distant feature there i color. It's a bit blurry and I'm in the confusion phase right now. Maybe Big Bad Orange, the color of choice on many Detroit muscle cars? Maybe panted wheels risking a non race candy-pop look? The frame is going to be a dark grey, that's 80% certain. Mate paint is about 90% certain. The tank stripe on the avatar was a attempt to tweak the appearance since that rendition had a funny tank. Now I will go for pained tank sides flat track old school style.

What would you suggest to do a hard core slim down of the electricals? Think enduro bikes. Side stand, and neutral indicators can go. Was there some special around blinkers?  Do you really need any control lights. Here you don't need control lights if blinkers are visible (bar end), cool! M-unit, how much space does it save?

I've got an m-unit - it's a great pice of kit.  About the size of a deck of cards (much smaller than it looks in the pictures), and eliminates all relays incl flasher.  Add the M-button and you can use a single wire to bring signal back to the control box.  Either way, you would need to rewire your switch gear (not a huge job) or use the very nice motogadget buttons.  I ended up re-purposing some of mine - ie the press to pass also swaps high/low and turns lights on/off.

M-unit includes an alarm, and some cool pulse flashing and brake light strobing, self cancelling (but on time, not distance).  Add the m-lock and you don't even need a key switch, just a RFID tag sewn to your glove or helmet. 

I figured that the m-unit is different enough to make most of the stock loom redundant so it's all getting replaced with new wire and waterproof connectors.

I like having idiot lights, so I'm routing all those to a microprocessor and using 3 tri-colour LEDs, one to cycle through any idiot conditions, one for volts, and one for engine temp.  I've mounted these on the headlight.

The m-unit doesn't save any room as such, as it's just replacing tiny relays scattered around the bike and most of the fuses, but it sure makes everything nicer.  Everyone I've talked to with one of these rates it very highly.  This is no piece of chinese junk - it's as high a build quality as anything I've ever seen.

Thanks POD for the update on the m-unit. So you have a computer on your bike? That's awesome! What kind is it? This update is on the seat pan.  The pan is 4 mm alu and the padding is 2 layers of sleeping pad and the mounts came out perfect with relief on the fiber glass when tightening the screws  The whole seat weights in at 2.8 kg which i unracy but about the same as the stock seat. I'm doing the upholstery, it's going to be a thriller :-\

Nice looking seat pan

It's just a tiny little micro, not a full blown desktop PC or anything but I can plug it into my lappy if I need to capture from it.

Currently I have a Arduino compatible called a Ruggeduino http://ruggedcircuits.com/html/ruggeduino.html (http://ruggedcircuits.com/html/ruggeduino.html)  They are only $40 and handle the LED indicators no worries, and I have a whole bunch of logging and analysis I'd like to add at some point. 

My plan was to move to another compatible called Macchina http://rechargecar.com/macchina (http://rechargecar.com/macchina) which will add OBD2 interface and support more sensors / more memory, but that's on hold at the moment - they are a bit costly.

I've glansed at arduono. The possibilities seem endless. A led lightshow earring, cpu and batteries uncluded. My gosh. At adfruit.com the have got a accelerometer brake light projekt involving arduino and a accelerometer card. That's the one I have put on hold. Its comon to use acc-meters to messure acceleration, braking and g-force on cornering. That would give some logs to contemplate. What boot time is there om arduinos?

I'll write some comments on Arduinos in a separate thread so as not to threadjack this very interesting thread

That's thoughtful of you ROV and I salute you for it. I've been playing a bit of mad scientist myself on the rear light. I managed to get rid of the hot spots, that's the bright spots from the led itself shown on the opposite edge. I like an evenly lit edge. The design trend now is the opposite with led dots on every other vehicle. The edge lit acrylic sign scene though knows all about reducing hot spots and the do it by defusing by small holes through the acrylic or embedded particles. I opted for a couple of holes just in front of the leds to block/spread. Every hole and the whole surface save the edge is blocked with aluminium tape reflecting the last photon to the glass blasted edge. There are 4 wires for ground, break, rear and license plate. I use 2 leds for rear and 3 for brake. That don't seem much but my leds are "super bright" even @20mA and it hurts to look at even one of them. I put a ridiculous amount of work on this piece, I just had to get it out of my system and I'm pleased with the result, and wiser. How about vibration brake down and service you ask? Don't ask!

Wow, this is VERY cool.  Are you going to mount this dead flush with your new rear cowl?
I wanted to do something like this, but decided it was too hard.   I think a more detailed "how to" is in order.  How did you get the curve on the acrylic?  Have you thought of splitting it in two and integrating turn signals as well?

A combo with blinkers would be a hit but doesn't fit my config. Yeah it's going on flush and sticking out 2 mm with some water proof seal on top of it. It's not to hard making one. You heat the acrylic (aka plexi glass) in the kitchen oven at 140-170 degrees Celsius and give it 4 minutes per mm thickness. I used 160 C 39 minutes for my 10 mm and got it bendable with moderate force. You need a mold or the original part and clamp/weight it down till i cools down to ~60C. It's pretty alright to manhandle it hot without risking damaging it. The process can be repeated. Drill holes in one end for the leds that comes in 3 and 5 mm and glue them in. I used clear aquarium silicon thinking I could pull burned out leds and replace them but that seems not so doable now. I routed a recess in the edge to house the led pins and wire that I siliconed down. Every surface that's polished will reflect the light back in and you can "heat polish" edges that's been cut with a torch. A ruff edge will disperse the light and you can use sandpaper och blaster the opposite side from the leds. For better performance I covered all but the bright edge with alu tape and i guess i'll paint it. You could use white paint directly on the glass for the same reflecting purpose. I like en even red shine without hot spots, that's when you see red dots from the leds, apart from the car/mc industry with there cheap looking led stripes. On order to make that happen you need diffusion in the acrylic. There are acrylic with embedded particles but you can also go wild with a drill. I put 3 holes 4 mm in front of every led to disperse the light. You want to hide the led from being directly visible from the btight side. The light will bounce out at the ruff edge ok. Being anal I put alu tape in the hole to prevent light leakage.

You don't want to use a resistor as led protection, the voltage varies to much, 10-16V?  I used the proven LM317 (the smaller TO-92 package) as a constant current led driver with a 6-37 V input range. That's the way to go on low power applications like this. Heat is your enemy but by driving 2-4 leds @20mA per LM317 you don't have to be concerned with that and can put an LM317 and a 1/4 W resistor directly on the cable as shown. You want to drive as many leds in series as possible with the LM317 so that the leds "suck up" the voltage by dropping ~2V each but leaving at least 3V for the LM317 to work its magic, that's 4-5 leds. The less voltage left at the LM317 to sink the less heat. Mine hardly goes lukewarm. I use 1 LM317 each for rear/brake/#plate with 2/3/2 leds respectively. A single led will get a LM317 to hot without a heat sink. Google [led constant current lm317] for the circuit that requires one LM317 and a resistor. You need some hefty ultra power leds to keep it simple. I can't look even a single led in the eye that's how bright mine are. I enclose the data sheet.

The acrylic was 15$, the 7 leds 20$ and the electronics 2$.


You'll get a stealth look and using 3 mm acrylic could be rad. A thin sharp bright red line, whats not to like? 

There you have it. Any questions?

Per, you mentioned drilling some holes to control light dispersion, can you show a pic of that?

I like your project!

In principal like the pic. I'm not sure its the best way and only gave it one shot. You should probably do some testing. The holes should be polished inside or applied with some reflective surface to prevent light leakage. I think the pros are using many more much smaller holes in acrylic signs. You should maybe look into diffusing material to start with. Its a big thing in surface lit signs but that's a bit different in that they want the light emitted from the surface instead of the edge. Never quite relieved if you could trick it with a reflective surface steering the light evenly to the edge. Some of these materials are not suitable for heat forming it seems.

One of many:
http://www.tech-p.com/en/application/led.html

I've been staring at my two sets of carbs asking which one of them to rebuild and all they do is steer back. They are not the same, one of them has an extra adjusting screw and think it's superior. Any thoughts on this (from a technical stand) would be greatly appreciated.

I believe that is a set screw to hold the (primary?) venturi in place, not an adjustment screw. Both carbs should have two set screws each, one for the primary and one for the secondary venturi.

I've seen at least 2 different '82 carb sets - and there may be a third - with slight differences between them. For instance, very early sets had only one interconnecting brace. A later version has a casting that is threaded (blank on the previous version) to accommodate an additional brace. For whatever reason, the later set has the 2 screws positioned one over the other. The earlier set has the 2 screws located offset to each other. Unless my memory is wrong (which it often is) in which case disregard this post...   :)

You're right Rikugun, the screw was for the venturi ring. Couldn't get it loose though. Man, this hobby is really a lot about cleaning parts. I spent some time trying out detergents for carb cleaning. I ended up using non acid wheel cleaner an a ultrasonic cleaner after soaking and scrubbing in kerosene. The carb rebuild kit was questionable and had parts that measured different from the original parts so I ended up reusing some original parts. The frame is back from another round at my welder so now its game on.

Starting to put the pieces together and suffering from bad memory. Does anyone know what the tube with a washer is? I'm test fitting the electrical system. Hm, needs work. Planing for a smaller cooling fan to save space under the tank for maybe a li-io battery. A surprise was the lack of space for the cooling hose due to the moved shock mount. Tried routing the hose out the other side but no go. Now the upper shock mount will be extended 22mm by welding in a tube. That's crude but pays homage to café make-it-work construction I guess. Chassis geometry is not the main concern. This is a good watch on the real deal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmyR9_VeKQE

What are the dimensions on that piece? It looks like a spacer that fits inside a wheel hub between the bearings.

Similar to 92027 in this diagram:
http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Kawasaki/Motorcycle/1982/KZ550-H1+GPz/FRONT+WHEEL-HUB/parts.html (http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Kawasaki/Motorcycle/1982/KZ550-H1+GPz/FRONT+WHEEL-HUB/parts.html)

Yes you are right, thanks!

no problem  :)

Adding 22mm to the stock shock will clear the cooling house alright and raised the rear end about 30mm. That might be just what was needed to get it to sit right.

Shaping up nicely!  What color are you going to paint the wheels?

My other set of wheels are partly striped of paint an the look pretty damn good with the raw cast finish with the smootheed rim and spoke edges. considering the amount of work stripping the paint I need a really good reason to repaint them. If so it will be some bright color same as the seat/tank. I'm actually considering Big Bad Orange, the color POD tried on the valve covers. Photoshop will reveal some clues.

It would be something like this.

Orange is my favourite colour.
I think KTM orange is one of the nicest. Try RAL2009 Traffic Orange (CMYK 5 70 100 0)
I couldn't get powder for this here except by indent, but should be easier in Europe

Hi.

KTM and I go back a while so ktm-orange is  entirely possible, and then there's that bright neon Kawasaki green thats keep popping up every time I think in color.

I've postponed the exhaust build out of fear and lack of a welder.  Now I will brute force it and use the stock headers. I had rings made to fit 1 1/8" tubes but backed of. The fan is of some Ducati and saves 1/3 on both weight and power. We get around 25°C in the summer so theres also a plan to skip the fan and expansion bottle altogether and go with air in the radiator enduro style. I've seen enough boiling enduro bikes, the don't just blow up but put out steam in the escape pipe as a warning. I also fitted a rear tire @110/80 up front that should work an get me closer to fame. Light is no small matter and I'm fitting a cheap bates light as a starter. Had to lose the steering lock for a slim fit. Now I will practice some banjo before  heading out to the shed.

When will the fun ever stop?

We get similar Summer temperatures.  up to 32^oC on a very hot day.  My fan has only gone on a couple of times and both when moving really really slowly.  I don't think it's as important as people might think.  Also... check out this thread on waterless coolants http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=14719.msg135246#msg135246 (http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=14719.msg135246#msg135246)

If you don't like that headlight too much, what about the one on the Blitz XT500 tracker which I think really suits the style. 

Per, I think your headlight bracket looks nice but will eventually fail.  Aluminium doesn't make good springs usually, and the weight of the headlight will tend to flex the bracket unless it is stiff sufficiently to prevent this.  Maybe steel would be a better choice, or a different mounting system incorporating some rubber to absorb the shock.  Or I could be all wrong. 8)

The water less coolant thread was a good read. Motocross riders are in to this and I'll ask my motocross dealer his opinion. For water temp reading I plan to use those thermo sensitive stripes on the radiator and it should not ad even a gram to the weight :)  The Blitz bike use a projector light, the new black. The still cost alot but should be available on car scraps. The best implemetation is on the beautiful So-Cal tracker (https://www.google.se/search?q=so+cal+tracker&espv=2&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=flNCU7KDHI-Q4gSJ6YCQAw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1093&bih=523)

The light mount is a gamble for sure but use some high grade aluminum from a ATV skid plate shop so it should work for awhile although bending it like this probably weakens it . I keep reminding myself that this is version 0.1 and that it will be so much more inspiring to continue work once the bike is up and running, fingers crossed. Summer is coming along so I will have those feel-good moments wrenching outside on the porch.

The back light mount is on and only builds about 1 mm. Still no holes in the seat! My wife is doing jewelry craft so I used here silver to solder the nuts to the plate:) Seems I used 10 times more silver then needed so now I owe here she says.

Good luck must have hit me, or maybe I'm self convincing, the seat came out to my liking. Your supposed to not glue the cover to the foam for some reason but I found no other way with my limited skills.

It looks tidy.  Nice job.

The exhaust flange bolts are broken of so I'm substituting one of the heads for a spare that followed the bike. The broken bolts could probably be extracted by the popular method of welding on the end of the broken bolt and then welding on a nut (as seen on YouTube)  but that's a gamble so I'm doing it right. Finally I'm a real mechanic! Here's your chance to see the YICS from inside. It's a hole that's supposed to give pulses to the incoming air to give it a swivel. The smaller hole is from the intake manifold. There's mixed reviews on the actual usefulness her at ROV. I'm losing it on my bike for a cleaner look.

Exhaust valve seats look pitted. :police:
Maybe it is just the way the picture looks, so inspect it carefully.

Damn you, this is a design project! OK then, you're right, the seats were pitted but that's sorted now with some fine grit lapping. I think I needed the reminder. Now lets see what happened to valve clearance. Between the 3 heads floating around hopefully there's shims to cover me.

Per, I don't mean to cause you problems, but instead to help prevent problems.  Your bike looks good, so I hope it rides well too. 8)

That's me trying to make a joke, there might have been some vine involved to. I think you actually might have saved me!  :P. I value every comment. The bike gets shipped of to my welder for the exhaust to be built. Good enough is the goal, I'll save the show version of the exhaust for the future. It will be wrapped. I'm not sure how important a good collector is, can you mate one pipe in a T-joint or is a Y-joint important? Looking at the radical exhaust at http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=11572.0 makes you wonder, it looks rad.
The head came on nicely. My cheap torc wrench got calibrated diy style, it requires only simple math to calculate the weight and it read ok. If your in to fishing you could probably use your fish scale directly on a regular wrench in the same fashion. 
There seems to be a more clever way to build a light pipe rear light. The pictured led stripe is only 2 mm thick and is "side throw" and is stick-on. time to get creative.

This  Vision Tracker has come up for sale in New Zealand and I thought you would be interested in the way it has been styled. 

I love the rear set peg setup and the conversion of the drum brake to hydraulic. Up front the brakes look pretty standard. (550 engine in a 400 frame?) Nice job on the tank, clip-ons and detailing. The overflow looks like a bit of Kiwi ingenuity as well. The seller says it has only been to the track once. He's asking NZ$3500.  What a lovely head-turner

If I had money for toys, I would be sorely tempted!!

More Pics

I always thought you were supposed to hang the weights 1 foot from the centre.  Then 70 lbs weight = 70 ft lbs
No idea about calibrating in metric though. Do you need to do calculations?

Wow that's a sharp looking bike! Thanks for posting them pics. Nice lines and not a ton of structural mods it seems. Did he open up the heavy sheet reinforcement at the stearing head? That's one thing i concider , other jap bikes are not as heavily reinforced there. Regarding torq it takes half the weight for twice the length, say you aim for 10 ft/lbs you need 5 lb for a wrench 2 ft long. In metric the given length is I meter and the wrench is .4 m so I upped the weight by 2.5 so to speak. Oh and for torq in metric the weight I measured  in Newton, 1 kg= 9.8 N. I think they use metric in heaven.

High time for a update! The exhaust took forever but now its game. I used Hooker 1 1/2" bends, the perfect fit for the stock pipes. I now have the double wall pipes the first bit in front and the stock header in the back, though cut a bit. Maybe that will help speed up the exhaust velocity that seem to aid low rpm response?  Cudos to my welder that pulled it off. I wouldn't  mind a more elaborate pipe routing for a tighter look but this is what we got and I think it rocks. Is it strange to have exhaust gasses traveling the "wrong way" (forward) in a motorcycle?? You don't see it every day.  Oh, and there is a split under the engine so it can be detached with some work. I'll paint it with alu spray and use black wrap for that high performance look. The stripped wheels are on with new bearings and seals as are tapered steering bearings. Now I'm waiting for my m-Unit and a lightweight battery that will go under the tank, as will the rectifier. It looks as I'll be able to hide most of the electrics. I've put a hydraulic clutch on hold  though it seems quite doable now with the popular "pit bike hydraulic clutch". That could be a nice upgrade for anyone I guess? Bye for now.

Great looking exhaust - I'm going off my predator now.  I tried wrap on my Spec2s It didn't look as good in real life as it does in the pictures.  Black ceramic coating looks a lot better in my opinion, and not much dearer.

You won't regret the m-unit.  You had might as well get the instruction book and start re-wiring your switchgear now as the M-unit needs them all to switch to ground.  I decided it best to use the flash to pass for all headlight functions and re-purposed some of the other switches.  I got the M-button, so it's just a single digital signal back to the m-unit.  There's enough room in the left hand switch block to hide the button - see Post #228 on my thread HERE (http://ridersofvision.net/rovforum/index.php?topic=13508.msg137369#msg137369.).

Hydraulic clutch.  Hmmmmm

This is all looking very good, so far.  Are any heat shields planned for the exhaust?

Looks like he did a good job on the exhaust. I wasn't aware of those hydraulic to cable units for clutch - very interesting. Did the pipe routing make fitting that impossible? It looks like even the cable will be a tight fit?

There is definitely need for a heat shield and here's what I came up with. It's still going to be a bit of a struggle with the heat but I'll just have to judge this bike from different standards and I'll be fine. I feel good wrapping the exhaust discarding any finish on the pipes. Maybe lazyness is what causes the increasing popularity? The electro blur is starting to clear and I found a spot for the R/R and the battery. For your entertainment I'm throwing in a picture of tomatoes growing. Maybe the could be my build meter, when the are ready the bikes ready? Oh, and bytton wise I-m doing  "Configuration E" that only requires 2 push buttons and a momentary toggle switch, that's it I think. M-unit is a clever device!

- turn lights left - toggle left
- turn lights right - toggle right
- low beam / high beam - push button
- horn - push button
- start = toggle left + light simultaneously
- kill switch = toggle right + light simultaneously

There's a sweet little toggle switch with a two color led lit "toggle pin" that could eliminate high beam control light but I opted for rubber seals on the switch/buttons and the are so small I plan to wiggle them into the handlebars and up through holes but that could need rethinking.

Nice heat shield.  Matching bash plate perhaps?

A bash plate would be cool. Across the street there is a bash plate shop that makes them! I'll save it for dessert. The last 10% of a build takes 90 % of the time so they say. Just look at the clutch cable guides made black smith style from piano wire, that took the better part of a day. No complains though, this is the best time ever! The tank is sealed with por15 as recommended here and it seems OK. Tried "white" exhaust wrap an it came out so so. I fear that black wrap is marginally better. My wife and daughter didn't get it at all, they're so un-racy! Lets try aluminum spray and see how that looks. What about a graffiti frame! I like graffiti both esthetically and as a cultural expression but not necessarily on my frame. Now that you can't stop thinking of the "pit bike hydraulic clutch" what about a quick shifter? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_40UOe4x_mY

Oh, and don't forget to check Ichiban moto, café racer builder. A lot of bad ass stuff going on there. If you don't like it keep looking!

Loving this.
I think you need a fork brace.  I just happen to have a spare Tarozzi (NOS) - for a XS850 I think.  It rides too low to fit a Vision with a front mudguard, but for your bike with no guards would be fine.  It has the bits needed to attach gaiters as well.

Yours for the cost of postage.

If per_w doesn't take up your offer, give me a call Prophet.

Like the exhaust system, very fast looking!

What a grand offer POD! Thinking that there are contributions from the other side of the world certainly ads emotional value to the project, and to humanity!

Things are slowly coming together and there is light at the end of the tunnel. How about a Li-Ion battery? It's not obvious what size to use, this is the recommended for this bike at 14 Ah. Its ridiculously light at 900g to the stock 4900g. Thats 80% lighter! I'll believe it when I here it cranking. Try saving that weight by titanium screws and carbon fiber...  Putting holes in the battery holder is eye candy but you can't resist it.

For indicator lights I was tearing my hair till I saw the light. Didn't want led holder, that's not classy. What you see is a regular led thats been sanded flat. In case you wonder about the harmonious placed holes in the panel, off the center line, they are placed according to the golden ratio :) Why not?

The m-Unit is soooo sweet and the m-button (12mm in diameter to go into the handlebar) collects all the handlebar controls and send them trough a single wire to the m-unit on a can-bus, that's digital I think.

The trend on colors nowadays seem to be grey on grey on every other cafe build. That look sober and hip. On the other end there's wild graphics, thats risky. I got the whole house filled with design studies in hope of one day have an apiffany.

Just a small update showing some of all the small things that needs attending. There is a lot of them! Solenoid is taking up some of the last space left under the tank. The brake caliper is of a Yamaha MX bike. The scoop would be the crank vent catch tank. Why didn't' I think of that before? The bottom of the compartment will be sealed and a drain plug will be fitted.

So that catch tank - what have you done there?
Is it a separate tank or did you seal up that section of the frame?

I'm doing this for sure but need more details

Isn't the master cylinder a bit smallish for a Vision?  Nice job fitting the brake switch though.

QuoteIs it a separate tank or did you seal up that section of the frame?

That's part of the stock unorthodox Vision frame, an empty "box" just sits there.  And the near perfect sized holes for the hoses and filter are stock to. I think the engineers thought of this application back in the 80's  :)

QuoteIsn't the master cylinder a bit smallish for a Vision?  Nice job fitting the brake switch though.

Going from double to single disk would have made less leverage with the stock master cyl. I need one with smaller piston that looked cooler and this might work, the donor bike has only one caliper.
Here's a good read on Front Master Cylinder Ratio: http://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm

Per, thanks for the link to that article.  I guess the situation warrants more consideration than just putting on some odd parts and expecting them to work well.

Thanks for posting that article. When I did my caliper swap I did a similar ratio study albeit with smaller sampling. I don't have time this morning but will look at that more carefully later and compare to my notes. 

QuoteGoing from double to single disk would have made less leverage with the stock master cyl

I'm gonna have to think about that for a bit...seems counter intuitive? What do you mean by "leverage"? There is mechanical leverage provided by the pivot point relative to lever length/placement but otherwise it's PSI and area. Another consideration is volume of fluid moved which affects lever travel and when it feels like it's doing anything.

What caliper(s) are you planning on using and what is/are the piston diameter(s)?

I used the term leverage for "Front Master Cylinder Ratio". Rikugun, you say it so much better than I do. It is as you say, you've got an area ratio between the pistons and a ratio around the pivot point that makes up the total ratio. I would have halved the ratio going from double to single caliper making the leaver harder to pull, making the break "weaker" no?

I've read arguments in street racer forums of guys converting to radial master cylinders and they better get it right considering the cost involved. They got all the options to chose from but as it seems still have to make a qualified guess to get the right break feel. As the happy amateur I'm winging it and  have room for errors. Life long learning eh?

Radial master cylinders do the same work as axial but with reduced housing flex as the lever pivot position apparently offers less moment of inertia. Similarly, radial mounted calipers (amongst other perks) offer less flexing. Reducing flex in any brake component is a good thing. With the advent of these advances - and larger and more caliper pistons - master cylinder piston size has grown considerably from the days of either 1/2" or 5/8".

Yes there is a lot to this including the ratio of master piston size to caliper pistons size. Additionally, rotor diameter, bike weight, brake component quality, pad material and a host of other things plays a part. Desired use has as much to do with component choices as any other factor. Brakes that a haul a race bike down from 150 mph may not be good for a new rider faced with a panic stop at 40 mph on the street.

If I understand correctly, you are going from a dual disk front end to a single. So it will be one Vision single pot caliper and the smaller of the available Vision rotors mated to an 11 mm dirt bike master cylinder? If so, this combo might leave me dissatisfied with braking performance. But it's not my build.  :) I must consider ultimate performance may not be your goal but rather a blending of form and function to get to your desired end product.

Good point Rikugun.
It could be worth trying to get one of our US cousins to send you brake components off a US 82 (single disk brake) version. Rotor and fork lowers.  I think the caliper is the same (might have to check that) but the rotor is larger and the lugs further up the fork and blank on the right.  Otherwise you are reducing from what was already decried as inadequate braking.

This is exiting stuff. I might have to revert to double disks that I have laying around. For the time being I will work on a parameter not mentioned that involves a hand trainer :)

I think the main consideration is the arena of operation.  If you are going to ride this on the street you need the better braking, but if you are going to race on oval dirt tracks then there is much less demand for strong front braking.  Speedway bikes traditionally have NO brakes, and American style short track (flat track) bikes usually have no front brake but do have a rear brake.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/11/yqudaher.jpg)

See the difference? IT's ALIVE!  Running on rear cylinder only though but with promising sound. Why should it be easy? Funny how the whole deal changes as soon as a bike is fired up. Mechanical reality is certainly more demanding than dreamlike building. I will start by swapping the coils and scanning ROV for clues.

Top concern for me would be, oil pressure idiot light.

Looking very nice. Those are really high bars, are they a custom bend or an "off the shelf" part? 

Per, your bike is growing into an awesome looking thing.  We are enjoying your project from afar.

Absolutely agree. It's really looking good. I realize there's lots left to do but the bike is emerging from the dream.

Thanks guys! The handlebar, for Triumph, and the XR seat is from http://www.redmaxspeedshop.com/flattrack.html since the market for tracker style is dead in Sweden. Choosing bars is a gamble but I think were good. After checking the wiring and swapping coils I had it firing on all two with the choke. Some carb work and proper valve clearance is called for. Next up is strip down and paint.

Running only on the enrichner circuit usually indicates plugged pilot jets.

The bane of any bike not run for a period of time. Visions seem particularly vulnerable to the affliction.

Here's a video. http://youtu.be/Dzm4C3vi2Q8

If only it was that fast in real time! Cool engine stand you've got there.

When you're done will you do another short this time entitled "Tracker in Library"?  :)

QuoteWhen you're done will you do another short this time entitled "Tracker in Library"?

I'm not sure i follow. But I've done bikes in library like this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLoumdZz9nw
On another occasion we had 5 MX bikes on display in another library promoting a newly started dirt bike club.

The bicycle vid was what I was referring to. Yes, another "short" film in the library this time with the Vision Tracker.  ;)

I know the brake posts were about 10 posts back but I wanted to chip in on this. I just did what you did and put an 11mm axial master cylinder from a CRF450 because in my riding of the dozens of bikes that I end up test riding after I finish fixing them the vision has the worst brakes in terms of hydraulic advantage and feel or what I call the ability to modulate the stopping force. Not that it would not stop. I could lock the front brakes up with less than a 3/4"-1" of pull but I had to put a lot of strength into it to move it that 3/4-1"

First the Vision does have SS lines and the MC and the caliper have been rebuilt and bled. Now I had a very very firm handle. So much so that if I wanted to do a quick but not panic stop it took a lot of hand strength and it was tough to have a lot of fine control over the deceleration rate and the lever moved very little.

So the 11mm MC allowed me to trade some having to use some more stoke length for some fine control and the ability to just about lock the front wheel up with 2 fingers. Now the trade off is that I do have to pull it farther but I like that because that's whats giving the feel I like. Pull it in a little for a gentle stop or pull in a lot for a quicker stop or pull it in all the way for a panic stop. Its almost too far the other way from being wooden I think a 12mm MC would be perfect but the only bikes I have heard mention that use a 12mm are from moto guzzi and ducati so they want some good $$ for those parts and the rebuild kits are a pain in the dick to source. So instead I am now looking for an MC that has a total advantage of less than the CRFs but more than the Visions. The vision MC had a total advantage of about 27. Lever advantage times the hydraulic advantage. The CRF450 MC has a total advantage when installed of about 36.

If you want to figure out how an MC will feel here is how you can calculate that out. (distance from pivot point to first finger / distance from pivot point to plunger engagement) x (total area of slave cylinder(s) / Area of MC bore)

I love this and use to say that the meaning of life is talking about stuff. And just do things, that we can talk about. I actually got 10mm MC in my calculations. I'm not overly worried about the breaks  thinking it will be better than millions of bikes predating mine. 

QuoteI love this and use to say that the meaning of life is talking about stuff

Good point - maybe I was too quick in dismissing the smaller mc... :-[ BTW, why didn't you use the 10 mm master - both it and the 11 are in the 14-12:1 ratio range preferred in the Vintage Brake article.

Quotethe vision has the worst brakes in terms of hydraulic advantage and feel or what I call the ability to modulate the stopping force. Not that it would not stop. I could lock the front brakes up with less than a 3/4"-1" of pull but I had to put a lot of strength into it to move it that 3/4-1"

I agree with sunburned the V does not have the best feeling brake lever in the industry - or at least the single disc setup I have experience with. But does it have less hydraulic advantage or just require more effort at the lever? Doesn't a larger mc piston provide more advantage with a given caliper piston? Is the "wooden" lever the result of feeling higher psi but at the expense of feedback/feel?

Yes a larger mc moves more fluid but acted upon by the force of the hand lever creates more psi (force x area) as well. Higher psi times any given caliper piston area equals greater clamping force. Unfortunately, the same pressure realized at the caliper piston is also felt at the hand lever. I guess a longer lever would then be needed to bring the relative "feel" back to where it was comfortable/controllable etc. Since a longer lever isn't practical but smaller bore mc's are plentiful, the latter makes more sense.

I went back and looked at the article previously linked. http://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm (http://www.vintagebrake.com/mastercylinder.htm) and it seems to apply to single pot and opposing twin pot calipers. He advocates a range of 12-14:1 for the single and 27:1 for an opposing two piston setup.  I'm not sure how other configurations figure into his chart but the Vision's (single pot) single and dual caliper ratios are outside the preferred rage at 9 and 11.5 respectively.

nope, smaller piston gives more advantage....   think of it as a smaller countershaft sprocket...
If we had them :)

Not the analogy I would have used but I've certainly been looking at this all wrong.  :)

In addition to piston ratios, I'd guess lever configuration may have a lot to do with "feel". Aside from varying fulcrum placement and lever shapes, leverage changes (more so w/axial?) throughout lever travel. As the lever moves the vectors to resolve change between at the piston contact point.  As the lever moves in, the push becomes more direct and more of the effort is going in the right direction. Not terribly scientific sounding but regardless, outcome isn't so easily predicted with simple first-order lever calculations. At least not with my education....

One thing I did notice was a bio mechanical thing. With a stainless line and overly large mc piston, the lever had very little travel before becoming "wooden". With fingers at nearly full extension there was little "finger leverage" exacerbating the high lever effort requirement. Simply loosening the lever adjuster screw to create more free-play moved the lever in where my fingers were in a more advantageous  position once the pads meet the rotor. This seemed to improve effectiveness but may not do much to combat unwanted wheel lock-up as described in the article.

I understand it like that the ratio determines if you get hard (no flex) feel and weak breaks, requiring strong grip, on one end and on the  other end you get flexy feel but powerful breaks. Your choice. A setup that requires a hard grip would possibly make dosing harder with lockup as a risk, not what you might expect.
My stock piston area ratio ratio was 12.83 with 15mm mc and 2X38mm pots. One pot gets me down to about 10mm mc for the same ratio, witch is a starting point. Then it comes down to applied force and some metallurgic/chemical/thermodynamic/alchemical limits to how much stopping power i can actually get. I like to clarify a common misconception about steel braided break lines and there superiority. Its not the flexible braiding that makes them good (non flex) its the Teflon inner tube. If you put steel braiding on a rubber tube you would only gain looks.

How about some pics?

Changing valve chims without the special tool is not hard and leave the chain in place. If you're a total dumb ass, like me you release both cams at the same time even though one has the valves springs compressed, that's plain stupid.

Let me throw in a nice looking bike i spotted at Sweden's largest bike show, Custom Bike Show in Norrtälje. I just sat there anonymously. Turned out to be a high concept build by the guys that did my sub frame and is of a BMW's new NineT that made a stir in the Cafe community. They got the bike from BMW with the order to make something cool, as did well established builders around the world. Maybe they over did it but that's alright. I feel close to it because BMW's Swedish designer Ola Stengärd was a big part of the original design. Read all about it http://www.uccycles.com/2014/04/18/chop-that-ninet-21408858

I'm suppressing a will to write about whats about to happen to my bike in favor of showing actual progress.

QuoteMy stock piston area ratio ratio was 12.83 with 15mm mc and 2X38mm pots

That's not too bad. I think the USA 2 caliper Vision is 11.5.

QuoteIts not the flexible braiding that makes them good (non flex) its the Teflon inner tube

Yup

QuoteIf you're a total dumb ass, like me you release both cams at the same time even though one has the valves springs compressed, that's plain stupid.

Not necessarily stupid. With 4 cylinder shim under the bucket systems it's unavoidable. Since you are the valve cover did you check cylinder head bolt torque?

That's a good looking BMW. If it were built here I would have guessed Roland Sands.

That's a thorough chart. I'ts getting serious!

QuoteNot necessarily stupid. With 4 cylinder shim under the bucket systems it's unavoidable. Since you are the valve cover did you check cylinder head bolt torque?

I did not, is that recommended?

The valve clearance needed typically 0.05mm more play and is now sorted. I think the bad idle was due to the fact that I omitted one of the braces across the carbs and that messed up my carb sync.

I'm on to bodywork and paint of the tank/saddle and that is a time consuming process. I finally found a color I liked, on a Skoda! One phone call to the car dealer gave me the color code and 1 hour later the spray can shop had it in a can! Living in the most populated are of Sweden has it's advantages. You wouldn't believe the recipe for that paint, 6-7 different colors are in there, black, red, purple, silver.. ..

I felt increasingly bad mounting the ruff bolts and nuts so I had the zinc treated. Going half way I had a box done in black zinc and left the good bolts as the are. That's not really seriously executed but good enough for version 0.1 of the bike.

I got a good looking fork brace delivered from New Zeeland thanks to POD, literally the other side of the world. Cool deal!

Enjoy the art installation in my back yard, called "Sleeping Power".

Your bonus sports picture is another art installation with practical use as seen in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EjA0-3egX8

Per
Sweden, World Cup Soccer bronze medalist 1994

Give it up for Costa Rica in the soccer world cup, the country without an army and with the highest literacy in Latin America, officially going carbon neutral and with a population of only 4 million.

QuoteYour bonus sports picture is another art installation with practical use as seen in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EjA0-3egX8

That field could double as a teaching aid to visualize the fabric of space-time's distortion by objects...  :)

QuoteI think the bad idle was due to the fact that I omitted one of the braces across the carbs and that messed up my carb sync.

Could be. I think that's why the second brace was added on later carbs.

QuoteEnjoy the art installation in my back yard, called "Sleeping Power".

Mount some tempered glass as a top and have yourself a chic coffee table.


The parts are looking good and will really add to the finished project. Attention to little things like fasteners really makes a difference.

QuoteThat field could double as a teaching aid to visualize the fabric of space-time's distortion by objects...

Yeah, and that goal wood work would be a string.
Today's my big day! Started mounting and its a blast. In the end I got a tendency to faint slightly. That's when I realized i forgot to eat, ha ha. It's so sweet. Living in a crowded place i found a free zone where I could do stealth spray painting. It ought to be forbidden on account of pollution but there it goes. Black zink bolts are killer. The frame is semi gloss since i couldn't decide on gloss or matte. I did 5 passes with filler and 3 passes of spray filler on the tank before settling. Top finish is up next. Damn, it feels like I'm going for a Ride tomorrow :)

This is one aspect of the "human condition", that as you move closer to the horizon the horizon recedes.  Big projects like this one are in many ways much the same, however, at some point you WILL bring it to completion.

We are anxiously awaiting the visual results of your major effort.

When you're building a bike it's important to fika, that's swedish for coffee break, and a bulle isn't in the way.
Had a set backs with the paint. I used 1500 wet sanding on the metallic paint before clear got and ruined it. A new can of paint saved the day but the satin finish clear coat won't go on without looking patchy. For now I call it "Industrial look" and am focusing on the mechanical.
We have got some wiring going on and our "auto wall mart", Biltema, has got some nice connectors and wire protection. I don't mind some crude details on the bike like the wire strap thing on the head light wires for that function over form look. There's also a pic of the main switch conveniently reachable under the tank. How about my functional oil lamp? Ok ok, that needs some work :) I'll round of with something that actually looks like a bike.
Again it runs like crap! I'm leaning towards fuel pressure since I omitted the fuel pump which is not necessarily a good thing so I understand. Now there's work to be done sorting out the fuel system. I wouldn't be surprised if i have to change the jets a dozen of times, just have to figure out where to get the jets. For the silencer I made it really restricted as i did my old BMW with big rally car mufflers and CV carbs, bad combination. That one didn't run alright until I almost blocked the silencers with restrictors. I ended up running and sounder real sweet. Now there's  a couple of added parameters so we'll see. Seems like the promising ride is a bit of a way ahead.

Finally a pic of the sweet fork brace kindly given to me by forum member Prophet of Doom and sent the longest possible way on this planet, New Zeeland-Sweden. I assure you it makes the whole difference tightening up the front end, solid as a rock. Thanks again POD!

It is looking pretty good so far.  Are you going to use the original radiator, or something more compact?

That radiator i stock. The original cover had to go though. I have to get a ride in so I'm feeling it even though there'n just rudimentary electrical and jerky engine. I feel it :)
http://youtu.be/MzcrI77JjoU

Congratulations on your first ride! Good to see well done job.

It lives! That exhaust sounds pretty good too.

QuoteIt lives! That exhaust sounds pretty good too.

Its quiet, that suits my neighbors with all the sorting out. Just you wait till I uncork it!
Had some more riding in and got the feel for my fuel problems. Opening up the pilot screws made a big difference but its still jerky at a bit of throttle, runs on one cyl only at low rpm/throttle. At speed and open throttle its quite good so there is some fishy business with the low speed circuit in one of the carbs. Getting closer.

I'm exploring stickers..

Next up is a one way ticket to Poland and a week of unplanned travel. I've never been there so ad lib seems the way to go. Now that the bike's showing some cooperation I'll be able to enjoy the trip I hope.

Dzień dobry! Just back from Poland I was keen to start solving the carb problem. I had just lifted the air filters when the whole problem reviled itself. One air jet was missing! Guess you didn't see that coming :) I didn't even get oily fingers and rode around with a big smile. Now I got a serious bog problem which was expected so some new jets is up next. Idle's fine with the pilot screws 4 turns out, should be 1-2.5 turns and the 130 mains seems to work alright. All evidence points to upping the pilot jets.
The temp sticker is easy to read, I love it.

Looking good!  It is nice to follow progress, especially when it resolves some difficulty.

After having postponed the handlebar electrics it was finally time, just do it! Eventually I figured out the mood necessary for success; Bottle ship mood. The amount of patience and special tools constructed was beyond my expectations but I slowly got it done with the mantra "Take your time". What you se is actually just part of what went in the handlebar! There are also wires for the bar end flashers should I decide to use them. 

For those who haven't read it before the little button with all the wires are a CAN bus device collecting all the buttons and sending data by a single wire to the M-unit. We perviously discussed grounding by frame or separate wires. This is what you get with separate ground wires, my gosh! I actually think I can pull the bike apart without cutting any wires now thanks to connectors at the right spots, not an easy game.

The mess under the saddle is what you get. No plans to tidy it for now.

The sad part is I forgot to plug in the regulator when last riding. With lights and all that drained my fussy battery which I discovered the next day. Now, a Li-Ion battery are not suppose to like that were much and it might get ruined. At only 10.8 V we will se if my awaited special Li-Ion charger can fix it. It all looked so good on paper..

Update: Just hooked up a stone age lead battery and confirmed that my buttons work and the M-unit woks as advertised: Left indikator+high/low beam button= Engine start. That's so sweet.

Looks like very exacting work. I'm impressed with both your patience and craftsmanship - nice work.  :)

Hi.
Having waited for my LiFePO charger for to long I brute forced my old lead battery on to the bike and just started running it. Had some nice rides around here and made every run a test ride for changes. In the end I settled for 90 air jets and the pilot screw 1 turn out. For every step down in air jets I moved the working throttle rang (up to ~5% throttle) to where I now have e decent acceleration and can cruse at 110 km/h. It's a sweet ride! A bit beyond that it sort of don't want to go. Of course I can slowly twist the throttle to full open and let the acc pump and the mains do its thing and have a rocket launch, I just can't do the in between. I reality its fine.

So, I decided to act on the unsupported idea of charging the LiPo battery with a regular, dumb charger for a few minutes. That worked and I set of for a ride when the horn went on. Suspecting button short circuit I simply unplugged the horn. Little did I know it was the M-Units way of saying something is wrong with the charging. I now know that my regulator was putting out 18+ V and that set the LiPo battery in thermal runaway. I can assure you that was spectacular with smoke and smell. My new MOSFET regulator is broken I think. What is the hen and the egg I don't know. 

It runs hot so I'm mounting a fan of some Ducati, it's small enough to fit. I also made a new thinner rear led light, now only 5mm thick.

I will not have it ready for Mälaren Runt newt week. Thats a bike rally with like 15 000 bikes running around the lake Mälaren for a day. I think thats some kind of record. Byt I'll be on the back of my friends bike so thats all good.

I really want to close this thread of with som nice riding videos but here I am still :)

Sorry to hear about the battery meltdown. How did you come to learn the regulator was putting out 18V - is that the threshold for the m-Unit overvoltage protection? Where was the regulator mounted?

Regarding the new Ducati fan, prior to installing were you not using any fan?

Bugger !!! Lucky you didn't take out your expensive m-unit as well.

What r/r are you using? I have a FH00012A.   Perhaps I should have spent the extra $ and got a ultrabatt battery with built-in regulator.  My shorai is one of the sort that will burst into flame if overvolted

Loving the flat fan..

Thanks for your support in these hard times. After the smoke test I hooked up the lead battery and measured the charging voltage to +18V, which is the M-Units trigger point for warning. Nearly fried that battery to. The R/R is recommended for the Vision at  http://www.electrexworld.co.uk, and they say they're willing to take it back for scrutinizing and possible refund. They also provide this this disclaimer:

QuoteLiability
Electrex World Ltd accept no liability in relation to consequential damage, injury, death or loss of revenue arising from defective items.

Ops.

I figured the R/R would be safe above the ignition coils with the vent holes i drilled out but did no temp measurement. The battery is in a hot spot to so maybe some heat deflectors from the radiator and engine is called for besides the fan. Damn, this is getting complicated, you don't want to show wires. Its hard to find actual hard facts about these batteries upper heat limit but I found some that said the are safe for at least 150C but who knows? Recommended operating temperature is < 60C, hmm..

I had no fan and no expansion bottle for that total loss deal. There were some hot water waste but nothing serious, no boiling so that was probably quite good but now I'm taking the extra steps.

The Ultrabatt is actually available here, never heard of it but it seems to be a solid deal, and among the most expensive. Regarding internal regulator I don't see it but rather internel balancing circuits necessary for even voltage over each cell, otherwise a common problem. I think the many batteries got that now though but i could be what sets them off from the rest. Lithium batteries are still a sketchy business with all kind of random manufactures, different chemistry (LiFe is preferred), experiences and rumors. We seem to starting to agree that a to small battery, <8 cells will crank all right but the strain can fry the battery and in cooler weather it looses. Better to open up the wallet and not go to small. But the stock 14 Ah for the Visions 550 cc seems a bit big?

I'm looking at deal on Alien Motion battery. One guy on a forum had his Alien Motion battery fried and they said they were willing to take it in and rebuild it with what cells could be saved. That is saying something about at what scale some of these companies are operating I guess. A boutique built battery!

That's 8 months and ~500 hours in. I to need a charge of some sort right now :)

My guess is there probably isn't adequate air flow where the R/R is mounted. Especially in no or slow moving traffic where heat rising off the engine may be concentrated there.

Regarding undersized lithiums - I agree. Many cross reference charts seem to undersize them relying on their ability for massive amp draw. Unfortunately several extended cranking attempts on a cantankerous Vision will be more than it can bear. 

The standard 14AH battery sometimes seems undersized as well. I have no means to measure it, but it seems the starter on my inline four 550 asks much less of its 12AH battery than a Vision does of it's larger battery. The 4 cylinder spins briskly on the starter and is often running before a complete crankshaft revolution has occurred. By comparison - and even with a very healthy battery -  the Vision spins slow and several crank revolutions are required before it comes to life.

The more cylinders the easier they are to crank. Harley and big single owners know of which I speak. Of course everything is pretty much electric start today, but there has been technology that has helped overcome the fact, but it is still a fact.

I vaguely remember Yamaha having problems with their first big air cooled V-twins. It seems the starter clutch was slipping as I recall. Maybe they were using off the shelf parts underestimating the starter torque required for a couple of long throws...

I was under the impression that MOSFET regulators don't get more than lukewarm. Maybe someone care to comment on that? Never did investigate, I was just to busy ripping. Let me make all the misstakes so you don't have to :)

MOSFET RR units run warm but not hot if the system is functioning properly.  In a FAIL condition it is just an electrical thing and physics trumps theory and supposition.  If you run all the current the stator produces into anything but a healthy electrical system it is very likely to get very hot some place.

I'm sorry to hear of the difficulties you have been experiencing, but you have accomplished so much at this point, and inspired many of us.  We are cheering for you and hope you find a solution soon, and hope your bike runs well for a long time.

From what I read it appeared MOSFETs did not run hot. My experience has shown me this is true only under some conditions. Or at least when used on a Vision.

My experience has been that any R/R used on a Vision may get hot if inadequate air flow is present. I'll define hot as uncomfortable to leave your fingers on.  Lack of air flow AND  proximity to a heat source - i.e. Y pipe in the stock position - will exacerbate the problem.

As a R/R gets hot it's stated amp rating falls off. If it gets and stays hot enough long enough it will likely fail.

Just my 2 cents so YMMV.  :)

Good news we're up and running again. There was a good bit of cleaning the waist from the melted LiPo battery. Never figured out if that stuff is toxic or not, no alarming warnings wherever I locked. The bike started loosing power when the havoc occurred and I forced it to a sorry sigh.

Rolling back to lead battery, and a by warranty replacement R/R form England the bike ran like crap. I suspected fumes from the melting battery got sucked into the engine, the battery being placed just in front of the air filters. Who knows the chemical reaction of boiling LiPo battery exploding with gas in a combustion chamber, I don't. Either that or the CDI box got fried sucking 18V. As luck would have it a guy i know here used to own a Vision and the only part he had left is a spare CDI box! Turned out that wasn't it. True to my sloppiness I again found the problem when I lifted the air filters; I had stuffed paper in the carbs while cleaning and left one in! Sigh. After that the sun came out and I took it for a spin. All your good tips must take this in account :)

Searching for some monitoring I found a clever device cheep enough that combines voltage meter, temp sensor on a wire and a stop watch. Great now I can monitor the voltage, temperature of different parts and count the seconds till it brakes down again! I can report that the CMOS R/R gets about 7 degrees hotter than the surrounding air and the voltage at 14.7 max. You see the sensor in the hole behind the steering beam. The silly voltage warning lights on there would be useful if it were constructed right, now the warning goes of at 13V. Next up would be the clever voltage device that’s normally off found here: http://jhau.maliwi.de/mot/voltmeter.html

She still got some issues running on one cylinder occasionally till I up the revs. Hard to say if its fuel or spark at the moment. There's also a sudden cut of that’s solved by a power cycle that can be done rolling but leaves me with no light. Maybe my bike makes your bikes look great?

Your bonus pic is of Miss America X by Garwood with 4 liberty engines silencing the competition from England for a while. From what I gather these were just about the most powerful engines on the planet at the time costing millions! Lets do 4!

I've done that paper trick before.   It's very annoying, but easily done 8)

At EUR30, that unit is fairly expensive.  Check out http://www.sparkbright.co.uk/index.php for one that's cheaper, and by the looks a bit better it uses a tri-color led  His one is normally green, but he reprogrammed it for me at no charge to show green for 30 seconds, then off.  He can also reprogram voltage thresholds.  It fits into a bezel I bought on ebay, but you could place it as a fourth hole on your idiot light array.

Good luck diagnosing your other issues.  M-unit will shut off under a number of bad conditions listed in the manual.  Particularly check your current draw as it only handles 60W on the headlight  Don't know what you have in yours, but if you moved the bulb over, you may have a 65W/60W, or higher if the previous owner replaced it.

That voltage led meter sure looks ok. My m-unit v2 says its good for H4 55/60W and thats what i got. I will investigate this further though since the symptom fits the theory of the m-unit shutting down. Maybe an iPhone with FaceTime placed under the seat could give me monitoring of the m-units leds? That's the preferred method for controlling if your refrigerator lights actually goes of when shutting the door.

Reading up on LiPo batteries its clear most of them has no internal balancing and that some, not all, have a separate balancing plug that goes with an expensive clever charger with an extra balancing wire. Most has neither though and seems to work for most folks.  RC (radio controlled) enthusiasts are on the front line of LiPo batterie knowledge with there electric powered toys. I met a guy all in to that and he said he could build me a battery pack no problem, with balancing and all. There's apparently a good chance of spectacular disasters and they treat there pacs as if they were explosives. But I might just wait for the market to mature and run on lead the short while thats left of the summer.

Your bonus pic is of me and a friend picking up two rental bikes from a hole in the wall. I got a Honda Pan European. Always wondered  how a proper tourer ran like. Its unreal to push the speed on this one of these. So smooth and effortless. But also boring and dangerous. Its now clear that a cruser is my stressless and life preserving path in life.

Time to close the build thread with a spiffy presentation. I would like to thank everyone for sharing your thoughts and support here at ROV and especially POD for giving me the fork brace! You guys are crazy in a great way :) Winter is on the way here so the riding is of and the bike will stay put. Till we meet again.

http://youtu.be/L6rGrzmaxHY

Very well done!  Looks highly professional with wonderful details.  Minor problem.  It's entirely too clean.  Looking forward to a real world track test report.  Thank you for your time, trouble, and $ to do this project for all of us to enjoy.

An excellent build.  Well done.
Love the Cosworth sticker

Thanks for sharing the build. It was fun to follow along especially with such regular updates, lots of photos and a well executed result. I learned a thing or two along the way so that's always nice as well.  :)